Podcast Summary

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: Capitalism's Shrinking Popularity
Date: July 22, 2021
Host: Richard D. Wolff (Democracy at Work)

Episode Overview

In this episode, economist Richard D. Wolff explores the diminishing popularity of capitalism, supported by recent political events and polling data both in the U.S. and abroad. Wolff analyzes how socio-economic dissatisfaction is manifesting in electoral choices, housing policy experiments, shifting attitudes toward socialism, and debates on wealth inequality—culminating in a provocative discussion on whether billionaires should exist at all. The episode offers critical economic insights and systemic critiques, maintaining a tone that is both analytic and accessible.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fallout from the French Elections

• Summary:
  Wolff examines the French elections (June 27), highlighting the striking level of voter abstention and its implications for the United States.

• Details (00:10 - 05:46):

  • Both leading parties, the right-wing (Marine Le Pen) and centrist (Emmanuel Macron), suffered defeats.
  • Voter participation was historically low: only one in three eligible voters cast a ballot; abstention exceeded 65%, especially among youth.
  • Wolff refuses to attribute this to political apathy, instead seeing it as a protest against the inadequacy of mainstream politics to address "grave" economic and social issues.
  • Memorable Quote [03:50]:
    "Here was the outcome in terms of who, for every French eligible voter who cast a ballot, two eligible voters did not." – Richard D. Wolff

2. Seattle's Progressive Housing Policy

• Summary:
  Seattle is showcased as a U.S. city implementing progressive housing reforms, challenging norms in corporate-dominated local economies.

• Details (05:47 - 12:20):

  • Legislation bars evictions during the school year for those involved in education.
  • Landlords are required to renew expiring leases rather than oust tenants informally.
  • COVID-related rent debtors are protected from eviction even post-pandemic.
  • Council distinguishes between large corporate landlords and small-scale ("mom and pop") landlords, proposing targeted support/subsidies for small owners sourced from taxing large corporations.
  • Vienna's public-private housing model, with capped rents as a share of income, is mentioned as a successful alternative ("Rents cannot go above 20 and in some cases 25% of a person's income" [10:54]).
  • Recall efforts against progressive councilmember Kshama Sawant are discussed as backlash from big corporations.
  • Notable Quote [11:18]:
    "They're working to get rid of one of the most progressive leaders of that city council in Seattle, Kshama Sawant. There's a recall effort to deprive her of her seat on the council, precisely because she has been one of the leaders that have made these kinds of progressive laws effective." – Richard D. Wolff

3. The Consequences of Wealth and Income Inequality

• Summary:
  Wolff elucidates the economic dangers of extreme inequality, especially for a consumer-driven economy.

• Details (12:21 - 17:15):

  • U.S. economic health is heavily reliant (about 70%) on consumer spending.
  • When wealth is highly concentrated, the majority have insufficient means to drive demand, threatening jobs and growth.
  • The rich save most of their wealth or invest internationally, not contributing to domestic demand.
  • Government deficits often function as compensation for insufficient consumer spending (e.g., recent stimulus checks).
  • Quote [16:14]:
    "Capitalism is a system that has always generated growing inequality. The rich have the means to get richer, and the poor lack the means to escape from their poverty. That’s the truth of this system; always has been, except for those short moments when you get a reversal of the story." – Richard D. Wolff

4. Shrinking Support for Capitalism: New Polling Data

• Summary:
  In the second half, Wolff explores new U.S. polling data revealing falling support for capitalism and rising interest in socialism.

• Details (19:00 - 25:10):

  • Axios/Momentive poll (June 2021) of over 2,300 U.S. adults.
  • Among Republicans:
    • Positive view of capitalism fell from 81% (2019) to 66% (2021).
    • Majority (56%, up from 40%) now support government efforts to reduce wealth gaps.
  • Among 18-34 year-olds:
    • Positive view of capitalism dropped to 49%.
    • Majority now have a negative view.
  • Among Black Americans: 60% view socialism positively.
  • Among women: 45% positive on socialism.
  • Among Republicans: 33% view socialism positively, a striking rise.
  • Example of Buffalo mayoral election: socialist woman defeats a long-term incumbent, openly campaigning as a socialist.
  • Quote [22:50]:
    "A majority of Republicans support governmental intervention to reduce wealth inequality in the United States. Please keep that in mind every time you hear the leaders of the Republican Party act and speak as if nobody who's a Republican and probably not most Democrats would support such a thing. That would be a lie." – Richard D. Wolff

5. Changing Perceptions: From Demonization to Critical Mass

• Summary:
  Wolff contextualizes this shift in sentiment as a dramatic reversal after decades of anti-socialist propaganda.

