Economic Update: Standing Up

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Host: Richard D. Wolff (Democracy at Work)
Date: June 7, 2018
Guest (second half): Dr. Harriet Fraad

Episode Overview

This episode examines significant recent developments in global and domestic economics, linking statistics and news items to systemic critiques of capitalism. Topics range from global health trends and labor issues, to the persistence of poverty, corporate influence on politics, and the economic roots of social movements. The second half features a discussion with Dr. Harriet Fraad focusing on the MeToo and Time's Up movements, exploring the intersection of workplace hierarchy, abuse of power, and broader implications for economic and social organization.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. China Surpasses U.S. in Healthy Life Expectancy

[00:15-06:10]

• Bombshell Announcement: WHO reports China's healthy life expectancy now exceeds that of the U.S.: 68.7 years in China vs. 68.5 in the U.S. (2016 figures).
• Insight: Economic inequality is a key determinant—not just wealth, but the gap between rich and poor influences health and longevity.
• Notable quote:
  • “Something about the world economy is signaled when the healthy life expectancy in the People's Republic of China surpasses that in the United States.” — Richard Wolff [03:39]
• Reference: Top 1% in U.S. can expect to live 15 years longer than the bottom 1%.

2. Social Change and Imagining Alternatives

[06:11-08:50]

• Contextualizing the Irish Repeal the 8th (abortion referendum): Unthinkable things (like overturning abortion bans in Ireland) can become possible.
• Challenge: If Ireland can change, can the U.S. consider “unthinkable” reforms like maximum incomes or guaranteed jobs?

3. Unemployment Statistics: A Misleading Indicator

[08:51-21:37]

• Topic: President Trump’s boasts of low U.S. unemployment (3.9%).
• Wolff argues low unemployment is misleading:
  • After crises like 2008, job loss drives people to accept lower-wage, insecure jobs out of desperation, not prosperity.
  • Europe’s public services offer a “floor” during crises; U.S. lacks comparable safety nets.
• Notable quote:
  • “This low unemployment rate is not a sign of economic wellbeing, it’s a sign of the reverse.” — Richard Wolff [19:43]

4. Amazon’s “Quitting Bonus” – The Logic of Worker Commitment

[21:38-23:16]

• Amazon offers $1,000–$5,000 to employees to quit. Most stay, increasing commitment and productivity.
• Wolff posits: What if workers had real ownership and control (as in cooperatives), not just a psychological stake?
• Quote:
  • “Imagine that a worker wasn't given a quitting bonus, but something much better. Equal ownership and equal say in running the business.” — Richard Wolff [22:56]

5. Corporate Negligence: Johnson & Johnson’s Talcum Powder

[23:17-25:31]

• Multiple lawsuits against J&J for selling talcum powder contaminated with asbestos.
• Lawsuits reward millions, but company delays stopping sales.
• Critique: The profit motive in privatized health care delays appropriate actions to protect the public.

6. Economic Activism: Publix and NRA Funding

[25:32-27:34]

• Publix supermarket chain funds pro-NRA politician, sparking student-led die-ins in Florida.
• Public protest led to Publix withdrawing political contributions.
• Lesson: Economic protest can have real effects.

7. Labor Unrest and Protest in France

[27:35-29:06]

• Ongoing French railway and airline strikes met with government hostility.
• French unions quick to respond, invoking the unfairness of blaming unions for isolated violence.
• Quote from Jean-Luc Mélenchon's group likens blaming unions for “black bloc” violence to blaming spectators at a soccer match for rowdy fans.

8. The Poor People’s Campaign: 50 Years Later

[29:07-31:52]

• Comparison of poverty rates:
  • 1968: 12.8%; 2016: 12.7%.
  • Youth (under 18) poverty worse now than in 1968.
  • Elderly poverty improved, offsetting worse rates for all others.
• Critique:
  • “We will not solve poverty… unless and until we deal with having a system that reproduces poverty as efficiently as it produces wealth.” — Richard Wolff [31:43]
• Systemic poverty is a failure of capitalism, not individual politicians.

9. "Race to the Bottom": Corporate Tax Policy

[31:53-33:10]

• Canadian businesses threaten to relocate to the U.S. for lower taxes, demanding Canada match U.S. cuts.
• Warning: This spiral (“race to the bottom”) deprives all countries of revenue for public services, enriching corporations.

10. Fashion as Symbol of Inequality

[33:11-36:22]

• Balenciaga’s outrageous $1,290 shirt illustrates class divide and conspicuous consumption among the ultra-wealthy.
• Fashion world now caters to the top 0.1% as a symptom of deep inequality.

