Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode Title: Making Critical Arguments
Date: October 17, 2019
Host: Richard D. Wolff
Guest: Ben Burgis

Overview

In this episode of Economic Update, Richard D. Wolff examines the power and necessity of critical arguments in social, economic, and political life. The first half of the podcast features Wolff’s analysis of recent news topics through a critical economic lens, emphasizing systemic failings and real-world consequences for ordinary people. In the second half, Wolff interviews philosopher and author Ben Burgis about Burgis’s book, Give Them an Argument: Logic for the Left, and discusses the importance of skillful argumentation for socialists and the broader left.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Reflections on Homelessness (00:10–07:05)

• Story of Emily Zamurka:
  Wolff opens by recounting the viral story of Emily Zamurka, a homeless woman in Los Angeles with professional singing talent, highlighting how systemic issues suppress individual potential.
• Systemic Homelessness:
  Wolff criticizes the U.S. economic system for failing to provide basic housing, noting millions are homeless or “cost-burdened” by housing expenses.
• Market Failure:
  He frames the lack of affordable housing as a clear failure of capitalism:

  “Capitalism isn’t doing the job. It doesn’t give the mass of people enough money to afford the houses at the prices that capitalists who build houses charge for them." (04:01)

• Moral Evaluation:
  Wolff urges judging economies by how they meet basic needs like housing, food, and clothing.

2. Climate Change Activism and Political Dismissals (07:05–11:52)

• Greta Thunberg’s U.S. Visit:
  Wolff addresses Thunberg's advocacy and reactions from Trump and Putin, noting the irony and political maneuverings in their dismissals of her.

  “‘People fighting for basic change are denounced as unrealistic, just as Mr. Putin did…’” (10:36)

• Minimizing Urgency:
  He mocks world leaders who claim climate problems are “very complicated” as a means of excusing inaction.

3. U.S.-China Trade War and European Reactions (11:52–15:00)

• European Interests:
  Wolff highlights how Europe strategically benefits from U.S.-China tensions, stepping in for lost business.
• Tariff Fallout:
  Example of U.S. tariffs on EU products (like Airbus), followed by expected European retaliation, which will increase consumer costs.
• Crucial Systemic Critique:

  “We live in a strange society where big capitalists in the airplane business lobby their friends, the politicians… and our job is to watch, shut up and pay." (14:27)

• Lack of Democratic Input:
  Decisions that impact consumers and workers are made by corporate owners, not the public.

4. Purdue Pharma, Sackler Family, and Opioid Donations (15:00–15:50)

• Reputation Laundering:
  Wolff discusses the Sackler family's donations to universities and museums as an effort to "clean their reputation" amidst opioid crisis lawsuits.
• Delayed Accountability:
  Raises the question: did these donations also buy silence or delay exposure that worsened the opioid epidemic?

5. The Sale of Sports Illustrated and Capitalist Power (15:50–15:57)

• Job Losses and Editorial Control:
  The sale and subsequent layoffs at Sports Illustrated serve to illustrate capitalist dominance over both jobs and editorial content.
• Democracy Deficit:

  “Who calls the shots in a capitalist system and who lives with the results without having any options at all.” (15:54)

Interview: Ben Burgis on “Give Them an Argument” (15:57–28:13)

Introduction to Ben Burgis (15:57–16:07)

• Burgis is a philosophy professor, columnist for Jacobin, and a proponent of reclaiming logical argument for the socialist left.

Why Write Give Them an Argument? (16:07–17:01)

• Right-Wing Co-optation of “Logic”:
  Burgis criticizes the right for cynically appropriating the language of logic and reason, and the left’s retreat from direct argument.

  “‘The book both urges people… to spend more time showing exactly what's wrong with these right wing arguments and also to make more explicit arguments for our positions.’” (16:33)

• Missed Opportunities:
  The left’s eye-rolling dismissal, though understandable, misses chances to persuade.

The Culture Wars and Argument Fatigue (17:01–18:30)

• Pathologies of Powerlessness:
  Prolonged left exclusion from power has led to a defensive posture, focusing more on expressing moral commitment than persuading others.

