Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Capitalism's Shadow: Poverty
Date: July 1, 2017
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Rob Robinson, National Economic and Social Rights Initiative (NESRI)

Overview

This episode of Economic Update dives into the persistent and systemic nature of poverty in capitalist societies, focusing on both everyday economic news and an in-depth interview with housing activist Rob Robinson. Professor Wolff explores how poverty is not an accidental byproduct but an inevitable outcome of the way capitalism is structured. The discussion traverses recent news on automation and layoffs, abuses in the restaurant industry, the recurring failure to address poverty politically, and highlights community-driven strategies both in the US and globally. The segment with Robinson examines why poverty persists, the racial and geographic shifts in who is affected, and the possibilities for systemic change.

Key Discussion Points

1. European Conference on Sanctuary Cities

[02:56 - 12:42]

• Richard Wolff recounts his attendance at a Frankfurt conference on "Sanctuary Cities", drawing parallels with America's history as an immigrant nation.
• The term “sanctuary” often refers to cities welcoming immigrants, largely driven by economic and political unrest elsewhere.
• European working-class movements now actively support immigrants, not only out of charity but out of shared economic interests and common struggles.
• Quote:

  "What the immigrant wants is a secure job, a secure income, safety. And that's what we all want. ... That's the basis for us to have an alliance with them." — Richard Wolff [09:45]

2. McDonald's Automation and the Fight for $15

[12:44 - 17:03]

• McDonald’s is replacing 2,500 cashiers with kiosks despite record profits—a reaction, Wolff argues, to the Fight for $15 movement.
• Automation is being used as a threat against wage increases: "Low wages or no wages."
• Wolff proposes an alternative—reduce overall employee hours while maintaining salaries so technological gains benefit all, not just shareholders.
• Quote:

  "This threat, low wages or no wages, is part of how capitalism has always worked." — Richard Wolff [15:39]

3. Uber, Toxic Corporate Culture, and Capitalism’s ‘Winners’

[17:05 - 21:25]

• Discusses ousting of Uber CEO Travis Kalanick after well-publicized harassment scandals.
• The corporate structure, Wolff argues, rewards and fosters “autocratic” leadership and a culture of “suck up and kick down."
• Quote:

  "Capitalism, the corporation as the unit of capitalism, is a very, very friendly institution for these sorts of people ... That's the issue. ... It's about a system that rewards such people, that promotes such people, that indeed venerates such people." — Richard Wolff [19:34]

4. Willows Inn: Fine Dining and Worker Exploitation

[21:26 - 27:54]

• Explains Department of Labor’s finding that famed Willows Inn underpaid (and overworked) staff, exemplifying systemic exploitation.
• The lifestyle of the rich, Wolff says, is "based on and depends on ripping off average people on a massive scale.”
• Quote:

  "Capitalism is extraordinarily effective at producing and reproducing wealth. Unfortunately, it is a system that is at least as efficient as that in producing and reproducing poverty and abuse and mistreatment of human beings." — Richard Wolff [26:50]

5. Systemic Roots of Poverty

[27:54 - 30:55]

• Wolff presents poverty as a perpetual byproduct of capitalism; even protective laws are regularly circumvented.
• Real change requires addressing root systemic causes rather than just symptoms.

Interview: Rob Robinson on Poverty in America

[30:40 - 56:46]

Poverty’s Persistent Presence and Political Neglect

[32:00 - 34:59]

• Robinson: Poverty predates recent recessions—“a problem that has been here long before that... since its creation."
• Government initiatives (like the ‘War on Poverty’) are more about appearances than solutions: “They don't come up with real solutions.”
• Quote:

  "It is the government trying to pat itself on the back saying we're addressing this problem, but they don't come up with real solutions." — Rob Robinson [33:47]

Deindustrialization, Outsourcing, and Rising Poverty

[33:46 - 35:54]

• Disappearance of manufacturing jobs and wage suppression by offshoring—fundamentally structural, not individual, issues.
• Real solution requires redistribution of wealth: "You're going to have to tax the rich at a higher rate and give it to the poor." [35:54]

Shifting Racial and Geographic Map of Poverty

[36:57 - 39:08]

• Poverty and issues like the opioid crisis are now highly visible in white suburban/rural communities, not just urban and non-white.
• "It has changed...It has now moved to suburban areas and rural areas." — Rob Robinson [38:30]

Divisions, Politics, and Missed Unity

[39:15 - 40:51]

• Poor whites often do not align with people of color, perpetuating divisions that elite interests exploit.
• Trump’s election partly reflects this misunderstanding and hope for change among poor whites.

