Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Economics of Emotional Labor

Date: January 5, 2017
Guest: Dr. Harriet Fraad (Mental Health Counselor and Hypnotherapist)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the economic and social significance of "emotional labor," a form of work that is often invisible or undervalued, especially in traditional economics. In a wide-ranging discussion with Dr. Harriet Fraad, Richard Wolff links emotional labor to home life, service industry work, gender inequality, and the functioning of capitalism. The conversation highlights how a failure to value and compensate emotional labor shapes family relationships, labor markets, social policy, and even election outcomes.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. International Economic Updates (00:00-29:00)

Right to Disconnect in France (05:30)

• France passed a law mandating companies with more than 50 employees to establish a "charter of good conduct," including rules that allow employees to disconnect from work communications after hours. This protects workers from being expected to respond to emails and other messages outside work time.
• Richard Wolff (06:42):
  “It is a way of protecting the effective length of the working day. And I wanted to make that point not only because most workers in most other countries do not have any such protection ... It's a way of illustrating what happens when a working class has strong unions and political parties that advance its interests.”

US Food Subsidies & Junk Food Epidemic (13:20)

• For 1995-2010, the US government paid $170 billion in agricultural subsidies, mostly for corn, wheat, rice, soy, sorghum, milk, and meat. These are largely turned into cheap, unhealthy processed foods, fueling obesity rates.
• Quote from Jomo Kwame Sundaram via Richard Wolff (16:08):
  “The same US Government that subsidizes the production of cheap, readily accessible food in these forms that contribute to obesity, the same US Government that does that is constantly urging the people to eat less of those foods and more fruits and vegetables, et cetera, et cetera, yet it doesn't begin to subsidize the kinds of small local farms that can produce fruits and vegetables.”

Universal Basic Income (UBI) Debate (20:40)

• Wolff points out that those who oppose UBI on the grounds that it would create a class of "non-working earners" ignore the reality of inherited wealth and dividend income. The capitalist system already delivers passive income to the wealthy.
• Richard Wolff (22:46):
  “In a capitalist system, there are two ways to earn income. One is by working and getting paid a wage or a salary ... But there's a second way: you can own something ... and if you own them, you can get an income even though you don't do any work at all.”

Cooperative Ownership in Fridley, Minnesota (25:00)

• Residents of a mobile home park organized a cooperative, bought the land, and began self-management—improving services and community well-being. Highlights the broader potential of cooperative ownership.
• Richard Wolff (27:03):
  “It's a way of making sure that instead of the whole operation working to the benefit of a tiny number of people who own the business, the whole operation works to the benefit of the whole community that depends on it.”

Denmark's Childcare System in Peril (28:30)

• Denmark's highly subsidized childcare system allows almost all children access to daycare for about $200/month, but it's under threat from austerity-minded politicians.

2. Economics of Emotional Labor with Dr. Harriet Fraad (30:10-56:13)

What is Emotional Labor? (32:53)

• Harriet Fraad:
  "Emotional labor is an effort of brain and muscle and emotion to try to figure out the emotional needs of another and to provide for those needs."
• Emotional labor ranges from personal relationships to service jobs (waitressing, sales). It involves extending oneself to meet another’s emotional or psychological needs, whether at work or in the family.

Emotional Labor and Gender (37:46)

• Harriet Fraad:
  “Emotional labor ... can be used for constructive or destructive ends. In something like sales work, you psych out the emotional need of the potential buyer in order to persuade that person to buy what you're selling, whether they need it or not.”
• Emotional labor has historically been made invisible because it was viewed as a natural outgrowth of "femaleness" rather than as real labor. Society has devalued nurturing and caregiving work, resulting in low pay for professions like daycare.

Devaluation and Invisibilization (40:21)

• Daycare workers are often paid less than parking lot attendants, despite the complexity and value of caring for children.
• Harriet Fraad (40:32):
  “Daycare workers are paid less than parking lot attendants. So to watch a car is considered more valuable than to extend yourself and meet the needs of young children.”

Societal Consequences: Family and Labor Market (47:49)

• The entry of women into the workforce (especially white, middle-class women) in the 1970s—partly due to stagnant male wages—meant less emotional labor available inside the home.
• Richard Wolff (49:29):
  “When the woman leaves the household … she can’t put out the emotional labor in the family that she once did … So she is less able to do the emotional labor. And at the same time, being a full time worker like her husband, she needs emotional labor from others the way the husband did need it and got it from his wife. So you have a recipe for the explosion of the American family.”
• Harriet Fraad (51:16):
  “Men were not prepared to care for their women or their children... Even now, men are loathed. … male wages have been flattened since the 70s, men come home wanting more emotional labor from their wives... Well, that isn’t happening. And that’s one of the reasons that marriage isn’t happening.”

Structural Solutions & Societal Change (55:30)

• Valuing and compensating emotional labor could transform personal lives, workplaces, and society. Recognizing this work could include wage supplements for emotionally demanding jobs.
• Harriet Fraad (55:30):
  “If you acknowledge the component of labor that is emotional labor, you would have to give an emotional labor wage supplement to the worst paid workers: nurses’ aides, childcare workers, early childhood educators, social workers...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Invisible Labor
  “It's been invisible because it was described and it was ascribed as a genetic outgrowth of femaleness. … It's just as bizarre as assuming picking cotton was the preference for darker people.”
  —Harriet Fraad (37:46)

• On Devaluation
  “To watch a car is considered more valuable than to extend yourself and meet the needs of young children.”
  —Harriet Fraad (40:32)

• On Capitalism and Emotional Labor
  “If you really have compassion for your workers, it would be harder to lay them off. … If you don't see their humanity, if you don't connect to their emotional life, it's much more easy to treat them badly and to scrimp on them in order to enrich yourself.”
  —Harriet Fraad (44:16)

• On Gender, Work, and Social Consequences
  “The men were not prepared to care for their women or their children...That isn’t happening. And that’s one of the reasons that marriage isn’t happening.”
  —Harriet Fraad (51:16)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:30 — France’s “Right to Disconnect” law
• 13:20 — US food subsidies and junk food
• 20:40 — Universal Basic Income debate and inherited wealth
• 25:00 — Cooperative ownership in Fridley, MN
• 28:30 — Denmark’s subsidized childcare system
• 30:10 — Introduction to Dr. Harriet Fraad and topic of emotional labor
• 32:53 — Definition of emotional labor
• 37:46 — Emotional labor, gender, and invisibility
• 40:32 — The devaluation of caregiving work
• 47:49 — The link between paid labor, emotional labor, and American family structure
• 55:30 — The transformative potential of validating and compensating emotional labor

Tone & Language

The discussion maintains an accessible, passionate, and critical tone. Both Wolff and Fraad use vivid examples, personal anecdotes, and a mix of economic, psychological, and feminist perspectives, making the content both intellectually rigorous and relatable.

Summary Takeaway

The episode makes a compelling case for the recognition of emotional labor as both an economic and social necessity—one that deserves visibility, respect, and fair compensation. Addressing emotional labor’s invisibility could play a pivotal role in remedying gender inequality, improving family and workplace dynamics, and reimagining a more humane and sustainable economic system.