Podcast Summary
Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: Faith and Labor Fight Inequality
Date: August 11, 2017
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guests: Joerg Rieger and Rosemarie Henkel Rieger
Overview
This episode explores the intersection of faith communities and labor activism in the fight against economic inequality. Host Richard D. Wolff reviews current economic events—such as the hidden impact of golf courses on affordable housing, outrageously high drug prices, scapegoating of immigrants—and then dives into a rich discussion with theologian Joerg Rieger and labor activist Rosemarie Henkel Rieger. Their dialog centers on how religious traditions and faith-based communities can, and do, partner with labor movements to challenge the status quo and build a more equitable society.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
[00:54] The Economic Impact of Golf Courses
- Golf Courses as Exemplars of Inequality:
- Golf courses, often favored by the wealthy, consume vast land and water resources, especially in cities like Los Angeles.
- Government support gives golf courses exemptions (taxes, environmental regulations), distorting the free market and exacerbating housing shortages.
- Quote:
- “There is no free market in land or in rental units because if it were free, then there wouldn't be the government stepping in to give all the benefits to landholders.” — Richard Wolff [03:20]
- Example — Yale University’s Golf Course, New Haven:
- Takes up significant city land, pays no taxes (due to university status), serves primarily as a fundraiser and privilege for the wealthy, depriving the city of much-needed housing and tax revenue.
[10:05] Bernie Sanders, Drug Prices, and Corporate Influence
- US Pays the World’s Highest Drug Prices:
- Sanders and Klobuchar’s proposal: Let Americans buy drugs from Canada, where prices are significantly lower.
- Pharmaceutical industry blocks such measures, claiming (disingenuously) that Canadian drugs may be unsafe.
- Quote:
- “Show me the dead Canadians.” — Quoting Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty [13:30], refuting the safety argument against Canadian drugs.
- Drug Companies’ Political Power:
- Pharmaceutical industry donations to Congress have surged (up 11% overall, 80% to health committee leaders), fueling a system where maintaining profit margins supersedes public interest.
[15:55] Corporate Tax Rate Myths
- Discrepancy Between Statutory and Effective Rates:
- Politicians cite a 35% US corporate tax rate, but, after deductions, the effective rate is closer to 14%.
- This is used to justify further tax cuts, despite already increased after-tax profits for corporations.
- Quote:
- “It’s all bogus propaganda to try to get another tax cut.” — Richard Wolff [16:30]
[18:20] Corporate Corruption in Science (Monsanto Case)
- Monsanto and Pesticide Research:
- Monsanto funded research to cloud public understanding of the dangers of its product, Roundup.
- Academic integrity is compromised when corporate interests sponsor research that impacts public health.
- Quote:
- “To allow a private company that profits [from something] to be in the business of sponsoring scientific research is asking for corruption.” — Richard Wolff [20:50]
[22:30] The Economics of Scapegoating Immigrants
- US & Germany Parallel:
- Political leaders (Trump, Merkel) use immigrants as scapegoats for economic woes, diverting blame away from systemic problems.
- Root Causes of Immigration:
- Direct link between the wealth of nations like the US and Germany and the poverty of the countries immigrants come from.
- Both countries benefit from, and sometimes cause, the conditions that drive people to migrate.
- Immigration and National Wealth:
- US prosperity is historically rooted in immigration; demonizing immigrants is counterproductive.
- Policy Solutions:
- Taxing the wealthy to provide jobs for all—both natives and immigrants—would remove economic insecurity as a source of anti-immigrant resentment.
- Quote:
- “Stop beating up on the immigrants. It’s the wrong target, it’s not the problem you face. And a better solution is available if you just face where the wealth has to come from.” — Richard Wolff [28:00]
[30:08] Interview: Faith and Labor in the Struggle Against Inequality
Guests Introduction
- Joerg Rieger: Professor of Theology, Vanderbilt University; focuses on the intersection of religion, power, and social/economic justice.
- Rosemarie Henkel Rieger: Lecturer, labor consultant, and founder of Texas New Era Center; works on worker-owned cooperatives and economic empowerment.
[33:05] Faith as Source of Social Justice
- Religion can be both an obstacle and a resource for positive change; all Abrahamic faiths have strong traditions of fighting inequality and promoting justice.
- Quote:
- “While I'm a Christian... there is a lot of passion [for justice] there that goes in the same direction [in Judaism and Islam].” — Joerg Rieger [33:00]
- Quote:
[34:16] Faith Communities Are Divided Terrains
- Many perceive religious groups as politically conservative, but history and lived experience show significant faith-based activism for justice.
