B (8:32)

Hmm.

A (8:33)

If they went up by 24% last year, that means the average increase of wealth of these families each was $10 billion. The capitalist system we live in makes the richest people on earth grow their wealth faster than everybody else. The gap between rich and poor in this economic system is getting worse, in case you weren't paying attention. You want to do something about poverty, why don't you deal with that? Not little incremental programs in Kenya and India, valuable as they may well be and important for the children involved, no doubt. But a serious approach to the problem of poverty requires facing a system that is producing ever greater extremes of wealth and poverty. And the Nobel Committee might look in that direction. Although if you're expecting that, my advice is do not hold your breath. The next economic update has to do with the Google Corporation. Yes, the Google Corporation. They got caught recently by releasing information. They released it about the institutions, particularly the charitable institutions, the tax exempt institutions to which they give money. A dozen or so of them, they give to many, a dozen or so of them are climate deniers. That's what they're called. They're companies, institutions, let's call them nonprofits that give out lots of information questioning whether we have global warming, questioning whether we're in trouble in this planet, questioning all of that, and throw, in a way, throwing sand in everybody's face and eyes on this subject to avoid the regulations that would otherwise come down, particularly on the fossil fuel companies, the oil, the gas and so on. When confronted by critics, Google explained quite correctly, I believe, that they gave to other groups. They gave to groups that were important in the deregulation or non regulation of high tech, which you can understand, Google wants to avoid. The fact that these organizations also also worked to avoid regulation of fossil fuels was not Google's interest or concern. So they gave money to somebody who does something they're not concerned about because they are concerned about keeping regulation away from themselves. That's how it works, folks. That's how these groups that work against many of the interests many of you have, that's how they fund themselves by doing some other favor for another donor. And so they end up being the institutions that help all the donors. It's good for the donors, it's not so good for the rest of us. The last update I'll have time for today has to do with auto loans in the United States. Auto loans are again in increasing default. What do I mean? People who borrow money to buy an automobile Discover 2, 4, 6, 8 months in that they can't come up with the monthly bill to pay for the car. And so the car is repossessed, taken away from them. What's interesting this time are two things I want to bring to your attention. First, the biggest sufferers, the biggest defaults, the biggest repossessions of cars are cars that are 10 years old, 8, 9 and 10 years old. So the first thing I want everyone to understand because it was news to me, is that more than ever before, used cars, even old, cheap used cars, cannot be afforded by Americans who unless they borrow the money to buy them. 9 and 10 years ago. Was the worst of the crash of 2008 so bad was that crash that American car companies cut back production of new cars drastically? Which is why 9 and 10 year old used cars are now in, you guessed it, very short supply. So the dealers in them jack up the prices, forcing the buyers who want them to go into debt which they can't carry, so they lose the car, which is their only way in our society that has such poor public transportation for them to hold onto their jobs. Ten years after the crash of 2008, we're still producing personal tragedies based on the instability of the capitalist economic system. We've come to the end of the first half of this program. I want to remind you please to subscribe to the YouTube channel that we maintain to check out social media where you'll find us. And of course our special thanks to the Patreon community, which is our friend and our much appreciated supporter. Lastly, I want to remind you that we've written a book, Understanding Marxism that tries to introduce that topic to the many of you that have shown us with your question and comments that you're interested in that kind of a thing. If such a book were of interest to you, please, it is made available by us as a service to respond to your interest. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Welcome friends, to the second half of Economic Update. Before jumping into today's interview, I wanted to mention again to all of you that Economic Update is supported by the New School University in New York City, where I myself am a professor in the International Affairs Program. The New School offers master's degree programs in international affairs that are rooted in progressive interdisciplinary scholarship and they prepare engaged global citizens to build a more just and sustainable world. New School students focus on challenges such as the rise of authoritarian regimes, refugee crises, jobless youth and climate change. Students have unique learning opportunities both at the United nations and at field research locations around the world. So I'm very pleased today to introduce you to to Richard Hobbs. So first let me thank you before I even introduce you, Richard.

B (15:32)

Thank you.

A (15:33)

Richard Hobbs is an attorney. He's an immigrant rights attorney and also the executive director of Human Agenda in Silicon Valley, based in San Jose, California. He is also a member of the South Bay Progressive alliance and of Democratic Socialists of America. He has a number of advanced degrees, but part of why we brought him today is that he's an organizer of emulation tours to Cuba, the next one I believe, in January of 2020, and to Mondragon, Spain in July of 2020, where he focuses the attention of interested folks like us on worker co ops and what they mean and what their trajectory is. So I want to talk to Richard Hobbs both about Human Agenda and about worker co ops and the links between them. So Richard, why don't you tell us a little bit about what Human Agenda is, where it came from and why you've devoted so much of your life to it.

