Economic Update: Economics of Conflicted Mothers

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode Date: February 14, 2019
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Juliana Forlano

Overview

This episode explores the economic realities and systemic issues facing working mothers in the United States. Host Richard D. Wolff discusses recent labor struggles and political developments before turning to an in-depth conversation with Juliana Forlano about the “conflicted mother” – the challenges mothers face balancing job expectations, family responsibilities, and inadequacies in the American economic system. The episode highlights interconnected problems of labor, public support, workplace structure, economic insecurity, and emotional toll—inviting broader reflection on how the economy could more effectively serve working families.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from the Government Shutdown (00:10-08:21)

• Wolff highlights the recent U.S. government shutdown’s economic impact:

  • Illustrates the stark disconnect between elites and ordinary Americans.
  • Example: Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase pledges $1 million to 800,000 unpaid federal workers; Wolff calculates this provides just $1.25 per worker.
  • Quote:
    • “It wouldn’t have helped them buy a cup of coffee.” — Richard Wolff (01:26)

• Missed opportunities for labor mobilization:

  • Sarah Nelson (Association of Flight Attendants president) called for a general strike in solidarity with furloughed workers (AFL-CIO event, Jan 20).
  • Quote:
    • “We should ask the working people of America to go out in solidarity with the 800,000 members of our fellow working class...” — Paraphrasing Sarah Nelson (04:00)

• Public sympathy and loss of momentum:

  • Significant support for workers, e.g., Lady Gaga acknowledging them at her concert.
  • Wolff laments a missed chance for U.S. labor to lead a broad-based protest like France's “yellow vests.”
  • Quote:
    • “We missed a chance to mobilize an enormous public outcry... It was a moment missed.” — Richard Wolff (05:44)

2. Teacher Strikes and Broader Labor Lessons (08:22-12:23)

• Teacher strikes ripple across the U.S.:

  • Inspired by actions in West Virginia, LA, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Denver.
  • Teachers demand an end to austerity, higher pay, and recognition of their vital role.

• Employers’ tactics divide workers:

  • In Denver, threats to report immigrant teachers to authorities designed to intimidate and split the workforce.
  • Wolff emphasizes importance of solidarity between native-born and immigrant teachers.

• Economic context & system critique:

  • Wolff points out scapegoating of immigrants is a diversion from deep problems in declining American capitalism.
  • Quote:
    • “Threatening an immigrant in this case is threatening a teacher who has given himself or herself to the enormously important task of educating the next generation of our fellow citizens.” — Richard Wolff (12:01)

3. Systemic Problems in Banking (12:23-13:44)

• Calls for accountability in banking:
  • Elizabeth Warren criticizes Wells Fargo CEO Tim Sloan for endemic misconduct but Wolff argues that individual replacements won’t fix systemic corruption.
  • Quote:
    • “If you got rid of Mr. Sloan, but left in place all of the system that Mr. Sloan works in... to expect a different outcome... strikes me as strange.” — Richard Wolff (13:10)

4. In-Depth Interview: The Economics of Conflicted Mothers (13:49-28:39)

a. Emotional and Economic Pressures on Working Mothers (13:49-19:09)

• Juliana Forlano shares personal and generational experience:

  • Guilt and emotional labor pervade motherhood.
  • “It’s like you suddenly give birth, and also guilt comes out.” (15:12)

• Persistent gendered division of labor:

  • Even in egalitarian households, mothers bear unique emotional and practical burdens.
  • Breastfeeding, emotional connection, and childcare tasks remain primarily mothers’ responsibilities.

• Quote:

  • “That burden continues around the clock. You don’t go to work and leave it at home.” — Juliana Forlano (17:41)

b. Compounded Challenges: Family Structure, Economics, and Social Support (19:10-22:27)

• Logistical and emotional strain from economic conditions:

  • Forlano moved away from family for work, losing valued intergenerational support.
  • Decaying job markets (e.g., Syracuse, NY post-NAFTA) force such difficult choices.

• Childcare as a separate economy:

  • Many mothers face a choice: diminished income or relinquishing direct child-rearing to paid caregivers.

• Impact of weakened community ties:

  • Forlano describes her upbringing surrounded by family and contrasts that with isolated modern living for work.