Organizing and Building Movements

[40:54 - 43:48]

• National moral movements (e.g., Poor People’s Campaign, led by Rev. Barber) are rising but face generational gaps and broader disengagement.
• Efforts to build cross-racial, cross-class alliances are crucial but remain limited.

Lessons from Abroad

[35:54 - 44:46]

• Draws inspiration from global movements (Spain’s PAH, Brazil’s MST, UK Labour) that have achieved political traction and prioritized the poor.

Systemic Alternatives: Worker Cooperatives and Land Trusts

[45:28 - 53:19]

• Wolff suggests an alternative: democratize the workplace, organize production and distribution to eliminate extreme inequality at its root.
• Robinson points to cooperative models: Cooperation Jackson (Mississippi), food/farm co-ops, and land/community land trusts as real, emerging alternatives.
• Quote:

  "Put land in a community land trust, let the community govern the land changes your life totally, man. Right. Housing will remain truly affordable if it's sitting on a land trust." — Rob Robinson [48:29]

• Medieval and religious traditions once held land should serve the social good, not be commodified; even in current law (eminent domain), this principle is latent.

Political Stagnation and the Need for New Vision

[44:46 - 56:46]

• US two-party system and limited imagination keep transformative political alternatives at bay.
• Robinson calls for learning from international movements and for concrete, visionary steps toward a new system:

  "We have to have a vision of a system that we want and we need to know the steps on how to get there." — Rob Robinson [56:39]

Revolution and System Change

[55:45 - 56:39]

• Robinson is blunt: Only a fundamental change, potentially a revolution, can fix the structural roots of poverty.
• The 2008 crisis revealed the government’s priorities, bailing out banks and leaving people to fend for themselves; we need not just marginal reform but a new model altogether.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On automation:

  "Basically, what McDonald's is saying to them is what the business community has always said to people looking to raise their [wages], namely, you shall be happy with low wages, because if you protest, you'll get no wages at all." — Richard Wolff [15:12]

• On US greed and exploitation:

  "Can you enjoy the wonderful meal at Willow's Inn? I'm sure you can. But that enjoyment has to be tempered by an awareness that in the kitchen and in the back and painting the building, you enjoyed looking at is a level of abuse of human beings." — Richard Wolff [25:54]

• On required change:

  "It's about wages, work, a steady income, a decent place to live. It's all of these things combined and having a secure future." — Rob Robinson [34:29]

• On US exceptionalism:

  "We have a habit here in the U.S., Rick, of saying ... I don't have to learn from PA and Spain. I don't have to learn from Brazil. We do it better. Well, you know what? ... You should learn till you go to your grave." — Rob Robinson [53:39]

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|------------------------------------------------| | 02:56 | Sanctuary Cities in Europe and Immigration | | 12:44 | McDonald's Automation and Its Social Costs | | 17:05 | Uber’s CEO Ousted; Toxic Corporate Culture | | 21:26 | Willows Inn: Luxury Built on Labor Abuse | | 27:54 | Poverty as a Systemic Product of Capitalism | | 30:40 | Rob Robinson Interview: Poverty in the US | | 33:46 | “War on Poverty” Failures; Need for Redistribution | | 36:57 | Poverty’s Racial/Suburban Shifts | | 45:28 | Worker Co-ops, Decommodifying Land & Housing | | 55:45 | Necessity of Systemic Overhaul ("Revolution") |

Tone

Richard Wolff maintains his characteristic incisive, critical, and explanatory style—direct, analytical, and tinged with urgency. Rob Robinson brings a grounded, activist perspective with candid reflections on the limits of American politics and hope for transformative change.

Conclusion

The episode presents a sharp critique of the ways in which capitalism creates, maintains, and deepens poverty, despite the veneer of opportunity or periodic gestures at reform. Both host and guest argue that genuine solutions require collective action, systemic rethink, and learning from global movements—from cooperatives to new political formations. The program closes with the call for listeners to inform themselves, organize, and imagine a more just economic future.