Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Trump Explained
Date: November 11, 2016

Overview

In this post-2016 election episode, economist Richard D. Wolff analyzes the economic roots of Donald Trump’s electoral victory, arguing that decades of capitalist dynamics set the stage for widespread working-class discontent. He critically dissects how economic shifts—automation, relocation, rising inequality, and the betrayal of populist promises—created fertile ground for voters to embrace an "outsider" like Trump. In the second half, Wolff hosts sociologist Dario Azzellini to explore the history, potential, and contemporary relevance of worker cooperatives as alternatives to capitalism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Economic Roots of Trump’s Victory (00:50 - 27:29)

• Capitalism’s 40-Year Syndrome
  Wolff identifies automation and offshoring/relocation as twin forces that devastated American workers, especially since the 1970s:

  “Over the last 40 years, capitalism has delivered a body blow to the working classes of the United States... The gap between rich and poor has grown back to the proportions it had at the end of the 19th century. It is an ugly economic landscape.” (04:47)

• Broken Promises and Disenchantment
  Every presidential candidate claimed to be a harbinger of ‘change,’ but none addressed the root economic system:

  “With each one that was elected, because he might be different, we have the same. The promise betrayed. The different candidate turned out not to be so different at all.” (10:30)

• Why Trump Was 'Different'
  Trump’s outsider persona and populist rhetoric appeared more authentic than Clinton’s establishment profile:

  “Mr. Trump, therefore, could capture, if he did it right, the mantle of ‘I’m really different.’ And that’s what he did, and he did it well.” (12:14)

• Trump vs. Clinton and Sanders
  Clinton’s deep establishment ties hurt her; Sanders, uniquely, may have posed a genuine ‘different’ choice:

  “He might have had a much harder time with Bernie Sanders, because Bernie Sanders...is captured by his willingness to take the word ‘socialist’ as a description of himself. That sure makes you different.” (15:45)

• Misattributing the Vote
  Wolff challenges simplistic explanations centered on racism or sexism, instead highlighting economic anger:

  “Their anger isn’t about their support for either racism or sexism. Their anger is about a capitalist system that has not served them well for nearly half a century.” (20:42)

• The Limits of Trump’s 'Change' and Systemic Momentum
  Wolff asserts that Trump, like Obama and predecessors, will be contained by the same capitalist system:

  “There is very little reason to believe that a billionaire real estate dealer…is a likely candidate to change this economic system. He’s done very well in it.” (22:53)

• Historical Parallel: Fascism and the Establishment
  Even authoritarian leaders strike bargains with the capitalist status quo:

  “Hitler and Mussolini…came to power on mass movements… Yet they too had to come and make their peace with the capitalist establishment of those two countries.” (24:36)

• Outlook: Hard Times Ahead
  Wolff predicts continued suffering and betrayal of working class hopes:

  “What Mr. Trump has said he would do will damage the lives of millions...but able to change the capitalist system? I don’t think so.” (26:15)

Memorable Moment:

Wolff quotes Bob Dylan to convey the depth and persistence of American disillusionment:

“But I'll know my song well before I start singing and it's a hard, It's a hard, It's a hard, It's a hard rain that's going to fall.” (27:10)

2. Debunking Corporate Tax Myths (28:12 - 30:05)

• Wolff refutes bipartisan claims that lowering corporate taxes will spur growth:
  • U.S. corporations already pay a lower effective tax rate (26-27%) aligned with international averages due to deductions.
  • Much "offshore" corporate money is already accessible domestically and did not lead to job growth when repatriated under earlier tax holidays.

  "So that argument is shown to be a fake...You don't change capitalism by changing the rules and regulations. You got to change the system." (29:41)

3. Worker Cooperatives as Systemic Alternative (30:05 - 56:17)

Introduction to Worker Co-ops

Wolff shifts focus to alternatives, interviewing Dr. Dario Azzellini about the cooperative movement:

“Worker cooperatives...the notion that there has always been and there is now an alternative to a capitalist way of organizing...production.” (30:20)

History and Modern Examples of Worker Control (33:38 - 41:10)

• Long-standing Historical Roots
  Cooperative forms predate hierarchical capitalism; workers have repeatedly taken over production during crises:

