EdTech Connect Podcast
Episode: The Creative Mind Behind Higher Ed’s Mobile Future
Host: Jeff Dillon
Guest: Eric Kim, Cofounder & Chief Creative Officer, Modo Labs
Release Date: August 8, 2025
Episode Overview
In this engaging episode, Jeff Dillon interviews Eric Kim, the co-founder and Chief Creative Officer of Modo Labs and a Harvard-trained designer renowned for shaping mobile digital experiences in higher education. Drawing on over 15 years of experience, Kim shares the story behind Modo's founding, his design philosophy, real-world innovations in campus apps, and how the rapid evolution of technology—including AI and social media trends—is redefining student engagement.
Listeners gain insight into not only the technical and creative side of campus app design, but also the cultural and community-oriented ethos that has made Modo Labs a leader in the higher ed tech space.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Origin & Ethos of Modo Labs
- Evolution of Naming (02:00):
- "M.O." = Mobile; "do" = East Asian root meaning "the way of."
- Modo means “the way of mobile.”
- Kurogo Conference Legacy (02:26):
- ‘Korogo’ (from Japanese theater)—stagehands in black, invisible but essential, enabling the magic for others.
- Eric Kim: “They make the impossible possible on stage and they make the actors into stars. That was kind of like the ethos for the technology... and the culture we wanted to build as a startup.” (02:50)
- Founders' Journey (03:37):
- Kim and his co-founder, Andrew Yu, first met at Harvard and later reconnected at MIT.
- Launched Modo Labs in 2010, originally serving MIT's mobile needs during the multi-device era (Blackberry, Palm, first iPhone).
2. The Shift in Mobile & Digital Campus Experiences
- Initial Challenges (04:09):
- Early digital campus resources were highly fragmented; students juggled multiple siloed applications just to accomplish simple tasks.
- Eric Kim: “It was like, you know, two great tastes that you can't... taste together.” (04:23)
- Design Vision (06:00):
- Aim: Unify mission-critical resources, making them “glanceable, actionable, and personal” in one experience.
- Move away from “window with many little panes of glass” toward truly integrated, one-stop solutions.
3. Lessons from Other Industries
- Learning from Cross-Industry Experience (07:51):
- Financial services firms sought to emulate best practices from higher ed campus apps for their own digital campus experiences.
- “They said, ‘Let's go get best of breed from that world and bring it into our world.’” (08:20)
4. Common Pitfalls in Higher Ed UX
- On Digital Siloes (09:07):
- Mistake: Duct-taping together separate siloes rather than truly integrating.
- Eric Kim: “What the user really wants is I just want the information and services I need at the moment I need them. I don't want to think about bouncing around between these different systems.” (09:33)
5. Innovative Real-World Applications
- Pioneering Campus Apps (10:08—13:17):
- Student mobile registration—Sacramento State among first to enable this.
- Creative modules like free food notifications for food-insecure students and campus parking heatmaps.
- University of Houston: Food truck tracking in real-time via low-code tools.
- Eric Kim: “We're just trying to help people do life better, remove roadblocks that get in the way of student success.” (12:16)
6. Influence of Social Media Trends
- TikTok & Instagram’s Impact (14:01):
- Social and mobile have merged, driving shorter, more passive consumption habits.
- Proactive personalization—surfacing relevant info instead of waiting for users to seek it.
- Eric Kim: “It’s not just a toolbox… but what can you do to proactively surface this stuff based on what it knows about you, who you are, where you are, and give you what you need in the moment, proactively.” (15:06)
7. Personalization: From Dream to Reality
- Overcoming Past Hurdles (15:27—17:51):
- Earlier personalization efforts often failed due to lack of content management (biology major CMS anecdote).
- Today, user expectations and enabling technologies make true personalization more practical.
- Generational shift: Younger users assume systems are already collecting data and expect reciprocal value.
- Eric Kim: “There’s an assumption that the systems know everything about me, so I might as well get some advantage, some benefit from it.” (17:12)
8. Driving App Adoption & Campus Digital Transformation
- Keys to Indispensability (18:03):
- Real value: Offer features users actually need (e.g., successful AI chatbot pilot drove 235% app usage increase).
- Marketing: Promote use at point of need—shuttle stops, dining halls, etc.
