Podcast Summary
Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: Economy, Psychology, Mental Health
Date: November 3, 2016
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Dr. Harriet Fraad (second half)
Overview
This episode explores the intersection of economic structures and mental health, emphasizing how capitalism's organization of work and society impacts psychological well-being. Richard D. Wolff opens with recent economic updates and critiques, including labor struggles, inequality, corporate mergers, and systemic dysfunctions. The second half features Dr. Harriet Fraad, who delves into the psychological consequences of economic organization—particularly contrasting hierarchical capitalist workplaces with democratic worker cooperatives.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Economic Highlights and Critiques (00:00–29:44)
Harvard's Contradictory Wealth and Worker Treatment
- Wolff revisits Harvard's cafeteria workers' strike, criticizing the dissonance between the university's vast fundraising ($7 billion) and its treatment of low-paid staff (average salary ~$30,000/year).
- Quote:
"This is a university that boasted already has 36 billion, on track to raise another 7...what it would cost to give the 750 workers an extra 5,000 a year would be under $4 million." — Richard D. Wolff (04:15)
Corporate Mega-Mergers and Consequences
- Discusses mergers like AT&T–Time Warner, GE–Baker Hughes, and CenturyLink–Level 3, totaling $125 billion, warning they deepen inequality, political influence, layoffs, and price increases.
Political Campaign Finance Inequality
- Highlights campaign fundraising disparities:
- Hillary Clinton: $700 million
- Donald Trump: $300 million
- Bernie Sanders: $200 million
- Jill Stein: $3.5 million
- Quote:
"What kind of democracy permits such inequality? ... You don't have a democratic political system if you do not have a democratic economic system upon which it sits." — Richard D. Wolff (08:30)
CEO Pay and Portland’s Proposed Tax
- Notes Portland's plan to tax corporations with excessive CEO-to-worker pay gaps.
- Mayor Charlie Hales’s testimony illustrates the success of employee-owned, egalitarian business models.
- Quote:
"Everyone worked a little harder because your success was my success. And that egalitarian culture led to a strong work ethic." — Mayor Charlie Hales, cited by Wolff (11:19)
Warning Signs in Global Trade
- No profits reported by the world's 20 largest shipping container companies, indicating a deepening economic crisis, not recovery.
Koch Brothers Influence in Academia
- Details the controversy over Koch funding at the Catholic University of America and conflicts with Catholic social teaching as voiced by Pope Francis.
Global Wage Inequality
- Minimum wage in Myanmar: $2.80 per 8-hour day
- Georgia (country): $8.50 per month
- Western companies seek to exploit these disparities for profit.
The "Out-of-Touch" Elite
- Critiques comments by Blackstone Group CEO Stephen Schwarzman, who characterized Americans’ economic insecurity as natural and blamed government regulation.
Prison Labor as Modern Slavery
- The U.S. allows for forced prison labor under the 13th Amendment’s exception clause, a practice Wolff condemns as modern-day slavery.
2. Economic Organization and Mental Health – Conversation with Dr. Harriet Fraad (29:44–end)
Dr. Fraad's Introduction and Segment Purpose
- New recurring segment: Dr. Fraad analyzes how economic systems affect psychology and interpersonal relationships.
Four Pillars of Mental Health (34:17)
Dr. Fraad outlines:
- Personal Connection (family, close friends, intimate relationships)
- Essential for development ("failure to thrive" in orphans as an extreme example)
- Broader Social Ties (colleagues, everyday acquaintances)
- Group Membership (clubs, activism, religious groups, social societies)
- Americans’ participation in such groups has declined; indicator of social fragmentation.
- Solidarity with Humanity (sense of belonging to humankind)
- Fosters empathy and resilience.
Quote:
"Mental health is kind of like a four legged table, that each leg adds to the stability of the table. … If all four of them or three of them are shaking, you're going to have an awfully hard time." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (34:17)
America's Eroding Social Foundations
- Personal and community connections have weakened for most Americans, except the wealthiest.
- Isolation contributes to depression (anger turned inward) and rage (anger directed outward, e.g., mass shootings).
- Statistics: 40 mass shootings in the U.S. in September alone; far outpacing other wealthy nations.
Quote:
"Every other country that is anything like that ... there's a sense of caring that's shown by supports." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (40:10)
- U.S. lack of paid maternity leave aligns with some of the poorest and most unstable nations.
Disconnection & Drug Addiction
- High rates of opioid addiction linked to lack of connection and persistent trauma.
- U.S. has 5% of global population but consumes 80% of opioids.
