Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff
Episode: People to People: Horizontal Social Change
Date: March 11, 2021
Overview
In this episode, Richard D. Wolff explores crisis responses at the grassroots level, focusing on how ordinary people organize horizontally to meet needs neglected by official institutions. Wolff is joined by sociologist Marina Sitrin to discuss “horizontalism”—a non-hierarchical model of collective action—and to highlight stories from her book Pandemic Solidarity: Mutual Aid during the COVID-19 Crisis. The conversation spans recent crises, mutual aid networks, the concept of horizontal social change, and its connection to broader anti-capitalist and socialist movements.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Intro: Recent Systemic Crises in the U.S.
(00:10 – 05:10)
- Wolff draws parallels between the Texas energy grid failure and the COVID-19 disaster, each reflecting the pitfalls of privatized, profit-driven services without adequate regulation.
- He challenges narratives blaming renewable energy or external factors, instead focusing on the consequences of prioritizing profits over public welfare.
- Quote:
- “Here’s the private capitalist enterprises in the energy business led to the Texas disaster, just like a private health care system led to the COVID disaster.” – Richard D. Wolff (03:50)
2. Wall Street’s ‘Near Accident’: The GameStop Story
(05:10 – 10:30)
- Wolff explains short selling and how small investors on Reddit disrupted Wall Street’s expectations for GameStop, mostly as a maneuver rather than genuine economic activity.
- He emphasizes the fundamental opacity of stock markets, likening them to a casino where small investors are always several steps removed from actual company information.
- Quote:
- “Therefore, it is, to be blunt, a crapshoot. It’s a casino... and you may have noticed that in the casino, the house always wins in the end. Wall Street is no different.” – Richard D. Wolff (09:30)
3. Impact of the Pandemic on Higher Education and Labor
(10:30 – 13:45)
- Highlights large-scale university layoffs (260,000 jobs lost) and the rise of unionization movements with calls like “Chop from the top,” targeting disproportionate administrative/athletic salaries amid worker sacrifices.
- Quote:
- “When you make a university work like a business, you give the CEO of the university, the president, the crazy money.” – Richard D. Wolff (12:34)
4. Hollywood’s Dependency on China & Economic Power Shifts
(13:45 – 14:50)
- Notes the growing significance of China’s market for Hollywood, shaping film content and reflecting shifting global economic balances.
5. Comparing Lockdown Responses: New Zealand vs. USA
(14:50 – 15:45)
- Contrasts New Zealand’s strict, effective lockdowns with the U.S. approach, highlighting vastly different COVID-19 death rates and economic impact.
- Quote:
- “New Zealand has five COVID deaths per million. The United States has 1,500 COVID deaths per million.” – Richard D. Wolff (15:30)
Guest Segment: Marina Sitrin on Horizontal Social Change
Introduction to Marina Sitrin
(15:45 – 16:28)
- Sitrin is introduced as a scholar in collective action and social movements, author of Pandemic Solidarity and works on horizontalism.
6. Mutual Aid and Informal Responses to Crisis
(16:28 – 17:49)
- Sitrin describes how official institutional responses to COVID-19 (and crisis in general) were insufficient globally, leading neighbors and ordinary citizens to organize mutual aid networks to address needs like food, medicine, and loneliness.
- Quote:
- “It’s people, neighbors, regular people... coming together to figure out what people's needs are. So food, medicine, but also things like loneliness over time...” – Marina Sitrin (16:55)
7. Emergence and Evolution of Mutual Aid Movements
(17:49 – 19:19)
- Sitrin says the learning from each crisis is uneven and accumulative; some areas have built on previous experiences (e.g., Greek health clinics expanded beyond simple medical aid after learning from previous crises).
8. Horizontalism: Definition and Practice
(19:19 – 20:34)
- Sitrin defines horizontalism as a form of social relationship emphasizing direct democracy, mutual care, and non-hierarchical organization—distinct from prescriptive political ideologies.
