Podcast Summary: Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff – “What Marx & Marxism Offer Us Today”
Date: March 10, 2022
Host: Richard D. Wolff (Democracy at Work)
Episode Overview
In this special episode, Richard D. Wolff explores the ongoing relevance of Marx and Marxism in understanding and addressing today’s economic and societal crises, particularly within the United States. Through a clear, thought-provoking critique, Wolff outlines how Marxian analysis exposes capitalism’s mechanisms, its historical context, its internal contradictions, and the potential for systemic alternatives. The episode invites listeners to reconsider common assumptions about capitalism’s permanence and urges examination of fundamentally different ways to organize the economy that evade the pitfalls of prior systems.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Framing the Big Question
[00:10–02:50]
- Wolff frames the central question: “What does Marx and Marxism have to offer us today?”
- Marxism is presented as a “critical approach,” a tool for those “who have had enough of capitalism.”
- Marx’s core idea: “We can and we should do better than capitalism.”
- His critique anticipates improvements over the current system, offering alternative frameworks to those dissatisfied with the status quo.
2. Capitalism as a Historical, Not Eternal, System
[02:50–06:10]
- Marxism’s foundational insight: Capitalism, like all previous economic systems (slavery, feudalism), is temporary.
- Quote:
“Capitalism...has a history. It's born, it evolves over time, and then it passes away to be replaced by something else... Marxism insists that it's going to happen to capitalism, too.” [03:30, Wolff]
- Wolff stresses the burden of proof lies with those claiming capitalism will last forever, not those, like Marx, who argue it will change.
3. The Surplus Problem: A Universal Economic Dilemma
[06:10–16:30]
- Every system must address the “surplus” problem: How the work of producers supports non-producers (children, the elderly, the sick, as well as elites).
- Quote:
“There has to be a surplus. This is Marx's word, a surplus. What workers produce over and above what they themselves consume...” [08:20, Wolff]
- Different societies (slavery, feudalism, capitalism) solve this with different modes of surplus appropriation.
- In slavery, masters take all output, returning enough for slaves' subsistence.
- In feudalism, lords appropriate serfs’ surplus.
- In capitalism, employers extract surplus from employees (workers).
- The foundational structure—producers generating a surplus appropriated by a minority—persists through systems.
4. The Employer–Employee Relation: Continuity and Change
[16:30–21:00]
- “We don't have to do that. We don't need a master, we don't need a lord, and we don't need an employer. The workers could always have done this on their own.” [20:10, Wolff]
- Marx’s critical punchline: The persistence of a minority appropriating surplus is not a necessity.
- Even as capitalism abolished slavery and feudalism's forms, it reconstituted an exploitative division via employer–employee relationships.
5. Workplace Democracy as the Marxian Alternative
[21:00–27:00]
- The real breakthrough is not swapping private employers for government officials, but democratizing the workplace itself.
- Quote:
“Make a community out of the workplace. Rather than a divided, tension-ridden master-slave, lord-serf, employer-employee, make it a community. And by the way, this word community, that's what the word communism initially meant for Marx.” [22:15, Wolff]
- Wolff frames the worker cooperative (worker co-op) as Marx’s logical alternative to capitalist organization.
- Reiterates democracy must not exclude the economic sphere:
“If you’re a democrat with a small d, you believe in democracy, well then Marx's argument ought to appeal to you right off the bat because he's talking about effectively democratizing the enterprise.” [23:00, Wolff]
- Historical precedents: Ancient societies, Native American tribes, and others practiced communal decision-making over surplus and production.
6. Contradictions of Capitalism
[27:00–33:50]
- Wolff outlines Marx’s identification of systemic contradictions, primarily:
- Capitalists constantly seek to lower labor costs for higher profits (cut wages, mechanization, intensifying work).
- Quote:
“If you don't give money to the workers, they're the majority. They're your market...what you gained in profit by paying them less, you lose because you can't sell your output. This is a conundrum.” [30:00, Wolff]
- Tendency for profitability to result in greater inequality, concentrating wealth and ultimately undermining effective demand.
- Reference to Thomas Piketty’s work as a modern empirical validation of Marx’s points:
“Capitalism, until the people rise up and stop it, produces ever greater inequality.” [32:10, Wolff]
- These contradictions strain the system and, left unresolved, threaten its survival.
7. Mainstream Economics vs. Marxian Economics
[33:50–37:00]
- Mainstream economics omits the concept of surplus, viewing the economy as atomized individuals rather than a system with structured surplus flows.
- Critique of the “just desserts” ideology:
“The modern equivalent is if you have a bad job and you have a low income, that's because that's what you deserve. It's your fault.” [35:20, Wolff]
- Wolff laments the absence of Marxian analysis from education and public discourse:
“In this country, we are afraid as a nation of the Marxian idea...we are the poorer. That's all.” [36:10, Wolff]
- Argues this intellectual limitation handicaps society as it struggles with deepening crises.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Critical Possibility:
“His basic idea was we can and we should do better than capitalism.” [01:10, Wolff]
-
On Capitalism’s Place in History:
“Isn't the burden on those of you who want to imagine it will last forever, rather than the burden on me who imagines it'll be like every other system we've ever had in the history of the human race?” [03:58, Wolff]
-
On the Surplus Structure:
“A mass of people doing the work, producing that surplus as happens in all societies, but giving it to a tiny minority.” [17:20, Wolff]
-
On True Systemic Change:
“The real breakthrough that Marx's argument shows us is...make the workplace undivided...make it a community, a self-governing, democratic community. Everybody has one vote.” [22:00, Wolff]
-
On Mainstream Economics' Blindspot:
“In that mainstream economics, there is no surplus. There is no question about some people producing a surplus for others...They just pretend it isn’t there.” [34:10, Wolff]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [00:10] Opening & Framing Marxism’s Relevance
- [02:50] Capitalism as a Transitory System
- [06:10] The Surplus Problem in Human Societies
- [13:30] Surplus Distribution: Slavery, Feudalism, Capitalism
- [17:20] The Employer–Employee Structure
- [20:10] Why Exploitative Systems Persist
- [21:00] Democratizing the Workplace / Worker Co-ops
- [27:00] Contradictions of Capitalism
- [32:10] Inequality and Capitalism’s Tendency
- [34:10] Mainstream vs. Marxian Economics
- [36:10] Call for Open Discussion of Marxism
Tone and Delivery
Wolff’s language is approachable and instructional, striving for clarity and inviting critical thought. His tone is passionate but measured, openly addressing economic injustices and the value of examining alternatives. Real-world analogies (like the chair factory or American labor statistics) lend immediacy to his analysis, grounding abstract concepts in everyday experience.
Conclusion
In this comprehensive overview, Richard D. Wolff makes the case that Marxism not only offers a powerful critique of capitalism and its historical predecessors, but also provides a framework for imagining and building more democratic and participatory economic arrangements. The episode underlines both the enduring value and the contemporary urgency of Marxian analysis in the face of deepening inequality and economic dysfunction, particularly in the United States. Wolff calls for renewed public engagement with Marxist ideas as an essential resource for envisioning a better society.