• Details (25:11 - 29:00):

  • The Cold War and its aftermath deeply ingrained negative perceptions of socialism, but recent events are overturning these attitudes.
  • Shifts are driven more by disillusion with capitalism than by detailed knowledge of socialism.
  • Most Americans’ understanding of socialism is outdated; little exposure to global social experiments after WWII.
  • Suggests that envisioning socialism as democratic workplace control (workers as co-managers, not wage-laborers) could amplify its appeal.
  • Quote [27:20]:
    "Suppose it [socialism] were rethought to include a change in your daily work life...that you're part of the leadership, you're part of running this...If socialism meant that on top of what it already means, then the poll numbers I just went through with you would be modest compared to what we'd see then." – Richard D. Wolff

6. The Case Against Billionaires

• Summary:
  Wolff concludes by examining the normative and economic implications of billionaire wealth, catalyzed by a Washington Post column advocating a ban on billionaires.

• Details (29:03 - 34:15):

  • Reference: Christine Emba’s WaPo op-ed "Ban Billionaires," in a paper owned by billionaire Jeff Bezos.
  • Discusses “opportunity cost” of allowing individuals to accrue such vast wealth versus what society could otherwise do with it.
  • Illustration: $200 billion at 5% returns yields $200 million per week, or $1 billion each month, for Bezos.
  • Argues for redirecting such excess wealth toward public good.
  • Quote [32:26]:
    "$200 billion, roughly, is the personal wealth of Jeffrey Bezos, who owns the Washington Post...200 million a week. Every month, roughly, he gets another billion on top of his 200 billion...This is enormous wealth that could be doing fantastic improvements to our society, but we don't get them because we allow billionaires." – Richard D. Wolff

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Voter Disaffection in France (03:50):

  "For every French eligible voter who cast a ballot, two eligible voters did not."

• On Progressive Urban Policy (11:18):

  "There's a recall effort to deprive her [Kshama Sawant] of her seat on the council, precisely because she has been one of the leaders that have made these kinds of progressive laws effective."

• On Structural Inequality (16:14):

  "Capitalism is a system that has always generated growing inequality. The rich have the means to get richer, and the poor lack the means to escape from their poverty."

• On Republican Attitudes (22:50):

  "A majority of Republicans support governmental intervention to reduce wealth inequality in the United States..."

• On Expanding the Definition of Socialism (27:20):

  "Suppose it [socialism] were rethought to include a change in your daily work life...you're part of the leadership, you're part of running this..."

• On Billionaire Wealth (32:26):

  "Every month, roughly, he gets another billion on top of his 200 billion...This is enormous wealth that could be doing fantastic improvements to our society, but we don't get them because we allow billionaires."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10 – French elections analysis, disconnection with mainstream politics
• 05:47 – Seattle’s housing policy innovations and lessons from Vienna
• 12:21 – The impact of inequality on demand and economic health
• 19:00 – U.S. polling data: capitalism’s popularity declines
• 22:00 – Demographic breakdowns of pro-socialist sentiment
• 25:11 – Historical context: Cold War, anti-socialist propaganda
• 27:20 – Expanding socialism to workplace democracy
• 29:03 – “Ban Billionaires” debate and opportunity cost of extreme wealth

Conclusion

Richard D. Wolff’s episode is a critical and data-driven meditation on the weakening public support for capitalism and the slow but resolute rise of socialist sentiment in the U.S. and abroad. Through comparative politics, statistical polling, and incisive critiques of economic inequality, Wolff challenges listeners to rethink both the structural failings of capitalism and the practical possibilities of more equitable alternatives. His arguments are anchored by contemporary examples, memorable hypotheticals, and a call to reconsider the very legitimacy of billionaire wealth in a society plagued by unmet collective needs.