Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

Episode: Using Unemployment Against Workers
Date: March 5, 2020

Episode Overview

In this episode, economist Richard D. Wolff examines how unemployment serves as a tool to discipline and control workers within the capitalist system. The episode begins with a series of updates highlighting economic inequalities and systemic issues in the U.S. and abroad, followed by an in-depth interview with Dr. Gertrude Schaffner Goldberg, chair of the National Jobs for All Network. Together, they discuss the history, feasibility, and necessity of guaranteeing employment for all, and how unemployment functions as more than just a statistic—it is a mechanism used to maintain power dynamics in society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maternal Death Rates and Public Health (00:13 - 03:00)

• Wolff begins by contrasting the U.S. maternal death rate with that of Europe, stating it is "four to six times larger" in the United States.
• He attributes this to three main factors: poor general health, poor heart health, and poor pregnancy care.
• Quote:
  Richard Wolff (02:20): "What an extraordinary comment. And what a way to contrast the claims of Mr. Trump and the GOP that we have a great economy. Think about it."

2. Wealth Inequality and Social Commentary (03:01 - 10:08)

• Wolff discusses Thomas Piketty’s research on capitalism’s tendency to increase inequality unless challenged by "revolt from below."
• Cites Pope Francis’s remarks on the intolerable gap between extreme wealth and poverty:
  • Quote:
    Pope Francis (as cited by Wolff, 03:50): "If extreme poverty exists amid riches which are also extreme, it is because we have allowed a gap to grow, to become the largest in history."
• Contrasts opulence (e.g., $48,000 Valentine’s Day hotel package) with widespread poverty.
• Comments on Jeff Bezos’s $10 billion climate initiative, arguing workers who create Amazon’s wealth have no say in its distribution.
  • Quote:
    Wolff (08:17): "We live in a society in which the hundreds of thousands of people who make Amazon what it is... have no say in what is done with the wealth of their labor helped to produce. Instead, we allow one man to decide... like a king or an emperor, which we may have thought we got rid of hundreds of years ago."

3. The MeToo Movement Reaches the Banking Sector (10:08 - 12:45)

• News on Wells Fargo ending mandatory arbitration for harassment complaints after MeToo-related pressure.
• Case against PNC Bank: Damara Scott was awarded $2.4 million for sexual harassment by a bank client, with evidence the bank knew but failed to protect her.
  • Quote:
    Richard Wolff (12:01): "When banks directly or indirectly accept or require or tolerate sexual harassment, the bank is acting effectively like a pimp acts."
• Notes an increase in female bankers coming forward after this precedent.

4. Pension Reforms in France and Corporate Influence (12:46 - 14:00)

• French President Macron (dubbed "President Trump Lite") meets with BlackRock CEO Larry Fink amid protests over pension reform.
• Describes France's low elderly poverty rate compared to the U.S. and the general public’s aversion to stock investment.
• Wolff highlights the cozy relationship between government and global finance, driven by profit motives rather than public good.

5. The Collapse of Newsweek (14:01 - 14:30)

• Brief history of Newsweek’s rise and fall; from 3.3 million subscribers at its peak to 100,000 by 2015, ending in scandal involving money laundering and corruption.

Interview: Dr. Gertrude Schaffner Goldberg – The Politics and Realities of Full Employment

Introduction and Background (15:21 - 16:27)

• Dr. Goldberg: Chair and co-founder of the National Jobs for All Network, professor emerita, lifelong activist, and author specializing in labor issues and the New Deal.

The Job Guarantee and Its Rationale (16:31 - 19:20)

• Trudy Goldberg (16:44): "We think that full employment—now called a job guarantee—we said 'jobs for all' because we thought that really said what it means—is really so fundamental to economic equity and justice. Franklin Roosevelt called it the first and most fundamental of economic rights."
• Ties guarantee of employment to realization of other rights: housing, health care, education.
• Proposes leveraging public works (à la New Deal) to address community needs and sustainability while providing work.

Unemployment as Worker Discipline (19:20 - 21:12)

• Wolff and Goldberg discuss how employers use the threat of unemployment to control workers.
• Wolff (19:23): "It’s always seemed to me... the employer is almost in the position of terrorizing the employee... the fear that your job could be suddenly taken away from you is a very powerful weapon. Even if it’s never used, the mere threat that it could be used is probably more often at play than the act itself."

Historical Attempts at Full Employment (21:12 - 23:44)

• Goldberg recounts the U.S.’s only true full employment during WWII; postwar efforts fell short due to lack of political will and economic circumstances.
• Full employment is often undermined by fears among elites that it diminishes worker discipline.
• Goldberg (23:40): "You need a reserve army of the unemployed, as they used to say."

Unemployment Data: The "Iceberg Effect" (23:56 - 27:50)

• Official low unemployment rates are misleading; actual joblessness is much higher when including underemployed, discouraged, and part-time workers.
• Cites recent (circa 2020) numbers:
  • 5.9 million officially unemployed (3.6% rate)
  • 4.2 million involuntary part-timers
  • 4.9 million discouraged/job-wanters
  • Total: ~15 million affected, disproportionately impacting Black workers and young people.
  • Goldberg (26:10): "We really need full employment to fill this gap."

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On unemployment’s function:
  Wolff (19:23): "...the employer is almost in the position of terrorizing the employee... The mere threat that it could be used is probably more often at play than the act itself."
• On societal power dynamics:
  Wolff (20:35): "...precisely because we don’t guarantee a job, it means when you’re fired, you’re in deep, deep trouble. Deep trouble."
• On capitalism’s need for unemployment:
  Goldberg (23:40): "You need a reserve army of the unemployed, as they used to say."
• On true extent of joblessness:
  Goldberg (26:10): "We really need full employment to fill this gap."

Important Timestamps

• Maternal Death Rates, Public Health Critique: 00:13 – 03:00
• Inequality, Piketty, Pope Francis, Bezos: 03:01 – 10:08
• #MeToo in Banking: 10:08 – 12:45
• French Pensions & BlackRock: 12:46 – 14:00
• Newsweek Scandal: 14:01 – 14:30
• Interview with Trudy Goldberg Begins: 15:21
• Explaining Full Employment/Job Guarantee: 16:43 – 19:20
• Discipline via Unemployment: 19:20 – 21:12
• History of Full Employment Campaigns: 21:12 – 23:44
• Unemployment Statistics & Their Limits: 23:56 – 27:50
• Closing Remarks: 27:51 – 28:53

Episode Tone and Style

Richard Wolff maintains his signature incisive, critical tone, blending economic analysis with sharp social commentary and a sense of humor (e.g., comparing CEOs to “kings or emperors”). Dr. Goldberg complements this with well-grounded historical and statistical knowledge, delivered in a straightforward, activist voice.

Summary Takeaway

This episode exposes how the structure of unemployment is weaponized against workers, maintaining inequality and power imbalances inherent in capitalism. The discussion urges listeners to question why employment isn’t treated as a right and highlights the transformative potential of a universal job guarantee—both for worker dignity and for society at large.