Podcast Summary: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: The Declining Empire with Chris Hedges
Date: August 28, 2020

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Richard D. Wolff speaks with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author Chris Hedges to dissect the signs of decline in the American empire. They explore how historical patterns of collapse manifest in today’s economic, political, and social crises—highlighting the consequences of oligarchic rule, neoliberal policy, and a government distanced from the realities of ordinary citizens. The conversation critiques both the Democratic and Republican establishments for their complicity in corporate control, and identifies grassroots activism as a source of hope.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. New Danish Tax Proposals and the Threats of the Wealthy (00:10–07:44)

• Wolff presents Denmark's recent initiative to tax the ultra-wealthy and large banks, and direct those resources towards supporting “high-risk, high-social-value” workers (e.g., frontline and first responders).
• Reaction from Danish banks and the wealthy:
  • Threaten to pass costs to the public and cut employment/growth.
  • Wolff equates these to threats against democracy:

    "These are threats against the way the system ought to work in a democratic society." (06:38)

• Wolff notes the falsehood of the threats:
  • Argues banks can’t simply raise prices without losing business.
  • Suggests governments have tools (e.g., price controls, public banks) to counter such threats.
• Underlying message:
  Policies like these in Denmark have global applicability—elites universally leverage similar arguments to shield themselves from taxation by promoting fear.

2. Opioid Distributors and Profit Motive (07:45–11:40)

• Update on the West Virginia AG's lawsuits against Walmart and CVS for distributing large quantities of suspicious opioid prescriptions.
• Draws parallels to other examples:
  • Cigarette, alcohol, and car companies that acted for profit at public expense.
  • Reiterates the deadly consequences of prioritizing profit.
• Notable quote:

  “The profit incentive is not some kind of wondrous thing that explains the wonders of our economy. It is as often a killer as it is anything else.” (11:18)

• Central argument:
  The profit motive often leads to destructive outcomes, meaning that societies must seriously question its primacy.

3. State Department Urges Disinvestment from Chinese Firms (11:41–14:45)

• Wolff critiques the U.S. State Department's move to urge universities to divest from Chinese companies.
• Points out the contradiction:
  • U.S. markets depend on Chinese growth; pulling investment is contrary to sound investment advice.
  • Suggests it's a political move related to election strategy, not real economic substance.
• Cites research debunking the narrative that businesses are fleeing Hong Kong or China.
• Warning about state intervention:

  “It used to be the philosophy of capitalism, that the government has no point, no place choosing winners and losers in the private sector... None of that. We’re now going to have the government tell us what to do.” (13:39)

4. Signs of U.S. Empire in Decline (15:29–27:35)

[Interview with Chris Hedges]

a. Physical and Social Manifestations of Decline (15:54–19:10)

• Hedges outlines classical symptoms of a collapsing empire:
  • Decaying infrastructure, neglected populations, hollowed institutions.
  • COVID-19 exposes systemic weaknesses (healthcare, social safety net).
  • Harsh economic realities:
    • True unemployment near 20%.
    • Middle-class net worth down over $40,000 since 2007–08 crisis.
    • Black and Latino families hit hardest (down 40–46%).
    • Loss of health insurance and rising evictions.
  • Capitalists anticipate crisis by ceasing lending, preparing for wave of bankruptcies.
• Quote:

  “…We are dying in the same way that empires throughout history have died… the foundations rot away. The facade remains.” (15:56, Chris Hedges)

  “…We’re headed for a social and political dislocation… that we haven’t seen since the Great Depression.” (18:34, Chris Hedges)

b. Elite Detachment and Systemic Pillage (19:10–23:00)

• Wolff asks if U.S. elites are killing the goose that lays the golden egg by being insulated from the population’s suffering.
• Hedges:
  • Elites live in “Richistan”—a self-contained world with no contact with working class.
  • Productivity up 77% since 1973, but wages up only 12%; minimum wage would be over $20 if it matched productivity.
  • Most new wealth benefits the billionaire class; COVID-19 has accelerated this.
  • The system is “money-saturated”—legislation/lobbying/courts serve corporations, not citizens.
• Quote:

  “There’s no internal or external check on their pillage and their greed. And this is now having very, very dire social and political consequences which are playing out in front of us.” (22:12, Chris Hedges)

c. The Election and the Illusion of Choice (23:00–25:00)

• Wolff presses: Will the 2020 election matter?
• Hedges: No. Both parties uphold the interests of the same corporate elite.
  • Biden’s record: neoliberal policies, expansion of policing and prisons, NAFTA, support for war, attacks on Social Security.
  • Elections framed around fear and personalities; real alternatives excluded.
• Quote:

  “Look, there is no way within the American political system to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs.” (24:25, Chris Hedges)

d. Trump vs. Biden as Symptom of Decline (25:00–26:00)

• Wolff: Is our binary, uninspiring choice itself a marker of imperial decline?
• Hedges: Yes; the nominees are selected and anointed by the elite.
  • Democratic elites made clear they’d choose Trump over Sanders to protect their interests.
• Quote:

  “…the political and economic system is completely fixed… a continuation of the kinds of policies the Democratic Party has… is inevitably… going to result in a fascist, a competent fascist.” (25:37, Chris Hedges)

e. Sources of Hope: Mass Protest and Systemic Awareness (26:00–27:35)

• Wolff: What positive developments or hope can you identify?
• Hedges points to the new wave of street protests:
  • Protesters not fooled by superficial elite gestures or Democratic gaslighting.
  • Uprisings show growing sophistication and systemic analysis.
  • Real hope lies in “sustained mass civil disobedience” and interconnected global protest.
• Quote:

  “So any hope comes from sustained mass civil disobedience… these are systemic problems that have to be addressed. They’re not reduced to the political personalities of Donald Trump or Joe Biden.” (27:20, Chris Hedges)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Speaker | Timestamp | Quote | |---------|-----------|-------| | Richard D. Wolff | 06:38 | “These are threats against democracy. These are threats against the way the system ought to work in a democratic society.” | | Chris Hedges | 15:56 | “…we are dying in the same way that empires throughout history have died… the foundations rot away. The facade remains.” | | Chris Hedges | 18:34 | “…We’re headed for a social and political dislocation within weeks, if not months, that we haven’t seen since the Great Depression.” | | Chris Hedges | 22:12 | “There’s no internal or external check on their pillage and their greed…” | | Chris Hedges | 24:25 | “Look, there is no way within the American political system to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs.” | | Chris Hedges | 25:37 | “…the political and economic system is completely fixed… going to result in a fascist, a competent fascist.” | | Chris Hedges | 27:20 | “Any hope comes from sustained mass civil disobedience… these are systemic problems that have to be addressed.” |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Denmark tax initiative and elite threats: 00:10 – 07:44
• Opioid lawsuits and profit motive critique: 07:45 – 11:40
• US divestment from Chinese stocks policy: 11:41 – 14:45
• Hedges interview—Decline of empire symptoms: 15:29 – 19:10
• Elite detachment and rising inequality: 19:10 – 23:00
• Election as false choice: 23:00 – 25:00
• Binary political choice symptomizes decline: 25:00 – 26:00
• Hope in mass protest and systemic clarity: 26:00 – 27:35

Final Thoughts

The Declining Empire with Chris Hedges provides a sobering yet analytically rich look at the United States' ongoing decline, arguing for a systemic, not superficial remedy. Both Wolff and Hedges argue that meaningful change will not emerge from mainstream politics but from grassroots mass mobilization that challenges the structures of oligarchic and corporate power.