  “People have sometimes rightly become suspicious that people arguing for other positions are just being biased by their circumstances…” (17:28)

The Necessity of Persuasion (18:30–21:10)

• The Turn Toward Winning:
  Burgis notes that viable left political movements (e.g., the Bernie Sanders campaign) are refocusing on persuasion and real contestation.
  • Quote:
    “‘If you want to win… it's precisely your job to try to explain things to people.’” (19:56)
• Persuasion as Collective Responsibility:
  Wolff and Burgis concur that effective argument is everyone’s job, not just “experts”:

  “It's necessary for everybody in his or her mind to frame it and phrase it as it makes sense in their lives.” (21:12)

The Logic vs. Emotion Dichotomy (21:12–23:27)

• False Divide:
  Burgis dismantles the idea that logic and emotion are opposites. He targets right-wing figures like Ben Shapiro who weaponize slogans like “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”

  “The idea that emotionally caring about...a better, fairer, more just world is somehow in conflict with logic—I think it's just fundamentally confused.” (23:18)

• Philosophical Context:
  Reason helps us achieve what we care about, but values guide which facts we attend to. Wolff adds:

  “Your brain is always selecting which facts to focus on. And there your values come into play because they're part of the selectivity.” (23:27)

Case Studies in Argument — Venezuela and Minimum Wage (23:27–26:38)

• Venezuela Politics:
  U.S. discourse often omits the historical and ongoing influence of American imperialism when discussing Venezuela.
• Minimum Wage Debate:
  Burgis explains the fallacy in ridiculing proposals to raise the minimum wage as “slippery slope.”
  • Quote:
    “That’s like saying that if you start with a head of hair… eventually I'd be bald… But that doesn't mean that there's no real difference between baldness and not baldness.” (25:33)
• Economic Imagination:
  Wolff comments on the failure to imagine alternatives:

  “The idea of dismissing it [a $30 minimum wage] as if it's unimaginable simply means your imagination isn't well developed.” (26:38)

Hope for the Left’s Revival (26:38–28:13)

• Signs of Progress:
  Burgis acknowledges a growing shift as more people on the left become invested in winning and persuasion, not just protest.
  • Quote:
    “‘Once you see that you might actually win… maybe if I did a better job of explaining these things, maybe we would win over some of these winnable people and then we would have a better coalition…’” (27:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Capitalism isn’t doing the job. It doesn’t give the mass of people enough money to afford the houses at the prices that capitalists…charge for them.”
  — Wolff, (04:01)

• “People fighting for basic change are denounced as unrealistic, just as Mr. Putin did…who told us that the problems of the climate are very complicated. Very helpful, Mr. Putin.”
  — Wolff, (10:36)

• “If you want to persuade people, if you have political goals that you take seriously in real life, it's precisely your job to try to explain things to people.”
  — Burgis, (19:56)

• “The idea that emotionally caring about… a better, fairer, more just world is somehow in conflict with logic—I think it's just fundamentally confused.”
  — Burgis, (23:18)

• “The facts are too many, the facts are infinite…so your brain is always selecting which facts to focus on. And there your values come into play.”
  — Wolff, (23:27)

• “[Slippery slope logic]...That's like saying that if you start with a head of hair…eventually I'd be bald. But that doesn't mean that there's no real difference between baldness and not baldness.”
  — Burgis, (25:33)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10–07:05 — Homelessness and the Failure of Housing in Capitalism
• 07:05–11:52 — Greta Thunberg, Climate Change, and the Dismissal of Activism
• 11:52–15:00 — Trade Wars: U.S., China, and Europe
• 15:00–15:50 — Purdue Pharma, Philanthropy, and Accountability
• 15:50–15:57 — Sports Illustrated Layoffs: A Case Study in Capitalist Control
• 15:57–28:13 — Interview: Ben Burgis on Logic, Argument, and the Left

Takeaway

Richard Wolff’s Economic Update this week fiercely interrogates headline events for their systemic underpinnings, showing how societal failures are not accidental but structured. The conversation with Ben Burgis provides a toolkit for left-wing activists and listeners: reclaim logic and argument, refuse to cede ground to the right on “facts,” and focus on effective, values-driven persuasion to win real change.