Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Venezuela
Date: April 11, 2019

Overview

This episode of Economic Update explores the multifaceted economic and political crisis in Venezuela, focusing on the interplay between U.S. intervention, homegrown mobilization, and the broader legacy of oil wealth and inequality. Host Richard D. Wolff opens with economic updates in the U.S. before dedicating the main segment to a deep discussion with political scientist Professor George Ciccariello-Maher, examining the history and persistence of the Chavista movement in Venezuela, international reactions, and what the crisis shows about global attitudes toward socialism and capitalism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Opening Economic Commentary (00:10–15:55)

• Distraction from Core Economic Issues in the U.S. & UK:

  • Wolff draws a parallel between Britain’s Brexit debate and U.S. “Russiagate”—both as distractions from the fundamental failures of capitalism post-2008 crash.
    • “They needed to distract the mass of people from the obvious problem, the fundamental problem of their economic system.” (01:23)

• Chicago’s Labor Struggles:

  • Praise for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra strike and how they resisted pension cuts and stagnant wages by organizing with other labor groups, notably forging alliances between musicians and university workers.
  • “Something is happening in Chicago which used to go by the name class struggle. How interesting.” (04:45)

• Legislation Against Wage Theft in Chicago:

  • The City Council's move to criminalize wage theft, especially significant for immigrant workers, standing in contrast to anti-labor measures in states like Florida.

• Structural Inequality in U.S. Education:

  • Stanford study finds poor students systematically lag 3–6 years behind wealthier peers, debunking the idea of “meritocracy.”
    • “How well you do on tests has been now measured by Stanford, and it is shaped not by what you know, but by the circumstances in which you grow up...” (08:08)

• Green New Deal & Medicare for All – The Pushback:

  • Wolff criticizes claims these proposals are too expensive, noting hypocrisy since massive bank bailouts faced little congressional opposition.
  • “The issue of expense was not relevant to the important thing of bailing out rich corporations and their shareholders. How come that doesn't apply to the Green New Deal? How come it doesn't apply to Medicare for All?” (09:10)

• Conditionality in Social Welfare:

  • Criticism of states seeking to make Medicaid conditional on work, comparing it to unconditional benefits provided to corporations and religious institutions.
  • “The only reason we do that to poor people is because we want to punish them. That's the attitude...” (12:27)

II. Main Segment: Interview with Prof. George Ciccariello-Maher on Venezuela (15:55–28:35)

a. Historical Context of Chavismo (16:10–17:57)

• The roots of Venezuela’s current crisis go back over a century, centering on oil wealth that failed to uplift the general population—culminating in the explosion of the Caracazo riots (1989), which set the stage for Hugo Chávez and the Bolivarian Revolution.
  • “You have to go further back than those 20 years... that oil money was not reaching the Venezuelan people.” (16:18, Ciccariello-Maher)

b. U.S. & Opposition Efforts to Overthrow Chavismo (17:00–19:18)

• Both U.S. parties have long sought to unseat the Chavista government, but repeated efforts have been thwarted by massive grassroots mobilization.
  • “This is a bipartisan effort... yet you have this resilience, which is very inexplicable if you look at just historically.” (17:57, Ciccariello-Maher)
  • Chavez’s 2002 coup reversal relied on ordinary citizens mobilizing en masse to demand his return.

c. Key to Chavista Resilience: Mobilization & Participation (19:19–21:35)

• Major difference between Venezuela and other Latin American left governments is sustained popular mobilization and grassroots political participation.
  • Programs dramatically improved healthcare, education, and reduced poverty, but more crucial was the creation of local councils for direct democratic decision-making.
  • “More important than that was political participation, the establishment of direct local councils where people could participate and engage in political life.” (20:16, Ciccariello-Maher)

d. The Ongoing Tension: Centralization vs. Grassroots Power (21:36–22:55)

