A (3:19)

It took us a while to get away from that model, too, because people loved it so, so much, and they were so, like, personally attached to it. But it, you know, it wasn't, like, function, you know, it didn't meet today's audience.

B (3:33)

Right, right. No other school can get away with that. And now, obviously, no one's doing that.

A (3:37)

Right.

B (3:37)

But you've grown MIT's social platforms to over 6 million followers. What's the secret sauce behind that kind of growth?

A (3:48)

Yeah, I think the secret sauce is. I realized early on that there is no secret sauce sauce. I mean, there. I mean, there really is no secret. I think that we are very intentional with every thing that goes into our posts. You know, we're very intentional with the captions. We're very intentional with the images and how it looks and which platforms we're on. And I like to think that it's just, you know, that attention to detail and being meticulous and caring immensely about the product and making sure everything ties back to, you know, the goals and what we're trying to do.

B (4:28)

Yeah, I love that. I can. On a smaller level. This podcast is a year old now.

A (4:33)

Oh, congratulations.

B (4:34)

Over. Yeah. Yeah. So been going a year weekly. I don't do Christmas week, but I haven't missed a week. And to say, like, it's a lot of hard work. I feel like when I started, I'm like, I'm okay at this, but I don't know, I'm not that great. But if you just keep at it, you know, all of a sudden, some episodes hit, and then two Saturdays ago, we had more downloads than the entire month of October last year. So it was like, wow. Like, it just is a lot of things that add up. So there's no secret sauce. That might be our sound bite. I like that.

A (5:01)

Yeah, you just have to keep at it, you know?

B (5:03)

Yeah. And so tell me, how does storytelling evolve in the world of higher ed social media, especially at a place like mit?

A (5:12)

Yeah, very slowly. Institutions of higher ed. It's funny because I say that they're really big ships and they take time to turn, but from the social perspective, I think we're driven by how our audience likes to Consume content. So I think a lot of times the content is the same, but again, like what the focus on our captioning or the text in the posts or the types of images and how we resize the images. I know these are like really minute details, but like it's. We always try to optimize for how the audience likes to consume the content. And so that's how we sort of evolve how we tell the story. The story in the tactics, I think, yes.

B (6:01)

Are there different types of content students expect and want from certain platforms where maybe they don't. Certain types they don't want?

A (6:10)

Yeah, it just definitely feels that way. You know, not all vertical video platforms are the same. You know, like TikTok is very, very different. And the type of content that our audience expects from us on TikTok is different. It's more aligned with what the TikTok audience likes to consume on that channel. Right. Reels feels more aligned with what our audience is used to seeing from us. But yeah, they are not all alike.

B (6:39)

You recently won the AVA Digital Award for your podcast. I did Confessions of a Higher Ed Social Media Manager. What inspired the show?

A (6:48)

Well, I think it's just that there was a need. You know, a lot of times higher ed social media managers, we're like one man bands and people always are surprised when they say this, but that includes me. Like, I. I literally am doing it myself right now. And I think that there's a lot for us to learn from each other and a lot of commiserating to do and I think that we're teammates for each other. So I just thought that there was like a need for. From it. And, you know, I've been doing it enough that I've made a lot of mistakes and I've learned a lot of things and I want people to get where I am faster in their journey within this career. So I'd like to share what I've learned.

B (7:31)

Yeah. And Jenny goes to a lot of conferences that I go to and her sessions that she presents at Fill up and they're popular.

A (7:37)

Oh, thank you.

B (7:38)

Tell us, what are some of the misconceptions people have about managing social media in academia?

A (7:45)

Yeah, I think there is a little bit of a generational gap and I hate to say that because, like, it doesn't mean that you can't do social because of your certain age. You know what I mean? I'm in the middle of my years. I'm in the middle years now, so I. And I'm still doing it. So it's Just like, I think you have to have an affinity for it. But it's just funny because, like, if you have never done it, you don't actually know what goes into it. And I think a lot of people think it's like simple and easy. And that's a huge misunderstanding because it is not simple. There's so much planning. There's like these spreadsheets and calendars and timetables and. And honestly, like, posting a post sometimes takes me, you know, there's no just posting it up there. It's not. You're not just posting. Sometimes it takes me a half an hour to post a single post on a single platform because I'm like, again, we're very intentional about it and thoughtful about it. And sometimes you just. I have fat fingers sometimes. And you have to do it within platform and it makes it difficult. So it's not easy, it's not fast, it's not smart. As simple as people think. I think that's the biggest one.