  “Cooperatives are obviously much older than any hierarchical work because it used to be the normal form to work together…” — Dario Azzellini (34:12)

• Modern Success Stories

  • Viome (Greece): 27 workers took over a chemical factory, switched to organic products, and eliminated distributor markups to keep prices low. (36:37)
  • Argentina: Around 20,000 workers in 360 recovered, worker-run enterprises across sectors. (38:12)
  • Widespread across Latin America and Southern Europe; a surge of small community co-ops has occurred especially since the 2008 crisis. (39:43-41:25)

Enterprise Democracy & Community Economics (41:25 - 49:28)

• Worker control fosters personal investment, innovation, and healthier workplaces:

  “It’s such a relief for many people that even earning a little bit less, it’s worth doing if you don’t have to be, you know, if you don’t have anxiety the whole time, if you don’t have someone controlling you.” — Dario Azzellini (42:04)

• Democracy extends beyond workshops, seeking integration with community needs:

  “...the same group of workers relate in some cooperative and democratic way with the communities, the residential communities that they impact…” — Wolff (48:59)

Challenges and Values in Cooperative Expansion (46:15 - 53:46)

• Barriers to Scale
  Co-ops grow more slowly as they reject exploitation and don't serve private capital; successful ones face co-optation or buyouts.
• Risks of 'Fake' Co-ops
  Caution needed to prevent capitalist or criminal appropriation of the cooperative model, emphasizing authentic community values.
• Networked Solidarity Essential
  Building “commodity chains” of co-ops sustains and scales the model (e.g., the Mondragón Corporation model, Argentina’s co-ops trading with each other).

Prospects for Worker Co-op Growth (50:46 - 56:17)

• Consumers show willingness to support co-op products, especially when linked to community well-being.

  “Wouldn’t you buy this stuff if you know it’s a company and you saved the workers and family’s life in your hometown?” — Dario Azzellini (52:51)

• Building out networks and linking production to community needs are keys to survival and scaling.
• Worker co-ops seen as source of a new, “socialism from below”—offering economic democracy and the possibility of systemic change.

Why Pursue Worker Co-ops?

“Taking control of the own labor is important in so many ways...it creates different values...the capitalist system is destroying not only people and families and countries, but the whole world. So what we need is an economic system that is based on the self-determination and self-management of people and communities.” — Dario Azzellini (55:02)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the root cause of American discontent:
  “The name of the problem is capitalism, the economic system that governs the United States…” — Richard Wolff (01:48)
• On electoral cynicism:
  “With each one that was elected… The different candidate turned out not to be so different at all.” — Richard Wolff (10:30)
• On the ‘change’ motif in elections:
  “Here we have another candidate promising change, giving hope to the mass of the working class that maybe, just maybe, change is coming.” — Richard Wolff (14:55)
• On the limits of presidential power:
  “The system dictates to the politicians, not the other way around.” — Richard Wolff (17:27)
• On worker control historically:
  “Cooperatives are obviously much older than any hierarchical work because it used to be the normal form to work together.” — Dario Azzellini (34:12)
• On co-op values:
  “There’s a whole set of values and ideas about how to work, how to fit in your community and et cetera, that goes with the cooperatives.” — Dario Azzellini (48:27)
• On worker co-ops and system change:
  “If you work in corporates that are…connected to communities…this network is socialism.” — Dario Azzellini (43:23)

Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | |-----------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:50 – 27:29 | Wolff on Trump’s victory and the economics of political ‘change’ | | 28:12 – 30:05 | Corporate tax myth debunked | | 30:05 – 56:17 | Interview with Dario Azzellini on worker co-ops (history, examples, values, challenges) | | 36:37, 38:12 | Real-world cases: Viome (Greece), Argentina co-ops | | 43:23, 48:27, 55:02 | Defining worker co-op values, relationship to socialism, call to action |

Takeaway

Wolff’s analysis roots Trump’s rise in deep, overlooked economic dynamics of capitalism—a system that, despite repeated populist promises from both parties, remains unchanged and damaging to the majority. The interview with Dario Azzellini suggests that true economic democracy and systemic change may come from building and supporting worker cooperatives—locally, democratically, and networked within their communities—not from top-down reform or establishment politics.

Further Reading / Resources:

• democracyatwork.info
• rdwolff.com
• workerscontrol.net