B (5:20)

I love that.

A (5:20)

Keep crying.

B (5:22)

I can remember a handful of mentors in college, some of my most vivid memor stories of their faces now, what they're telling me in college, it was really a great transformative time and it's fun to look back on. I love that story. You've had an impressive journey from student support roles to leading higher ed strategy. What inspired your transition to Vector Solutions?

A (5:43)

Yes. So I think like many administrators and faculty, the pandemic forced a shift, right, for us. Work modality, engagement with cost, colleagues, workforce readiness, expectations of students. And I think, you know, that prompted some critical self reflection, right. Of who am I as a person, as a professional, what do I want to be doing, and I will. I can clearly and confidently say during that period of time, I never wanted to leave higher education. I am passionate about education. I see my role as an educator and always have and always will. I believe in the mission of higher education and its purpose and the role that it serves. And so I didn't want to leave higher ed and there was a great migration out of higher education. But I wanted to continue to work in and on higher education. And I also coupled it with my early experiences in the field. Meeting one on one with students and building out prevention programs and thinking critically about the environment. Right. I thought about those early conversations I had one on one with students, students and how I pivoted that to larger programmatic decisions. And I was passionate about that. I was very proud of the work in my 10, 15 years at my institution where, you know, I started as one single kind of person in a department and grew to multiple departments. It was multiple staff. And so building those programs out, closely aligned. And so I got to a point, I think those two coupled. I wanted to go back to doing prevention work and working towards creating those safer in campus environments, supporting campuses, building out strategy. I'm passionate about that. Vector Solutions was one of those kind of, I'll say a uniform job for me. Right. It merged those. And I was able to marry that passion for higher education, my role as an educator with strategy and building out prevention programs, supporting student success, thinking about institutional transformation in critical ways, and Vector Solutions, you know, that's part of their mission of what they do, of creating those safer communities for all individuals. So it was one of those unicorn kind of closely aligned opportunities. And I took full advantage of it. It was hard. It's a hard transition, of course, directly out of direct practice and higher ed. But it's a joy to meet with campuses now in that capacity.

B (8:09)

Let's talk about this report, the CPN National Insights report that was just released. I thought it was fascinating because it gives such a clear read on how student behavior is shifting nationwide. I think what really surprised me was how strongly it breaks the old stereotype of college drinking culture. And it's not at the fringe. Students are choosing not to drink for reasons tied to mental health, finances, wanting more control over their lives. So it feels like a cultural shift. What stood out to you in the report?

A (8:42)

Many things. You know, I think certainly the trend of increased abstainers we had noticed kind of slowly throughout the years. One of the things that stood out to me was Data collected comparing 20, 23 incoming students to 2025. Right. There was a significant jump in 2023. 55% of students indicated negative health consequences as a determining factor right of not drinking or engaging in high risk drinking behavior, substance use, it jumped in two years to 64%. So that shift from 2023 to 2025 in a matter of three years. Two years, but three cohorts of students. It surprised me and I think validated this need to use data to drive the decisions you're making because things can shift so quickly for students in a matter of that two years. I think another surprise obviously was the younger students driving that this shift. And so I think the stereotypes, like you said, the traditional assumptions of high risk drinking for those younger students, those younger students are making different decisions and weighing their risks as well as identifying potentially those protective factors. So again, not surprised so much by the trend because we saw it year over year and all campuses were curious and kind of skeptic about the data and is this really happening? And so we were pleased to actually dive in and look at the data and bold year over year, but it was the past three years. That immediate shift certainly surprised me at how quickly things can change for your students.

B (10:26)

You know what really struck me is the shift forces us to rethink the whole foundation of traditional prevention work. If students are already moving toward moderation and abstinence on their own. The old fear based or risk focused models don't really match where they are now. So it pushes campuses to focus more on support, belonging, well being then on warning labels. How do you see the shift challenging the classic prevention approach?

A (10:57)

I talk a lot about engaging the healthy majority and those students are still on your campus. And so while there may need to be less of a focus on risk reduction, there needs to be a focus on reinforcing those positive decisions that students are engaging in and maintaining. I think in the prevention space we talk about risk reduction, we talk about primary prevention, but a piece of that is the ongoing efforts that need to take place to maintain those positive decisions, those healthy decisions. And so prevention work, I think in two ways should shift to very skills based on those personal self reflections, reinforcing those positive decisions they're making as well as kind of the long term strategy that an individual needs to engage in. That personal self reflection, understanding kind of their environment, how what's influencing them and reinforcing and affirming those decisions.

