Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Knowledge, Class and Economics

Date: January 18, 2018
Guest: Dr. Richard McIntyre

Overview

In this episode, host Richard D. Wolff examines pressing issues at the intersection of economics, social inequality, and systemic structure. The first half highlights recent research on workplace discrimination, globalization, inequality, and the economics of immigration and race. In the second half, Wolff welcomes Dr. Richard McIntyre to discuss their new co-edited book, "Knowledge, Class and Economics: Marxism Without Guarantees." The pair explore the relevance of class analysis and Marxism today, contemporary academic limitations, and the promise of democratic workplaces such as worker co-ops.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Workplace Discrimination and Hierarchy

[00:10–06:15]

• Wolff opens by discussing new research from Pew Research Center on discrimination, emphasizing the ongoing reality of workplace gender and racial bias.
  • “Men much, much, much less frequently experienced or noticed discrimination. Women, ... much, much more.” — Wolff [01:10]
• Explains how vertical workplace structures (with hierarchies of power) allow discrimination to persist; those at the top set the tone and have disproportional control over hiring, firing, and promotion.
  • Memorable quote:
    “If those at the top prefer men to women, you get the result. If they prefer whites to blacks... our research through the Pew organization shows us.” — Wolff [03:44]
• Advocates for democratizing the workplace: horizontal, participatory, and collective decision-making reduces the ability of a few to impose their biases.

2. The Rise of the Chinese Economy

[06:15–15:55]

• Wolff notes that China’s retail market will surpass the US for the first time in 2018: a seismic historic economic shift.
  • “No one comes close to what [China has] accomplished in the last 20 years. No one.” — Wolff [07:42]
• Explains China’s per capita income rise and quadrupled productivity over a decade, contrasting with stagnant American wages post-2008.
• Outlines the consequences: global corporations now orient investments and marketing toward China; Chinese political and economic influence grows, affecting US corporate and political realities.
  • “Last year, in 2016... 17.6 million vehicles were sold in the United States. ... How many vehicles were sold in [China]? 24 million.” — Wolff [14:25]
• Warns that denial in US media and political leadership will not halt these profound shifts.

3. Inequality: Systemic & Cyclical

[15:55–20:55]

• Discusses a Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco paper on global inequality, citing parallels to Piketty’s research.
• Key insight: Capitalism creates widening inequality until it destabilizes itself, produces crisis and upheaval, then is “reformed” temporarily before the cycle resumes.
  • Key quote:
    “The real lesson to be learned is you got to change the system or else you're condemned to... repeat this pattern.” — Wolff [20:41]

4. The Economics of Immigration

[23:00–27:45]

• Critiques arguments advocating only for highly-educated immigrants, highlighting the US’s history as a nation built by mostly uneducated immigrants.
• Exposes the global inequality inherent in “brain drain”: rich countries benefit from workers educated at the expense of poorer countries.
  • Memorable point:
    “That’s a way of making a rich country, the United States, richer, and the poor countries ... even poorer.” — Wolff [25:30]

5. Racial & Wealth Inequality in the United States

[27:45–29:11]

• Details disparities: Black median hourly wages are 75% of whites’, household income 60%, and wealth only 10%.
• Public education funding inequity perpetuates racial divides; poor and minority neighborhoods systematically receive worse schools, limiting upward mobility.
  • “We haven't lived up to the so-called promise of America called equal opportunity.” — Wolff [28:34]
• Cites the 1954 Supreme Court decision (Brown v. Board of Education): Separate is inherently unequal; reality decades later proves the inequality persists.
  • “One more educational reform is going to be no more successful than all those we've lived through... The system that works this way ... is the problem.” — Wolff [29:09]

Special Guest Segment: Dr. Richard McIntyre

[29:11–54:40]

Introduction, Book Presentation

[29:11–31:00]

• McIntyre presents Wolff a signed copy of the newly released book, dedicated to Wolff and the late Steve Resnick.

Marxism’s Contemporary Relevance

[31:00–34:43]

• Discusses why the 21st-century context revives interest in Marxism — especially its analysis of exploitation and class.
  • “Reminding people ... about this kind of Marxism that developed over the last 30 or 40 years is quite relevant... not only in [the] economy, but in culture and politics.” — McIntyre [31:05]
• The subtitle “Marxism Without Guarantees” reflects a rejection of dogmatic promises (e.g., simple fixes through nationalization or central planning) that caused past failures.

