B (2:45)

I can tell you from my standpoint of view, I can't even find a job right now. I'm struggling with car payments. I'M struggling with rent. I have friends of mine that can't even get her prescriptions filled. I can tell you right now, I don't even. My rent is due, my lease is due in my apartment. I don't even know if I can sign my new lease. It's hard. I speak to a lot of associates that are having a hard time with it. I can't even find a job at this point. It's been three weeks since I've been out of the store. And it's hard for. Mentally, it's hard for me.

A (3:19)

It's an amazing thing for me as an observer, the damage that is being done here. You really have to scratch your head in order to make more profits for folks that are already flush. You are condemning, you know, tens of thousands of families to go through an open ended period of catastrophe.

B (3:44)

It's very Sad. My husband, 60 years old, he had to get two jobs to try to make ends meet.

A (3:49)

To carry you through this.

B (3:51)

Yeah.

A (3:51)

And what happens to the single mother or the. All the people who can't find a bridge, hopefully to get them through. Are you seeing this as someone who works with this kind of situation more generally? Are you seeing this elsewhere? Is this a problem you encounter? Are we looking at Toys R Us as an isolated example or is something more typical?

C (4:13)

I think this is something that we've seen many times in the past. We're seeing it right now with stores like Claire's, Kmart, Sears. These are all companies owned by private equity that, that are on the verge or going through bankruptcy. When we look back over the past 10 years, we've seen almost 300,000 workers lose their jobs because of private equity induced closings at companies. And in Sheryl's case, the company was driven to the ground. They promised workers one week of pay per year. They've been there, been with the company, and now they're owed at least 75 million. Right. And we're working towards that and what we're working towards to hopefully save workers. The grief that Sheryl's going through in the future is trying to change some of these laws. Right. So that we have joint employer status for Wall street and private equity, so that they're held to at least the same level of responsibility as the corporations themselves. We're looking at clawback taxes so that private equity companies that destroy company, that destroy corporations, that we have a means to get some of the profits that they made back so we can help these workers out. A private equity job destruction fee because we know the way that private Equity and hedge funds operate. Oftentimes it's offshoring jobs, it's downsizing companies so they can make a little bit more money. And if, if that is the route that they want to go, we should make sure that we are taxing them appropriately so that we have the funds to at least patch up some of the destruction that they're creating. And we're also looking at things like transparency. A lot of people don't know what's going on at these companies. A lot of the workers don't know what's going on. And we believe that if, when a takeover is going to happen, there were stipulations as to what making sure the company communicates with the workers. We imagine the takeover may have not happened. Many of the workers probably didn't want it to happen. And if they knew what was going on, they could have voiced their opinions and maybe avoided that. We're looking at things like closing the carriage interest loophole, right? Other kinds, other forms of accountability. Because what we know, what we've seen is that in this country a lot of things are driven by the excessive need for profit. And we know that if there's a nice way to do it, they'll do it. But if they have to burn it down and, you know, pocket the ashes, they'll do that as well.

A (6:47)

How do they defend themselves? What have they said to you or to you? Is there an excuse? Is there some rationalization, some something, some story they tell to make it seem reasonable, what they're doing?

C (7:00)

What I've heard with Toys R Us is that it's Amazon's fault. That's not, that's what everyone says.

A (7:05)

Every mall that's collapsing in America tells you it's Amazon's fault. Or you know, it's the Internet and.

C (7:11)

You know Amazon is a big company. But when you saddle a company like Toys r US with $5 billion worth of debt, you're not putting them in a position to compete. Every company is prepared to deal with disruption. That is just the nature of these companies. But when you saddle them with debt, it's like trying to fight off a bear with 100 pound backpack on. You can't expect for these companies to compete. And I think that private equity and Wall street, like you said earlier, if they're making money, they're okay. They're not worried about how are you.

A (7:50)

Going to stop it? How are you going to stop the system that works this way that looks that there are people with bunches of money looking to borrow with the money they Have a big pile of money, saddle some company with debt, figuring out, because they got the accountants and economists like me, that the land they're sitting on can be sold for more money than they can get in a short time by being a good toy store. So they don't have no commitment. They're pure money people. Their job is to come in with X and come back with X plus. That's their game. And what the damage they do in this system, they're not accountable. Toys R Us, the kkr, they don't have any responsibility for your rent. That's your problem. They offload all of the costs onto you and they rake in the benefits for them. This is a system that's set up to do this. And while I appreciate everything you've just said, and these are obviously directions to go in on this program. And for me, there's always this worry that we're trying to patch to avoid this problem and that problem. But it's a little bit like the old story of the refrigerator repair guy who comes to your house and fixes it. And two months later you call him again, he comes to your house and he fixes it, and this goes on. And then you call him one time and he comes to you and he says, look, going to do you a favor. I'll fix it. I'll charge you $200, but you're going to be on the phone calling me in two weeks. You got to get a new refrigerator. We're done with this one. You can't. It's not. It's irrational. That's my fear. We're going to stop them this way. We're going to make a little limit there. But this is the refrigerator. We're fixing this. It's busted. The thing is busted. Anyway. This is your program, not my program. What should happen to other workers? What can you say to workers in a thousand corporations across this country who are watching this program asking themselves, oh, my God, could this be happening to where I'm working? Could this be happening to me or my sister or my cousin or whoever? How do you know? You spoke before about workers being unaware. How many people are ever aware of the detailed financial machinations that they don't know anything? I mean, there's a level of insecurity and uncertainty that must eat, even if you don't admit it to yourself. What do you think about that?

