Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff – EU Extra: Chris Hedges (October 24, 2018)

Episode Overview

In this extended "Economic Update Extra" episode, Professor Richard D. Wolff resumes his conversation with journalist and author Chris Hedges. Their discussion delves deep into the state of American society, looming dangers of corporate power, the erosion of democratic institutions, comparative historical moments, and the prospects (and limits) for meaningful change. Hedges draws from his experiences covering revolutions and collapses abroad to reflect on what may lie ahead for the United States, critiquing both mainstream politics and emergent social movements.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Unchecked Power of Corporations and the Looming Threat

• Corporate Domination
  Hedges argues that there are no longer effective internal or external checks on corporate exploitation of both the ecosystem and the citizenry. The relentless pursuit of profit, unchecked by regulation or public resistance, is leading society toward exhaustion or catastrophic collapse.

  • "They will loot and steal and exploit until exhaustion or collapse. They know only one word, and that's war."
    — Chris Hedges (01:03)

• Potential Backlash and Systemic Repression
  Hedges discusses the difficulty of predicting what might spark a public uprising, warning that without ideological cohesion, sporadic eruptions of discontent can be easily suppressed using militarized police, mass surveillance, and laws such as Section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act.

  • "If it's just eruptions, that's easily put down, especially with militarized police and wholesale surveillance."
    — Chris Hedges (01:31)

• Dangers of Right-Wing Exploitation
  Right-wing media propagandists can co-opt and redirect public anger for reactionary ends, as seen in other historical contexts.

On Nonviolent Resistance and the Need for Ideological Clarity

• Civil Disobedience with a Socialist Vision
  Hedges expresses hope for mass, nonviolent civil disobedience rooted in a socialist vision, yet is wary of groups—like the black bloc and antifa—whose tactics (he argues) threaten the effectiveness of such a movement:

  • "It's got to be nonviolent. This is why I have battled extensively with the black bloc and antifa...They are an impediment to this movement."
    — Chris Hedges (02:30)

• Historical Parallels and the Unpredictability of Revolt
  Drawing on his experience covering revolutions in Eastern Europe, Hedges cautions that even movement leaders rarely foresee what small event might trigger a mass uprising:

  • "It's often triggered by a very trivial event because the tinder is there, but you never know what will ignite it."
    — Chris Hedges (02:46)

• Sober Assessment
  Hedges ends the segment uncertainly, warning that progress is not inevitable:

  • "We can go in a bad way as well...Nothing is sure."
    — Chris Hedges (03:37)

The Democratic Party and Systemic Limits of Electoral Politics

• On Socialist Candidates and the Democratic Party
  Wolff asks whether figures like Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders signal meaningful change. Hedges is deeply skeptical:

  • "Not within the confines of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party does not function as a real political party. The base has no say."
    — Chris Hedges (04:00)
  • He points to purges of progressives, manufactured friendships, and the party's embrace of intelligence and military candidates.

• On Identity vs. Policy
  Hedges warns against equating diversity with progress, stressing that policy and ideology matter more than descriptive representation:

  • "There's a big difference between Condoleezza Rice and Cynthia McKinney."
    — Chris Hedges (04:48)

Historical Comparison: Then and Now

• Why the 1930s Are Not Repeatable
  • Wolff and Hedges agree that the labor, socialist, and communist movements that pressured Roosevelt in the 1930s were systematically destroyed after WWII.
    • "We've lost our manufacturing base, which was vital to organizing and vital to putting pressure on the ownership class."
      — Chris Hedges (05:43)
  • A centralized, corporate-controlled media and the erosion of civil protections—especially for marginalized communities—make mass organizing much more difficult today.
    • "We used to have a diversified, decentralized press. Now press is in the hands of five or six corporations..."
      — Chris Hedges (06:02)
    • "94% of the people in our prison system never even had a jury trial."
      — Chris Hedges (07:02)

Rise of the Right and Institutional Power

• Institutional Base of the Christian Right
  Hedges describes how, since the 1970s, the American Right has constructed powerful networks—megachurches, religious universities, media—that serve to indoctrinate and mobilize, in contrast to the decline of left institutions like unions.

  • "Instead of union halls, you have megachurches...We can't ignore them. [They] have created powerful systems of indoctrination through Christian media..."
    — Chris Hedges (07:31)

• Magical Thinking and Abandoning Reality
  The right’s media, Hedges argues, replaces fact with opinion, and reason with emotion.

