EdTalks to Viewber Business Development & Account Manager, Chris – “Fees at 7.5% plus VAT, there will be people spitting out their teas & coffees!” - Ed Talks - UK Property Podcast

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[00:01]
A
Okay, so welcome to the latest edition of EdTalks. This is a slightly unusual one from our perspective, one which we're hoping to do a little bit more of, which is to talk to some of the key people at or within the viewber organization and find out what makes them tick, where they come from, so that you know when you're contacting us who our guys are. And frankly, there's no one more important within the team than Chris Fife, who here on the recording says viewer Business development team. Very professional, Chris. I like that. But Chris has now been with us for how long? Chris?
[00:37]
B
Well, it's going on just over two years. It's been a very quick two years, Ed.
[00:42]
A
It has been a very quick two years, I have to say, and it's been a very exciting two years for us, I suppose, if you think about what's been going on for the last two years, it's been a particularly exciting couple of years. For people listening, it's as well to remember that clearly. Everyone remembers two years ago, the Pandemic started as a business we've had to close twice, reopen, do all sorts of things within a very difficult time frame. So Chris's job within the organization is as our key account manager. But an awful lot of what he's learned over the last couple of years by talking to people in all sorts of different sectors of the industry, I think it'd be useful to find out a bit more. So, Chris, clearly you're not English. Anyone who's listened to your introduction there will just know that straight away. So tell us a little bit about your career journey.
[01:31]
B
Yeah, I've been identified as Australian, I think as a New Zealander, but I am definitely South African. I know that from birth. I've been living in the UK around about three years as. As I said with Vuba, I've been with us just over two years. My background is very much from the early days was banking, Believe it or not. I started my career journey in a big four bank in South Africa as a financial consultant. And that's where I really got introduced to dealing with mortgages and origination of mortgages in South Africa. So my background comes from banking. Back then, banking was a lot different as far as the training that went into their staff. It was ongoing and I went through different job roles working for one of the big four banks in South Africa, where I moved closer to mainly dealing with property in business development, basically securing loans, home loans, mortgages for estate agents in the market. And that's where I really got the interest in the property market from working with estate agents. And around about 2004, my dad also had background in banking, he was in senior management and he decided, let's get out of the banking environment and work for ourselves. And. And we started a small real estate agency which became franchised at some time.
[03:14]
A
So how does agency difference. I'm always fascinated by this. How does agency difference in Africa from the way you've come to learn it over here?
[03:24]
B
Look, I think it's not much different from the UK market. It is obviously changing over time, but there are still your high street agents that operate very effectively in South Africa and that's who we were competing against. We were a smaller agency dealing with high street agencies. But there's, you know, as, as the days went on, there were a lot more smaller agencies that became established and also a lot more online presence. And the market also started to change. Where there was a lot of online agents, they were operating in their smaller environments and doing very well. So I think in a way the property also started to change in South Africa before it started changing in the uk. Obviously, the UK property market being very traditional in the early days and I think South Africa has tended to shrug that off a lot quicker.
[04:25]
A
What about fees? What did you charge in South Africa?
[04:28]
B
Well, 7.5% plus VAT was the standard agency.
[04:32]
A
Seven and a half percent plus VAT. God, there'll be people spitting into their coughing out coffees and veering off the road in their cars if they're listening to seven and a half percent.
[04:43]
B
Exactly. Seven and a half percent plus VAT was the standard commission. Obviously, depending on what type of mandate you conducted the sell with, it could be either an open mandate where there probably could be a bit of negotiation, where there's various agents working on it, but the standard fee was seven and a half percent plus vat.
[05:03]
A
And okay, so clearly you enjoyed that and at some point you decided you wanted to come to the uk. But in terms of, how would you describe the process that brought you to the uk? I mean, in terms of, you know, mistakes, changes, losses in your career, what did you feel you. How did you overcome those sort of challenges when you, when you were working?
[05:28]
B
Well, obviously, South Africa being very diverse. My family is in the uk. I was South African born and my wife is a British citizen and also have family in the uk. My parents are also British as well. And it was getting to a point where we decided to explore something new and left South Africa obviously very challenging because I was obviously an estate agent back then. And I also got involved in business broking, setting up businesses. So it was really much setting up everything and coming to a country where obviously holidayed before and leaving sunny South Africa for a climate which is totally different. And also the people are not different than South Africans, I think. I don't think it's a South African trait, but sometimes we've been said, we come across far more pushy and shoot from the hip, which works well in this type of environment. I think we know what we want.
[06:31]
A
Well, I think it's been great actually. I've really enjoyed working with you because actually so often in the uk, when you employ English people, native English people, to work in businesses, regional accents play such a big part of people's perception of you. You know, when I talk to some people, they go, oh, you're terribly posh. And equally things can be the other way around. People may not say it, but that's what they think. And what I like about the South African accent is it sort of cuts across all of that. Have you found that?
[07:00]
B
It does. Funny enough, I was at a wedding this past weekend and I called up obviously the hotel just to confirm my booking and one of, one of my friends, obviously, who's a, a British citizen, says, you sounding so posh on the phone when you speak to them. I said, no, I'm just talking normally.
[07:16]
A
At the end of the day, this.
[07:17]
B
Is my South African accent. So yeah, you, you are right. The voice and, and obviously the South African accent works well, can be a bit difficult. I don't think the Scottish understand this. We don't really communicate well together as far as both of our accents. I failed to understand the Scottish and the Scottish.
[07:37]
A
Well, we'll come on to that in a minute because I know your remit is completely nationwide and I know you talk sorts of people on a daily basis.
[07:43]
B
Most definitely.
[07:44]
A
But in terms of your life before you were at viewbird, did you have any particularly big wins or achievements that you were proud of? Anything that you like?
[07:51]
B
