Podcast Summary: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: How US Capitalism Uses Nationalism
Date: April 29, 2021
Host: Richard D. Wolff (Democracy at Work)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Richard D. Wolff explores the persistent role of nationalism in supporting US capitalism, particularly how it has been wielded historically and continues to be used today as a tool by the economic elite to shore up their dominance during times of vulnerability. Wolff challenges the commonly held narrative that past and present hostilities toward Russia and China are rooted in ideological battles between capitalism and socialism. Instead, he argues that these struggles are largely "political theater"—justifications for massive government spending and militarization that ultimately serve the interests of the wealthiest Americans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cold War Rhetoric: A Mask for Continued Hostility

• Wolff begins by questioning why, decades after the Cold War's end and the collapse of the Soviet Union, American mainstream discourse about Russia and China remains hostile.
• Quote: "It's as if the whole business about communism versus socialism was a fake issue. It wasn't the real problem. Because now that that issue is clearly not relevant the way it was, nothing has changed. The hostilities are the same." (03:05)

2. Nationalism as a Tool for Capitalist Interests

• The real motivation behind the ongoing antagonism, Wolff contends, has always been to secure and justify immense government outlays—primarily defense budgets and foreign interventions—that benefit America's economic elite.
• Nationalism is deployed to garner public support for these outlays, masking their true beneficiaries.
• Quote: "You couldn't say... we who run this economy are now going to use your tax money, you, the mass of people to help us stay on top of the system... Instead, talk about a great crusade that would justify you using all of that money." (06:30)
• He references President Eisenhower’s warning about the military-industrial complex to underscore how entrenched and profitable these arrangements have become.
• Quote: "This year alone, we'll be spending almost a trillion dollars on the defense activities and budgets of the United States. It's staggering." (08:08)

3. Historical Patterns: Nationalism Justifies Repression and Expansionism

• Wolff traces how every major threat to American capitalism (populist movements, depressions, wars) led to a mobilization of nationalism, typically framing immigrants and foreigners as the root danger.
• Late 19th Century: Populist and labor movements led to anti-immigrant fervor and the Spanish-American War.
• Post-WWI/1920s: "Dangerous" immigrants (e.g., Sacco and Vanzetti case) were targeted, with nationalism deployed to suppress dissent.
• Quote: "Business led the way in all of this. These immigrants are threatening the American way of life." (15:08)

4. Post-WWII and the Cold War Era

• After WWII, socialists and communists—key in the anti-fascist struggle—were targeted as threats to American capitalism.
• The specter of the Soviet Union justified both foreign belligerence and domestic repression (crushing unions, rolling back New Deal gains).
• Publicly, these were framed as existential battles between capitalism and socialism.
• Quote: "The communists, the socialists, the union activists, they're the ones who made the New Deal happen. You could squash them at home and push back against the Soviet Union, but... you had to come up with a great crusade." (29:05)

5. Contemporary Nationalism: Cracks in the Facade

• Wolff argues recent crises (dot-com crash, 2008 recession, COVID-19) have endangered capitalism’s legitimacy; thus, renewed nationalism and xenophobia surface as diversions.
• Today's difference: American capital is now global; manufacturing and investment are deeply entwined with China and elsewhere.
• Quote: "If you mobilize the American people against China, you are threatening the biggest investments American companies have made in the last 25 years, which are in China." (39:08)
• This interdependence presents new contradictions: nationalism is both harder to justify and more risky for business interests.
• Trump's nationalism (anti-immigrant, anti-Chinese rhetoric) is described as outdated, ultimately rejected by many in the business elite.
• Quote: "Part of why Mr. Trump isn't president... is that the business leadership of the United States had enough. They didn't want this. He overplayed his hand." (44:05)

6. The Danger and Futility of Revived Nationalism

• With Russia and China forming formidable blocs, stoking nationalism is more dangerous than in the past; it risks direct confrontation with powers the US cannot easily best.
• The discourse about foreign threats, Wolff suggests, is a "political theater" to distract from deeper structural failings of the US system.
• Quote: "This country is not endangered by a few thousand immigrants from Latin America... It's theater, nationalist, anti foreign theater. And so was the demonization of Mr. Putin or Xi Jinping." (50:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hostility Toward China and Russia:
  "The issue never was primarily communism versus socialism. The issue was very different. The issue was the anxiety of the 1% in the United States..." (04:08)

• On Military Spending:
  "Every state in the union depends on the businesses that sell to the government, military. And that has to be justified. And a great struggle between capitalism and socialism is a way to do that." (08:54)

• On Nationalism as Distraction:
  "Who it is changes and really doesn't matter. It wasn't about capitalism versus socialism. It was the rerun in the 20th century of an older 19th century pattern..." (19:01)

• On Modern Contradictions:
  "Now nationalism has a problem it didn't have before. If you mobilize the American people against China, you are threatening the biggest investments American companies have made..." (39:08)

• On Theatrical Nature of Political Narratives:
  "The struggle between capitalism and socialism was mostly theater, like so much of our politics." (49:42)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Brief Summary | |-----------|----------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:10 | Introduction & Thesis | Outlines the persistence of US-Russia/China hostility. | | 06:30 | On Justifying Government Spending | How nationalism rationalizes military outlays for capitalist gain. | | 10:05 | Globalization of American Capitalism | US business dependence on global supply chains. | | 15:00 | Historical Nationalism as Labor Repression | Late 19th-century and early 20th-century examples. | | 29:00 | Post-WWII: Red Scare & New Deal Backlash | Use of anti-communism for domestic repression. | | 39:00 | Modern Contradictions of Globalization | Why nationalism now endangers elite’s overseas interests. | | 44:00 | Trump's Nationalism & Elite Pushback | Business elite’s rejection of “overplayed” nationalism. | | 49:40 | Conclusion: “Mostly Theater” | Warns of the real dangers behind nationalist “political theater.” |

Tone and Language

Wolff’s tone is direct, analytical, and occasionally wry, as he deftly connects present-day politics to broader historical and economic trends. His style is persuasive and urgent, frequently underscored by rhetorical questions and pointed examples.

Summary

In "How US Capitalism Uses Nationalism," Richard D. Wolff dismantles the myth that 21st-century US hostility toward Russia and China is grounded in an ideological clash. Instead, he reveals a centuries-old tactic: mobilizing nationalism whenever capitalism feels threatened, shifting blame to foreign rivals or internal minorities, and channeling public resources into corporate hands. As globalization intensifies, this strategy turns self-defeating and perilous, with the world's power dynamics now actively undermining such nationalist theater. Wolff’s central warning: American society must see through the political drama to the underlying class interests at play—before the consequences spiral further out of control.