B (11:55)

What I'm seeing is that rising cannabis use puts colleges in a kind of a tricky middle space. It's legal in many states, it's normalized socially, but still disruptive when it comes to academics, health and community life. So campuses can't really rely on the old alcohol centric playbook. They have to rethink education. Right. Like policy, clarity, support services in a way that meets students where they are. I guess my question is how are you seeing institutions respond to this trend?

A (12:29)

And it varies, I think, as you've touched on, based on state location, because of legalization, social norms, access, I think so. I see this as both a challenge and opportunity for campuses. It will be unique to their environment, which is standard principle of effective prevention is understanding the environment. But it's an opportunity, I think, for campuses to increase some knowledge and safety and some risk reduction. I think there's interesting data and research being done elsewhere, right. About intersections of mental health and comorbid diagnoses and how the use of cannabis can accelerate some mental health concerns. Increased likelihood of other substance misuses, along with so early use of cannabis, may increase the likelihood of other substance misuse and then safety kind of, and the risks associated with that. And so there's an interesting. I think it's a challenge and opportunity immediately. Jeff, as you can imagine, as we're looking at our data, we have a cannabis. Edu course and Mike Martinowitz, our lead researcher, and I, we immediately opened up our cannabis. Edu survey and said, are we asking the right questions? Right. It's important that institutions see this kind of as a challenge and an opportunity that we continue to understand and use data to drive those efforts on the perceptions and the attitudes and the behaviors around cannabis use and those motivators. Right. What. Why are you choosing to. And not. Or choosing to not use? And those are important kind of factors to zero in on. And that will be unique, I think, to certainly to the campus, into the institution.

B (14:12)

One other thing that stood out to me was how many protective factors, I guess I would say are stacking up in a. In a positive way. You see students prioritizing mental health, tighter friend groups, financial pressure, even a stronger focus on academics. All that makes not drinking a pretty logical choice. But from your perspective, what factors are.

A (14:37)

Are driving that shift the negative health consequences? And so that's. That was an interesting data point there, right. That there is this increased kind of awareness of health and engaging in positive things for physical health, mental health, you know, campuses. For years, I actually was reflecting on. I don't know, Jeff, when you were in college, was your campus recreation a big department where they hosted a lot of programs and outreach, and they were a central hub. I don't know. For me it would not.

B (15:06)

No.

A (15:07)

Right. Yes. And I think more now than ever, it's interesting. Campus recreations are kind of becoming this integral part of an institution. So when we think about protective factors, engaging students in healthy habits and engaging in. With peers in healthy ways, I think some, I know, at least my institution that was the most utilized resource and service on our campus was the campus recreation. And so we, you know, adapted some of our programming and we used the facility and the site for a counseling center and I hosted programs in there. And so it became this hub for us. So I know that's a bit of a shift, but I think certainly engages students and reinforces those positive behaviors and it's more than risk reduction. Right. To your earlier question about how we can shift our prevention programs or the work that we do with students is meeting them where they're at and it's health. They see that as a consequence. Then let's engage them in healthy behaviors. Let's get them physically healthy, get them mentally healthy and reinforce again those positive decisions. Jeff, I don't know if you, you know, the end of our report, we kind of debated and we went back and forth. Towards the end of the report, we listed out three elements. It was the course modality. And so we have breakdown of course modality. So students who participated in the course and completed the surveys, the courses, the modality. So online, solely hybrid in person classes. We looked at living environment and arrangement and then we looked at campus involvement. And so I think that also is a great place for campuses to begin to think through those protective factors. So those three buckets alone, right. Are you creating living environments or providing opportunities for your students to engage in healthy ways in their living environments? And is that a protective, protective factor for them? Will that keep them, you know, safe and healthy and. Well, I think engagement in co curricular activities. Right. Can be both a risk and a protective factor. So thinking about as you work to increase belonging and engagement on campus and the role that student organizations play in supporting those healthy behaviors. And then lastly, that course mortality, right. Like how are students engaging with their peers and with faculty and administrators online, solely virtual offerings for your programs and your services, all of that, I think together is a great place to start.

B (17:37)

When you talk about seeing students as whole individuals, that really resonates, I think in practical terms, I think it means looking beyond isolated behaviors, understanding the mix of stress, identity, finances, mental health, the academic pressure that shapes their choices. I think it pushes the schools to coordinate support instead of working in silos. How do you think campuses can put that into practice?

