Podcast Summary: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff - "Economics and Red States: Arlie Hochschild" (September 30, 2016)

Episode Overview

This episode of Economic Update features host Richard D. Wolff and special guest sociologist Arlie Russell Hochschild. Wolff begins with economic news updates and transitions to an in-depth interview with Hochschild about her acclaimed book, Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right. The episode centers on understanding the emotional and cultural roots of right-wing sentiment in America, particularly in southern "red states" like Louisiana, and explores possibilities for bridge-building across the political divide.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Economic News and Announcements (00:00–29:58)

• Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Leadership (03:00–07:00):

  • Wolff discusses Corbyn’s secure and growing hold on the UK Labour Party, highlighting a global shift away from establishment politics:
    • "The old establishment ... is in deep trouble, losing supporters at an accelerating rate with people looking for alternatives." [06:45]

• Uber and Lyft Unionization (07:00–13:00):

  • 14,000 NYC Uber and Lyft drivers seek union representation, mirroring historic labor movements in the taxi industry.
  • Wolff frames the "gig economy" as a retread of old capitalist strategies to avoid labor protections:
    • "This old capitalist story is being rerun in what claims to be a new industry..." [12:59]

• Kentucky’s State Pension Lawsuit (13:00–17:00):

  • Kentucky’s public pension system faces underfunding and a landmark court ruling allows retirees to sue for mismanagement.
  • Wolff warns of a broader crisis in public pensions:
    • "It is already a crisis in Puerto Rico. It's a crisis in Illinois. It is a serious problem..." [16:59]

• Health Insurance Costs & ACA (17:00–26:00):

  • Despite the Affordable Care Act, 10% of Americans remain uninsured; costs have doubled for employer-based coverage since 2004.
  • The cost of ACA plans is rising faster than wages:
    • "If your wages go up by 2.5% and the cost of medical care ... goes up by 9% ... the sense so many Americans have that they keep falling behind ... is a correct understanding of the economic realities." [25:27]

• Wealth Inequality and 2016 Election Debate (27:00–28:55):

  • Wolff points out neither Clinton nor Trump addressed global inequality:
    • "The 62 richest people in the world together have more wealth than the bottom half of the population ... neither candidate spoke about it." [27:49]

2. Interview with Arlie Russell Hochschild (29:58–57:20)

Introduction (29:58–31:30)

• Wolff introduces Hochschild’s credentials and her new book, noting its relevance to the 2016 political climate.

Research Motivations and Method (31:31–34:40)

• Hochschild describes her quest to understand the rise of the American right, especially among southern whites:
  • "I live in Berkeley, CA ... My friends, my husband ... agree with me ... and then I turn on the radio ... and I felt disconnected. I didn't get it." [31:39]
• She embedded herself in "the super South," particularly Louisiana, to explore the "red state paradox:"
  • "The poorest states...that also receive more federal dollars in aid than they give in taxes, so resistant and hostile to the federal government ... I didn't get that." [33:18]

Case Studies and Personal Stories (34:41–40:21)

• Story of Lee Sherman, a former factory worker involved in toxic waste dumping, who went on to join the Tea Party despite being harmed by deregulation:

  • "I'm scratching my head. I don't get it. ... I'm seeing many people cannot breathe clean air, cannot drink clean water, but they're against regulators and government." [37:32]

• Hochschild’s method revolves around taking down her "political alarm system," approaching with empathy.

Analysis: Why Distrust Government? (40:22–45:04)

• Hochschild identifies three barriers to trust in the state among her interviewees:
  1. Perception of Government as “the North”: Seen as outside, judging, and culturally alien.
  2. Captured State: The state serves corporate interests, especially oil and petrochemicals; government is essentially "do-nothing" and has been "bought off."
  3. Intersection with Personal Economic Strategies: As family finances strain, there’s anger at taxes funding ineffective governance.
  • "People feel ... grateful to the company. ... Meanwhile, the state’s job is to regulate these industries ... but [it’s] not doing its job at all." [42:57]

The "Deep Story" (45:05–51:04)

• The "deep story" for the right: hardworking whites feel stuck waiting for the American Dream, while others (blacks, women, immigrants, even animals) are seen as “cutting the line” with government help.
  • "The deep story is a story that feels true ... you're waiting in line for the American Dream ... and then you see someone cutting ahead ..." [45:44]
• Barack Obama symbolizes favoritism toward those “line cutters,” deepening the sense of alienation and resentment.