B (10:31)

When I file applications, I look into the place where I file to make sure that these guys are not invested into the companies because I'm scared to go into retail again because I'm afraid that this is going to happen to me again.

A (10:42)

When you first heard about them buying it in 2005, you said, did you understand?

B (10:48)

I didn't understand. I didn't understand a word. I didn't understand nothing.

A (10:52)

And nobody explained nothing to me.

B (10:54)

But I saw something happening. When we didn't have parties, right? Get togethers, we used to do a lot of things. Everything was gone.

A (11:02)

Did you, when that, when you noticed that, did you link it to the financial.

B (11:06)

I didn't think.

A (11:07)

I didn't think.

B (11:07)

I didn't think anything about it. And then when I started to see things and then I'm like, wait, since, since this happened. I gotta, I gotta think about it. And then I started to see that and I'm like, this is not good. This is not good. And I, then I knew, then I knew. And then I kept seeing the changes and changes and changes. And then, then I said, oh, no, not this.

A (11:25)

And then when did you link it to the financial things, in other words?

B (11:28)

Probably about like 2007. 2007, when I started, took a couple years. A couple years. When I started to see it getting worse and worse and worse and worse. Then I said, this isn't good. And then I just said, it's not gonna. Nothing will happen. And then I just saw it and.

A (11:41)

I'm like, so we're being run into the ground.

B (11:43)

Started running into the ground. And then the treatment that we got was started to get really bad in the stores. It got really, really bad. Like, like I lost my mom, I lost my dad and stuff. And they used to send flowers and stuff like that.

A (11:55)

And it didn't do it anymore.

B (11:57)

Nothing, nothing. Nothing from corporate, Nothing from the stores. Nothing, nothing. It was just bad. It was bad. And I had customers coming in and thanking me for, like, thanking me in the stores from, thank you for being here for my kids. Because they know, they know how, you know, how nice and stuff. You still got a smile on your face even though you're going through this. It's just grateful. People were very grateful.

A (12:23)

But it's a, it's a, it's just very sad.

B (12:26)

I just want to know how these corporate people sleep at night knowing that just 33,000 employees don't have nowhere to go, Right?

A (12:35)

You wonder how they sleep at night.

B (12:37)

I want to know how they sleep at night because I don't sleep well.

A (12:39)

That's why I asked you that question. I wondered what story they tell themselves.

B (12:45)

I just want to know how they sleep at night because I know I don't sleep well.

A (12:48)

Yeah, Well, I can tell you that some of the stories they tell, because that's what economics unfortunately, often is, is a story that somehow this was inefficient. That's why you hear about Amazon. But somehow more efficient to get your package delivered by the Amazon truck than it is to go into a store. Which conveniently forgets that when you go to a store, there's a person there and you can ask that person about that. You can look at it and touch it and feel it. Although that's conveniently forgotten. That's how you know this is an excuse. This isn't. This isn't a true story. It's an excuse. It also means, though, you're teaching us the precarity, the precarious nature of a job, even in a company with a history and a reputation like Toys R.

B (13:36)

Us had, how are you gonna go to store? How are you gonna go to Amazon and ride a bike?

A (13:39)

That's right. Well, how are you gonna live with the uncertainty? You don't know when you go home at the end of the day, for all you know, that day in some office somewhere, some documents were signed, and it's the end of your job world. It's an argument, your story, for change, if I ever heard it.

C (13:59)

I think so. And there's 13 million retail workers across this country. And I know that they all had their eyes on Toys R Us. They understand what's going on. I think we've seen it. You know, I'm on the younger side, but I think what we've seen is that workers realize what's happening. Everyone understands they're being left behind and that this system is rigged and not in their favor. And all of you know, 13 million retail workers, they all vote. They all know that they're trying to move and create change. And democracy is, you know, sometimes can be a slow process, but the workers are ready for it.

A (14:35)

I hope they've been listening and watching. I hope they take a message. Change is not something for other people. It's for you. Thank you, Cheryl.

B (14:44)

Thank you.

A (14:45)

Thank you, Carlos. Thank you both for coming.

C (14:47)

Thank you.

A (14:48)

And making your story part of everybody's life. Very, very important.

B (14:52)

Thank you.

A (14:52)

And thank you all for watching Economic Update Extra. And we will be talking to you again next week.