B (8:52)

Are there any tools you use? I know there. I used to be more aware of these like hootsuite or anything that help you push a different platform. Any tips you can give on some of the tools that help you with that process?

A (9:03)

Yeah, I don't love the automation, but I do love like efficiency. And the content management systems out there right now are very good. And I feel like it's just what your preference is like. Hootsuite has a layout and user experience that some might prefer. Sprout Social has one that some might prefer. There's so many right now. Like there are dozens, but I think they're all fine. I just think you have to find one that works for you. Yeah, exactly. So that's really helpful. And there are a lot of editing platforms that are great. Like, I happen to really like Cap Cut right now, especially in the vertical is first and mobile is first era that we're in. I feel like there's a lot of really great captioning options out there now that are in platform. So the platforms themselves have gotten very sophisticated in that way. So, yeah, definitely use what you can. And there's a lot of free ones out there that are really helpful.

B (10:05)

So I'm curious, I want to kind of draw a parallel from what I really spent some time over the last 15 years working on in social. And that's the mobile revolution. Right. In 2008, we didn't even have the App Store and that's when the iPhone came out. And so I really, I was in a web director job. And that kept me going for almost another decade because we had this mobile app and we didn't have much governance around it. And in higher ed, if you don't have much governance around something, you can either go for it and get your hand slapped along the way and get a lot done or, or you can just kind of wait and be shy and be like, oh, I need governance place before I can do this. And I was more of the former. I'm like, oh, great, let's go develop this mobile app. You know, I'll check with the right people, you know, to get things done. But I could go move a lot quicker.

A (10:49)

Totally.

B (10:50)

But fast forward a decade and it just, everything slows down once everyone realizes, oh, we need to control that space. Maybe your team's grown, you're more aware of say, social media. How did it evolve over, you know, you're kind of, you might be one of the OGs of being a social media manager. How long have you been doing this?

A (11:08)

Yeah.

B (11:09)

What was it like as far as, you know, the attitude and governance around it to how it is now?

A (11:14)

Yeah, it's, it's really funny, Jeff, because it's weird being recognized as like one of the long standing ones because like I've been called og, I've been called old hand, I've been called pioneer. But yeah, no, I love it. It's lovely to be recognized as like, I guess someone who has a lot of experience. And it's true, there was a time where really we could kind of do what we want and we didn't have to ask anyone.

B (11:41)

No one was looking.

A (11:42)

Yeah, no, no one was looking. And it's true, like people are watching. And not only that, like leadership is watching. And so I think for me the cool thing is I sort of developed and matured in the role that I am in. As the role was developing and mature, like the role kind of developed and matured along with me, me. And then there's a lot of trust that I've built since I've been at MIT, since like for 10, I'm going on 10 years. And so my approval process is still very nimble and there's a lot of trust there. But I imagine if I were to take on another role in a different organization, I'm not sure people would be like, oh, it's okay, just, you know, use your best judgment, Jenny. And do. I mean, maybe, I don't know, I guess, you know, but starting out as like a specialist, I don't think that exists anymore.

B (12:32)

You know, is your team Changed as far as the number of people or what they're doing or is it just you or what does that look like?

A (12:40)

Jeff? I've shrunk. My team has shrunk. Okay. So to be honest, I've never had any direct reports, but I am a part of the Institute Office of Communication. So within the institute we have like video producers, graphic designers, writers, and they all do the thing and they all make sure I get what I need for our, you know, that we get to put on our social media channels. Channels. But I don't have any direct reports. And it's tough. It's really tough.

B (13:06)

Yeah, well, I think that's common. That even gives you more kudos to what you get done. If you're doing this all along, you're kind of a victim of your own success. Like you're doing great.