Yes. Look, from the SAT agency days, I moved on to business broking. It was totally a new environment where I became a business transfer agent. We be valued and sold businesses as well. So also got a hell of a lot of diverse background from that and being part of a. A franchise as well. We were one of the top performing business broker in broking franchises part of. In South Africa. As far as commission earning. Earning. We were also a top performing commission earner. So I, I had good success working with in. It was a family business myself and my Father. It was really much a two blank show and we had good success for many years in that type of environment. So I would probably keep that as a feather in my cap from what I've done in the past.
[08:41]
A
Yeah, well, I think that's, you know, it clearly shows with you when we're working and you know, you and I work quite a lot together but actually because it's so fast paced, we never really had a chance to talk about what inspired you and all that sort of thing. I can remember our first chat when I think, I think we had in the Crown Plaza in Sunny Basin.
[09:03]
B
That's right, yes.
[09:04]
A
When you came down to talk to us and it was instantly clear that you were inspired to get on with whatever it was you were going to do and focus on it. But for those who may have come across you within the Viewberg. Well, from outside, just tell us what you do at Viber.
[09:25]
B
Well, my role, when I was originally employed, I was employed as a key account manager, which the roles changed. I wouldn't say the title's changed. I'm now account manager. But I like to see myself as the bridge between what our services offer and what the client wants. I'm looking after over a thousand B2B clients, making sure that they're happy that the service we offer is making the requirements that they have and need and building those relationships obviously to expand on new services as well.
[10:12]
A
And I mean part of, I think what you've done certainly in the past has been to suggest new services. But what. And when you're talking to people, you can then suggest what they do. And clearly, as most people listening to this will know, the easiest way to sell a service to someone is to sell another service to someone you already sell a service to.
[10:30]
B
Exactly.
[10:30]
A
And with recommendations. But clearly you spend most of your time, I would imagine, dealing with a few big clients. How have you found that process? Do you find there are times when you want to. Well, for those of you who are only listening to this, you won't see, but Chris doesn't have a huge amount of hair on the top of his head. So when I say pull your hair out, that's the wrong expression. But do you get times when you really do want to pull your hair out?
[10:59]
B
Look, it's been challenging. I think my banking days have afforded me some resilience. So I think even though I'm not known to be a patient person, but I am patient. And I think when you get to know your clients and your key contacts in those big organizations, I'm very keen to get to know them on a more personal level, not really a business level. So I try make it not all just business when I am speaking to them and also not come across way too serious, which tends to help building those relationships.
[11:41]
A
Because it must have been very difficult, Chris, over the last couple of years. I mean, obviously the last two years has been. Well, it's been definitely virtual. But I think I'm right in saying that you have finally been out and seeing that the people who existed behind the screens are actually real.
[11:54]
B
It's starting to happen again and it was basically having to get used to those on site meetings again which have started again. But it was difficult obviously working from home. But I think Zoom teams did what they needed to do, which you know, often we had catch up meetings on, on either on Zoom with video or on teams which didn't stop the process of building relationship with those customers. But obviously I welcome the face to face visits again because they really do work well.
[12:32]
A
Okay, so tell us what you think it's like working at Vuba and what do you think of the team? So just be your opinions, be interesting.
[12:41]
B
Yes, you know, it's an exciting company. You know, I've been here, as I say over just over two years. The changes that I've seen are quite massive in the volumes that, that we actually are completing as far as appointments are concerned with new faces coming on board, team restructuring to obviously cater for volumes as they are increasing as well. And I really see Vuba as a tech business which we have a staff who prop up that tech business. And it's from your, our support team who do a fantastic job in making sure bookings are confirmed. Our membership team who are really much our caretakers for all our viewers out there, our quality assurance team that looks after obviously service issues and responds so well to, to any service challenges. And also obviously our business development team which obviously is in charge of bringing on new business and maintaining the relationships with those clients. It's an exciting company. Even though we are all working from home, we are regularly in touch with each other, whether it be on teams, whether it be on Zoom meetings or just team meetings on a weekly basis. Exciting company. And just to see, you know, be part of a organization that really has a service that's needed out in the market. It makes it a bit easier to try and sell obviously the service offering.
[14:18]
A
So what are your biggest frustrations then when you're talking to people about Veeber? What is it that you feel you'd like to get over but you feel you sometimes struggle to.
[14:28]
B
Frustrations are obviously just a time. Whether it be. My time obviously is look after over a thousand business development B2B clients. So it's really just having sufficient time to obviously assist my client base. From the client side I find obviously high street agents, online agents, auction houses, we've got such a variety of clients. Time is also issue for them and it's a matter of just trying to get through as much information as possible in the shortest time frame. And it's very difficult because obviously some stuff is missed along the way which will require a follow up meeting at some time. But I think just everybody is so busy out there in the property market, they just want to get as much information in as possible in the shortest amount of time just so they can get on with what they need to do.
[15:23]
A
I mean your natural default is to be polite. And I'm older and sometimes not quite so polite. I know one of the biggest frustrations you have, particularly in the light of what you just said about time, is that some people don't turn up for appointments when they're being made, which must be very frustrating.
[15:41]
B
It is. You know, I would say it was more in the, in my earlier days. It obviously is very frustrating because of, you know, when myself or any of the team members booking a meeting, it blocks out our calendar so we can't accept any other appointments in during that time. So it's basically closing the door on somebody else who may need a call or a catch up meeting. But saying that I think our name is growing out there, our clients are getting to know who people are and I think our time is more valued at the end of the day. And recently I haven't had many instances where a client has not arrived at.
[16:26]
A
Okay, that's good to hear. So if you had any insider knowledge, stuff that you've sort of experience that you've gained and how you think you could approach clients better, is there anything in particular that you would like people to know?
