Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Comedy and Tragedy of Capitalism

Date: March 19, 2020

Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Lee Camp

Episode Overview

In this episode, Richard D. Wolff explores the structural weaknesses of capitalism as exposed by the coronavirus pandemic, the aftermath of the 2020 Democratic primaries, and the persistence of economic myths that shape American society and its politics. The second half features a candid interview with comedian Lee Camp, whose work satirizes both sides of the political establishment, exposes societal myths, and delivers biting criticism of capitalism with humor and insight.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Coronavirus Pandemic and Systemic Failures (00:10–13:55)

• US Healthcare System Shortcomings

  • Wolff opens by criticizing the shortcomings of a for-profit healthcare system during a public health crisis, highlighting the millions uninsured and underinsured.
  • "30 million Americans have no insurance, no medical insurance. They have a long history of not going to the doctor when they have something they think is a passing flu ... because they can't afford to pay the astronomic cost." [01:11–01:32]
  • The lack of paid sick leave forces sick workers to continue working, exacerbating contagion.

• Incentives Against Public Health

  • Quarantine laws exist but do not compensate lost income, incentivizing people to avoid testing or quarantine.
  • "If you're going to quarantine people who have the disease and you're not going to cover the cost of it, you're giving them an incentive not to be tested so they avoid the quarantine." [04:11–04:28]

• Market Distribution of Scarce Medical Resources

  • Market logic distributes masks and tests based on wealth, not need.
  • "It goes first to those with the most money." [06:49]

• Global Comparison: South Korea

  • South Korea's universal healthcare and free testing (including for immigrants) provide a stark contrast to the US response.

• Government Response Prioritization

  • Critique of the Trump administration prioritizing aid for corporations (e.g., airlines) over public health.

2. Political Landscape and the Democratic Primary (13:56–17:20)

• Bernie Sanders' Impact

  • Despite not clinching the nomination, Sanders succeeded in making socialism a viable and mainstream option, especially for young voters.
  • "Millions upon millions of Americans have voted for a socialist." [09:46]

• Quotable Moment from Venture Capitalist

  • Wolff cites Venki Ganessan, reflecting the anxiety among elites:
    "I'm trying to balance what socialism means versus four more years of Trump. And honestly, it feels like which is the worst of two evils." [11:11]

• Youth Support for Socialist Ideas

  • Sanders' popularity among young people signals a shifting attitude towards capitalism.

3. The Vanishing American Dream & Social Mobility (17:21–20:00)

• Decline in Social Mobility

  • US ranks 27th globally in social mobility; markable decline since 1850.
  • "60% of people born in the 1940s did better than their parents, compared to the 1980s, when the number had dropped to 40%." [12:59]
  • Current socioeconomic mobility is at its lowest ever, according to academic studies.

• Contradiction with "Great Economy" Rhetoric

  • Wolff uses these statistics to challenge claims by government officials about economic prosperity.

4. France's Pension Struggle and Democratic Erosion (20:01–22:17)

• French General Strike and Pension Reform
  • Recap of France’s mass protests against pension cuts; Macron’s use of constitutional powers to force reform without parliamentary debate.
  • "Shame on Mr. Macron and the type of undemocratic policymaking he exemplifies." [14:44]

Interview with Lee Camp: The Comedy and Tragedy of Capitalism (15:21–28:37)

1. Satirizing Both Parties—Not "Both Sides" but Structural Critique (15:24–17:24)

• Camp’s Approach to Political Comedy

  • "I go after them [both parties] from the left...the two sides are basically one party...except for the rich, of course." [15:56]
  • Wolff humorously observes: "It's very clever if you have a one party system to call it two parties...this way you're always in charge." [16:28]

• Memorable Analogy:

  • Camp compares the American election system to a plastic steering wheel for children:
    "The infant gets to sit there going, I'm steering. I'm steering the country. That's what we're doing." [17:17]

2. Cultural Betrayal, Propaganda, and American Myths (17:24–20:25)

• Anger at Manipulation

  • Camp’s comedy is fueled by outrage at the American mythology and the manipulation of the public.
  • "I've always had this anger at being lied to and anger at being manipulated." [18:37]

• Eight Myths Sustaining American Society

  • Discusses persistent myths such as meritocracy and functional democracy.
  • "The myth that if you just work hard enough, you will succeed ... but in fact, there's people working their butts off all across America that are not getting rich." [19:33]

• If more Americans understood these were myths:

  • "You would see riots in the street." [20:13]

3. Influences and the Role of Comedy in Revealing Truth (20:25–21:53)

• Inspirations

  • George Carlin was pivotal in inspiring Camp to tackle dark truths through comedy.
  • "It amazed me that you could say such dark truths ... and get away with it, really." [21:08]

• Humor’s Documentary Power

  • Mention of Joseph Heller’s "Catch 22" as another influence blending dark themes and satire.