INTERVIEW: Workplace Hierarchy, #MeToo, and Systemic Change

With Dr. Harriet Fraad
[29:09–54:55] (Corresponds to segment timing, actual interview starts at [29:09])

1. #MeToo and Time’s Up: Class and Access

[29:10-32:21]

• #MeToo exposes systemic sexual abuse, but legal recourse is often only for those with resources.
• Supreme Court strikes down class action suits; Time’s Up fund created to assist working-class women (e.g., farmworkers, Walmart employees).
• Quote:
  • “The law is hardly class free. It’s open to those who can afford a decent lawyer.” — Harriet Fraad [31:09]

2. Abuse Beyond Gender—A Hierarchy Problem

[33:33-34:40]

• Sexual harassment not about sex but about power; can affect men under a female boss as well.
• As long as economic survival depends on hierarchical power, abuse will exist.
• Quote:
  • “It’s everywhere because wherever you have a hierarchy… you have abuses on every level, including sexual abuse.” — Harriet Fraad [33:54]

3. The Workplace as a Site for Systemic Abuse

[34:41-41:14]

• Hierarchy gives those above power over survival, inviting all kinds of abuses (race, gender, etc.).
• Cooperative models (e.g., Mondragon, Spain) provide alternatives:
  • Workers address issues collectively, not through individual authority.
  • Firings only in extreme cases and via group consensus.
• “No one has the authority over someone else’s job… Because in a co-op, everyone has an equal voice.” — Harriet Fraad [41:14]

4. Imagining a Democratic Workplace

[42:19-43:19]

• Regular role rotation and collective oversight could reduce abuse.
• Suggestion: #MeToo and Time’s Up advocacy could logically champion cooperatives and democratized workplaces.

5. Barriers to Social Movements in the U.S.

[44:03-47:10]

• American exceptionalism and lack of tradition in collective action dampen social movement progress.
• Recent teachers’ strikes and student protests (e.g., anti-gun violence) show signs of resurgence in collective activism.
• “We can’t do it alone. We’ve got to come together.” — Harriet Fraad [46:21]

6. Intersections: #MeToo, Civil Rights, and Class

[47:10-49:17]

• Ties between women’s resistance to workplace abuse and historic civil rights struggles (e.g., Black Lives Matter).
• Social conditioning (internal policing) as a powerful tool of oppression—changing narrative to empower the abused.
• Quote:
  • “The most powerful policing is internal policing. You teach people that they're not worth it so that they obey because they're shamed from the inside.” — Harriet Fraad [48:29]

7. Beyond Behavior: Challenging the System

[49:17-51:55]

• While behavior change (e.g., holding abusers accountable) is necessary, it’s not sufficient.
• Structural changes—democratizing work and legal access—are essential for real prevention.
• Co-op movement and legal reforms as promising steps.

8. Summary: A Call for Systemic Change

[51:55-54:55]

• To prevent abuse, must dismantle the structures that enable it (hierarchy, profit-driven priorities).
• Movements are “just beginning”; the next step is for them to unite in transformative economic action.
• Quote:
  • “Co-ops are the best economic organization and the most democratic to stop this. But these movements are just beginning.” — Harriet Fraad [54:23]

Memorable Quotes (with Speaker and Timestamp)

• "Something about the world economy is signaled when the healthy life expectancy in the People's Republic of China surpasses that in the United States." — Richard Wolff [03:39]
• "This low unemployment rate is not a sign of economic wellbeing, it's a sign of the reverse." — Richard Wolff [19:43]
• "Imagine that a worker wasn't given a quitting bonus, but something much better. Equal ownership and equal say in running the business." — Richard Wolff [22:56]
• "We will not solve poverty… unless and until we deal with having a system that reproduces poverty as efficiently as it produces wealth." — Richard Wolff [31:43]
• "The law is hardly class free. It’s open to those who can afford a decent lawyer." — Harriet Fraad [31:09]
• "It’s everywhere because wherever you have a hierarchy… you have abuses on every level, including sexual abuse." — Harriet Fraad [33:54]
• "No one has the authority over someone else’s job… Because in a co-op, everyone has an equal voice." — Harriet Fraad [41:14]
• "The most powerful policing is internal policing. You teach people that they're not worth it so that they obey because they're shamed from the inside." — Harriet Fraad [48:29]
• “Co-ops are the best economic organization and the most democratic to stop this. But these movements are just beginning.” — Harriet Fraad [54:23]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:15] WHO report and China’s healthy life expectancy
• [06:11] Social change: Ireland’s abortion vote and imagining new economic policies
• [08:51] Unemployment figures and structural critique of capitalism
• [21:38] Amazon’s quitting bonus and the case for worker ownership
• [23:17] Johnson & Johnson talcum powder lawsuits
• [25:32] Publix, NRA funding, and economic activism
• [27:35] French strikes and union-government standoffs
• [29:07] Poverty: Poor People’s Campaign, historic comparison
• [31:53] Race to the Bottom, Canada-US business tax policy
• [33:11] High fashion as an indicator of wealth inequality
• [29:09–54:55] Dr. Harriet Fraad interview, #MeToo, workplace democracy, systemic solutions

Tone and Style

• Wolff: Direct, critical, occasionally mordant and wry.
• Fraad: Analytical, empathetic, focused on power dynamics and collective solutions.

Closing Thoughts

This episode draws a clear link between headline economic news and the underlying systems that perpetuate inequality, unstable work, powerless labor, and ongoing abuse of power—whether in health outcomes, job security, corporate influence, or worker dignity. In dialogue with Dr. Fraad, Wolff makes the case that only systemic transformation—towards workplace democracy, robust social movements, and legal equality—can fundamentally address these abuses and offer a path forward for economic justice.

For further resources on alternatives and economic democracy, listeners are encouraged to visit Democracy at Work and Dr. Fraad’s websites.