[16:41]
B
I think we're offering over more than 20 services and there's really much a service in there for every client out there. And I think the biggest question and obviously challenge is just cost as far as the service. Any company out there, no matter what vertical in, whether you're an auction house, estate agent, it all comes down to costs at the end of the day. And obviously we've got our set standard services, but we have got services which can make it far more cost effective as far as open houses as far as booking and viewing assistant and it's really up to you as the user to go and manage those services to reduce cost. Obviously we can put everything in front of you and say, book a viewing, book a open house, but, you know, if it comes down to the user and more management of what type of services you are booking, it's going to be far more cost effective for a client.
[17:35]
A
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's a very, very good point. And I know from, certainly from my point of view, having been doing this banging the drum now for the thick end of six years, I'm always trying to encourage people to look at value rather than cost of the service. But, and I think as estate agent, as the average age of people who are running a lot of the estate agencies out there gets lower and lower, they're understanding more and more about how tech can help them. I was interested to hear you say that you think viewber is a tech platform. I mean, obviously there are three elements to it for me. There are people, as you say, supporting the tech, there's the tech, and then there are obviously all our viewers. Where do you think Vuba might be in five or ten years time?
[18:15]
B
Well, I just, you know, from what I see, we've got that network of viewers that are out there that are, are excellent. They, they are trained and looked after them. You know, you know, we've incorporated new services into the viewba network that have, have really gone, gone off, gone down pretty well. And I think we're gonna possibly see some, some new, new types of clients. I'm hoping we'll get closer to the insurance industry because we have that network out there where we can offer services for the insurance industry. But, you know, with that network in place, you know, we are very much unrestricted. It's a matter of just making sure that our viewers can conduct that particular service that's required. But otherwise we're happy to incorporate new services. I'm hoping at some time that we'll see expansion once we have our feet firmly on the ground that we can possibly look at, identify, you know, other countries where there could be a surge in the property market, where we can have this, a similar type of Yuba network incorporated into that company and working remotely just shows you that it can be done from anywhere in the world, you know, how we operate currently.
[19:29]
A
Yeah, well, I think that's, that's a very good, I think that's a very good point. So you talked a little bit about how the property market was changing in South Africa. How do you think the property market's changing? And when you say property market, I know that you're referring really to the way estate agents work rather than necessarily the property market. So how do you think that estate agency is changing from your experience in the uk?
[19:52]
B
Well, I see new estate agents also more online hybrid agents that are obviously inquiring with VUBA for services. They've left High Street. So there's definitely still is a move from a lot of the agents to an online hybrid type of role where they, they starting off on their own and taking that leap, having some sort of, some of them having franchise agreements signed with, with, with bigger, bigger, bigger groups to have a bit more value in the name that they're trading under and also obviously the systems and the network. But I think we're going to see a lot of movement from, from High Street. I don't think the traditional High Street's going to go away. I think there will still be always a place for, for the traditional High street, obviously for the seller that wants to go and pay the fee and prefer that personal service. But I think there is going to be a big change as we move forward, especially with also the type of properties that have been built, your built to rent, your participation ownership, your block properties that are going up. It just doesn't make sense to have a High street type of sale on those type of properties where it's going to become more your online hybrids that they're going to be dealing with and hopefully rely on our networks like VUBA to assisting with services, full services relating to the sale or inspections of those properties.
[21:36]
A
Okay, well there you are, you heard it from Chris. The future of estate agency. More, more perhaps. And I agree, I very much agree that I think if two things for me, if properties become more homogenized is completely the wrong word, but if they become easier to manage on the one hand, and if they become, if the services that they're going to need can be more easily provided and the conveyancing process for selling them becomes quicker and quicker and quicker. You can imagine that if you could buy a property it at the push of a button, things will be very different. And I think from the viewba perspective, I just wonder whether there's anything else. From a viewba perspective, if you wanted to encourage people to consider using vueba, from your experience, what do you think is the line that normally really gets people interested?
[22:29]
B
I think also it depends on the type of client I'm dealing with, the vertical I'm dealing with. But you don't want to replace the negotiators out there, I think we're more for cover. So depending on the type of client I'm speaking to, it's not necessarily outsourcing all your viewings, it's a matter of just using us as a cushion to make sure that you can still conduct viewings, open houses on weekends when possibly your offices are closed or you just want to give staff off. So that comes across very well where we have many clients that are booking services for 3, 4 hours on Saturdays and Sundays regularly every week to manage overflow. So that's really a positive when I'm speaking to those type of clients. But, you know, just as far as having a service we can offer throughout the uk, you know, offer services in Scotland, in Wales, where you can go and view a property, get a report of a property before you take that property on the market. For us to manage viewings, manage open houses, to go and have professional photography done, it's a one stop shop where you can literally sit in your office and actually facilitate a sale. Which, you know, at the end of the day just makes sense. If you want to expand in your marketing, grow your area, why not bring VUEBO on board as a partner? We don't charge you a monthly fee. It's a, it's an opt in, opt out service and use it when you want to use it.
[24:05]
A
Well, I think that sums it up really nicely, Chris. I think, you know, the fact from our point of view is. I know whenever, from, from when I first started this, we didn't want to take over, we just wanted to be a, I like that expression, a cushion. And I think that being part of being in partnership with people, particularly on the estate agency side, is worthwhile. Listen, I really appreciate your taking the time. My dogs are going berserk, which seems to imply there's someone at the door. So this would seem to be a good time to break. And thank you very much for your time.
[24:35]
B
Thank you, Ed.