A (13:16)

So I did have one woman that didn't report to me, but a portion of her time was dedicated to helping to manage some of our channels. And she actually recently left mit. Not because of anything bad. She had a positive thing, you know, to pursue, so she left. I miss her very much. But now it literally is just me. It literally is just me. So I think part of it is like I really have to prioritize. Yeah, prioritization is like so key now.

B (13:47)

And now a word from our sponsor. Where can you find a consultant who knows your challenges, really? With decades of campus executive experience, the Mackie Strategies senior team provides interim leadership, presidential and vice presidential council, crisis communications and technology guidance built on real world success, Mackie Strategies expertise when it matters most. So with this fast paced environment, because within kind of the, the ship of higher ed that does move kind of slow, social media is kind of the fast paced and reactive part of that often. How do you build a sustainable long term strategy within that environment?

A (14:32)

So thank you for that question because like the. Actually the honest answer is I wrote a whole book on this. It's like organic social media, how to build flourishing communities online. And honestly, I think the backbone or the foundation of your strategy should be. Be the same. It shouldn't be reactive. Right. Like there might be tactics that are a little bit reactive, but our foundation, it's rock solid, it's aligned with our goals and that really hasn't changed. Yeah. Since I walked in the door.

B (15:03)

Well, sometimes things are reactive. Right, Things like there's crisis communication.

A (15:09)

Oh gosh.

B (15:09)

How do you handle crisis communication on platforms that move faster than traditional VR channel?

A (15:15)

Totally. So I think the most important thing during a crisis is for social and the social media team to listen and monitor. That's like our crucial thing. We're not saying anything. We're not getting a back and forth with people. But for us, I have a very quick line of communication to leadership to share what I'm seeing online. So it has a little bit of like, trust because I literally can just email the chief of staff. My supervisor is okay with me just directly going to them with things that I think they need to see. But there's also like editorial judgment because it's not everything. Right. You have to sort of know what is important and what's key, what they need to see to help them make any critical decisions. Because I'm in that aspect. I'm not the decision maker. I'm not. But I'm a cog in the whole machine that helps them give, that gives them information that decision makers need to have a full picture.

B (16:14)

Right, right, right. What metrics do you consider most important? When you're looking at all your different channels and maybe trying to decide which ones are, you need to put the most effort in?

A (16:26)

Jeff, I've built a career on looking at engagements. Yeah. Like, so the public interactions. Because I never want to rely on metrics that, that I might lose. Like, say you're using a fancy platform and then your budget gets cut from it and then I no longer have access to that. I never want to feel that way. I always want to feel consistent. Right. So I rely heavily on the metrics that are actually available publicly on the platforms. But the engagements, when you're building community, the engagements are like, you know, an instant feedback loop. Because when you get a, like your community is saying, I like, I like this. Show me more of this content. And that's what I try to do, you know?

B (17:08)

Yeah, that makes sense.

A (17:10)

Yeah.

B (17:10)

Do you have any, how do I say, horror stories about comments, comment threads that have gone awry or anything?

A (17:19)

So we are very conservative in the interactions. And again, it's just me because of resources, we're not going back and forth. But I will tell you that does happen. I'll share a horror story with you. So one evening I posted scheduled. So that's automated. Like I scheduled a post for when the sun sets here in Cambridge. And it's just a benign post that was a nice picture of like dusk of campus and it said, have a great weekend, everyone. And it posted. But I mean, this is what happened. That's why I don't like automation a lot. So it just so happened that Ruth Bader Ginsburg had passed away and the announcement of her death was like one minute before my post was scheduled to go out. So it's like the announcement was made, the post went out. Of course I'm seeing the whole Ruth Bader. I'm like, oh my God. And I'm personally bummed that, you know, she had passed away. And I'm like, ugh. And then I'm like, my post. And so I like went back and looked at it and sure enough, it was like in the four minutes, it was long enough for it to say, bad timing. No, not good. You know, and so, yeah, so I deleted it. I mean, it's. There's no reason for you to keep it up.

B (18:38)

Like.

A (18:38)

Yes, I know, that's what I'm saying. Like it was such a regular post in. Any other day would have been fine. It's just the timing. And so, yeah, it's like, that's what makes social really challenging.