Global Perspectives: Post-Cold War Revolutions and Disappointments

• Lessons from Eastern Europe
  Hedges recalls conversations with leaders during the fall of the Berlin Wall, emphasizing how quickly and unpredictably change can occur. However, these revolutions were quickly co-opted by free-market ideology, sowing seeds for new forms of authoritarianism.
  • "They got sold this bill of goods, that the free market is synonymous with freedom...this swing back towards fascism or proto fascism."
    — Chris Hedges (08:36)

Emerging Models of Authoritarian Capitalism

• China as a Model for Elites
  Hedges sees an alliance of global capital with state surveillance, using China as the prototype for corporate totalitarianism.

  • "I think the model for the global capitalist is China. It's a kind of corporate totalitarianism..."
    — Chris Hedges (09:57)

• Big Tech and Surveillance
  The surveillance capabilities of tech giants are now inseparable from state power, and their real business model is profiling and monitoring the public—often in cooperation with governments.

  • "Google or Bezos has a $600 million contract with the CIA. I mean, they're fused at the hip with the security and surveillance apparatus."
    — Chris Hedges (10:30)

• The Myth of Progress
  He warns against complacency, reminding listeners that historical regression is possible, citing the long duration of the Dark Ages (11:01).

Parallels with the Rise of Fascism in 1930s Europe

• Economic Policy and Political Collapse

  • Hedges draws a line from German austerity in the late 1920s to the rise of the Nazis:
    • "You had Ebert and the Social Democrats...imposing draconian forms of austerity...which was a gift to the loonies and the buffoons and the killers in the Nazi party."
      — Chris Hedges (11:20–11:38)
  • Wolff and Hedges agree that American business elites, like their predecessors in Germany, may find reactionary leaders distasteful but are willing to support them for policy gains.

• Facilitating the Oligarchy
  Trump, like past right-wing populists, rewards the corporate, banking, and military elite—regardless of personal conduct or competence.

  • "Trump, you know, one wonders if he has enough brain cells...But he. Look what he's done to the military. 10% increase and do whatever you want."
    — Chris Hedges (11:45)

The Rise of the “Permanent Lie” and Its Psychological Toll

• Denial of Reality as Statecraft
  Hedges emphasizes that Trump’s unique threat is his validation of lies as truth, creating mass confusion:

  • "The thing that Trump does, which is so dangerous...He denies reality itself."
    — Chris Hedges (12:52)
  • He invokes Hannah Arendt’s “Origins of Totalitarianism” to underline the dangers of governmental lying on society’s collective psyche.

• Media Carnival and Distraction
  The news media, according to Hedges, fuels distraction and spectacle, ignoring economic reality in favor of superficial controversy.

  • "What is cnn? What is the media doing? It's endless carnival barking...Stormy Daniels...the Kavanaugh show..."
    — Chris Hedges (13:50)

• Alienation and Economic Reality
  Wolff notes, and Hedges agrees, that official narratives of recovery deepen public alienation when lived experience diverges so profoundly from media spin.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• (01:03) Chris Hedges:
  "They will loot and steal and exploit until exhaustion or collapse. They know only one word, and that's war."
• (02:46) Chris Hedges, on revolutions:
  "It's often triggered by a very trivial event because the tinder is there, but you never know what will ignite it."
• (04:00) Chris Hedges, on the Democratic Party:
  "Not within the confines of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party does not function as a real political party. The base has no say."
• (06:02) Chris Hedges, on loss of press diversity:
  "We used to have a diversified, decentralized press. Now press is in the hands of five or six corporations..."
• (09:57) Chris Hedges, on China as a model:
  "I think the model for the global capitalist is China. It's a kind of corporate totalitarianism..."
• (12:52) Chris Hedges, on the “permanent lie”:
  "The thing that Trump does, which is so dangerous...He denies reality itself.... that's what the Christian right does. And Hannah Arendt writes about this in Origins of Totalitarianism."
• (13:50) Chris Hedges, on media spectacle:
  "What is cnn? What is the media doing? It's endless carnival barking and burlesque..."

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------| | 00:31–03:43| Hedges on corporate power, possible sources of change | | 03:43–05:17| The Democratic Party and limits of progressive politics | | 05:17–07:20| 1930s vs. today: labor, media, and social control | | 07:20–09:45| Rise of right-wing institutions and lessons from Europe | | 09:45–11:08| Criminalization, surveillance, and China as a model | | 11:08–12:21| Parallels with fascist Europe and corporate complicity | | 12:21–14:42| The “permanent lie,” media spectacle, and closing remarks|

Conclusion

This episode features a wide-ranging, deeply critical conversation examining the grim realities of contemporary American capitalism and democracy. Hedges contends that real change will require mass, nonviolent movements rooted in ideology and solidarity, not party politics. Both he and Wolff remain wary and sober about the outlook—reminding the audience that history does not guarantee progress, and that regressive forces may yet prevail unless countered by informed and organized resistance.