The Amherst School and Overdetermination

[35:11–38:01]

• Differentiates the Amherst School from other traditions: Avoids claims of possessing absolute truth, instead emphasizes complexity (“overdetermination” — multiple causal factors in social outcomes).
  • “We have partial truths. ... And that part, which Marx emphasized ... was class and the relationship between those who perform surplus labor ... and those who get surplus labor.” — McIntyre [36:11]
• The appeal is in focusing on class as defined by exploitation, not by income or property alone.

Defining Class in Amherst Marxism

[38:01–40:57]

• Class is a social relationship of surplus production and appropriation, not merely a matter of income or property.
  • “This is a very specific way of saying class is about any work situation where one person produces more than he or she gets ... and then shapes how the society works.” — Wolff [39:19]
• Critiques mainstream treatments of inequality that ignore its roots in class relations.

Mainstream Economics and Ignorance of Marxism

[40:57–47:40]

• Observes that, decades after the Cold War, most professional US economists are unfamiliar—even uninterested—in the range of Marxist scholarship.
  • “They remain in a kind of self-induced isolation from all of that, as if the Cold War weren't over...” — Wolff [41:19]
• Career incentives and insularity in academia discourage engagement with Marxian theory.
  • “So I don't think there's a willful ignorance. It's almost an unconscious thing that flows from a certain weird professional sociology.” — McIntyre [42:13]
• Ideas occasionally get adopted without attribution to Marx (“The Reserve Army of Labor” becomes a Stiglitz paper on unemployment).

Institutional Renewal on the Left

[46:19–47:40]

• Institutions begun in the 1970s and 1980s (e.g., Rethinking Marxism, Monthly Review) provide a revived base and continuity for new generations.
  • “This time is a little different and there’s more of a base to work from.” — McIntyre [47:40]

Worker Co-ops, Cuba, and Socialism for the 21st Century

[47:40–54:40]

• Explores the connection between class analysis and the push for worker cooperatives.
  • “The workplace in the United States, for the most part, is a dictatorship, and that’s where people spend a good amount of their time. ... There might as well be a sign there that says, check your democratic rights at the door.” — McIntyre [50:34]
• Discusses Cuba’s economic transition, moving away from total statist ownership to embrace more micro-level, democratically run enterprises, including co-ops.
  • “What they don’t want, they’re not 100% sure what they do want... there is an element in Cuban society that is going for that more micro approach to socialism and very consciously saying, we’re trying to create a socialism for the 21st century.” — McIntyre [53:05]
• Interactions with broader co-op and social economy movements in Latin America (Brazil, Uruguay) and growing experiments in the US and France.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On workplace hierarchy and discrimination:
  “If you organize the workplace vertically... that’s a very unhealthy arrangement.” — Wolff [02:15]

• On China’s rise:
  “The Chinese economy is the ascendant economy in the world. No one comes close...” — Wolff [07:42]

• On the cycles of capitalism and reform:
  “Reforms, adjustments to the taxes, minimum wages, all these things don’t solve the problem. The problem is a system which generates inequality over and over again...” — Wolff [20:50]

• On the Amherst school’s approach to Marxism:
  “We have partial truths. ... And that part, which Marx emphasized ... was class and the relationship between those who perform surplus labor ... and those who get surplus labor.” — McIntyre [36:11]

• On the reality of workplaces:
  “The workplace in the United States, for the most part, is a dictatorship ... There might as well be a sign there that says, check your democratic rights at the door.” — McIntyre [50:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Workplace discrimination and hierarchy: [00:10–06:15]
• China’s economic rise: [06:15–15:55]
• Global and US inequality: [15:55–20:55]
• Immigration economics: [23:00–27:45]
• Racial wealth disparity: [27:45–29:11]
• Introduction of Dr. Richard McIntyre: [29:11]
• The new Marxism, “without guarantees”: [31:00–34:43]
• The Amherst School and class analysis: [35:11–40:57]
• Economics academia and Marxist neglect: [40:57–47:40]
• Worker co-ops and Cuba’s transition: [47:40–54:40]

Tone and Language Notes

Wolff and McIntyre speak with clarity, urgency, and a didactic—yet accessible—style. They blend historical reflection with critical analysis, employing both technical and everyday language to make their arguments widely understandable.

Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a primer on how economic structures intersect with discrimination, globalization, and inequality. It exposes the persistence of discrimination in vertically organized workplaces, the transformative moment of China’s economic ascendance, and the cyclical nature of inequality under capitalism. In a substantive conversation, Wolff and McIntyre reveal how revived, nuanced forms of Marxist class analysis remain crucial for understanding not just the broader economy but also the possibilities for democratized workplaces and genuine social change in the 21st century.