B (18:51)

I can see that that's like, that's a hard one. Like I'll write like a story, a news related post and I want it to go on LinkedIn. I'm on a Friday, but I'm like, I want this to go Monday. But something happens over the weekend where it's like, it moves so fast. It's like that's not even news anymore. So I've had that happen bad. But it's like, gosh, you gotta keep up.

A (19:09)

Yeah. Oh, I know, but I was criticized. I mean, well, you know. Yeah, but it's okay. I deleted it and it's fine.

B (19:15)

You know, when should schools consider paid media versus organic? Are there certain tips you've learned or are you full organic or how does.

A (19:25)

Yeah, that's tough. For the most part we are full organic, but we have pockets that do paid. Like our Department of Open Learning where they have this plethora of like free online resources. Of course, our school of management, Sloan, does a lot of advertising as well, you know, digital advertising. But it makes sense because business schools are highly, highly competitive. And that's a totally different audience for, for say like the mit, like the undergraduate population that never has a lack of applicants year after year. So I think you just have to know how. Who's your audience? What are you after? Is it a competitive field? Is there an advantage to paid? And yes, I will say there are situations where it is. And then it's helpful, it's helpful to have a professional that knows paid well because that's a very distinct. Yeah, that's a niche itself. So in that case, you want to maybe go with an agency or. Or bring on someone that specializes in that. Yeah.

B (20:28)

So maybe have a real purpose and target and like really test.

A (20:32)

Yeah.

B (20:33)

Before you would go, I mean, I would take that.

A (20:35)

Yeah. That's where I think organic and paid should partner. Because what does well in organic is only already proven. Right. So it will do well as a paid, you know, as a paid campaign as well. So.

B (20:48)

So what lessons from your time in journalism still shape how you approach content today?

A (20:54)

Yeah, so I was in broadcast journalism and we had to write very briefly. So writing briefly has been an asset. And just the storytelling, it's all stories. Like I tell people, I'm still a storyteller. It's just a different medium, you know, so. Yeah, for sure. The writing.

B (21:11)

We've spoken at many industry events. What's a recurring theme or concern you hear from other higher ed social pros out there?

A (21:21)

I mean the strategy aspect is always when people want to hear, you know, talk to me about or hear from another one is gaining leadership buy in. That is huge still. And I just feel like, man, like it's 2025. Do we still need to convince leadership that social media is like important? But I'm amazed that's. I'm like, wow, there's still a lot of work to be done. So yeah, that's a big one. And just convincing people of the need to have. If you're gonna actually make social media priority, the importance of having like a social media manager, like you should have a social media professional, you know.

B (22:02)

Yeah. At this point it can't be a side job. It really is at least a.

A (22:08)

Exactly. But it is still for a lot of like departments, labs, centers. Yeah.

B (22:13)

So they're not quite there yet. So here's a question, the million dollar question everybody's waiting for. They're always asking, there's so many platforms out there. How do you decide where to focus your energy? If you have to just pick one or two or. What are the big ones? Jenny?

A (22:28)

Okay, so you're thinking at this point what I would think are the two big ones. Is that what you're sort of. Yeah, I actually would say the second is a little bit depending on the audience. But the first one, I really would say it's LinkedIn. LinkedIn has really sort of bubbled up as a primary social media platform. The second I would say either Instagram or TikTok, but it really depends on if you're going for that like younger gen Z and younger gen Alpha audience or if you're going for more like professional, maybe alum not like, you know, graduated from like, is the Instagram crowd. So that, that's what I would say.

B (23:10)

Yeah, yeah. No, no real surprises for me there. I mean, LinkedIn is a little bit of surprise for me.

A (23:14)

I know.

B (23:15)

But yeah, that's my go to platform. That's where I put everything. I'm wondering, like, I heard this at that conference I recently saw you at in July at Maine at Edu Webb, there was a presentation, I don't know if you saw it, about trying to think who, who put it out there, but basically Reddit was tagged as the. One of the top channels. I don't call them a social media channel. It's a platform out there. And I've kind of known it's been growing, but really everyone's talking now about Reddit being like the place where students are kind of gossiping about schools and saying like, you know, that's kind of their. One of their channels. So have you heard much of that's.