Summary6 min read

Ed Talks - UK Property Podcast: Detailed Summary

Episode Title:
"Fees at 7.5% plus VAT, there will be people spitting out their teas & coffees!"

Host:
Ed Mead

Guest:
Chris Fife, Business Development & Account Manager at Viewber

Release Date:
March 10, 2022

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Ed Talks - UK Property Podcast, host Ed Mead delves into an insightful conversation with Chris Fife, the Business Development and Account Manager at Viewber. The episode titled “Fees at 7.5% plus VAT, there will be people spitting out their teas & coffees!” explores Chris's professional journey, his experiences in both the South African and UK property markets, and his role in shaping Viewber's services.

Chris Fife’s Career Journey

Background and Early Career

Chris begins by sharing his diverse background, highlighting his South African roots and experiences across different continents. Starting his career in banking, Chris worked as a financial consultant with one of South Africa's Big Four banks. This role introduced him to mortgages and the intricate processes of financial consulting within the property sector.

Transition to Real Estate

[01:31] Chris explains, “My background comes from banking… securing loans, home loans, mortgages for estate agents in the market. And that's where I really got the interest in the property market from working with estate agents.”

In 2004, Chris transitioned into the real estate sector alongside his father, establishing a small real estate agency that eventually became franchised. This shift marked the beginning of his deep dive into property business development.

Differences Between South African and UK Estate Agencies

Operating Models and Market Dynamics

Ed inquires about the differences between South African and UK estate agencies. Chris responds by noting the similarities but also the distinct evolutionary paths each market has taken.

[03:24] "It is obviously changing over time, but there are still your high street agents that operate very effectively in South Africa and that's who we were competing against."

He observes that South Africa embraced online agents and smaller agencies sooner than the UK, leading to a more dynamic and flexible market environment earlier on.

Discussion on Standard Fees: 7.5% plus VAT

Historical Fee Structures

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the standard commission fees in South Africa versus the UK.

[04:28] Chris states, "7.5% plus VAT was the standard agency commission."

Ed humorously remarks, “Seven and a half percent plus VAT. God, there'll be people spitting out their coffees and veering off the road in their cars if they're listening to seven and a half percent.”

Chris confirms the rigidity of this fee structure, explaining that while there was room for negotiation based on the type of mandate, 7.5% plus VAT was the norm.

Chris’s Role at Viewber: Responsibilities and Insights

Position and Responsibilities

Chris details his role at Viewber, emphasizing his position as the bridge between the company's services and client needs.

[09:25] He explains, “I’m looking after over a thousand B2B clients, making sure that the service we offer is making the requirements that they have and need and building those relationships.”

Client Engagement and Service Expansion

He highlights the importance of understanding client needs deeply to suggest appropriate services, enhancing both client satisfaction and business growth.

Working During the Pandemic: Virtual vs. Face-to-Face

Adaptation to Remote Work

The pandemic posed significant challenges, shifting much of the interaction to virtual platforms.

[11:54] Chris remarks, "Zoom and Teams did what they needed to do… but I welcome the face-to-face visits again because they really do work well."

He shares how adapting to virtual meetings helped maintain client relationships, but also expresses eagerness to return to in-person interactions, which he finds more effective for building trust and rapport.

