B (2:30)

I'm just wondering Is it effective? And it sounds to me that in your area. Not particularly.

C (2:36)

No, not really.

B (2:37)

All right, now, another question that I know, particularly people that are active politically want to know. You had a small army of people going door to door that made all the difference, that brought people into the voting process who were alienated from it. Are you maintaining that organization? Is it crucial for your survival into the years ahead as a political actor to have that kind of an organization? And if it is, how do you maintain it?

C (3:08)

It's absolutely crucial. You know, every campaign is different, but there are basically three sources of power in American politics. You've got money, manpower, and the media. You know, the media is going to do whatever they're going to do. You can't really control that. And the Republicans are going to have the money because, you know, they're the ones that want to make life better for the people that are already doing well. So really, the key to any political activity that challenges the status quo, any political activity that will make things better for working people, for people who are suffering, you need that manpower because you have to go out there and actually make that argument to people right where they are, because the overwhelming majority of people are too busy to go out and seek out the candidates for their local office and say, what's your position on this? How do you feel about that? You have to be proactive. You have to have a way to go and tell them what you stand for if you want to have any chance of them showing up for you.

B (4:13)

How'd you do it? How'd you gather these people together and how did you make them? I don't mean you make them, but how did they come together around you and work together? How did this happen? How did you achieve that?

C (4:27)

It was a coalition, a coalition of groups that was sort of unlikely. The core of that coalition was the Metro DC Chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America. But we also had groups that were more traditionally aligned with the Democratic Party in previous years. We had labor unions and the Sierra Club and sister district and all these resistance type groups that have been popping up since Trump's election. And we had activists from every part of the left of center spectrum working together, sort of rowing in the same direction. And that's how we were able to go out there and spread the word so effectively.

B (5:11)

Is it continuing? Do you have advice for people who might be thinking that in their districts who are watching or listening to this, they could put such a coalition together? Is it continuing? How do you get it to continue? I think this is almost the how to advice section of the conversation?

C (5:30)

Well, yeah, it absolutely is continuing. You know, I've been in regular contact with these groups. You know, they're all excited. Virginia's the only state that has its legislative elections on odd numbered years. So, you know, we're going to be the only game town in 2019. So there's only so many outlets for them to direct their energy. And I'm grateful for all of their energy and their time and enthusiasm, but really it comes down to making an argument about the kind of society that we want to live in and going to these groups and telling them, this is what I stand for, this is how we're going to get there. This is what I'm going to do for the people that, that make up your organization. And when you do that, they turn out, they knock on doors and they get voters to the polls.

B (6:25)

You know, the interesting thing is it really is a kind of symbiotic relationship. Those people need individuals like you that stand up and say, okay, I'm gonna do it. And you need them to be the support without which you can do it. But it is, it's a real partnership. And my wondering is, and why, again, I think you're so important, is that there have to be the individuals, the men and the women who come forward and say, okay, for whatever reason of my life, I'll do it. I will get up there, suffer the kind of outrageous attacks that Jackson Miller dumped on you. But I think your message to people is partly if you do it, you may be surprised by how many folks have been waiting quietly a long time because they're so busy and their lives are so overwhelming to have someone who can take an hour here or two hours there of their time because they'll give it, because it's part of something that can make change. I can't think of anything more important right now.

C (7:33)

Absolutely. Yeah. There's very much an if you build it, they will come aspect to this, but that it that you're building is you have to build a credible challenge to the power structure. People aren't gonna devote their time and energy to something that they feel is gonna lose from the beginning. But I wanna reiterate one really important thing, and that's that electoral organizing is important, but it's not the be all, end all of organizing. Ultimately, what we have to do is we have to build institutions, economic institutions that are owned and operated by the people who work there. This is the way that we have to grow our economy. If we want the left to be Successful, we have to walk the walk and build that engine that will keep driving us forward. Because if we just make it about electoral organizing, then eventually you're going to run out of steam because people aren't going to see any results.

B (8:33)

Also, we need on our side of the fence what they already have on the other side.

C (8:38)

Exactly.