• Real but tension-filled attempts at devolving power downward, with grassroots sectors pushing the government to fulfill decentralizing promises even as the traditional state apparatus resists.
  • “Radical sectors of Chavismo often struggle against conservative sectors of the government, but they're pushing for a vision that even Chavez himself had endorsed.” (22:55, Ciccariello-Maher)

e. Regional and Global Context (23:23–25:28)

• The Pink Tide (left-wing governments) of Latin America provided a supportive context; recent regional shifts to the right and U.S. interference erode this, isolating Venezuela.
  • “Support for that experiment has been disintegrating regionally in no small part due to U.S. interference.” (24:20, Ciccariello-Maher)

f. “Socialism Doesn’t Work”?—Countering U.S. Narratives (25:29–26:50)

• U.S. leaders depict Venezuelan troubles as proof that “socialism doesn’t work,” a claim Ciccariello-Maher refutes: Venezuela remains fundamentally capitalist, only experimenting with reforms that global capitalism aggressively undermines.
  • “Venezuela is not a socialist country... What you're witnessing is an actual war between different ways of arranging a society. And that war is brutal.” (25:50, Ciccariello-Maher)
  • Double standards abound; similar crises elsewhere are not blamed on “capitalism.”

g. The Impact of Sanctions and Future Outlook (27:23–28:35)

• U.S. sanctions have deepened Venezuela’s crisis, especially by targeting oil exports. The strategy is to worsen conditions, prompting regime change from within.
  • “The wager of the United States... is that if we make things bad enough, people will overthrow Maduro themselves. That is their strategy.” (27:49, Ciccariello-Maher)
• Despite hardships, there are signs ordinary Venezuelans remain mobilized and resistant.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Richard D. Wolff:

  • “They needed to distract the mass of people from the obvious problem, fundamental problem of their economic system.” (01:23)
  • “Something is happening in Chicago which used to go by the name class struggle. How interesting.” (04:45)

• George Ciccariello-Maher:

  • “Chavismo is the fruit of movement struggles... It was an individual who was the expression of revolutionary movements.” (16:50)
  • “What existed for a number of years was a productive dynamic where grassroots sectors could mobilize... and push for a much more radical vision of society.” (21:35)
  • “Venezuela is not a socialist country... What you're witnessing is an actual war between different ways of arranging a society. And that war is brutal.” (25:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10 – Economic parallels between U.S. and UK post-2008 crash
• 03:30 – Chicago Symphony Orchestra strike and class struggle
• 06:55 – Wage theft legislation in Chicago
• 08:00 – Stanford study on educational inequality and the myth of meritocracy
• 09:10 – Green New Deal, Medicare for All, and the question of expense
• 12:10 – Critique of Medicaid work requirements and social welfare hypocrisy
• 15:55 – Introduction to Prof. George Ciccariello-Maher and Venezuela focus
• 16:10 – Historical background: roots of Chavismo
• 17:57 – Why Chavismo/Bolivarian movement has survived external/internal attacks
• 19:19 – Role of grassroots mobilization and public participation
• 21:36 – Struggles over power devolution from state to grassroots
• 23:23 – Regional context: Pink Tide, rightward shift, and U.S. interference
• 25:29 – U.S. narrative: “Socialism doesn’t work”
• 27:23 – The impact of sanctions and future prospects for Venezuela

Tone and Language

• Academic yet direct; critical of both U.S. domestic policy and foreign interventionism.
• Sober, respectful analysis—deliberate avoidance of hyperbole except when exposing media or political hypocrisy.
• Dialogic and explanatory, designed to make complex issues accessible for listeners.

Final Remarks

This episode is a concise, insightful exploration of Venezuela’s crisis within the wider currents of global economics and political struggle. It challenges dominant media narratives and underscores the importance of understanding both international power plays and grassroots mobilization in shaping a nation’s destiny. The conversation between Wolff and Ciccariello-Maher offers listeners both critical context and a nuanced perspective that resists simplistic conclusions about socialism, capitalism, and U.S. foreign policy.