A (23:48)

Interesting that you don't see that as a social media platform? Because I would say that it is social, but I would say Reddit has been the place for a while and I think that now, like, we're all catching onto it. And the thing with Reddit is like, and I think this is why students like it is like you have to be sort of a savvy Redditor to understand and get the platform, you know, and Reddit, just as the, like, they don't like brands, they don't want you to push your own message. Everything has to be.

B (24:20)

Yeah, it has to feel organic.

A (24:22)

Exactly. And so that's why the students like it so much and that it's a great, like, I've been saying this for years, it's a great platform for listening and monitoring because you can really get a sense of what people are saying about your brand or students are saying about your school. Yep.

B (24:38)

Yeah. I need to get more familiar with it here.

A (24:42)

It's hard. I will be the first to admit I'm not a Redditor. It's not naturally my thing.

B (24:48)

Yeah. It's like you have to go through some steps to figure out where to go. It doesn't automatically come up in a, in a basic search.

A (24:54)

The interface is not like it doesn't appeal to me. But I also know that it is a great platform. And luckily we do have some very avid Redditors that are my colleagues and they do let me know if there's a conversation that I need to be like, privy of. Yeah.

B (25:12)

How do you view AI being A part of a social media strategy. Are you using AI? Is that, Is that something you're looking at for the future?

A (25:19)

And I don't know why you wouldn't. I mean, okay, so first of all, I am not, like, cutting and pasting anything directly from AI onto any platform at all. That's not happening. But it has helped us, like, sort of adapt our tone to be a little bit more simpler because it's been very academic the way that we've talked. So it's helped us do that. I. This past, my past intern, I like, there are content management systems where you can download posts and look at the. So I tagged all of her content, like, downloaded that she created and posted, Downloaded it and uploaded it to ChatGPT and said, can you give me a summary of this content? And it was amazing. It was like, here are the strengths, here are the, you know, the successes, here's the room for growth, here are the opportunities. And yeah, I think, like, especially for analyzing data, I think it's super, super helpful.

B (26:18)

Yeah. There's so many, so many ways. I love your examples. A lot of schools are really leveraging these Personas, you know, synthetic clones of a student and running messages by them. Like almost having your own little, you know, test environment, which is.

A (26:33)

There's so many ways. I know we've just scratched the surface, but, yes, it's an asset.

B (26:38)

Yeah, so many ways.

A (26:40)

I just wanted to add, there's something that someone. It was a presentation that we saw when it was at Edu Web and the person was like, electricity is not going to take your job. Like, if you're a barber, electricity is not going to take your job. But if you're a barber with scissors, the barber with electric razor might take your job.

B (26:59)

Yeah, right, right. It's a great analogy.

A (27:01)

Yeah, I know. I thought that was a great analogy. Like, AI is not going to take your job. But if there's someone that is, like, really sophisticated in their use with AI that can help them, something to think about. I was like, whoa. Yeah, I thought that was really smart.

B (27:14)

Yeah, I like that one. Well, if you could give one piece of advice to someone starting a career in social media strategy today, what would that be?

A (27:23)

You know, I would say, listen to your gut. My gut has served me well in a lot of different situations. And really, like, don't be reactive. I think part of my superpower in being in a medium that works so fast and can be so toxic and volatile is that I'm not reactive to any. I am just not reactive. Give yourself like several beats to look at something and bring people in when you need. So I think that's important.

B (27:53)

That's a superpower that is great to have in your role. Jenny, I love it. Thank you for being here. I'm going to put links to your site so people can get like right.

A (28:03)

Love it.

B (28:04)

Get your book. Check out your blog that in the show notes.

A (28:07)

It was a pleasure. Thank you.

B (28:08)

So thanks again. It's a great time. We wrap up this episode. Remember, EdTech Connect is your trusted companion on your journey to enhance education through technology. Whether you're looking to spark student engagement, refine edtech implementation strategies, or stay ahead of the curve, in the end, emerging technologies EdTech Connect brings you the insights you need. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an inspiring and informative episode. And while you're there, please leave us a review. Your feedback fuels us to keep bringing you valuable content. For even more resources and connections, head over to edtechconnect.com your hub for edtech reviews, trends and solutions. Until next time, thanks for tuning in.