Economic Update: Public Policy, Private Pain

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Host: Richard D. Wolff, Democracy at Work
Guest: Dr. Harriet Fraad
Air Date: October 4, 2018

Episode Overview

In this episode, Richard D. Wolff explores the intersection between public policy and the everyday struggles and pain experienced by ordinary people. He examines how government decisions, particularly those related to health care, labor, and trade policy, create private suffering amidst booming profits for corporations. In the second half, guest Dr. Harriet Fraad joins to discuss the historical interplay of public policy and family life in the United States, focusing on women’s shifting roles from World War II to the women's liberation movement of the 1970s.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Health Care Inefficiency in the U.S.

[00:10 - 06:50]

Wolff highlights findings from the Bloomberg Health Efficiency Score, which ranked the U.S. among the least efficient health care systems worldwide.
- The U.S. spends the second highest amount per person on health care ($9,536), yet outcomes lag behind top-ranked countries like Switzerland.
- Life expectancy in Switzerland is 4.2 years longer than in the U.S.
- The American reliance on a market-based, private health care system contributes to high costs and poor results.
Memorable Quote:
- "We are among the least efficient countries in health care. Why is that? Because the outcomes in American health are poor and the cost astronomical. And why is that? Because we have a private health care system." — Richard Wolff [04:25]

2. Labor Movements and Inequality in Poland

[06:50 - 09:00]

Discusses a large-scale march by 15,000 workers in Warsaw, Poland.
- The protest targeted income inequality: "growth" has mostly benefited the richest 10%.
- Unions demanded fairer distribution of wealth, signaling a return to a broader social justice agenda.
Insight:
- Labor movements can act beyond narrow interests, advocating systemic change and greater democracy in wealth distribution.
Quote:
- "We help to produce the profits, we get a say in distributing them. I urge everyone to think long and hard about a labor movement that goes in that direction. Bravo for a long overdue demand." — Richard Wolff [08:45]

3. Money in Politics: The Duluth News Tribune Policy

[09:00 - 10:40]

The Duluth News Tribune’s new policy requires payment to publish letters endorsing political candidates.
- Wolff argues this further undermines democracy by enabling money to determine political speech and publicity.
Quote:
- "Politics is corrupted when money plays that role. Money shouldn't determine whether you get your notice in the paper or anything else. That's no basis for a democratic politics." — Richard Wolff [10:22]

4. U.S.-China Trade Tensions and Auto Industry Fallout

[10:40 - 15:27]

Critiques President Trump’s tariffs on China and the downstream consequences for American carmakers.
- Tariffs have driven China to forge new, lucrative deals with German automakers (Volkswagen, BMW, Daimler) and others.
- China's edge in developing driverless car technology is supported by new city infrastructure, unlike the U.S.
- The U.S. risks long-term economic damage and loss of future market leadership.
Quote:
- "The United States will be paying for a long time for the political posturing of the Trump administration. And the sooner we understand that, the sooner something maybe will be done about it." — Richard Wolff [14:55]

Featured Interview: Dr. Harriet Fraad—Public Policy, Private Pain

[16:00 - 28:08]

Framing the Issue

Wolff asks Dr. Harriet Fraad to explain her thesis: Public policy often supports profits at the expense of family and household wellbeing, yet those same policymakers often portray themselves as family defenders [16:04].
- Dr. Fraad describes how this contradiction is embedded throughout modern U.S. history.

Historical Shifts and Their Impacts

a. World War II: Women in the Workforce [17:42 - 22:06]

Public Policy: Men drafted; women heavily recruited to factories, supported by massive propaganda ("Rosie the Riveter").
Support: Minimal; underdeveloped child care, no systemic family support.
Private Consequences:
- Serious strain on women and families—chemical hazards in factories; exhaustion; emotional and physical toll.
- Epidemic of psychogenic tuberculosis among women; family dislocation as children were boarded out.
Quote:
- "They did not look at what this costs... They came home exhausted from their physically tiring jobs to needy kids and no childcare...huge dislocation for children." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [20:31]

b. Post-War Reversal: Women Back to the Home [22:06 - 25:27]

Public Policy: Propaganda shifted to push women out of jobs to make way for returning men; GI benefits denied to female veterans.
Economic Outcomes: Corporate profits soared; women's newfound independence reversed.
Private Consequences:
- Emotional distress, unemployment or underemployment for women; forced dependence on potentially unstable family situations; lower pay ("$0.59 on the dollar").
- Emergence of "emotional divorces" and widespread familial unhappiness.
Quote:
- "After pulling women out of the household into the workplace, [they] now pushed them back...pushed into dependence on men, which may not work out." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [24:02]

c. 1960s-1970s: Women's Liberation [25:27 - 28:08]

Context: Experiencing the whiplash of changing roles, a generation of women rebelled against being confined again.
- 1963: Betty Friedan’s The Feminine Mystique frames a "problem that has no name."
- 1968: First women's liberation publications emerge; young women seek more fulfilling lives.
Quote:
- "Instead of yes, we can, it was no, you can't. And those jobs that they still were in...were so low paid they couldn't support themselves." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [27:15]