A (18:07)

Certainly, yeah, I think through maybe that story I told in the beginning of that interaction with that faculty member. I think first and foremost upskilling your faculty and staff to engage with students in those eight dimensions of wellness. Right. That you're asking and inquiring about students overall wellness and upskilling professionals. Faculty may not be comfortable to engage directly with critical situations, but they certainly should be kind of a space where students feel safe to engage. Right. And then you can direct them to those appropriate services. So I see an element of institutions need to upskill and provide some professional development. I've also noticed some positions kind of pop up here and there at institutions and certainly right prior to me leaving my institution of this case management approach, of highlighting kind of this expectation that a student may have to have a very personalized experience where every interaction they have, it feels as if they are being taken care of in a very intimate way. That that person knows me, that they understand who I am and what I'm coming with, what my challenges are. You know, they don't want to go to five different offices and retell their story or retell their, you know, situation. They want that case management approach of I'm meeting with one person. And that may not be a realistic, that's kind of an ideal situation and institutions don't have the resources. But I think certainly when we talk about integrating wellness into every aspect of a student experience experience, there should probably be a shift in that as well. So not only upskilling, but do you take a case management approach from academic advising to the non academic concerns that may arise for a student? Again, building off of that, let's talk.

B (19:56)

About the Vector Solutions tools, the training tools in my research and looking at what you're doing at Vector Solutions. What stands out to me about the tools like Alcohol Edu and Cannabis Edu is how they give campuses real time insight instead of waiting for issues to surface. And they're not just one time training. They help schools spot trends, tailor support, adjust messaging based on what students are actually experiencing. So tell me if I got that right. But from your view, how are these tools helping institutions respond in real time?

A (20:26)

Absolutely. I mean the data is certainly one of our value. Adds right data to drive not only your programs, but your overall strategy for your campus and real time insights. So being able to build out kind of those surveys and those assessments, I think certainly we have within our capabilities is direct benchmarking so campuses can go in and benchmark with other like institutions. And there's some great capabilities we have for institutions to benchmark themselves, which I think certainly both for myself, when I was doing the work and meeting now with our campus partners, there's often I'm seeing this trend, are you seeing this elsewhere? And so to have that capability within our data is great. So campuses can benchmark. I also, you know, I think the content, we often talk about the content and I feel deeply about the content. So we're more than just checking that box, right? It's more than just a compliance. And when we even what we've talked about briefly today, building out skills and reinforcing those positive decisions, those critical skills that students need to be successful, those are embedded into all of our courses that we want to derive the behaviors, those positive behaviors. We want to influence what students know, feel and do on these critical issues. And so we follow that framework. And so we certainly are proud of the content that we produce. But we also know that it drives efficacy of the course. It has impact that students learn and walk away with significant impact knowledge gains. We see increased shifts in perceptions and attitudes, shifts in their assumptions of what their peers are doing. And so we have, you know, the data has real time insights, but then from a national perspective now we can pull these national trends of how students are engaging with their peers and with their campuses.

B (22:22)

So yeah, I imagine the real proof comes from what campuses are experiencing on the ground after using these programs. The combination of education data and earlier insight has to create some meaningful wins. What kinds of success stories have you heard from institutions that have implemented these programs?

A (22:43)

Yes, absolutely. The campus is really thinking about this national insight report as well. We work with a campus who has been tracking their data. Partners with us for over 10 years have been tracking their data year over year, and they identified this increase of alcohol abstainers as well. So they called us and we had great meetings to say, is this what we're seeing? Yes, we are. And so I will say that they have embraced the training as fundamental and kind of foundational to their students experience, that it's been used on their campus to create a common language on these critical issues. They recognize that these trainings are used largely at scale and then using that data to build off in person programs. A lot of campuses struggle right with. They want high impact, high quality programming, but they also want high touch. And so we see ourselves as providing that foundational kind of piece for campuses where you develop that common language, you set those standards for talking about these difficult topics for incoming students and then providing those ongoing Educational opportunities based off of that, that high, that in person event. Right. We also, you know, the courses allow, which is it's hard to do this in person programs. Right. We have unique pathways, Jeff. So we for our sexual assault prevention course, if you are a survivor of sexual or interpersonal violence, you can take a separate path that is trauma informed and caring for your experience in the course. For our alcohol Edu course, if you are abstaining or choosing to not drink, there's a pathway to engage you in those critical messages and education you need as an incoming student while reinforcing those positive decisions that they're making. And so that's also a unique. Interesting campuses use that data, right? To say here are my students, here's what they're experiencing, here's what they're coming in, here's their baseline knowledge and here is a metric now to guide us to where we want to be and where we want to go. So I would say that year over year definitely has been impactful.

