Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: Seattle Firm Converts to a Worker Co-op
Date: November 29, 2018

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Richard D. Wolff analyzes current events through a critical economic lens, focusing on themes of corporate power, government subsidies, and systemic inequality. The episode culminates in an in-depth interview with Matthias Shiplainer, founder of Seattle’s Metis Construction, which recently converted to a worker cooperative. The discussion centers on the practicalities, challenges, and transformative potential of worker co-ops as alternatives to traditional capitalist enterprises.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Corporate Subsidies: The Amazon HQ2 Controversy (00:10–11:15)

• Wolff critically examines the Amazon “HQ2” bidding war between U.S. cities, highlighting:
  • Massive taxpayer subsidies (over $5.5 billion) granted to Amazon, a highly profitable corporation led by the world’s richest man, Jeff Bezos.
  • Lack of accountability on promised job creation:
    • “Politicians and the corporate leaders throw out whatever number they think will impress the public...there’s no follow up. No one ever knows how many jobs were created, of the type or salary promised.” (03:16)
  • Failure of public officials to condition subsidies on concrete deliverables or penalties for non-performance.
  • Wolff's summary: “Socialization of the costs, privatization of the profits. That’s how American capitalism works.” (06:30)

2. Popular Protest & Public Power: Lessons from France’s ‘Yellow Vest’ Movement (11:16–13:43)

• Wolff discusses the November 2018 mass mobilizations in France protesting high fuel prices:
  • Emphasizes the French tradition of direct action rather than passively waiting for elections.
  • Illustration of government accountability:
    • “Government is there to serve the people, the French insist. And if they don’t, they’re right there in the streets.” (13:17)
  • Critique of the lack of similar action in the U.S.

3. Corporate Bankruptcy & Inequality: The Sears Case (13:44–15:10)

• Criticism of $19 million in bonuses for Sears executives during bankruptcy proceedings while thousands of employees get little or no severance.
  • “When you run a business that way...that’s what you get. While the company’s working, it takes care of the people at the top. And when the company dissolves, it takes care of the people at the top.” (14:40)

4. Drug Prices & Political Reality (15:10–16:23)

• Pfizer announces price increases on 41 drugs despite political promises to reduce drug costs.
  • Wolff notes the ineffectiveness of both rhetoric and regulation:
    • “And right after they announced it, what we got from Mr. Trump was silence.” (16:10)

5. Inequity in Public Services: California Wildfires (16:24–16:47)

• Discussion of wealthy individuals hiring private firefighters, contrasting with underfunded public fire services for everyone else.
  • “The very rich are not relying on the community and the community services... They’re getting their own.” (16:36)

Interview: Metis Construction’s Transition to a Worker Co-op

(16:48–28:30)

Introducing Metis Construction and the Transition (16:48–18:09)

• Matthias Shiplainer recounts founding Metis Construction in 2008 with a group of skilled contractors.
• The co-op conversion process began in 2012 and was completed in 2016.
• Motivation:
  • “It just didn’t make sense, to be honest, to do this any other way.” (17:34)

Why a Worker Co-op? (18:10–19:50)

• Dissatisfaction with the construction industry’s traditional, hierarchical structure.
• Desire for a collaborative, non-hierarchical environment to take on larger projects and enjoy work.
• “We’re craftspeople, we like to build things. We didn’t want to work...for other contractors. I don’t know that any of us had had a really great experience doing that.” – Matthias Shiplainer (19:03)

Business Advantages of Worker Co-ops (19:51–21:09)

• Data-driven advantages: Worker co-ops are more productive and profitable; higher worker retention and lower costs for training/hiring.
  • “Co-ops are more productive, they’re more profitable than traditionally held companies...lower costs in terms of training, lower costs in terms of recruitment.” (20:42)
• Personal fulfillment:
  • “There’s nothing more quintessentially human than the desire to participate in the shaping of the circumstances under which you live and work.” – Matthias Shiplainer (21:09)

Ownership Arrangement – The Worker Trust Model (22:35–24:51)

• Metis Construction is owned by a worker-ownership trust, designed to ensure perpetual worker ownership.
• Profits go primarily to current workers; responsibility to steward the company for future craftspeople.
  • “The trust owns it for the benefit of the workers...the trust provides a way to ensure that that will not happen. If you convert the company, it will stay worker-owned in perpetuity.” – Matthias Shiplainer (24:11, 24:39)
• Unique approach: Ensures company can't be sold off or reconsolidated by any member into private ownership.

Challenges in the Transition (24:52–26:36)

• Retaining necessary industry roles (project manager, lead, carpenter, etc.) but redefining them in non-hierarchical, collaborative terms.
  • “Having those positions doesn’t imply the hierarchy. ...we have a lot of new staff coming in. And so there is a process of enculturation, if you will...” – Matthias Shiplainer (25:52)
• Transition is a long cultural process: “We’ve grown up in a very different system...it’s an ongoing process.” (26:13)

Solutions & Workplace Culture Building (26:37–28:18)

• Emphasis on role rotation to prevent rigid hierarchy buildup (e.g., Shiplainer’s recent shift to hands-on carpentry).
• Instituted “pizza and policy workshops”: Monthly company-wide gatherings where all employees—members and non-members—rewrite workplace policies and vision together.
  • “Once a month the entire company...just rewriting the rules. Basically...that process has been...remarkable.” (27:45–28:18)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Richard Wolff on Amazon subsidies:
  “That’s not a public-private partnership. That’s the private ripping off the public on a grand scale.” (07:24)
• Matthias Shiplainer on human fulfillment:
  “There’s nothing more quintessentially human than the desire to participate in the shaping of the circumstances under which you live and work.” (21:09)
• On acculturation challenges:
  “It’s an ongoing process. To be honest, we’re still really working on building a culture...that part’s been far more challenging than I imagined.” (26:13)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:10 – Opening, Amazon HQ2 analysis, corporate welfare
• 11:16 – France’s ‘Yellow Vest’ protests and government accountability
• 13:44 – Sears bankruptcy, bonuses for executives vs. workers
• 15:10 – Pfizer drug price hikes and political promises
• 16:24 – California wildfires and inequality in public services
• 16:48 – Introduction of Metis Construction interview
• 19:51 – Advantages of worker co-ops (productivity, profitability, retention)
• 23:06 – Metis’ trust ownership model
• 25:15 – Challenges and role of hierarchy in worker co-ops
• 27:45 – Culture-building: “pizza and policy workshops”

Conclusion

This episode uses timely examples—Amazon subsidies, French protests, the Sears collapse, drug pricing, and California wildfires—to interrogate the failures and inequalities of late-stage capitalism. The feature interview provides a tangible, hopeful alternative through the lens of a worker-owned and managed business, offering practical insights, honest reflections, and a model for transforming workplaces and economies alike.