B (16:31)

Yeah, human agenda began 17 years ago and it does have a method. First of all, we do look at the objective conditions. We see that the concentration and centralization of capital and also the commodification of life is globalized. We're completely surrounded by capitalism right now in the United States, the life expectancy actually has declined in the last two years because of drug overdoses and suicides in Silicon Valley. We've seen a 42% increase, for example, in homelessness in the last two years. And we know that six white men control half of the wealth of the United States. Secondly, we look at needs. Human Agenda has asked over 80 different groups. What are your human needs. And within 15 minutes organizations can come back and say what their psychological and their physiological individual needs are as well as the conditions that it would take to reproduce any society. Third, we have a vision based on those needs. That vision basically has five parts. First, we believe that everyone should participate in and be responsible for care work. That means the time and resources to take care of ourselves, to take care of our family and to take care of our immediate community. It also means, for example, that men should also be engaged in care work at home. Secondly, as part of the vision of human agenda, we believe that everybody needs to give a contribution to society. This means that they need to produce something of value for society at a living wage with reduced working hours. Reduced working hours is really key to a new vision. Third, we think everybody should have the opportunity to have access to lifelong learning with accurate information. Fourth, we think that everyone should have the time and the resources to participate democratically in all of the institutions of our society. Finally, we believe, just as Abraham Maslow believed, that we all need time for self realization. Now in terms of the vision of human agenda, we know that we cannot reach that vision under our existing society. We need a new set of values. We like to say that our economic system is based upon exploitation, our financial system is based on speculation and our political system is based on corruption. We need new values and all of those are legal, by the way, under capitalism, under our society. And so we need new values. Human agenda has five values. We call them Dex Democracy, Equity, cooperation, kindness and sustainability. We are looking for institutions that actually meet those values. Because we know, for example, that Monsanto or well, Fargo are not democratic, egalitarian, cooperative, kind and sustainable. But there are institutions that can be established, including economically worker owned co ops, land trusts. We can also provide Medicare for all public education. In terms of our political system, we can actually move to a system whereby campaigns are publicly financed. And as the director of the part of South Bay Progressive alliance that deals with elections, we're trying to also get corporate free candidates elected. And in California, in terms of our financial system, the governor just signed into law public banking in California. So we do know that there are important alternatives that can be created as an alternative to our existing economic, political and financial system.

A (20:14)

Wonderful, thank you for that summary. I must have taken a real effort to get it all in there. But that's good, that's good, a good place for us to start. Before I talk to you a little bit about these institutions you're looking at that might help us, let me provoke you A little bit. How do you respond when people listen to what you say, nod in agreement, but then kind of throw up their hands and say, well, it's too good, it's pie in the sky, it's a wonderful list. But the human race somehow can't get there. How do you cope with that?

B (20:50)

Well, first of all, a lot of people are at a point in their lives where they understand that we need fundamental change in our society. They see that, for example, they're homeless in the middle of the Silicon Valley, which is the heart of capitalism, and yet they can't find a home. And so people are honestly looking for alternatives. Right now I believe that Silicon Valley is the poster child of overwork. People are working 70 and 80 hours on the high end for tech and they're working 70, 80 hours on the low end in order to pay the rent. And in both instances, people are completely exhausted and alienated. And so I believe that people are looking for answers. Obviously it's difficult to get busy people involved in political work. But on the other hand, I've never seen the plethora of groups in Silicon Valley that has existed since the election of Donald Trump.

A (21:43)

Wow. That was my next question. Are you seeing a growing response to the kinds of concerns, issues that Human Agenda is focused on?

B (21:53)

Absolutely. Human Agenda itself is involved policy wise in many of these issues. And more particularly we're trying to create worker owned cooperatives. We have helped create the Smart Yards cooperative and we're working right now in the creation of four other immigrant based cooperatives in San Jose, California. But we're also trying to create those policies that can make a difference. Medicare for all, public education instead of charter schools, et cetera. We're working on all of those issues.

A (22:23)

Tell me why you think worker co ops are an important way forward towards the issues and goals of Human Agenda?