Working at Viewber: Team and Company Insights

Company Growth and Team Dynamics

Chris provides an overview of Viewber's growth and the collaborative nature of the team.

[12:40] "It's an exciting company… staff who prop up that tech business, our support team… membership team… quality assurance team… business development team."

He emphasizes the seamless integration of technology and human support, which has been pivotal in scaling operations and meeting increasing client demands.

Remote Team Coordination

Despite working from home, Chris praises the effective communication facilitated through tools like Teams and Zoom, ensuring that the team remains cohesive and responsive.

Challenges and Frustrations in the Role

Time Management and Client Commitment

Chris candidly discusses the challenges of managing over a thousand B2B clients, where time is a precious resource.

[14:27] "It's really just having sufficient time to obviously assist my client base."

He also touches on the frustration of clients missing appointments, which disrupts scheduling and productivity. However, he notes an improvement as Viewber's reputation grows, leading to higher client commitment.

Future of Viewber and the Estate Agency Industry

Expansion and Technological Integration

Looking ahead, Chris envisions Viewber expanding its service offerings and possibly entering new markets, including the insurance industry.

[18:15] "We are very much unrestricted. It's a matter of just making sure that our viewers can conduct that particular service that's required."

He anticipates leveraging Viewber's robust network to introduce innovative services, catering to evolving market needs.

Evolution of Estate Agencies

Chris shares his perspective on the shifting landscape of estate agencies, predicting a continued move towards online and hybrid models.

[19:52] "There is going to be a big change as we move forward… online hybrids that they're going to be dealing with and hopefully rely on our networks like Viewber to assist with services."

He believes traditional high street agencies will coexist with more flexible, technology-driven models, especially for managing modern property types like built-to-rent and block properties.

Closing Remarks

Ed and Chris conclude the episode by reaffirming Viewber's role as a supportive partner for estate agencies, offering flexible and cost-effective services without the constraints of monthly fees. Ed appreciates Chris’s insights, highlighting the value of Viewber’s services in facilitating seamless property transactions.

[24:04] Ed summarizes, "You really make sense. If you want to expand in your marketing, grow your area, why not bring Viewber on board as a partner?"

Chris responds with gratitude, reinforcing the collaborative spirit that defines his approach at Viewber.

Notable Quotes

Chris Fife [04:28]:
"7.5% plus VAT was the standard agency commission."
Ed Mead [04:32]:
"Seven and a half percent plus VAT. God, there'll be people spitting out their coffees and veering off the road in their cars if they're listening to seven and a half percent."
Chris Fife [09:25]:
"I’m looking after over a thousand B2B clients, making sure that the service we offer is making the requirements that they have and need and building those relationships."
Chris Fife [14:27]:
"It's really just having sufficient time to obviously assist my client base."
Chris Fife [19:52]:
"There is going to be a big change as we move forward… online hybrids that they're going to be dealing with and hopefully rely on our networks like Viewber to assist with services."

Conclusion

This episode of Ed Talks - UK Property Podcast offers a comprehensive look into the evolving landscape of the property industry through the lens of Chris Fife’s experiences. From navigating different market dynamics in South Africa and the UK to addressing the challenges posed by the pandemic, Chris provides valuable insights into the future of estate agencies. Viewber emerges as a pivotal player, offering flexible solutions that cater to modern estate agencies’ needs, emphasizing the importance of technology and relationship-building in driving industry growth.

