Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Poverty and the US Economy
Date: May 2, 2016
Podcast Host: Richard D. Wolff, Democracy at Work
Guest: Rob Robinson, community organizer and activist

Overview

This episode of Economic Update focuses on poverty in the United States within the larger context of the current economic situation. Host Richard D. Wolff critiques narratives of “economic recovery,” highlighting systemic and growing inequalities. The core of the episode is an in-depth interview with Rob Robinson, a formerly homeless activist, looking at poverty’s root causes, everyday realities, and why existing economic structures fail to address the problem.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Current Economic Indicators and Their Realities

• U.S. Economic Growth & Federal Reserve Policy

  • The Federal Reserve has delayed interest rate hikes due to poor economic growth (Q1 2016 growth at 0.5%).
  • Wolff sees this as evidence that the much-touted recovery is overstated and not benefiting most people.

    “It indicates our economy is not going very well...businessmen and women are telling us...there's no point in producing more goods and services when there's no one out there who can afford to buy them.” (Wolff, 01:04)

• The Global Context

  • Weakness is not isolated to the U.S.; similar trends are visible in Europe and Japan.

    “The United States cannot any longer call the tune.” (Wolff, 02:23)

2. Wealth, Influence, and Universities ([03:00])

• Yale’s Naming Controversy
  • Persistent honoring of slaveholders (e.g., Calhoun College), resistance to change despite protests.
  • Decision to name a new college after Benjamin Franklin, a slaveholder, is linked to donor influence.

    “When the money wants Benjamin Franklin, well, the money gets Benjamin Franklin.” (Wolff, 06:15)

3. Higher Education & Athletic Spending ([07:30])

• The Boondoggle of College Athletics
  • Athletic department staff and salaries increase even as educational programs are cut.
  • Quoting Dan Wetzel:

    “During that period, the average salary of people in the athletic department grew 22.4% to $89,851...the number of athletic department employ making six figures went from 30 to 81.” (Wolff, 09:55)

  • Critique of universities prioritizing athletics for profit over student needs and educational quality.

4. Corporate Malfeasance ([12:30])

• Auto Industry Scandals
  • Discussion of Mitsubishi joining other car companies in faking emissions tests.
  • Broader point about corporations circumventing regulation for profit at public expense.

    “Capitalist corporations are profitable seeking institutions...they will sacrifice everything, lives, health, air, you name it.” (Wolff, 15:46)

5. Positive Model: Employee Ownership ([16:00])

• Chobani’s Profit Sharing
  • CEO Hamdi Ulukaya gives substantial shares to employees, some receiving up to $1 million.
  • Ulukaya’s rationale:

    “Now they'll be working to build the company even more and building their future at the same time.” (Wolff, quoting NYT, 18:23)

  • Wolff extrapolates to advocate for worker cooperatives as superior business structures.

6. Marxist-Catholic Dialogue ([20:00])

• Rare Vatican-Left Meeting
  • Pope Francis’ representatives and European Marxists discuss social justice, the environment, migration, and neoliberal austerity.

    “The environmental crisis is the result of a structurally perverse system.” (Wolff quoting Pope Francis, 24:15)

7. Listener Q&A: Worker Co-ops and Gentrification ([25:00])

• Financing Worker Cooperatives
  • Practical solutions for fairly onboarding new members without disadvantaging founders.
• Gentrification
  • Limiting free market operation as a way to democratize housing and resist displacement.

In-Depth Interview: Rob Robinson on Poverty in the U.S. ([29:00])

a. The Illusion of Recovery

• Who Really Recovers?
  • “Recovery for whom?”—the rich see gains while impoverished Americans remain stagnant or struggle more.

    “...the 1% who are dictating our lives through capitalism and the effects of capitalism. But...impoverished people...nothing has changed. In fact, it's probably gotten worse.” (Robinson, 31:13)

  • Wage stagnation, rising rent, food costs, and healthcare erode living standards.

b. Lived Experiences of Poverty

• Intersections With Housing, Nutrition, and Health
  • Inadequate wages lead to precarious housing and reliance on cheap, unhealthy food (e.g., fast food dollar menus).

    “If your wages aren't going up at the same rate as rent, you find yourself in a precarious housing situation...Your eating habits start to become bad ones...” (Robinson, 32:57)

  • Poor dietary choices are driven by necessity and lead to cascading health problems.

c. Systemic and Historical Causes

• Structural Exclusion and Wealth Gaps
  • Robinson ties poverty to America’s history of racial exclusion and exploitative laws.

    “People have been...closed out of a system. You have a system that is working against you...There are laws necessarily created that don't work for you. They work against you.” (Robinson, 34:46)

  • Current economic arrangements continue to benefit a small elite at the expense of the majority.

d. Capitalism’s Self-Destructive Path

• Short-term Profits, Long-term Instability

  • Accumulation for its own sake pushes the masses towards radicalism.

    “That hunt comes without any compassion for your fellow man at all. It's about me. It's individualistic, it's more that I can accumulate...That's the course we're on.” (Robinson, 38:07)

• Emergence of Resistance

  • Growing “groundswell” of opposition, with Occupy movement cited as a mobilizing—not just theoretical—force.