B (8:38)

Capitalist corporations are funding Republicans, centrist Democrats, and Lord knows who else. If we had a segment of the American economy that was organized with workers owning and operating and directing their own enterprises, their natural political expression would be you and me, and our natural political base would be them, and then there'd be a contest, and Americans could choose which direction they want their economy to go. So I think, you know, nothing illustrates more your point. You need to build that kind of institution in the workplaces of America because they're valuable in and of themselves, but they're also the natural base for this kind of politics to grow, to have people support, to have financial support. I think that's the wave of the future, because I can't see any other way for us to move forward. I also think that by maintaining your own organization, you're also sending a very powerful message to the Democratic Party in which you function, to the Republicans. You're not going to play the game the way they do. They're going to have to contest with a much stronger opponent because the money advantage they're used to doesn't work here. The media advantage doesn't work. You have that thing they don't have or don't have as strongly, and that's an equalizer. That's a kind of change in the rules of the game. In a way. Bernie did that on a national level with his small contributions. You're doing it in a local level in the same way, and you're showing that it can work. It's an extraordinary achievement. How does it make you feel just having become this odd thing in America? A person who's a socialist and a Democrat who runs in an election, makes his arguments clearly and then has the people say, we want you.

C (10:29)

It's bizarre. Like I said earlier, I'm not a traditional. I don't have a degree. I'm one of, I think, two people in the Virginia House with no degree. I'm not a natural politician. I wasn't raised for this. I wasn't groomed for this twice in my life. I lived in a trailer. So, you know, it's bizarre. You know, I'm just. I'm a guy that got angry, and I decided I'm gonna change Some things, and frankly, we need more people who are angry about the way things are to step forward and actually change things.

B (11:03)

Is it your experience that not having those degrees and grooming is a big demerit, is a big hindrance to your.

C (11:10)

Being effective where you are within the confines of the Capitol building? Absolutely. You know, especially being a heterodox thinker when it to economic issues, it's definitely hard to be effective. You know, I've found that my name is a party line issue. Anything with my name on it, Republicans will kill. I mean, I could put forward a bill that said motherhood and apple pie are great things and Republicans would kill it. But, you know, I've found ways to be effective. I've found ways to, you know, get some of my ideas into practice, you know, working with other people, letting other people take credit. But the big thing is that when people vote for a socialist, it's an intentional rejection of the status quo. It's an intentional rejection of the norms. It's an intentional rejection of this sort of buddy, buddy, bipartisan kumbaya thing that the Democrats want to sell. And so there have been all sorts of attempts to bring me into the fold to go, you're so new at this. Let me tell you how things actually work. But I have to stay true to the people that voted for me. I have to go out there and reject the norms. I have to say, I'm gonna fight tooth and nail for the people that put me here. And if they decide that they don't want me here anymore, fine. It's up to them. It's not up to me. And so it's definitely, it's isolating. It's interesting. There's no precedent for this. There is no manual for how to be a socialist legislator in a Republican dominated chamber. It just, it doesn't exist. I mean, all of us that have won our elections recently, we're trying to figure this out as we go.

B (12:59)

Sure. Well, one thing I can tell you, everybody takes notice, not just us, to invite you here and grateful that you've come. But all across the country, on left, right and center, they're noticing. Whether it's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez or you or the dozens of others across the country, change is happening. And that the cross currents of America are not summarized just by Trump and the movement to the right, but the undercurrents are just as powerful and as in the water, sometimes more powerful. It's amazing what you've done. It should be an inspiration to everybody. It certainly is. To me and the degree to which the program we produce has given you some ideas along the way.

C (13:47)

Thank you for that by the way.

B (13:48)

And nothing could make us happier and feel that we've accomplished what we set out. Thank you very much and very good luck to you in the future. If there's any way we can help in your next race and so on, don't hesitate to let us know.

C (14:03)

Absolutely. Thank you so very much for having me. I really do appreciate it.

B (14:06)

You're very welcome.

A (14:07)

And to all of you, thank you for joining us today. I think Lee Carter has given us a lot of things to think about and I hope for many of you something to start doing along the lines of that he has pioneered along with others and that make us have some confidence that what's happening in this country can also go in new and better directions. Thank you again particularly to the Patreon community and we'll be talking again next week.