B (24:54)

So what I keep noticing is that the biggest challenges aren't just the behaviors themselves, but the pace of change. Universities are trying to adapt policies and prevention models and support systems that were built for a different era. It takes coordination, updated training, a willingness to rethink these long standing assumptions. From your perspective, what obstacles are campuses running into and how can they move past them?

A (25:26)

Jeff, I think you've named them right there. Right. There's the obvious budget constraints and resources and limiting resources and competing demands. And I think institutional leaders are making difficult decisions to make about where time, money and resources go. So there's difficulty in deciding how and when to prioritize prevention and well being programs at the institution. I think as you touched on job, Higher ed moves slowly by nature and we have deeply institutionalized our policies and procedures and those often can act as those barriers to adapting those programs, services and budgets. And so I think having mechanisms in place where you can pivot quickly. I talked about the pandemic earlier, but certainly I think that was a key word pivot. You need to learn to adapt and move quickly and it might feel uncertain. You may not be sure of what that outcome will look like. But we were in a point institutions of higher education where we're being asked to transform. And so part of that is moving quickly and adapting. You have to be okay with that.

B (26:33)

Student affairs teams are often closest to the day to day reality of student life, but they're not always given the authority or resources to drive the change. So how do we empower them with I Don't know clear mandates, Is it better data? Is it at the strategy table? So I'm just wondering, how do you think campuses can strengthen their role in leading these efforts?

A (26:57)

Empowering the student affairs leaders in these efforts, it can be very isolating work, Jeff. I think it can feel as if it's not institutionalized and you don't see your work as a part of the strategic plan that's out on the university website. Right. And so if you are in a position as a university leader where you have staff doing this work day to day, it's critical to empower them, to let them know that there is a bigger picture and that they do play a critical role in the student success. So if your outcomes are retention, then telling your staff you play a role in that, if our outcome is increasing for your graduation rates, then your work plays a role in achieving that outcome. If our outcome is to drive student engagement and belonging, then your work in increasing student membership and organizations, you have a role to play. And so I think reinforcing that staff who are doing this work are central to student success and are needed. So I think the conditions, right, clarity of the role in place within the largest strategy of the institution that the work you do directly ties to student success and prevention and retention of your students. Support resources and tools at scale, right? So often folks on the ground doing this work, Jeff, I did, right? It was. I had to meet one on one with students, serve as an advocate, triage mental health crisis and build programs. You know, those are two very different jobs. And so there's burnout, there's lack of recognition and so finding resources and tools to engage to support their work, to complement the work that they're doing. You know, we used these modules for my students, right. We used these educational trainings for my students which helped alleviate that burden of reaching all of our students at orientation programs in one big talk, right. But it's important to empower.

B (28:58)

Well, to wrap it up, is there any final insight you want higher ed leaders to hear? Or if you have to narrow it down to one piece of advice for future proofing student support systems, what would it be?

A (29:10)

Future proofing student support resources and services. I'm going to level that up. I think higher ed in general is having to future proof their role and who they are. And so there is, I think, increased transparency, increased accountability for what institutions of higher education are doing. And so I think trickle that down to the work that student affairs professionals are doing and prevention space, well being space that it does directly tie to Retention, it directly ties to the success of students. But if you're not doing this work and addressing the needs of students. So when I talked about future proofing higher education, there need to be direct outcomes. Students go to college to get a job, to have opportunity for a better way of life. Right? That's why students are seeking out higher education. And so if you, if your programs and your services and your educational opportunities are not closely linked to those skills that students need to earn a job to get a living or a better quality of life, then I think you're missing the mark. And so all of the programs, my advice is look at all of your programs that you are delivering. If you don't see the skills and the outcomes directly tied to the career readiness that students will need, then you're missing the mark. And so embedding kind of student success prevention, well being and safety deeply into your program services and student support structures and tying that to career readiness, I think that you're missing the mark. So that would be, you know, my advice. Institutions at a highest level, right. Have accountability now, the roi. And I think if you're in a position where you're leading prevention and well being work, tie that work to career readiness.

B (31:01)

Great advice. Thank you for being on charity. This is really a powerful topic and I'm excited to share that research too. Where can someone get the research if they want to look at this recently researched report?

A (31:12)

We have a right front center on our Vector Solutions webpage and drill down about the higher education team, but it should be front and center right there.

B (31:21)

All right, we'll put a link in the show notes to Vector Solutions as well as your LinkedIn bio charity. So thanks again.

A (31:27)

Thank you, Jeff. Bye Bye. Bye.

B (31:31)

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