Loading summary

Transcript46 lines

[00:01]
A
Okay, so welcome to the latest edition of EdTalks. This is a slightly unusual one from our perspective, one which we're hoping to do a little bit more of, which is to talk to some of the key people at or within the viewber organization and find out what makes them tick, where they come from, so that you know when you're contacting us who our guys are. And frankly, there's no one more important within the team than Chris Fife, who here on the recording says viewer Business development team. Very professional, Chris. I like that. But Chris has now been with us for how long? Chris?
[00:37]
B
Well, it's going on just over two years. It's been a very quick two years, Ed.
[00:42]
A
It has been a very quick two years, I have to say, and it's been a very exciting two years for us, I suppose, if you think about what's been going on for the last two years, it's been a particularly exciting couple of years. For people listening, it's as well to remember that clearly. Everyone remembers two years ago, the Pandemic started as a business we've had to close twice, reopen, do all sorts of things within a very difficult time frame. So Chris's job within the organization is as our key account manager. But an awful lot of what he's learned over the last couple of years by talking to people in all sorts of different sectors of the industry, I think it'd be useful to find out a bit more. So, Chris, clearly you're not English. Anyone who's listened to your introduction there will just know that straight away. So tell us a little bit about your career journey.
[01:31]
B
Yeah, I've been identified as Australian, I think as a New Zealander, but I am definitely South African. I know that from birth. I've been living in the UK around about three years as. As I said with Vuba, I've been with us just over two years. My background is very much from the early days was banking, Believe it or not. I started my career journey in a big four bank in South Africa as a financial consultant. And that's where I really got introduced to dealing with mortgages and origination of mortgages in South Africa. So my background comes from banking. Back then, banking was a lot different as far as the training that went into their staff. It was ongoing and I went through different job roles working for one of the big four banks in South Africa, where I moved closer to mainly dealing with property in business development, basically securing loans, home loans, mortgages for estate agents in the market. And that's where I really got the interest in the property market from working with estate agents. And around about 2004, my dad also had background in banking, he was in senior management and he decided, let's get out of the banking environment and work for ourselves. And. And we started a small real estate agency which became franchised at some time.
[03:14]
A
So how does agency difference. I'm always fascinated by this. How does agency difference in Africa from the way you've come to learn it over here?
[03:24]
B
Look, I think it's not much different from the UK market. It is obviously changing over time, but there are still your high street agents that operate very effectively in South Africa and that's who we were competing against. We were a smaller agency dealing with high street agencies. But there's, you know, as, as the days went on, there were a lot more smaller agencies that became established and also a lot more online presence. And the market also started to change. Where there was a lot of online agents, they were operating in their smaller environments and doing very well. So I think in a way the property also started to change in South Africa before it started changing in the uk. Obviously, the UK property market being very traditional in the early days and I think South Africa has tended to shrug that off a lot quicker.
[04:25]
A
What about fees? What did you charge in South Africa?
[04:28]
B
Well, 7.5% plus VAT was the standard agency.
[04:32]
A
Seven and a half percent plus VAT. God, there'll be people spitting into their coughing out coffees and veering off the road in their cars if they're listening to seven and a half percent.
[04:43]
B
Exactly. Seven and a half percent plus VAT was the standard commission. Obviously, depending on what type of mandate you conducted the sell with, it could be either an open mandate where there probably could be a bit of negotiation, where there's various agents working on it, but the standard fee was seven and a half percent plus vat.
[05:03]
A
And okay, so clearly you enjoyed that and at some point you decided you wanted to come to the uk. But in terms of, how would you describe the process that brought you to the uk? I mean, in terms of, you know, mistakes, changes, losses in your career, what did you feel you. How did you overcome those sort of challenges when you, when you were working?
[05:28]
B
Well, obviously, South Africa being very diverse. My family is in the uk. I was South African born and my wife is a British citizen and also have family in the uk. My parents are also British as well. And it was getting to a point where we decided to explore something new and left South Africa obviously very challenging because I was obviously an estate agent back then. And I also got involved in business broking, setting up businesses. So it was really much setting up everything and coming to a country where obviously holidayed before and leaving sunny South Africa for a climate which is totally different. And also the people are not different than South Africans, I think. I don't think it's a South African trait, but sometimes we've been said, we come across far more pushy and shoot from the hip, which works well in this type of environment. I think we know what we want.
[06:31]
A
Well, I think it's been great actually. I've really enjoyed working with you because actually so often in the uk, when you employ English people, native English people, to work in businesses, regional accents play such a big part of people's perception of you. You know, when I talk to some people, they go, oh, you're terribly posh. And equally things can be the other way around. People may not say it, but that's what they think. And what I like about the South African accent is it sort of cuts across all of that. Have you found that?
[07:00]
B
It does. Funny enough, I was at a wedding this past weekend and I called up obviously the hotel just to confirm my booking and one of, one of my friends, obviously, who's a, a British citizen, says, you sounding so posh on the phone when you speak to them. I said, no, I'm just talking normally.
[07:16]
A
At the end of the day, this.
[07:17]
B
Is my South African accent. So yeah, you, you are right. The voice and, and obviously the South African accent works well, can be a bit difficult. I don't think the Scottish understand this. We don't really communicate well together as far as both of our accents. I failed to understand the Scottish and the Scottish.
[07:37]
A
Well, we'll come on to that in a minute because I know your remit is completely nationwide and I know you talk sorts of people on a daily basis.
[07:43]
B
Most definitely.
[07:44]
A
But in terms of your life before you were at viewbird, did you have any particularly big wins or achievements that you were proud of? Anything that you like?
[07:51]
B