Trump as “Rescuer” (51:05–52:35)

• Trump is perceived as someone who doesn’t shame white blue-collar workers and “tells it like it is” against their perceived competitors.
  • "He’s saving them from shame. ... Paradoxically, he who shames everyone is sort of carved out a little area of non-shame." [51:38]

Building Bridges & Empathy (52:36–57:20)

• Wolff asks how critics of capitalism can build bridges to those Hochschild studied.
• Hochschild stresses the need for genuine interpersonal understanding and empathy:
  • "You have to come with an openness. Take your own alarm system off ..." [53:58]
  • "It's changed me because I see more possibility for crossover." [54:30]
• She and Wolff find hope in shared concerns (campaign finance, environment):
  • "One guy I spoke to said: 'Let’s get money out of politics.' He is Tea Party ... He wants to get money out of politics. Okay, campaign finance reform, we've got that one." [54:44]
• Hochschild’s prescription: face-to-face engagement, shared activities, and mutual listening as the basis for a "new national conversation":
  • "We're stuck in media enclaves and technological enclaves and geographic enclaves ... and I think something good could happen." [56:04]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Richard D. Wolff on the Gig Economy:
  “This old capitalist story is being rerun in what claims to be a new industry, a gig economy, and all the other fancy phrases.” [12:59]

• Arlie Hochschild on Method:
  “First, take my own political alarm system off … so that the purpose of talking is learning, is getting curious. And for climbing what I came to call an empathy wall to the other side so I could understand ...” [33:42]

• On the Red State Paradox:
  “Why throughout the country are the poorest states ... so resistant and hostile to the federal government? I didn’t get that.” [33:18]

• On the Deep Story:
  "The deep story is a story that feels true. ... you're waiting in line for the American Dream ... and then you see someone cutting ahead..." [45:44]

• On Trump’s Appeal:
  "He is providing a shame-free avenue for whites should they need [government programs]. ... He's saving them from shame." [51:38]

• On Cross-Political Bridges:
  "It's changed me because I see more possibility for crossover." [54:30]

• Richard Wolff’s Closing Thought:
  "The opportunities to build something in the United States across these stylized red, blue differentiations is enormous. And we're barely at the beginning." [56:13]

Important Timestamps

• 03:00–07:00 — Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party
• 07:00–13:00 — Uber/Lyft drivers unionize, history lessons on labor
• 13:00–17:00 — Kentucky pension fund lawsuit and implications
• 17:00–26:00 — Health insurance trends, ACA, and rising costs
• 27:00–28:55 — Stark wealth inequality and lack of debate focus
• 29:58–31:30 — Introduction of Arlie Hochschild
• 31:31–34:40 — Research motivations; moving beyond "blue enclaves"
• 34:41–40:21 — The case of Lee Sherman and conflicted Tea Party environmentalists
• 40:22–45:04 — Dissecting distrust of government; the “captured state”
• 45:05–51:04 — The "deep story" and the emotional logic of the right
• 51:05–52:35 — Trump, shame, and symbolic rescue
• 52:36–57:20 — Building dialogue and empathy; closing reflections

Episode Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, Richard Wolff maintains his critical, explanatory style, making complex economic subjects approachable, while Arlie Hochschild brings warmth, empathy, and narrative skill to her sociological storytelling.

For Listeners:
This conversation is a must-listen for anyone trying to understand the emotional roots of America’s divisions, and for those interested in creating constructive dialogue beyond traditional political fault lines. Hochschild’s fieldwork and insights, coupled with Wolff’s economic analysis, illuminate the human stories beneath the headlines.