Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Socialism From Past to Future

Date: January 31, 2019
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Podcast: Democracy at Work

Overview

In this episode, economist Richard D. Wolff explores the resurgence and transformation of socialism, particularly within the context of American society. He traces socialism's evolution from the early 20th century, through its repression during the Cold War, and into its renewed contemporary relevance. Wolff distinguishes between historical forms of socialism and the new models emerging in the 21st century, placing particular emphasis on worker control and democratization of the workplace.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Return of Socialism in American Discourse

• Socialism as Capitalism’s Shadow:
  • Wolff opens by asserting that "socialism is becoming an issue again here in the United States" after decades of taboo (00:25).
  • He notes that socialism has historically coexisted alongside capitalism, acting as its “shadow.”
    • Quote:

      "You might think of socialism as capitalism's shadow. You can pretend you can dance around, but you will not get rid of your shadow any more than capitalism will get rid of socialism." (01:07)

• American Socialist History:
  • Early 20th-century America saw robust socialist movements, socialists elected to public office, and socialist leaders like Eugene Victor Debs (03:08).
  • Surprising Fact:

    "What state in the United States had the most socialists elected to the state legislature? ... The state of Oklahoma." (03:42)

• Repression During the Cold War:
  • After WWII, socialism became taboo due to association with the Soviet Union, making criticism of capitalism itself socially unacceptable (05:10).
• Renewed Interest Post-2008:
  • The crash of 2008 and rising inequality reignited discussion and interest in socialism, revitalizing critiques of capitalism (06:25).
  • References Bernie Sanders and the Occupy Wall Street movement as examples of this resurgence (08:15, 10:33).

2. Contemporary Expressions of Socialism

• Young Politicians and New Movements:
  • Politicians like Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Lee Carter openly identify as socialists or use socialist critiques, winning office and changing the national dialogue (09:15).
• Stark Inequality Highlighted:
  • Cites an Oxfam report showing "the richest 26 individuals in the world together have more wealth than the bottom half of the population... roughly 3.8 billion people." (10:52)
    • Quote:

      "The achievement of modern capitalism is to make 26 people richer than 3.8 billion people. That's a level of inequality that's beyond my capacity to properly describe other than to give you the raw numbers." (11:05)

3. Evolution of Socialism—Old vs. New

a. Defining Old Socialism (19th–20th Century)

• Key Criticisms of Capitalism:
  1. Production: Ownership of the means of production by a small minority leads to inequality (14:08).
  2. Distribution: Markets distribute goods and services based on ability to pay, favoring the wealthy (15:15).
  • Socialism offered collective ownership ("socialization of the means of production") and democratic planning as solutions (16:35).
• Paths Diverge: Communism vs. Social Democracy:
  • Post-Russian Revolution, the socialist movement split:
    • Communism: State ownership, planning, suppression of markets (20:08).
    • Social Democracy: Regulated capitalism, markets persist but subject to state intervention (21:30).
  • Quote:

    "Social democracy... let private capitalists still own and run the businesses... but with a heavy dose of government regulation to make it all work out less unequally, to make it work out less unfairly.” (21:48)

b. Problems and Collapse of 20th-Century Models

• Authoritarian State and Resistance:
  • Both models encountered problems by the century’s end. In communist countries, state power became politically problematic; in social democracies, capitalist resistance undermined reforms (23:45).
  • Leads to socialists re-examining:

    "What went wrong? What is it that made the communist countries collapse? What is it that made social democracies begin to go into retreat?" (24:35)

4. The New Socialism: Democratizing the Workplace

• Critical Missing Link:
  • Past socialism changed ownership or markets but did not transform the organization of the workplace.
  • The capitalist structure of “employers” and “employees” persisted even in “socialist” systems (26:20).
• 21st-Century Socialism’s Focus:
  • The new socialism prioritizes democratizing the workplace, advocating worker co-ops where:
    • All workers have one vote.
    • Decisions about what, how, and where to produce, and how to distribute profits, are made democratically (27:15).
    • Quote:

      "To democratize the workplace is what the communist countries didn't do and what the social democracies couldn't do. It's the missing link. It kept capitalism alive in the workplace." (27:43)

• Fundamental Goal:
  • For socialism to realize ideals of liberty, equality, and democracy, “you have to begin by democratizing the base of society, and that's the workplace” (27:02).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the taboo of socialism:

  “For most of the last 70 years of American history, discussing socialism was something most people avoided altogether. And for the few who discussed it, it was usually treated as evil, terrible, threatening, or worse.” (05:12)

• On returning interest in socialism:

  “With the crash of 2008 showing that capitalism continued to be an unstable system...so did the rediscovery of socialism.” (06:31)

• On the limits of past socialism:

  “The lesson to be learned is that they were unsustainable because they didn't have the basis at the ground level of a socialized workplace.” (28:33)

• On the present moment:

  “We are living at a time, therefore, not only of the rediscovery of socialism, but it's the rediscovery of a changing socialism. And that's as important as anything else shaping contemporary history.” (29:04)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:10 – Wolff introduces the resurgence of socialism in American discourse.
• 03:08–04:10 – Historical roots: Eugene Victor Debs, socialist elected officials, and Oklahoma as the state with most socialists.
• 05:10 – The shift in US attitude and suppression of socialist ideas post-WWII.
• 06:25–08:15 – 2008 crisis and return of socialist critique.
• 10:33–12:05 – Bernie Sanders, Occupy Wall Street, inequality statistics from Oxfam.
• 12:40 – Socialism’s fundamental criticism of capitalism.
• 19:00–26:10 – Breakdown of old socialism: communal ownership vs regulated markets, socialism vs communism.
• 26:20 – Identification of the core issue: lack of democratized workplaces.
• 27:15–29:04 – Proposal for 21st-century socialism: worker co-ops and democratizing the workplace.

Conclusion

Richard D. Wolff’s episode situates socialism’s historical resurgence in the context of contemporary crises and generational shifts. He draws a sharp contrast between the socialism of the past—centered on state ownership and redistribution—and a new vision for socialism, anchored in democracy at the level of the workplace itself. By foregrounding worker self-management and direct democratic control, Wolff frames 21st-century socialism both as a critique of capitalism and as a promise for systemic, participatory change.