Notable Quotes & Moments

"We are among the least efficient countries in health care. Why is that?...Because we have a private health care system." — Richard Wolff [04:25]
"We help to produce the profits, we get a say in distributing them. I urge everyone to think long and hard about a labor movement that goes in that direction." — Richard Wolff [08:45]
"Politics is corrupted when money plays that role...That's no basis for a democratic politics." — Richard Wolff [10:22]
"The United States will be paying for a long time for the political posturing of the Trump administration." — Richard Wolff [14:55]
"They did not look at what this costs...huge dislocation for children." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [20:31]
"After pulling women out of the household into the workplace, [they] now pushed them back...pushed into dependence on men, which may not work out." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [24:02]
"Instead of yes, we can, it was no, you can't." — Dr. Harriet Fraad [27:15]

Important Timestamps

[00:10-06:50]: U.S. health care inefficiency and the Bloomberg Health Index results
[06:50-09:00]: Poland labor protest and distribution of economic growth
[09:00-10:40]: Money and influence in politics—Duluth News Tribune
[10:40-15:27]: U.S.-China tariffs and impact on the auto industry
[16:00-28:08]: Dr. Harriet Fraad on public policy’s private costs, WWII to the 1970s

Tone and Style

Richard D. Wolff’s tone is critical, analytical, and impassioned, directly connecting macroeconomic policy to real-life consequences. Dr. Harriet Fraad brings a historical and psychological dimension, unpacking how big-picture policies translate into intimate pain, especially for women and families. Both use vivid historical examples and memorable phrases, arguing for systemic change and more equitable policy considerations.

This summary captures the central themes and arguments of the episode, highlighting essential quotes and structuring the flow of the discussion for easy reference and deeper understanding.

Transcript

A (0:10)

