Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Growing Independent, Progressive Media

Date: December 23, 2020
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: David Pakman (The David Pakman Show)

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode explores the growth and impact of independent, progressive media in the U.S., contextualized by the political and economic events of 2020. Host Richard D. Wolff reviews lessons learned from the year's major stories—including the “Defund the Police” movement, U.S.-China relations, and the American two-party system—before moving into an in-depth conversation with David Pakman about audience growth, media infrastructure, and the evolving landscape for critical discourse in media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from 2020's Political Economy (00:10–15:19)

• Defund the Police Movement

  • The slogan, tied to Black Lives Matter, did not politically harm the Democratic Party or social movements, despite backlash.
  • Wolff contextualizes it alongside conservative "defunding" calls, such as "Defund the IRS" and "Defund the government"—noting these were effective and not deemed extreme.
  • Funding Priorities:
    • U.S. spent $115 billion on policing vs. $11 billion on the CDC (Center for Disease Control) and $9 billion on the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency).
    • Disparity in spending criticized given relative threats—murder (under 20,000 deaths) vs. disease (300,000 COVID-19 deaths).
    • “What are we doing, spending the amount of money we’re spending on policing relative to the amount of money we're spending to deal with something much more dangerous to us, namely this pandemic?”
      — Richard D. Wolff (07:16)
    • Advocates for reallocating police funding toward mental health and homelessness solutions; cites other countries (e.g., Finland).

• U.S.-China Relations

  • Both Republican and Democratic leaders are presenting China as a major adversary.
    • “The USSR and China are not the same. And a Cold War between the US and China will be a very different affair.”
      — Richard D. Wolff (12:27)
  • China is fundamentally different from the USSR: much larger population, stronger economy, deep global integration.
  • Historically, U.S.-China collaboration benefited both economies; questions the wisdom of shifting toward antagonism.

• Critique of the Two-Party System

  • Both major parties heavily depend on big-donor funding, disconnecting them from ordinary citizens.
  • America’s two-party political system is likened to a monopoly—one not permitted in business, but tolerated in politics.
    • “We do not allow monopolies in our business world. Why are we allowing two to monopolize the Congress?”
      — Richard D. Wolff (14:34)
  • Calls for new political parties and genuine political alternatives.

2. Growing Independent, Progressive Media—Interview with David Pakman (15:19–28:31)

The Rise and Structure of Progressive Independent Media

• Infrastructure & Opportunity

  • High-resolution video streaming, widespread internet access, and smartphones democratize information distribution (16:16–17:34).
  • Younger audiences, unbound by the tradition of mainstream networks, seek political commentary directly from online platforms.

• Impact and Reach

  • Anecdotal evidence: Listeners escape right-wing echo chambers, share content with family, and shift voting behaviors.
    • “Over the years now, the number of people who call in and say, you know, I got stuck in right wing filter bubble...and I got out of it thanks to the work of people like you.”
      — David Pakman (18:35)
  • The audience shift accelerated during the pandemic, with more people home and seeking alternative sources amid dissatisfaction with mainstream media.

• Resilience and Growth during Crisis

  • Initial revenue drop due to pandemic-related economic downturn, but strong growth followed as people turned away from traditional outlets (19:35–20:51).
    • 2020 was the show's best year ever, driven by pandemic urgency and election interest.

• What Sets Independent Media Apart

  • Direct relationship between host and audience—no interference by advertisers or editorial layers as in corporate media.
    • “There’s a different relationship between the host or hosts and the audience...With corporate media...sometimes people accurately perceive that they're either not being given the right story or the full story.”
      — David Pakman (21:17)
  • Elimination of advertiser bias (i.e., news interrupted by related corporate commercials) engenders trust.

The Future of Progressive Media

• Continued growth likely as global internet access expands and cultural norms shift (22:42–23:35).
• International audience for progressive U.S. content is rising, attributed to global interest—and anxiety—over U.S. politics, particularly the Trump presidency.
  • “The embarrassment that Trump has been is so obviously impacting people all over the world...”
    — David Pakman (24:09)

3. New Openness to Critique of Capitalism (24:32–27:59)

• Both hosts observe a “bear-out-of-hibernation” effect: greater willingness to openly discuss and criticize the capitalist system.
• Still, anti-socialist reflexes remain—allegations and fears of communism persist.
  • “There’s no shortage of wild allegations that I get about being somebody who would like to see a return of sort of Soviet style [governance].”
    — David Pakman (25:24)
• Favorable views of terms like "socialism" are increasing, allowing for more nuanced discussions about economic systems in public discourse.
• Progress in understanding distinctions between Soviet/Chinese models and Northern European social democracy is occurring—but slowly.
  • “The degree, had it evolved more, more appropriately, associating Joe Biden with Venezuela would have been far more difficult over the last six months.”
    — David Pakman (27:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Slogans and Policy Priorities
  • “Defunding the police is not some aberration, some extremity, some unwise move.”
    — Richard D. Wolff (04:57)
• On Spending Priorities
  • “What are we doing, spending...$115 billion on policing relative to the amount of money we're spending to deal with something much more dangerous to us, namely this pandemic?”
    — Richard D. Wolff (07:16)
• On Political Monopolies
  • “We do not allow monopolies in our business world. Why are we allowing two to monopolize the Congress?”
    — Richard D. Wolff (14:34)
• On the Impact of Progressive Media
  • “The number of people who call in and say…I got out of it thanks to the work of people like you…those are anecdotal stories, but it's really all we have. And those definitely are inspirational.”
    — David Pakman (18:35)
• On Directness vs. Corporate Layers
  • “There’s a different relationship...where there's a lot of interference and it feels like many intermediaries between the sort of truth and what is coming out...With corporate media…there's something not quite right about that.”
    — David Pakman (21:17)
• On Economic & System Critique
  • “We're riding on a wave…of people being able…to be critical of capitalism, to name the system…to raise fundamental questions…without all the Cold War taboo.”
    — Richard D. Wolff (24:32)
• On the Evolution of Political Understanding
  • “It is evolving, but it's pretty disappointingly slow.”
    — David Pakman (27:15)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Defund the Police & Public Spending Analysis: 00:10–11:00
• U.S.-China Relations & Cold War Rhetoric: 11:00–14:00
• Critique of Two-Party System & Political Monopoly: 14:00–15:19
• Introduction of David Pakman: 15:19–16:16
• The Growth of Progressive Independent Media: 16:16–18:14
• Audience Impact and Escape from Media Bubbles: 18:14–19:10
• Pandemic Effects on Content and Audience: 19:10–20:51
• Differences Between Independent and Mainstream Media: 21:17–22:24
• International Audience Growth: 23:35–24:09
• Openness to Critique of Capitalism/Socialism: 24:32–27:59

Closing

This episode highlights the rising success and necessity of independent, progressive media as access to technology spreads and public openness to systemic critique grows—albeit gradually. The hosts’ optimism is tempered with the reality that meaningful change in public discourse is incremental, but the expanding audience and deep engagement are clear signs of progress for alternative voices in media.