Yes. Look, from the SAT agency days, I moved on to business broking. It was totally a new environment where I became a business transfer agent. We be valued and sold businesses as well. So also got a hell of a lot of diverse background from that and being part of a. A franchise as well. We were one of the top performing business broker in broking franchises part of. In South Africa. As far as commission earning. Earning. We were also a top performing commission earner. So I, I had good success working with in. It was a family business myself and my Father. It was really much a two blank show and we had good success for many years in that type of environment. So I would probably keep that as a feather in my cap from what I've done in the past.
[08:41]
A
Yeah, well, I think that's, you know, it clearly shows with you when we're working and you know, you and I work quite a lot together but actually because it's so fast paced, we never really had a chance to talk about what inspired you and all that sort of thing. I can remember our first chat when I think, I think we had in the Crown Plaza in Sunny Basin.
[09:03]
B
That's right, yes.
[09:04]
A
When you came down to talk to us and it was instantly clear that you were inspired to get on with whatever it was you were going to do and focus on it. But for those who may have come across you within the Viewberg. Well, from outside, just tell us what you do at Viber.
[09:25]
B
Well, my role, when I was originally employed, I was employed as a key account manager, which the roles changed. I wouldn't say the title's changed. I'm now account manager. But I like to see myself as the bridge between what our services offer and what the client wants. I'm looking after over a thousand B2B clients, making sure that they're happy that the service we offer is making the requirements that they have and need and building those relationships obviously to expand on new services as well.
[10:12]
A
And I mean part of, I think what you've done certainly in the past has been to suggest new services. But what. And when you're talking to people, you can then suggest what they do. And clearly, as most people listening to this will know, the easiest way to sell a service to someone is to sell another service to someone you already sell a service to.
[10:30]
B
Exactly.
[10:30]
A
And with recommendations. But clearly you spend most of your time, I would imagine, dealing with a few big clients. How have you found that process? Do you find there are times when you want to. Well, for those of you who are only listening to this, you won't see, but Chris doesn't have a huge amount of hair on the top of his head. So when I say pull your hair out, that's the wrong expression. But do you get times when you really do want to pull your hair out?
[10:59]
B
Look, it's been challenging. I think my banking days have afforded me some resilience. So I think even though I'm not known to be a patient person, but I am patient. And I think when you get to know your clients and your key contacts in those big organizations, I'm very keen to get to know them on a more personal level, not really a business level. So I try make it not all just business when I am speaking to them and also not come across way too serious, which tends to help building those relationships.
[11:41]
A
Because it must have been very difficult, Chris, over the last couple of years. I mean, obviously the last two years has been. Well, it's been definitely virtual. But I think I'm right in saying that you have finally been out and seeing that the people who existed behind the screens are actually real.
[11:54]
B
It's starting to happen again and it was basically having to get used to those on site meetings again which have started again. But it was difficult obviously working from home. But I think Zoom teams did what they needed to do, which you know, often we had catch up meetings on, on either on Zoom with video or on teams which didn't stop the process of building relationship with those customers. But obviously I welcome the face to face visits again because they really do work well.
[12:32]
A
Okay, so tell us what you think it's like working at Vuba and what do you think of the team? So just be your opinions, be interesting.
[12:41]
B
Yes, you know, it's an exciting company. You know, I've been here, as I say over just over two years. The changes that I've seen are quite massive in the volumes that, that we actually are completing as far as appointments are concerned with new faces coming on board, team restructuring to obviously cater for volumes as they are increasing as well. And I really see Vuba as a tech business which we have a staff who prop up that tech business. And it's from your, our support team who do a fantastic job in making sure bookings are confirmed. Our membership team who are really much our caretakers for all our viewers out there, our quality assurance team that looks after obviously service issues and responds so well to, to any service challenges. And also obviously our business development team which obviously is in charge of bringing on new business and maintaining the relationships with those clients. It's an exciting company. Even though we are all working from home, we are regularly in touch with each other, whether it be on teams, whether it be on Zoom meetings or just team meetings on a weekly basis. Exciting company. And just to see, you know, be part of a organization that really has a service that's needed out in the market. It makes it a bit easier to try and sell obviously the service offering.
[14:18]
A
So what are your biggest frustrations then when you're talking to people about Veeber? What is it that you feel you'd like to get over but you feel you sometimes struggle to.
[14:28]
B
Frustrations are obviously just a time. Whether it be. My time obviously is look after over a thousand business development B2B clients. So it's really just having sufficient time to obviously assist my client base. From the client side I find obviously high street agents, online agents, auction houses, we've got such a variety of clients. Time is also issue for them and it's a matter of just trying to get through as much information as possible in the shortest time frame. And it's very difficult because obviously some stuff is missed along the way which will require a follow up meeting at some time. But I think just everybody is so busy out there in the property market, they just want to get as much information in as possible in the shortest amount of time just so they can get on with what they need to do.
[15:23]
A
I mean your natural default is to be polite. And I'm older and sometimes not quite so polite. I know one of the biggest frustrations you have, particularly in the light of what you just said about time, is that some people don't turn up for appointments when they're being made, which must be very frustrating.
[15:41]
B
It is. You know, I would say it was more in the, in my earlier days. It obviously is very frustrating because of, you know, when myself or any of the team members booking a meeting, it blocks out our calendar so we can't accept any other appointments in during that time. So it's basically closing the door on somebody else who may need a call or a catch up meeting. But saying that I think our name is growing out there, our clients are getting to know who people are and I think our time is more valued at the end of the day. And recently I haven't had many instances where a client has not arrived at.
[16:26]
A
Okay, that's good to hear. So if you had any insider knowledge, stuff that you've sort of experience that you've gained and how you think you could approach clients better, is there anything in particular that you would like people to know?
[16:41]