• Quote:

  • “That increases a tension level for a mother because... mothers want to know their kids are going to be safe and protected and enveloped in love beyond what the mother can give.” — Juliana Forlano (21:42)

c. Economic Insecurity & the Gig Economy's Toll (22:28-24:51)

• The reality of multiple part-time jobs:

  • Forlano had three overlapping jobs (adjunct professor, radio host, freelance activism reporting), with irregular hours and pay.
  • Instability, no employer-provided health care, constant pressure to “make ends meet.”

• Quote:

  • “How good of a mother can you be when you’re terrified that you can’t feed the kids…? Even if you’re a middle class mom, there’s still economic insecurity.” — Juliana Forlano (23:44)

• Debt burdens are intergenerational:

  • Forlano is still paying off nearly six figures in student debt while planning for her child’s future.

d. System Failures: Health Care, Parental Leave, and Structural Infelicities (24:52-28:28)

• Healthcare access tied to employment:

  • Europe as a contrast: health care is universal, not dependent on job status.
  • In the U.S., “you have to earn your right to be cared for” (24:51)

• Paid parental leave missing:

  • U.S. is the only advanced country with no legally required paid maternity/paternity leave.
  • Other nations provide six months to a year; in the U.S., six weeks is standard—and inadequate.

• Quote:

  • “The first time you have to drop off your child away from you is incredibly difficult… That emotional toll is going to spill over onto your work. I’m sorry. We’re not, like, compartmentalized as human beings.”— Juliana Forlano (27:12)

• Systemic critique:

  • Wolff frames the issue as fundamental:
    • “Is the economy there to serve what people need, or are people there to serve what the employer needs?” (28:04)

e. Visions for a Better Economic System (25:30-28:28)

• What would a more humane system provide?

  • Free, quality education (including college)
  • Universal health care
  • Meaningful, paid maternity leave (“more than six weeks!”)
  • Flexible work hours and real community support structures

• Unheeded costs:

  • Emotional well-being and mental health are treated as afterthoughts rather than as essential concerns for working mothers and, by extension, the whole workforce.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It wouldn’t have helped them buy a cup of coffee.” — Richard Wolff (01:26), on Jamie Dimon's $1.25/worker gesture during the shutdown.
• “It was a moment missed. But if we realize that, we won’t make that mistake again.” — Richard Wolff (05:45), about the absence of mass labor mobilization.
• “That burden continues around the clock. You don’t go to work and leave it at home.” — Juliana Forlano (17:41), on maternal emotional responsibilities.
• “How good of a mother can you be when you’re terrified that you can’t feed the kids…?” — Juliana Forlano (23:44)
• “The first time you have to drop off your child away from you is incredibly difficult… We’re not, like, compartmentalized as human beings.” — Juliana Forlano (27:12)
• “Is the economy there to serve what people need, or are people there to serve what the employer needs?” — Richard Wolff (28:04)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:10 — Intro & shutdown analysis
• 04:00 — Labor’s missed opportunity; Sarah Nelson’s general strike call
• 08:22 — Teacher strikes and labor movement lessons
• 12:23 — On systemic corruption in banking
• 13:49 — Interview with Juliana Forlano begins
• 15:10 — Forlano on inherited guilt and work-life expectations
• 17:41 — Emotional labor as a “burden continues around the clock”
• 21:42 — Economic isolation and increased pressure on mothers
• 23:44 — Insecurity of the gig economy for mothers
• 25:46 — Vision for a better system: education, healthcare, leave
• 27:12 — Emotional toll of separation; critique of the system
• 28:04 — Wolff’s summary critique

Tone and Language

• The conversation is forthright, empathetic, and analytical.
• Wolff contextualizes individual struggles within broader economic structures, maintaining a critical but approachable style.
• Forlano shares candid, heartfelt experiences, using humor and honesty to underscore both practical and emotional challenges.
• The tone pivots between critical economic analysis and the intimate realities of family life under American capitalism.

Summary

This episode seamlessly interweaves current events—austerity politics, the labor movement, and financial scandals—with a poignant discussion on how American capitalism consistently fails working mothers. Concrete examples of personal struggle, public policy deficiencies, and persisting gender imbalances surface throughout Forlano’s interview. Together, Wolff and Forlano make a compelling case for an economy built to serve people’s needs, advocating systemic reforms in education, health care, and family support structures, and calling attention to the often invisible—yet powerful—burdens borne by mothers in America.