4. Trump as Catalyst and Establishment Tactics (21:53–26:01)

• On Trump’s Role

  • Camp asserts the establishment dislikes Trump because he exposes the system’s true face.
  • "He's accidentally, through his idiocy and his ego, taking the curtain off..." [22:14]

• Democratic Strategy

  • Biden is presented as offering Trump’s policies “without the ugly veneer”: "If they wanted to represent some sort of difference... you can't put someone who agrees on...80% of core issues." [23:33]

• Potential for Party Fracture

  • Discussion on whether Sanders could replicate Trump’s disruption in the Democratic party.

5. Comedy Against Capitalism and Current Crisis (26:01–28:32)

• Camp’s Relentless Critique of Capitalism

  • "Capitalism is a system that is destroying our planet, destroying our lives. It can't go on like this much longer. We're in a death spiral." [27:08]

• Consequences of Speaking Out

  • He recounts suppression and attacks in the media as costs for his criticism but maintains his stance.

• Coronavirus Crisis as an Exposure

  • Crisis compels society to “suspend capitalism”—proof, for Camp, that normal capitalist functions are inimical to collective well-being during emergencies.
  • "In this emergency, for this little window, ignore capitalism." [28:12]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On the American Healthcare System:

  • “30 million Americans have no insurance, no medical insurance... And so we have a walking time bomb.” – Wolff [01:11–02:26]

• On the Pandemic Market Response:

  • “If you have a lot of money, you can go on to the Internet and go find these rare health items... It goes first to those with the most money.” – Wolff [06:49]

• On Political 'One Party' System:

  • “It's very clever if you have a one party system to call it two parties. That way when people get tired of you, they get the other part of you. And... this way you're always in charge.” – Wolff [16:28]

• On American Voting as Illusion:

  • “I compare the American electoral system to the little plastic steering wheel that parents get for their infants... The infant gets to sit there going, I'm steering. I'm steering the country.” – Camp [17:13]

• On the American Dream and Myths:

  • “The myth that if you just work hard enough, you will succeed... but in fact, there's people working their butts off all across America that are not getting rich.” – Camp [19:33]

• On George Carlin’s Influence:

  • “He definitely was pivotal in me transforming from a regular observational comedian to someone saying more significant stuff...” – Camp [21:01]

• On Trump’s Effect:

  • “He's accidentally, through his idiocy and his ego, taking the curtain off all of a sudden. You can see the racism, you can see the narcissism, you can see the way the system works.” – Camp [22:14]

• On Critiquing Capitalism:

  • “Capitalism is a system that is destroying our planet, destroying our lives. It can't go on like this much longer. We're in a death spiral.” – Camp [27:08]

Key Segment Timestamps

• Coronavirus, Capitalism, and Healthcare: 00:10–08:00
• US vs. South Korea Healthcare Response: 05:37–08:10
• Democratic Primary & Sanders' Impact: 08:10–13:00
• Social Mobility & American Dream: 13:00–15:10
• France Pension Strike: 15:10–16:14
• Interview with Lee Camp Begins: 15:21
• Satire and the Party System: 15:47–17:24
• American Myths and Cultural Manipulation: 17:24–20:25
• Comedy and Social Critique: 20:25–21:53
• Trump, Biden, and Establishment Politics: 21:53–26:01
• Capitalism and the Pandemic: 26:01–28:32

Tone and Language

• Wolff’s style: Analytical, wry, pointedly critical of capitalism with a conversational and sometimes sardonic tone.
• Camp’s style: Sharp, humorous, direct, and unapologetically left-wing, blending wit with deep-seated indignation about inequality and propaganda.

Summary Takeaways

This episode demonstrates the tragic and, at times, darkly comic contradictions of capitalism—especially during crises. Wolff’s economic analysis dovetails with Camp’s comedic critique, revealing how deeply entrenched myths and systemic failures undermine democracy, health, and social mobility. The episode offers both sobering statistics and the cathartic relief of incisive satire, serving as a timely reminder of the need to envision and articulate alternatives to the status quo.