How Capitalist Workplaces Harm Mental Health (47:25)
- Capitalist enterprises:
- Hierarchical
- Few decide for many
- Workers are cogs, replaceable, and experience little agency
- Result: Lack of participation and recognition at work erodes mental stability.
Quote:
"You are just a cipher in a profit calculus that is not something that contributes to your sense of importance and of connection with the wider job." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (47:25)
Worker Cooperatives as Positive Alternative
- In cooperatives (ex. Mondragon):
- Decisions are democratic (one member, one vote)
- Lockstep, repetitive tasks are minimized; job rotation is common
- Collective decision-making fosters belonging and mutual aid
- Broad wage equality (max ratio of 8:1 in Mondragon)
- Collective tackling of personal problems (e.g., substance abuse)—members support one another
Memorable Moment (Mondragon story):
- Workers voted to rotate tasks every two hours
- When faced with layoffs, members chose collectively to reduce hours/pay rather than fire anyone
- Substance abuse handled through peer support instead of punishment
Quote:
"Because without connection, people are sunk. That's why solitary confinement is a cruel and unusual punishment that is totally disintegrating of individuals." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (52:32)
Social Disconnection, Violence, and the Role of Cooperative Culture
- U.S. system’s isolationism drives up violence, mental illness, and substance abuse.
- Teams (sports, military) exemplify the human yearning for connection—even if outside work.
Quote:
"Many of the men that I've talked to look back with greater fondness on their time either in a sports team or in the army ... That that feeling of being part of something ... was experienced as a kind of euphoria compared to the loneliness and isolation that the rest of their life has meant." — Richard D. Wolff (53:06)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Harvard’s priorities:
"Her efforts are for a better Harvard, comma, but also for a better world. And she must then believe that a better world was achieved by denying these working people the small increase from 30 to 35,000 a year." — Richard D. Wolff (04:00)
-
On campaign finance inequality:
"Clinton at one end, $700 million. Jill Stein at the other, $3.5 million. What kind of democracy permits such inequality?" — Richard D. Wolff (09:15)
-
On U.S. prison labor:
"We make them work against their will. We make them work for amounts of money that are pennies per hour, not even close to our lamentably low minimum wage. We impose slavery and then wonder why people coming out of jail are often angry, bitter, are not rehabilitated." — Richard D. Wolff (27:20)
-
On the four legs of mental health:
"Mental health is kind of like a four legged table...If all four of them or three of them are shaking, you're going to have an awfully hard time." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (34:17)
-
On disconnection and violence:
"In one month alone, we had 40 mass shootings. ... There is no other country that is anything like that." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (40:20)
-
On alienation in capitalist workplaces:
"You are just a cipher in a profit calculus that is not something that contributes to your sense of importance and of connection with the wider job." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (47:25)
-
On co-ops and mental health:
"You are a function. You do this, you do that. But you are not a person who is needed and wanted as such. You contrast that with the cooperative in which every person cooperates to do everything." — Dr. Harriet Fraad (48:33)
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 00:00–04:45 — Harvard wealth vs. worker strike
- 04:46–08:40 — Mega-mergers, corporate consolidation
- 08:41–11:30 — Campaign finance and democracy
- 11:31–15:10 — Portland's CEO pay ratio tax & worker ownership
- 15:11–18:00 — International trade collapse
- 18:01–22:30 — Koch brothers/Catholic University and Pope Francis
- 22:31–25:40 — Global wage comparisons and labor exploitation
- 25:41–27:30 — Schwarzman, elite disconnection, and blame on government
- 27:31–29:44 — Prison labor and the 13th amendment
- 29:44 — Dr. Harriet Fraad joins; mental health & economic organization
- 34:17 — The four legs of mental health
- 39:03 — U.S. societal disconnection and consequences
- 44:11 — Workplace alienation vs. cooperation and global perspectives
- 47:25 — Mental health impacts: capitalist hierarchy vs. democratic co-op
- 52:03–54:25 — Workplace as a team, nostalgia, and loss of connection
- 56:18 — Closing remarks and invitation for engagement
Final Thoughts
This episode provides a sobering analysis of modern economic life, highlighting systemic inequality, the stark disconnect between corporate rhetoric and reality, and most powerfully, the profound mental health consequences of economic organization. Dr. Fraad’s framework of the “four-legged table” underlines the psychological necessity of connection at all levels, and the co-op workplace emerges as not just an economic alternative, but a mental health imperative. Wolff and Fraad conclude that meaningful change requires both economic and psychological transformation—towards democracy, solidarity, and human dignity.
(For questions or further topics, Wolff and Fraad invite listeners to reach out at democracyatwork.info and rdwolff.com.)