Economic Update EU Extra: Riva Enteen

Podcast: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Riva Enteen
Date: November 13, 2018

Episode Overview

This Patreon-exclusive episode features a dynamic conversation between Richard D. Wolff and activist/editor Riva Enteen, centered on the themes and insights from Enteen’s recent book that compiles interviews by Dennis Bernstein. The discussion explores the intersection of domestic and foreign policy, the militarization of society, economic injustice, and the American tendency to overlook global interdependence. Through vivid anecdotes and critical perspectives, the conversation uncovers the roots of systemic problems in the U.S. and challenges listeners to "follow the money" behind political and social realities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Global vs. National Perspective in Journalism

• Dennis Bernstein’s Approach ([00:00]–[02:20])
  • Wolff asks if Bernstein’s work is more global or national.
  • Riva Enteen: “He is the exception that he talks global as much as he does…The shootings in the United States are terrible, but in the meantime, we have to worry about the children in Yemen who are dying of starvation because of US foreign policy.”
  • The importance of connecting domestic issues (e.g., mass shootings) with international consequences of U.S. policy.
  • Quoting Martin Luther King, Jr.:
    • "The US is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today."
    • "You can't talk domestic policy if you don't talk foreign policy." ([01:19])

"Follow the Money" and the War Economy

• Economic and Political Incentives ([02:20]–[05:42])

  • Wolff introduces the classic investigative idea: "Follow the money."
  • Enteen: The central theme of her work is that “If war is good for business, then we need to change the paradigm.”
  • Example: Flint Water Crisis
    • Flint, MI was once a haven for Black Americans escaping southern violence, but became a “sacrifice zone” impacted by irreversible, intergenerational lead poisoning.
    • Enteen: “General Motors…ended up getting a subsidy to get water that was less toxic for their machines…But under Obama, the EPA let these children get poisoned for generations. So if you follow the money, you find the root of the rot." ([04:14])
  • Broader point: The U.S. economy’s dependence on militarization and business interests comes at the expense of public welfare.
  • "It's always about business. And at this point, it's so much a war economy…" ([05:05])

• Social and Moral Contradictions

  • The prevalence of military-grade weapons, both domestically and overseas, is cited as evidence of the normalization of violence for profit. ([05:09])
  • "Who is on death row? It's poor people, it's not the rich people. … The rich are just getting richer and there's more and more of a stranglehold. … It's not sustainable. Something's going to break." ([05:24])

Hypocrisy in American Ideology

• Gap Between Rhetoric and Reality ([05:42]–[06:46])

  • Wolff: "A society that celebrates morality, Christian virtue, family values… the reality violates all these nice phrases…"
  • The rhetoric is used not just to mask reality, but to justify ongoing harms—akin to going to church to "erase all the ugly things" done during the week.

• Enteen’s Responds:

  • “There's a lot of what we say and what we do that's hypocritical…Let's not pretend that we're caring about human life here, if this is what we're doing.” ([06:46])
  • Discusses Brian Wilson’s anti-war activism and high-profile interviewees—Oliver Stone, Ramsey Clark, Alice Walker—as well as “regular activists in the trenches.”

Militarization and Ethical Questions

• Normalization of War and Violence ([06:46]–[08:33])
  • Personal anecdote: Enteen asks military guests at her B&B if their work makes anyone safer; many admit uncertainty.
  • Questions the loss of ethical debate around the use of violence, noting the lessons of Nuremberg ("you can't just follow orders") and Vietnam.
  • "The hypocrisy that we say that we’re concerned about the mass shootings in this country, but the militarization and the normalization of endless war, because it makes money, makes a fraud of every pretense at preserving human life.” ([08:16])

Violence Abroad and at Home

• Wolff: Allied logic between a country using violence internationally and its effect on domestic attitudes. ([08:33])

  • "To preach that you don't want them to use violence while…you're using it all the time and providing elaborate justifications…is either naive…or just dishonest."

• Enteen: ([09:19])

  • "I'd probably go more with the dishonest. …I'm beginning to feel like there's something narcissistic, that we're only concerned about American lives. It's one planet."
  • Environmental theme: “There’s no plan(et) B. … The greatest polluter on the planet is the US Military.”
  • The disregard for international life and environment is seen as foundational hypocrisy.

US Politics and Structural Critique

• Political System as a Single Party Serving Wall Street ([10:52])
  • Anecdote: International visitors to Enteen’s B&B are incredulous about America’s two-party system; Enteen asserts, “Yes, but it's really one party and it's Wall Street.”
  • Commentary on 2016 election:
    • “They decided anybody but Bernie. So they cheated and they gave us an unelectable candidate. That’s why we got Trump. So we'll blame it on the Russians.” ([11:06])
  • Calls for a deeper reckoning with the normalization of violence, militarization, and the economic interests driving US policy.

Closing Remarks

• Wolff: ([11:32])
  • Thanks Enteen for compiling Bernstein’s interviews and providing a historic record and critical perspective.
  • Affirms the enduring value of such work for understanding America’s problems and possible solutions.

Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 01:19 | Riva Enteen | “The US is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” (quoting MLK) | | 02:53 | Enteen | “If war is good for business, then we need to change the paradigm.” | | 04:14 | Enteen | “General Motors…ended up getting a subsidy to get water that was less toxic for their machines…But under Obama, the EPA let these children get poisoned for generations.” | | 05:24 | Enteen | “Who is on death row? It's poor people, it's not the rich people. … The rich are just getting richer and there's more and more of a stranglehold. … It's not sustainable. Something's going to break.” | | 05:42 | Wolff | “A society that celebrates morality, Christian virtue, family values… it's almost that the phrases exist to cover over, to disguise, to mask the reality.” | | 06:46 | Enteen | “Let's not pretend that we're caring about human life here, if this is what we're doing.” | | 08:16 | Enteen | “The hypocrisy that we say that we're concerned about the mass shootings in this country, but the militarization and the normalization of endless war, because it makes money, makes a fraud of every pretense at preserving human life.” | | 09:19 | Enteen | “I'm beginning to feel like there's something narcissistic, that we're only concerned about American lives. It's one planet.” | | 10:08 | Wolff | “You don't just not torture because it violates your ethical norms, your religious commitments, your human decency. You also do it for self protection of your own people.” | | 10:52 | Enteen | “Yes, but it's really one party and it's Wall street. … So they cheated and they gave us an unelectable candidate. That's why we got Trump. So we'll blame it on the Russians.” |

Suggested Listening Guide (Timestamps & Segments)

• 00:00–02:20: Bernstein’s global vs. national focus; the connectedness of domestic and foreign policy
• 02:20–05:42: Follow the money; Flint and the war economy; impact on marginalized communities
• 05:42–06:46: America’s moral contradictions; the rhetorical gap
• 06:46–08:33: Militarization, ethical questions, and personal activism
• 08:33–10:08: The link between foreign policy violence and domestic violence
• 10:08–11:32: Structural critique of the political system; normalization of violence; closing remarks

Conclusion

This episode offers a thought-provoking analysis of U.S. society and policy, using both personal narrative and hard-hitting critique. Riva Enteen, prompted by Richard D. Wolff’s questions, reveals how the persistent drive for profit via militarism and economic injustice creates lasting domestic and global consequences. Through the lens of Bernstein’s interviews, the dialogue urges listeners to challenge the moral narratives offered by American institutions and to push for systemic change—no “plan(et) B” exists.