- Eric Kim: “People fall prey to the, if you build it, they'll come fallacy… in situ, at the point of need, advertise the app's utility.” (18:35)
- Project Governance (19:04):
- Buy-in from high-level leadership essential for long-term success and coordination.
9. AI, Voice, and the Next Tech Wave
- AI’s Role & Emerging User Interactions (20:03):
- Natural language interfaces are redefining how people expect to interact with digital services.
- The norm is shifting from “toolbox” to “feed” to “conversation.”
- Eric Kim: “We've gone from like the toolbox to the feed and now I think it's the conversation.” (20:32)
10. Staying Grounded in Higher Ed
- Community and Collaboration (21:43):
- Higher ed’s culture of sharing and open exchange is unparalleled compared to other sectors.
- Eric Kim: “Other industries, there's a lot of kind of secrecy… but higher ed… really lived that [collaborative] out.” (22:01)
- Personal Anecdotes from Jeff Dillon (23:02):
- Transition from private web business to campus webmaster
- Early quest for website personalization and marketing focus
11. Designing for Diverse Audiences: The Moto Approach
- Dual User Personas (25:17):
- Modo designs for both:
a) Campus administrators/creators
b) End-users (students, faculty, staff) - User research through ideathons, student hackathons, and internships with customer students.
- Eric Kim: “We learn more from [student interns] than I think they learn from us.” (26:38)
- Modo designs for both:
12. Omnichannel & ‘COPE’ Models in Higher Ed
- Technology Philosophy (27:41):
- Support for multiple platforms—mobile, desktop, kiosks, and digital signage.
- Some institutions use Modo for digital signage, though desktop and mobile remain the primary channels.
13. Advice for Higher Ed Leaders
- Keep User Needs & Change in Focus (28:40):
- Stay close to evolving user expectations; cohort-by-cohort differences can be dramatic.
- Measure success by facilitation of student life—not just clicks and time-in-app.
- Eric Kim Closing Quote:
“Is engagement with the life of the organization and your life within the organization facilitated by the app? That's what's important to me. If we focus on the user and their life in your school and how you're going to make that life a little bit better moment to moment throughout the day… I think you're going to do something good.” (28:57)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“What you measure in that world is really engagement with the app. ... For me, is engagement with the life of the organization and your life within the organization facilitated by the app—that’s what's important to me.”
— Eric Kim (00:00, closing again at 28:57) -
“I didn't plan to go into higher ed. ... then very quickly I found that I kind of fell in love with the higher ed community.”
— Eric Kim (21:43) -
“Other industries, there's a lot of kind of secrecy and it's competitive advantage for me... higher ed… really lived that [collaborative] out.”
— Eric Kim (22:01) -
“There's people fall prey to the, if you build it, they'll come fallacy.”
— Eric Kim (18:24) -
“We've gone from like the toolbox to the feed and now I think it's the conversation.”
— Eric Kim (20:32)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 02:00: Meaning behind Modo Labs’ name & founding story
- 04:09: The fragmented state of early campus digital experiences
- 07:51: Lessons higher ed can draw from other industries
- 09:07: Common UX mistakes and breaking down digital siloes
- 10:08—13:17: Sacramento State’s student app innovations & other creative uses
- 14:01: The influence of TikTok & Instagram on mobile app design
- 17:12: Generational attitudes about privacy and personalization
- 18:03: Driving adoption—lessons from AI chatbot pilot
- 20:03: AI, voice, and the "conversation" interface paradigm
- 21:43: Why Eric Kim stayed in higher ed
- 25:17: Modo's process for user research and balancing audience needs
- 27:41: The ‘COPE’ (Create Once, Publish Everywhere) vision and Modo’s omnichannel support
- 28:40: Last words of advice for higher ed digital leaders
Episode Takeaways
- True campus engagement is measured by the app's impact on real student life, not merely user metrics.
- Holistic, integrated digital experiences—not duct-taped solutions—are the new baseline.
- Personalization and proactivity are now norm, not novelty, with younger generations assuming data will be used to improve their experience.
- User research and collaboration are crucial: Listen to your students and blend cross-industry insights to stay ahead.
- AI and conversation-based interfaces are reshaping how students will access services in the very near future.
For more resources, visit edtechconnect.com.
Guest info: Modo Labs | Eric Kim on LinkedIn
Host: Jeff Dillon