    “One thing Occupy...gave us a broad economic umbrella of which to organize ourselves under.” (Robinson, 39:24)

e. Culture of Blame and Social Clashes

• Stigma Against the Poor

  • The myth of the “undeserving poor” still shapes American responses to homelessness and poverty.

    “We've always painted this picture of homelessness in this country: You're homeless because you don't want to work...What about a system that has no compassion, that keeps cutting back on things like food stamps and welfare?” (Robinson, 42:05)

• Historical “Social Clashes”

  • Drawing parallels between the Civil War, Civil Rights era, and current tensions over housing and economic rights.

f. Poverty, Instability, and Global Parallels

• Business Cycles and Continuous Dislocation

  • Wolff underscores the cruelty of a system with built-in periodic destruction of livelihoods.

    “This is a system that periodically destroys people's careers and lives...to be then surprised that such a person has a hard time managing and then blaming the person is a bizarre logic.” (Wolff, 45:16)

• International Comparisons: Brazil, Spain, Greece, Japan

  • Same patterns of inequality, austerity, and rising discontent visible internationally.

    “Brazil is supposed to be going through this great economy at one point, but now there's a downturn. Right. Folks are struggling in Brazil...homelessness is at record numbers. So it's replicating itself. Right. And that's, again, the results of capitalism.” (Robinson, 47:59)

g. Poverty in U.S. Politics ([51:21])

• Election 2016: Poverty on the Agenda

  • Bernie Sanders positioned as the true progressive voice; other candidates represent entrenched interests.

    “I think Bernie is the hope for the future. He may not win this election, but he has people mobilized and organized and thinking differently.” (Robinson, 51:21)

• Disillusionment and Cynicism

  • Clinton or any incoming administration will face a deeply polarized and mistrustful public.

h. The Importance of Critical Education

• Changing Perspectives

  • Robinson credits personal transformation to education and exposure to new ideas.

    “Education was important for me even late in my life...so when you talk socialism, people would say that's communism.” (Robinson, 55:56)

• Cultural Barriers to Systems Change

  • Socialism remains misunderstood and stigmatized in many communities—education and consciousness-raising seen as crucial.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-------------|-----------------|---------| | 01:04 | Wolff | “It indicates our economy is not going very well...businessmen and women are telling us...there's no point in producing more goods and services when there's no one out there who can afford to buy them.” | | 06:15 | Wolff | “When the money wants Benjamin Franklin, well, the money gets Benjamin Franklin.” | | 09:55 | Wetzel (read by Wolff) | “The number of athletic department employ making six figures went from 30 to 81.” | | 15:46 | Wolff | “Capitalist corporations are profitable seeking institutions...they will sacrifice everything, lives, health, air, you name it.” | | 31:13 | Robinson | “For those mired in poverty all their lives, nothing has changed. In fact, it's probably gotten worse.” | | 32:57 | Robinson | “If your wages aren't going up at the same rate as rent, you find yourself in a precarious housing situation...Your eating habits start to become bad ones...” | | 34:46 | Robinson | “...you have a system that is working against you...There are laws necessarily created that don't work for you. They work against you.” | | 38:07 | Robinson | “That hunt comes without any compassion for your fellow man at all. It's about me. It's individualistic, it's more that I can accumulate.” | | 45:16 | Wolff | “This is a system that periodically destroys people's careers and lives...to be then surprised that such a person has a hard time managing and then blaming the person is a bizarre logic.” | | 51:21 | Robinson | “I think Bernie is the hope for the future. He may not win this election, but he has people mobilized and organized and thinking differently.” |

Important Segments with Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------|-----------| | Interest Rate Policy & Economic Growth | 00:00 | | Yale, Donors, and University Naming Rights | 03:00 | | Economics of College Athletics | 07:30 | | Auto Industry Scandals | 12:30 | | Chobani Profit Sharing & Worker Co-ops | 16:00 | | Marxist-Catholic Dialogue | 20:00 | | Listener Questions: Co-ops & Gentrification| 25:00 | | Interview with Rob Robinson begins | 29:00 | | Poverty vs “Recovery” | 31:11 | | Lived Realities of Poverty | 32:57 | | Historical Roots and Systemic Critique | 34:46 | | Self-Destructive Inequality & Radicalism | 38:07 | | The Persistence & Stigma of Poverty | 42:05 | | Global Perspective on Poverty | 47:59 | | The 2016 Election and Poverty | 51:21 | | Education and Social Change | 55:02 |

Conclusion

This episode offers a trenchant critique of mainstream economic narratives, connecting macroeconomic statistics to the everyday realities of poverty. It unveils how inequality perpetuates itself through institutions, policy choices, and cultural stigma, while highlighting the groundswell of resistance and the potential for alternative economic models such as worker cooperatives.

Richard D. Wolff and Rob Robinson urge listeners not only to question the status quo, but to seek solidarity, education, and systemic transformation.

[End of Summary]