Economic Update Extra: Chapo Trap House

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Date: September 6, 2018
Guests: Matt Christman & Will Menaker (Chapo Trap House)
Host: Richard D. Wolff

Episode Overview

In this extended episode, Richard D. Wolff interviews Matt Christman and Will Menaker from the political comedy podcast Chapo Trap House. The conversation dives into the themes and motivations behind their newly released book, The Chapo Guide to Revolution, as well as broader discussions of the current American political climate, the role of comedy in activism, generational alienation, and the shifting sands of U.S. social and economic stability.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. About The Chapo Guide to Revolution

(00:01-01:57)

• The book is positioned as both a satirical investigative history and a “prequel” to the Chapo Trap House podcast.
• Will Menaker describes the project as “our attempt to describe how we got to the exact moment we are now, like roughly the election of Donald Trump and like everything that’s come after that, what, you know, what created the world that we now live in.” (00:54)
• The intent was to produce something “funny and entertaining” but also diagnostic, exposing the forces and ideologies which shaped the intolerable present.

2. Diagnosing the “Intolerable Present”

(01:57–03:59)

• The book and podcast are responses to a pervasive sense of alienation and downward mobility, particularly within the middle and upper-middle classes.
• Will Menaker connects these feelings to neoliberalism:

  “The word, I think, is neoliberalism... that is the ideology that has created the sense of total alienation and stress and anxiety and depression that is so widely felt among all people.” (02:56)

• Matt Christman elaborates on capitalism’s role:

  “It is this accelerating state of capitalism where the rate of profit is falling and that profit is being made up by just reducing people to the most bare economic unit possible. And that is leaving you as a person unmoored and totally unsure of what your future is going to be.” (04:21)

3. The Role (& Limits) of Comedy in Political Engagement

(05:19–08:49)

• Wolff raises concerns about comedy acting as a “softener,” which could dilute anger and inhibit collective action.
• Will and Matt acknowledge the risk of comedy serving as mere catharsis but contend their style—rooted in “mean and absurd” humor and Internet irony—aims to puncture comforting narratives rather than offer relief.
  • Will:

    “I think we avoid catharsis by our senses of humor being naturally sort of mean and absurd, basically.” (06:14)

• Matt questions their effectiveness but argues their broader target palette and focus on material injustice set them apart from establishment political comedians:

  “Most political comedy is very focused on the evils of the Republicans...I think our comedy points beyond that. Points beyond aesthetics, points to material reality, points to material exploitation and injustice, and suggests that, that it’s intolerable.” (07:38)

4. Open Advocacy for Socialism – Risks & Rewards

(08:49-11:16)

• Wolff observes that Chapo is unusually forthright in its socialist sympathies, unlike most American comedians.
  • “You are not hesitant to talk negatively about capitalism and you weren’t hesitant to talk positively about one or another kind of socialism.” (08:51)
• Will acknowledges the vulnerability in advocating sincere political beliefs as entertainers:

  “It’s hard if you have to take a stand for a positive vision... But at a certain point…socialism is the only thing that articulates a positive vision that I think charts a way out of the nightmare that we’re currently living in.” (09:47)

• Matt notes their success at balancing irony and sincerity stems from not being career comedians:

  "The fact that we honestly didn't come out of a comedy background...it made us less self-conscious. The professional milieu of comedy is one where sincere expressions of certainly political views are kind of embarrassing.” (10:47)

5. Generational Voices & Audience

(11:16–12:26)

• Both guests reject the label of “spokespeople for a generation.”
  • Will: “Yeah. No. It revolts me.” (11:23)
  • Matt: “We're the voice of a very, very—some sub-slice of a generation.” (12:26)
• They acknowledge their primary audience is people like themselves (middle/upper-middle class, digitally fluent), but hope to reach broader swathes.

6. America’s Shifting Political Terrain (2018)

(12:37-14:30)

• Will observes the traditional American political consensus is “more up for grabs now than it’s ever been in my lifetime,” with instability on both left and right:

  “The anger caused by that can either be productive or horrifying. And...things are more up for grabs now. And as a result, things are very strange because the institutions...don’t know how to deal with it and are less sure of themselves than they’ve ever been.” (13:22)

• Matt adds:

  “It feels—everything feels thin. Like all of these...The institutional legitimacy and stability and social cohesion, everything just feels...like...Things fall apart.” (14:02 – 14:17)

• The hosts and guests riff on Marx and Yeats to describe the turbulence:

  “Everything that’s solid melts in the air.” (14:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On neoliberal alienation (Will, 02:56):

  “That is the ideology that has created the sense of total alienation and stress and anxiety and depression that is so widely felt among all people.”

• On “barbaric yawps” (Matt, 07:45):

  “Our show is known for just barbaric yawps of frustration and just moments of pure, just overloaded outrage.”

• On redefining political comedy (Matt, 07:38):

  “I think our comedy hopefully, ideally points beyond [aesthetic objections], points to material reality, exploitation and injustice, and suggests that, that it’s intolerable.”

• On open socialist advocacy (Will, 09:47):

  “Socialism is the only thing that articulates a positive vision that I think charts a way out of the nightmare that we’re currently living in.”

• On sincerity in comedy (Matt, 10:47):

  “The fact that we honestly didn’t come out of a comedy background... made us less self-conscious…”

• On generational spokesperson labels (Will & Matt, 11:23, 12:26):

  Will: “Yeah. No. It revolts me.”
  Matt: “We're the voice of a very, very—some sub-slice of a generation.”

• On the fragility of present institutions (Matt, 14:02):

  “It feels. Everything feels thin. Like all of these...The institutional legitimacy and stability and social cohesion, everything just feels sort of like it’s...Things fall apart.”

• Yeats reference (Matt, 14:17):

  “Yeah, exactly. It feels like we’re in the Yeats poem. It feels like we’re in the middle of a centrifuge. And so it’s gonna get...torn into a new shape somehow.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:42] – Introduction to The Chapo Guide to Revolution
• [02:21] – Diagnosing the “intolerable present”
• [03:59] – Blaming capitalism vs. scapegoating
• [05:46] – Comedy as catharsis or activism
• [08:49] – On speaking positively about socialism
• [11:16] – Are the guests “spokespeople for a generation”?
• [12:52] – Reflections on America in 2018: breakdown and transformation
• [14:17] – “Things fall apart,” Yeats and Marx references

Tone and Style

The discussion maintains a candid, often irreverent tone typical of Chapo Trap House, balanced by Wolff’s measured, analytic hosting style. There’s a throughline of heavy irony, wry humor, and open political critique, with moments of both earnestness and existential uncertainty about the future.

For listeners and readers alike, this episode provides an insightful convergence of comedy, political analysis, and cultural critique – using humor not to evade harsh realities, but as a tool to confront and diagnose them.