Episode Overview

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: Fascism: An Analysis for Today
Date: March 23, 2019
Host: Richard D. Wolff

This episode is dedicated entirely to understanding the modern resurgence of fascism, its economic roots, and how it differs fundamentally from socialism. Professor Richard D. Wolff examines fascism’s historical origins, economic function, and modern echoes, arguing that understanding these dynamics is essential for confronting threats to democracy and economic justice today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Fascism’s Resurgence and the "Strong Man" Phenomenon

[00:10–03:00]

• Wolff opens by noting the resurgence of fascism globally, reminiscent of the 1930s.
• The appearance of "strong man" leaders is a classic response when capitalist societies fall into crisis.
  • Examples: Viktor Orban (Hungary), Donald Trump (U.S.), Jair Bolsonaro (Brazil), Marine Le Pen (France), Alternative for Germany (AfD), and political dynamics in Spain and Italy.
• Wolff draws parallels between current events and historic figures like Mussolini and Hitler.

Quote:
"The fascist response to society's problems has very often featured what is called a strong man...they're popping up all over the place."
— Richard D. Wolff [01:45]

2. Economic Crises and Divergent Responses

[03:00–07:55]

• Crises in capitalism generate two main responses:
  • Save Capitalism: Led by strongmen and fascist ideologies—try to salvage the existing system through forceful interventions.
  • Change the System: Push for socialism or communism—a move beyond capitalism toward a different systemic alternative.
• Wolff warns against conflating these reactions simply as populism, as they represent fundamentally different projects.

Quote:
"Saving the system through a strong man who can carry us through is a very different political project from saying goodbye to capitalism and moving on..."
— Richard D. Wolff [05:22]

3. What is Fascism Economically?

[07:55–13:10]

• Fascism is defined as an economic system where government intervenes—not to move beyond capitalism—but to prop it up when private enterprise is failing.
  • Government suppresses unions, manipulates foreign trade, deregulates markets to favor business, and boosts military spending.
  • This is a departure from free-market principles: "It's all about saving capitalism."
• Fascist regimes have historically destroyed socialist and communist opposition, often with extreme violence (Italy: Antonio Gramsci; Germany: Hitler’s purges of leftists and minorities).

Quote:
"The fascist solution to capitalism's breakdown is to bring in the government to support private capitalist enterprises. It is sometimes referred to as a merging of the government and private enterprise."
— Richard D. Wolff [09:15]

Quote:
"Fascists kill socialists almost everywhere where you see fascism, and that's a service they provide to, to capitalists too..."
— Richard D. Wolff [12:48]

4. The Socialist Response to Capitalist Crisis

[13:10–15:40]

• Socialists highlight instability and inequality within capitalism as arguments for systemic change.
• Their solution: government should enable transition away from capitalism, toward a society focused on meeting broad social needs, not profits for a few.

Quote:
"Don't save capitalism, that's fascism. Help the mass of people move beyond capitalism to a socialist system where things are run not for capitalists, but for the mass of people..."
— Richard D. Wolff [14:13]

5. Nationalism as Fascism’s Disguise

[21:49–27:37] (Second Half after break)

• Fascist interventions are always justified not as helping capitalists, but as saving the nation.
  • Nationalism becomes the cloak for propping up a broken capitalistic system.
  • Examples: Hitler’s "National Socialism," Mussolini’s rhetoric, Bolsonaro, and Trump’s nationalist language.

Quote:
"It can't be admitted for what it is...what's the disguise? What's the way to get it done? And the answer is really nationalism. It's always been the go to thing to say."
— Richard D. Wolff [22:30]

6. Applying the Lens: Trump and the U.S. Context

[27:38–30:47]

• Wolff does not declare the U.S. currently fascist, but identifies a movement in that direction:
  • Attacks on free trade, promotion of tariffs, and government intervention into markets are clear signals.
  • Rhetoric around "saving the nation" from outside threats, tax breaks for business, and controlling migration all echo classic fascist tactics.

Quote:
"Do we have fascism in America? Not yet. No, we don't have it yet. But boy, have we got movement in that direction...and it would be naive and ignorant not to see it."
— Richard D. Wolff [28:20]

7. Distinguishing Fascism from Socialism

[30:48–35:32]

• The left and right both call for government intervention, but with fundamentally different objectives:
  • Fascism: Reinforces the capitalist order for the benefit of elites (profits, deregulation, suppression of dissent).
  • Socialism: Seeks to transform society to meet the needs of the many, not the profits of the few.
• Wolff strongly contests the idea that fascism and socialism are simply two sides of statism.

Quote:
"Yes, they [both fascists and socialists] want the government to step in, but that's where it ends. They want the government to step in for radically different reasons...going to a different future."
— Richard D. Wolff [31:08]

8. Fascism’s Playbook: Crisis, Nationalism, and Mythology

[35:33–39:18]

• Fascism identifies scapegoats (minorities, migrants, political enemies), invokes national myths, and exploits nostalgia to mobilize support.
  • E.g., Hitler's "Third Reich," "make the country great again" slogans.
  • Nationalism and sometimes religion are weaponized to justify repressive interventions.

Quote:
"In other countries you invent a good old days mythology, a story of the past when the nation was wonderful and great and super. And we're gonna go back there, make put in the country great again. That's a standard play."
— Richard D. Wolff [38:45]

9. Concluding Thoughts: Why Understanding Matters

[39:19–End]

• Recognizing the economic function and disguise of fascism is critical for resisting its rise.
• The importance of historical examples (e.g., U.S. in the 1930s resisted fascist currents while Europe succumbed).
• Wolff urges vigilance and education: preventing fascism requires that people understand these dynamics.

Quote:
"It's understandable that fascism is in the news, and we need to understand it in order to avoid it."
— Richard D. Wolff [40:55]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Strongmen and Crisis:
  "You can lump them all together, but lumping them is itself a political act, an ideological act, because they are fundamentally different." [05:09]

• On the Fascist Project:
  "Fascism is basically the name for an economic system, even though the word has been used for many things. But in economics, fascism is when the government is called in...to reinforce, to support, to sustain private capitalist enterprises." [08:03]

• On Socialists versus Fascists:
  "Fascism means the control of a population to save capitalism. Socialism means go beyond it and they have trouble, these two." [14:08]

• On Nationalism as a Cover:
  "The government can't say we're saving the people who run this show...so there has to be another way that you can justify...and the answer is really nationalism." [22:20]

• On the Danger for America:
  "Maybe it won’t come [fascism] if enough Americans understand what’s at stake and what’s going on so that they can prevent it." [39:49]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:10] Introduction; framing of fascism’s resurgence and strongman politics
• [03:00] Diverging responses to capitalist collapse: fascism vs socialism
• [07:55] Economic definition and historical function of fascism
• [13:10] Socialist critique and call for systemic change
• [21:49] Nationalism as disguise for fascist interventions (post-break)
• [27:38] Case study: U.S. trajectory under Trump
• [30:48] Differences between fascism and socialism clarified
• [35:33] Fascism’s use of myths, nationalism, and scapegoating
• [39:19] Final thoughts on understanding and resisting fascism

Conclusion

Richard D. Wolff’s analysis contends that fascism is not just a political phenomenon but a repeated capitalist response to existential crisis: a strategy by which elites, with the help of government, preserve the capitalist order at the expense of the majority. He warns that recognizing the disguises of fascism—especially the wrapping of economic interventions in nationalist justifications—is essential for safeguarding democracy and building a more equitable society.