- Quote:
- “It’s a social relationship... It’s about social relationships and how we organize with one another in a way that is kind of as it sounds, that it’s horizontal, it’s direct.” – Marina Sitrin (19:39)
- Links the practice to neighborhood, workplace, and movement organizing seen in Argentina, Occupy, and mutual aid networks during COVID-19.
9. Horizontalism in Argentina and Cuba
(20:34 – 22:32)
- Argentina: Post-crisis worker-taken (“recuperated”) workplaces used horizontal decision-making, continuing and expanding with time.
- Cuba: Informal and formal self-organization movements influenced government openness to self-management in the economy.
10. Connection (and Limits) to Worker Cooperatives
(22:32 – 23:40)
- Horizontalism in Argentina isn’t just about formal cooperatives but tied to broader anti-capitalist values and long-term transformation.
- Quote:
- “It’s not the actual answer, but it’s that flexing of muscular possibility.” – Marina Sitrin (23:32)
11. Is This Socialism?
(23:40 – 25:04)
- Sitrin affirms horizontalism is participatory, anti-capitalist, and can fit within concepts of socialism—but stresses its emphasis on non-hierarchical structures.
- Notable moment:
- “Millions and tens of millions of people around the world right now are surviving because of each other, not because of our institutions during the pandemic. So that should make us think.” – Marina Sitrin (24:45)
12. Horizontalism & the Occupy Movement
(25:04 – 26:13)
- Occupy was informed by horizontal principles: rejecting formal ideologies and experimenting with democratic participation.
13. Examples from Pandemic Solidarity
(26:27 – 27:23)
- In Turkey: Neighbors organized phone “tea dates” to alleviate loneliness among isolated elderly.
- In Argentina, Greece, and the U.S.: Prisoners and activists organized to protect inmates during the pandemic, exemplifying collective action.
14. Why This Social Action? – Underlying Drivers
(27:23 – 28:24)
- Rooted in the multiple crises of capitalism (economic, political, cultural); people organize horizontally to fill gaps left by institutions and to empower themselves.
- Quote:
- “The heart of it is a crisis of capitalism in so many different ways. Political crisis, economic crisis, social crisis, cultural crisis, and people feeling they’re not represented and that we have to do this for ourselves and with one another.” – Marina Sitrin (27:49)
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
- “Here’s the private capitalist enterprises in the energy business led to the Texas disaster, just like a private health care system led to the COVID disaster.” – Wolff (03:50)
- “Therefore, it is, to be blunt, a crapshoot. It’s a casino... and you may have noticed that in the casino, the house always wins in the end. Wall Street is no different.” – Wolff (09:30)
- “It’s a social relationship... It’s about social relationships and how we organize with one another... it’s horizontal, it’s direct.” – Sitrin (19:39)
- “Millions and tens of millions of people around the world right now are surviving because of each other, not because of our institutions during the pandemic. So that should make us think.” – Sitrin (24:45)
- “The heart of it is a crisis of capitalism in so many different ways ... people feeling that we need to do this ourselves and with each other...” – Sitrin (27:49)
Important Segment Timestamps
- Texas energy grid failure/privatization critique: 00:10 – 05:10
- GameStop/Wall Street explanation: 05:10 – 10:30
- University layoffs and unions: 10:30 – 13:45
- Hollywood & China: 13:45 – 14:50
- COVID response: New Zealand vs. USA: 14:50 – 15:45
- Marina Sitrin interview start: 15:45
- Discussion of mutual aid responses: 16:28 – 19:19
- Horizontalism defined and discussed: 19:19 – 22:32
- Argentina/Cuba examples: 20:34 – 22:32
- Socialism and horizontalism: 23:40 – 25:04
- Occupy/horizontalism link: 25:04 – 26:13
- Examples from Pandemic Solidarity: 26:27 – 27:23
- Why people are organizing this way: 27:23 – 28:24
Conclusion
This episode of Economic Update dives into how ordinary people, through mutual aid and horizontal forms of organization, are filling gaps left by failing capitalist institutions during times of crisis. Marina Sitrin illustrates the power and potential of collective, non-hierarchical action while Wolff situates these developments within the broader systemic context. The episode calls for a greater seriousness and scaling-up of these practices as viable models for broader social transformation.