Welcome friends, to another edition of Economic Update, a weekly program devoted to the economic dimensions of our lives. Jobs, debts, incomes, ours and our children's. I'm your host, Richard Wolff. I've been a professor of economics all my adult life and I think that has prepared me to offer you these economic updates. I want to begin today with a remarkable story that appeared on 19 September issued by the Bloomberg News Service. That's a pro business business operation, part of the Bloomberg empire. What made Michael Bloomberg a billionaire. And the story was by Lee Miller and Wei Lu Lu and the authors. The report that they offer are the results of the Bloomberg Health Index. This is what they call the Bloomberg Health Efficiency Score. They look at health care in 200 countries. How is it doing? What are the results in the quality of the health of the people? What does it cost to provide them with health care? In a word, how efficient is health care in these countries? And here are the results, so stunning that I wanted to begin the program with it. The United States spends the second highest amount of money in the world on Health Care. $9,536 per person. Wow. But I said we're number two. Who's number one? Switzerland. Yet Switzerland scores much higher than the United States. Why? Because in Switzerland, the average length of life is 4.2 years longer than in the United States. And if you're measuring efficiency of health care, you measure what it costs to get it and what it delivers in the way of the service called health. When you look at all the numbers, here's what you get. And I'm going to quote from the Bloomberg article because it is so remarkable to see that in a business pro business study of health care. Here we go. And I'll read it to us. Health system ranked among the least efficient in the world before and during the first year of Obamacare. Wow. We are among the least efficient countries in health care. Why is that? Because the outcomes in American health are poor and the cost astronomical. And why is that? Because we have a private health care system. We basically provide health care in a market mechanism. The more money you have, the better health care you can purchase. The less money you have, the less quality or quantity of health care you can afford. And the result of a private health care system, much more private than in any of the countries that are more efficient than we are, is the result that the Bloomberg survey shows we allow in the United States for a medical industrial complex, doctors, hospitals, drug and device company makers and medical insurance companies to work a system that squeezes US for payments and delivers to us very mediocre results. That the American people permit this, that we are the least efficient healthcare provider in the world by many of these standards, is stunning. It speaks louder than anything. Further, I could say my next update has to do with Poland and In particularly on 22nd September, a huge march of 15,000 workers through downtown Warsaw, Poland. I wouldn't bring this up if it were just another strike, but Poland has played an interesting role in modern history. It's often been a weather vane for changes that then would spread and show up in many other countries. So maybe what I'm about to describe is the beginning of something. The demonstration in Warsaw was not just about better wages, better working conditions. The demand there was very specific. Here is what it Poland, the demonstrators said, has been showing good economic growth. Growth. But the benefits of that growth have gone to the richest 10% of the Polish people, leaving everybody out. And the argument of the workers was, we all helped to produce this rising wealth. Why are we excluded from distributing its benefits? In other words, the union was mobilizing its people not just for the members of the union, not just for the immediate benefit of the union and the workers there, but for the vast majority of the people. The union was becoming what it had once been, the leading force demanding and pointing the way to fundamental social change. It's a whole new world. If the justice, the notion of social and economic justice says that the mass of people want to be involved in deciding how wealth that has been created by everybody is distributed in capitalist systems, that decision is left to the capitalists, a tiny minority. They decide what, what to do with the profits, who to give them to, what to use them for. What those Polish workers were saying was, no, no, no, no, no. We help to produce the profits, we get a say in distributing them. I urge everyone to think long and hard about a labor movement that goes in that direction. Bravo for a long overdue demand. My next update is quick, short and blunt. The Duluth, Minnesota News Tribune adopted a new policy. If you write a letter to the editor endorsing one or another candidate, you have to do something you didn't have to do before. You have to pay the newspaper. Letters to the editor used to be free. Newspapers offered that as a public service to let people air their thoughts. Well, you can still do it for free if you have a thought about an issue, but you can't do it if you have a thought about a candidate. Why? Because the newspaper said campaigns were organizing supporters to send lots of letters in so they could get free publicity. Well, the answer to that is to understand that politics is corrupted when money plays that role. Money shouldn't determine whether you get your notice in the paper or anything else. That's no basis for a democratic politics. That's a basis for a capitalist politics, for a market politics, for getting the best government money can buy. Wrong solution. Duluth, Minnesota News Tribune. You should have started campaigning to get money out of politics. Final update for today. President Trump is posturing as usual by hitting the Chinese with tariffs. Oh, we're going to punish the Chinese. They are cheating, they are stealing our technology, all kinds of charges. And I'm the big president who's going to do something about about it. And so there are tariffs and among other things, tariffs on cars. And I just wanted to suggest that people think through in a way, clearly the president and his advisors don't what some of the consequences are. And I thought I'd bring one set to your attention. The tariffs on cars and car parts hit a Peak on July 9. Some people have begun to say it was the end of the US auto industry July 9th. You might have missed it. Let me explain. China is not going to deal with the United States anymore. The tariffs are hurting China. No question about it. They don't want to face problems with the United States. So guess what? The Chinese are cutting deals, big ones with Volkswagen, BMW, Daimler, basf, Siemens. I'm mentioning huge German companies that are rushing in to fill the orders that the Chinese will no longer place with American companies to avoid all the tariff problems. Well, China is already. So let me explain. A leader in driverless cars in all of that kind of technology. Americans are having terrible trouble trying to figure out how to have a driverless car navigate the way our cities are built. Chinese are going about it completely different. They're building cities in such a way that there will be passageways through them that are separated from passengers on foot and from people so that the driverless car is not a safety problem, etc. They're way ahead of the United States. They are the future and they are also the biggest market. So for the German companies, this is an unbelievable advantage over the American. And you can be sure that the French and the Japanese and the British are right in there cutting their deals with the Chinese as well. The United States will be paying for a long time for the political posturing of the Trump administration. And the sooner we understand that, the sooner something maybe will be done. Bout it. Well, we've come to the end of the first half of economic update. It gives me a chance to be a bit more expansive about something we say towards the end of the first half on many programs. Please remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's an enormous source of support and help for everything we do. Likewise, follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Make use of our website democracyatwork.info where you can find out many more things beyond what we do on this program and where you can also find out how to work in any one of the local groups that work with us around the United States and abroad as well. And finally, I want to particularly thank and appreciate the Patreon community. Those of you know that you can find our work@patreon.com economicupdate that community of Patreon provides in its support for what we do, the resources that enable us to do the research, to prepare these programs, to tape them, to produce these shows, which is an enormous work of labor of love, but also of financial Support. And the Patreon.com community provides all of those things. And this is an opportunity for me to express my gratitude. Last point for today. Our economic system is in a moment of extreme crisis. Whether you look at the tensions over the Supreme Court, or the tensions with China that we discussed, or the movement of women in the MeToo movement to fundamentally alter the unfair gendered arrangements of our society, we are going through fundamental change. And one of the goals and purposes of Economic Update is to be relevant to them, to explain them, and to shine lights on on where others might be hesitant to go. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our interview for today's program. Welcome back, friends, to the second half of today's Economic Update. As it is the beginning of a month, we are once again lucky to have with us Dr. Harriet Fraad. She is a practicing mental health counselor and hypnotherapist in New York City. Her work is focused on the intersection between personal life and the larger historical and social conditions of our society. She publishes widely and we usually mention some of the places. But today I am very happy to announce something new. Dr. Frad has agreed to produce and has in fact already produced a podcast, a regular podcast that is called Capitalism Hits Home. Capitalism Hits Home. It explores the impact of the larger economic and social changes around us on our personal and intimate lives. These podcasts are available, that is the podcast called Capitalism Hits Home on Apple, Podcasts, on Google Play, and of course on our website democracyatwork.info I strongly urge you to take advantage of the extended analyses and presentations Dr. Frad offers on her podcast, Capitalism Hits Home. Welcome to today's program.