Podcast Summary: Economic Update Extra – Lee Carter

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: EU Extra: Lee Carter
Date: October 30, 2018

Main Theme

This episode of Economic Update Extra continues Richard D. Wolff’s conversation with Lee Carter, a Democratic Socialist delegate in the Virginia House of Delegates. The discussion centers on Carter’s practical experiences with campaigning, countering the “too expensive” argument against progressive proposals, the power of grassroots political organization, the necessity of economic institutions owned by and for the people, and what it means to challenge political norms as a working-class socialist in public office.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Responding to Critics: The “Too Expensive” Argument

• Richard D. Wolff (Host) asks how Carter countered claims that his proposals were unaffordable and would be disastrous for taxpayers.
  • Carter notes these accusations are less about finances and more about threats from those in power:

    “It's not saying if you try to make things better, it'll actually be worse. They're saying if you try to make things better, we're gonna make things worse. We're gonna punish you for trying to make your life better.” – Lee Carter (02:07)

  • He points out that this line of attack didn’t resonate in his district, either during the campaign or afterward, even while sitting with a Republican majority in the chamber.

Timestamps:

• [00:26] – Host introduces the line of attack from Carter’s Republican opponent
• [01:04] – Carter explains his response to the argument
• [01:42] – Carter reflects on greater frequency of the argument within the legislature

2. The Power and Importance of Grassroots Organization

• Carter attributes his win and ongoing effectiveness to a “small army” of volunteers and a broad coalition of progressive groups.

  • "Basically, three sources of power in American politics: money, manpower, and the media... you have to be proactive." – Lee Carter (03:22)

  • The coalition included Democratic Socialists of America, labor unions, the Sierra Club, Sister District, and various Trump-era resistance groups—many united for the first time (“rowing in the same direction”).
  • Maintaining the coalition is crucial, especially with Virginia’s unique off-year legislative elections:

    “They're all excited...there's only so many outlets for them to direct their energy.” – Lee Carter (05:37)

Timestamps:

• [03:08] – On sources of power in politics
• [04:27] – On building a broad, effective coalition
• [05:30] – How Carter keeps the coalition together
• [06:25] – Host observes the symbiotic relationship between candidate and volunteers

3. Building Lasting Institutions Beyond Elections

• Carter urges the left must look beyond electoral politics:

  • "Electoral organizing is important, but it's not the be all, end all of organizing. Ultimately, what we have to do is we have to build institutions, economic institutions that are owned and operated by the people who work there." – Lee Carter (07:38)

• Wolff agrees, noting the importance of counterbalancing corporate political influence with worker-owned enterprises as both an economic and political base.

  • “If we had a segment of the American economy... their natural political expression would be you and me, and our natural political base would be them, and then there'd be a contest...” – Richard D. Wolff (08:41)

Timestamps:

• [07:33] – Carter on moving beyond polls to lasting economic institutions
• [08:38] – Wolff on the need for workplace-based political power

4. Changing Political Norms: The Outsider’s Path

• Carter shares his feelings of being an “odd thing in America”—a working-class socialist in office without a college degree or political grooming:

  • "I'm just... a guy that got angry, and I decided I'm gonna change some things. And frankly, we need more people who are angry about the way things are to step forward and actually change things." – Lee Carter (10:36)

• He describes the institutional resistance—how anything carrying his name gets automatically rejected and the “isolation” felt in a Republican-dominated chamber.

  • “When people vote for a socialist, it's an intentional rejection of the status quo...there is no manual for how to be a socialist legislator in a Republican dominated chamber.” – Lee Carter (11:34)

Timestamps:

• [10:29] – Carter on being an outsider
• [11:03] – On the impact (or lack thereof) of lacking educational credentials in political effectiveness
• [11:34] – Carter on the uniqueness and isolation of his position

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Threats from the Establishment:

  “It's a complete farce. And any teeth that argument actually has… it comes in the form of a threat.”
  — Lee Carter (01:51)

• On Movement Building:

  “If you build it, they will come… but that it that you’re building is you have to build a credible challenge to the power structure.”
  — Lee Carter (07:36)

• On Being a Political Outsider:

  “I wasn't groomed for this…I'm just a guy that got angry, and I decided I'm gonna change some things.”
  — Lee Carter (10:29)

• On Worker-Owned Institutions:

  “This is the way that we have to grow our economy. If we want the left to be successful, we have to walk the walk and build that engine that will keep driving us forward.”
  — Lee Carter (07:49)

Additional Takeaways

• Electoral organizing must be supported by real, lasting institutions that reflect and advance the needs of workers.
• Grassroots volunteers and coalitions are the equalizing force against entrenched political money and media bias.
• Personality and “credentials” matter less to voters than authenticity and a real challenge to the status quo.
• The left’s future depends on developing its own power structures—in the workplace and at the polls.

For listeners and activists: This episode is both a roadmap and a call to action, showing how ordinary citizens, when organized and determined, can upend traditional politics—as long as the effort moves beyond elections into building power in every sphere of life.