- Example: Religious socialists in early 1900s Oklahoma, largely forgotten today.
- “There are these pockets of resistance within a lot of faith communities, and not just small pockets.” — Rosemarie Henkel Rieger [35:19]
[39:16] Wage Depression: Productivity Up, Wages Flat
- Worker productivity increased steadily, but wages stalled from the 1970s onward.
- The resulting “wage depression” affects not just the poor but much of the working and middle class.
- Memorable Statistic:
- Today, the top 1% holds over 40% of US wealth, compared to 16% in the Roman Empire [41:50].
- Quote:
- “The Roman Empire was more equal than the United States of today.” — Joerg Rieger [41:50]
[42:34] The “Working Poor” and Community Awareness
- Most poor people are working (often multiple jobs), yet cannot make ends meet—contrary to stereotypes of laziness or unemployment.
- In places like Nashville, people may need three low-wage jobs to afford basic housing.
- The blame often comes from people outside those communities.
- Quote:
- “Poor working people are working as hard as ever, maybe harder than ever before, and they’re not able to make ends meet.” — Joerg Rieger [45:30]
- Quote:
[47:50] Faith-Based Activism: Worker Rights Boards
- Worker Rights Board Hearings:
- Open forums where workers share stories with community and leaders, increasing awareness and sparking dialogue.
- Involving faith leaders and working people connects economic struggle to spiritual values, offering dignity and solidarity.
[51:00] Rethinking Theological Narratives
- God as Worker:
- Encouraging working-class communities to see themselves as central to both the economy and their faith traditions: e.g., the carpenter Jesus, the exodus from slavery, God siding with the oppressed.
- Quote:
- “Do you ever think of God as a worker? For them, it's not that hard to see that God may actually be more like a worker than a CEO.” — Joerg Rieger [51:00]
[53:10] Religion and Labor: Natural Allies
- Faith communities could (and do, in pockets) partner with labor for transformative change.
- The challenge is to connect these traditions and make them more visible and effective.
[54:33] Hope, Caution, and the Path Forward
-
On Change:
- There is real but “cautious hope” that capitalism as currently constructed is unsustainable, and change is possible.
- This will not happen automatically—organizing, partnership, and confronting the scale of inequality is essential.
- Quote:
- “You have to stare the trouble in the face and you have to address it head on, because it's not going to happen by itself.” — Joerg Rieger [55:24]
-
On Combining Faith and Activism:
- Religious commitment, when tied to organizing and labor rights, is a powerful engine for positive change.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“There is no free market in land or in rental units… the government [makes] the price of your home… shaped by the ability of wealthy people to get the government to give them those golf courses where they want them, convenient.”
— Richard Wolff [03:20] -
“Show me the dead Canadians.”
— Quoting Governor Tim Pawlenty on the safety of Canadian drugs [13:30] -
“It’s all bogus propaganda to try to get another tax cut.”
— Richard Wolff, on the corporate tax rate debate [16:30] -
“To allow a private company that profits [from making something] to be in the business of sponsoring scientific research is asking for corruption.”
— Richard Wolff [20:50] -
“Do you ever think of God as a worker? For them, it's not that hard to see that God may actually be more like a worker than a CEO.”
— Joerg Rieger [51:00] -
“You have to stare the trouble in the face and you have to address it head on, because it's not going to happen by itself.”
— Joerg Rieger [55:24]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [00:54] – The hidden economics of golf courses and free market myth
- [10:05] – Bernie Sanders, high US drug prices, pharma lobbying
- [15:55] – Corporate tax rate propaganda and effective tax rates
- [18:20] – Monsanto, scientific research, and public health risks
- [22:30] – Scapegoating immigrants in the US and Germany
- [30:08] – Transition to faith and labor interview
- [33:05] – Religion’s potential as a force for social justice
- [39:16] – Wage depression and the historical trend of inequality
- [42:34] – The working poor: realities and misconceptions
- [47:50] – Worker Rights Boards and grassroots activism
- [51:00] – God as worker; religious stories as liberation narratives
- [53:10] – Religion and labor as partners for systemic change
- [54:33] – Hopeful but realistic views on the future
Conclusion
Richard D. Wolff closes by emphasizing the critical need for alliances between labor and faith communities, underpinned by education, activism, and solidarity. The conversation with Joerg and Rosemarie Rieger highlights the often-overlooked history and living reality of faith-based social justice, providing insight into both the challenges and the transformative potential facing the US economic landscape today.