B
I think we're offering over more than 20 services and there's really much a service in there for every client out there. And I think the biggest question and obviously challenge is just cost as far as the service. Any company out there, no matter what vertical in, whether you're an auction house, estate agent, it all comes down to costs at the end of the day. And obviously we've got our set standard services, but we have got services which can make it far more cost effective as far as open houses as far as booking and viewing assistant and it's really up to you as the user to go and manage those services to reduce cost. Obviously we can put everything in front of you and say, book a viewing, book a open house, but, you know, if it comes down to the user and more management of what type of services you are booking, it's going to be far more cost effective for a client.
[17:35]
A
Yeah, I think, yeah, that's a very, very good point. And I know from, certainly from my point of view, having been doing this banging the drum now for the thick end of six years, I'm always trying to encourage people to look at value rather than cost of the service. But, and I think as estate agent, as the average age of people who are running a lot of the estate agencies out there gets lower and lower, they're understanding more and more about how tech can help them. I was interested to hear you say that you think viewber is a tech platform. I mean, obviously there are three elements to it for me. There are people, as you say, supporting the tech, there's the tech, and then there are obviously all our viewers. Where do you think Vuba might be in five or ten years time?
[18:15]
B
Well, I just, you know, from what I see, we've got that network of viewers that are out there that are, are excellent. They, they are trained and looked after them. You know, you know, we've incorporated new services into the viewba network that have, have really gone, gone off, gone down pretty well. And I think we're gonna possibly see some, some new, new types of clients. I'm hoping we'll get closer to the insurance industry because we have that network out there where we can offer services for the insurance industry. But, you know, with that network in place, you know, we are very much unrestricted. It's a matter of just making sure that our viewers can conduct that particular service that's required. But otherwise we're happy to incorporate new services. I'm hoping at some time that we'll see expansion once we have our feet firmly on the ground that we can possibly look at, identify, you know, other countries where there could be a surge in the property market, where we can have this, a similar type of Yuba network incorporated into that company and working remotely just shows you that it can be done from anywhere in the world, you know, how we operate currently.
[19:29]
A
Yeah, well, I think that's, that's a very good, I think that's a very good point. So you talked a little bit about how the property market was changing in South Africa. How do you think the property market's changing? And when you say property market, I know that you're referring really to the way estate agents work rather than necessarily the property market. So how do you think that estate agency is changing from your experience in the uk?
[19:52]
B
Well, I see new estate agents also more online hybrid agents that are obviously inquiring with VUBA for services. They've left High Street. So there's definitely still is a move from a lot of the agents to an online hybrid type of role where they, they starting off on their own and taking that leap, having some sort of, some of them having franchise agreements signed with, with, with bigger, bigger, bigger groups to have a bit more value in the name that they're trading under and also obviously the systems and the network. But I think we're going to see a lot of movement from, from High Street. I don't think the traditional High Street's going to go away. I think there will still be always a place for, for the traditional High street, obviously for the seller that wants to go and pay the fee and prefer that personal service. But I think there is going to be a big change as we move forward, especially with also the type of properties that have been built, your built to rent, your participation ownership, your block properties that are going up. It just doesn't make sense to have a High street type of sale on those type of properties where it's going to become more your online hybrids that they're going to be dealing with and hopefully rely on our networks like VUBA to assisting with services, full services relating to the sale or inspections of those properties.
[21:36]
A
Okay, well there you are, you heard it from Chris. The future of estate agency. More, more perhaps. And I agree, I very much agree that I think if two things for me, if properties become more homogenized is completely the wrong word, but if they become easier to manage on the one hand, and if they become, if the services that they're going to need can be more easily provided and the conveyancing process for selling them becomes quicker and quicker and quicker. You can imagine that if you could buy a property it at the push of a button, things will be very different. And I think from the viewba perspective, I just wonder whether there's anything else. From a viewba perspective, if you wanted to encourage people to consider using vueba, from your experience, what do you think is the line that normally really gets people interested?
[22:29]
B
I think also it depends on the type of client I'm dealing with, the vertical I'm dealing with. But you don't want to replace the negotiators out there, I think we're more for cover. So depending on the type of client I'm speaking to, it's not necessarily outsourcing all your viewings, it's a matter of just using us as a cushion to make sure that you can still conduct viewings, open houses on weekends when possibly your offices are closed or you just want to give staff off. So that comes across very well where we have many clients that are booking services for 3, 4 hours on Saturdays and Sundays regularly every week to manage overflow. So that's really a positive when I'm speaking to those type of clients. But, you know, just as far as having a service we can offer throughout the uk, you know, offer services in Scotland, in Wales, where you can go and view a property, get a report of a property before you take that property on the market. For us to manage viewings, manage open houses, to go and have professional photography done, it's a one stop shop where you can literally sit in your office and actually facilitate a sale. Which, you know, at the end of the day just makes sense. If you want to expand in your marketing, grow your area, why not bring VUEBO on board as a partner? We don't charge you a monthly fee. It's a, it's an opt in, opt out service and use it when you want to use it.
[24:05]
A
Well, I think that sums it up really nicely, Chris. I think, you know, the fact from our point of view is. I know whenever, from, from when I first started this, we didn't want to take over, we just wanted to be a, I like that expression, a cushion. And I think that being part of being in partnership with people, particularly on the estate agency side, is worthwhile. Listen, I really appreciate your taking the time. My dogs are going berserk, which seems to imply there's someone at the door. So this would seem to be a good time to break. And thank you very much for your time.
[24:35]
B
Thank you, Ed.