B (22:31)

Well, I'm going to talk about our values and co ops. First of all, worker co ops are democratic. One worker, one vote means that they have a very high participation rate inside their own workplace. Secondly, they are equitable. Not only do they share the profit, which is unheard of in capitalism, but but also they have the lowest disparity between the highest and the lowest paid in mondragon is basically 5 to 1. In the Erasmendi bakeries in East Bay in California it's one to one. And so that enormous disparity doesn't exist in cooperatives. Third, they are cooperative by nature. They make collective decision making and they are not coercive as the workplaces are under our existing economy. Fourth, they're much more kind. They resolve their problems through mediation and they don't just follow the orders of the boss. And finally, they're more sustainable because once workers are making their own decisions, they tend to have modest but fair income. And with that income they have modest but fair consumption. And so most co ops are not engaged in overconsumption. And they also really don't make decisions that would harm themselves in terms of the environment or their local community.

A (23:58)

All right, this gets me to one of the things I'm most interested in in terms of what we do on this program. You've laid out a notion of how worker co ops can move in a direction you believe in. But more than that, you have concrete experience. And one of the reasons you're here today is because you have been for years going to Mondragon to study and investigate the worker co ops they've set up there and likewise in Cuba. Tell us about them and tell us particularly what you learned about them that gave you the feeling of the importance of this institution going forward.

B (24:37)

Honestly, after three generations, both in Mondragon and in Cuba, I believe there's a fundamental shift in human nature. It's a generational shift. After people have been living in a cooperative environment for 60 years, as in both cases Mondragon and in Cuba, I see that people are fundamentally different. When you get to talk, I'm lucky I speak Spanish and I talk to people when I'm in Mondragon and when I'm in Cuba. And so it's a big help to be able to do that. But I say that because in the case of Cuba, for example, we have the example of obviously a state that has socialized the means of production and now is working to decentralize and democratize the economy through the creation of worker owned co ops. In 2012, under the experimental worker co op law, for the first time, non agricultural co ops could take place. And with that we have about 400 service and industrial cooperatives in Cuba where their wages have tripled ever since they've begun. The workers are much more motivated to work than they were when they work for the state sector. And they're very pleased making decisions about the prices of the food at a restaurant, about their own wages. And so it's a fundamental shift in Cuba. And I think that Cuba is on a path. I mean, luckily they have the, they own the island and so they can make these kinds of changes. But it does take an enlightened group to be able to move in that direction. Of decentralizing and democratizing the economy.

A (26:19)

So, simple question. If the workers make the decision, for example, about their own wages, did what capitalists have always said, did it all blow up because the workers don't care about running the business, they just want more wages? And so it all falls apart implicitly. What you've said is they didn't have that problem.

B (26:41)

No, they don't have that problem. I mean, in Cuba, the new worker owners in 400 cooperatives outside of the agricultural sector, which is actually much bigger than these 400 non agricultural co ops, the workers have been extremely pleased to have access to making their own decisions about the cooperative. And they also understand that they can't provide goods or services beyond the level of income of the average Cuban, which is very low. I mean, Cubans have the inverse of what we have in the United States. In the United States, through our private system, we have to pay for almost everything. Housing, food, education, et cetera. In Cuba, it's really the opposite. Health and education are completely free for life. 85% of the people own their own homes. There are still subsidies for food. I was in Cuba in January and I paid the equivalent of 5 cents to get on a bus. And so on the other hand, the actual income of Cubans is very low. And I think that's one reason why a lot of young Cubans want to leave Cuba. Because they're listening to Miami and they're ready to buy their Nike shoes and they can't buy them in Cuba.

A (27:55)

But in other words, you're telling me that the workers, if they're also their own bosses, understand the limits of what they can pay in wages relative to everything else to keep the enterprise going.

B (28:05)

Correct. And this is a highly integrated democratic system in Cuba. Ever since 1976, when people's power came into place, there's been a lot of participation throughout the local, provincial and federal levels in Cuba. And of course, they have mass organizations in Cuba that we can't even begin to dream of in the United States.

A (28:28)

Richard, as always, I wish I had more time to go into that, but I'm particularly grateful for your specifics about Cuba and also about Mondragon, because they help make it real and concrete how we can get from where we are to the vision of human agenda. Thank you very much.

B (28:45)

Thank you.

A (28:46)

And thank you all for being part of this. I hope you found it as interesting as I did, and I look forward to speaking with you again next week.