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Educational Alpha
S2: Conversation with Aishah Ahmad, former Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria
00:37:26
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Welcome to Educational Alpha. I'm Bill Kelly, CEO of CHI association and your host. Bringing you on the ground conversations with business leaders, educators and industry colleagues from around the globe. Educational Alpha is sponsored by iCapital, the financial technology company with a mission to power the world's alternative investment marketplace. Part innovator, part educator, and part navigator of the alternatives industry, iCapital offers intuitive, scalable digital solutions that have transformed how private market and hedge fund investments are bought and sold. With iCapital, financial advisors, wealth managers and asset managers around the world now have access to everything they need to deliver the return and diversification potential of alternatives to high net worth investors. To learn more, visit icapital.com in this.
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Episode, host Bill Kelly welcomes Ayesha Ahmad.
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Board member at the Financial alliance for Women and former Deputy Governor of the Central bank of Nigeria, to discuss diverse topics including innovation, regulation, climate action and female leadership. Shedding light on the financial landscape in Africa. Aisha shares her fascinating career in finance.
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And transition into regulatory roles in a conversation rich with lessons on perseverance, leadership.
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And the future of finance in emerging markets.
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Listen in.
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Aisha Ahmad, welcome to Educational Alpha.
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Thank you very much, Bill. I'm happy to be here.
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Pleasure's all mine. So for the audience, you're a KAYA member, a CFA charter holder as well, but I think we met for the first time just a handful of weeks ago in New York and perhaps in our travels we bumped into one another, but I think it's the first time we spent a substantive conversation with each other. And I said, hey, maybe we should try to get together on this podcast. And we agreed it was a good idea. A week and a half later I'm in London and boom, there you are again. So you're living rent free in my life in a very good way. And it's solidified our resolve to get this going. So welcome to the platform. And we were talking a little bit about what your day job is and I think maybe soon to be me as well. I think you've got a lot of diverse interests across a lot of different platforms and maybe a bit managing a portfolio of very interesting things. But before we get into that, you've had a very interesting career and background as well. So maybe a little bit about your pathway that got you to where you are today.
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Thank you very much, Bill. And I must say that it was very exciting to meet you at that Kaya event in New York. I think attending that event took me back to the days of trying to get certification and the exciting world of Alternative investments. And so it's a real privilege to speak to you today. I've been so lucky and privileged to have worked in finance all of my career. And I think why I'm lucky is that I've worked on both sides of finance. So I've been on the private side, what you'd call financial services, and leading private wealth management. I was a private wealth manager myself, and then I grew to lead the businesses. And seeing and doing that in Africa, where a lot of exciting things happen, a lot of growth happens, and I was also lucky to transit and evolve into a more regulatory and policy role and so to speak, see both sides of finance. I think underlying the whole of my experience is how we can use finance to address inequality, how we can use finance to drive growth on the continent, how we can use finance to create more opportunity. And I think recently there's been a lot of exciting things happening around digital technology that can help us do that. It's transforming the industry itself, alternative investments, but it's also transforming development opportunities. So these are exciting times and happy to be here at this time.
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Quite a few themes you've laid out there, and we may have to have you back to cover them all. But one thing I wanted maybe just specifically mention is that you served as a deputy governor in the Central bank of Nigeria, a very populous country, a role that I think is very difficult for one to achieve and especially for a woman to get to that spot, more difficult as well. And we're going to talk about female leadership as well, which I know is a passion of yours, and I absolutely support that as well. But what was your pathway to get to the Central Bank?
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B
I have to be honest that I didn't focus. I never knew I'd be in policy. First of all, I was very passionate about my clients. When I was doing private wealth management, that's where I got to know about the cfa and that's where I got to know about the CIA. Because I wanted to do better for clients, make better decisions, investment decisions, and support them through that. Always been very passionate, always been a leader, always been the one to try to push the envelope, to drive innovation, to do new things. And I think one thing that got me noticed was the work I was doing, not my finance work, actually, it was the work I was doing to drive female representation in leadership. So I was the chair of an NGO called Women in Management, Business and Public Service. I was very visible promoting advocacy for female leadership in the private sector and the public sector. And I think that was part of it throughout my career I never saw myself as a woman or saw any barriers to my advancement. And I think being the first female deputy governor in charge of financial stability, I wouldn't say that there was a deliberate attempt to make it a woman. I just happened to be the one that fit at the time. I think my background in finance, I have an MSc in Finance, I have MBA with a Finance specialization. I have the care designation since 2008 and the CFA since 2013. It gives me that broad view of the entire space at the central bank. I think one of the things I'm most proudest of is driving one given an environment where the regulation can support innovation in fintech and coupled with COVID we saw how that really, really transformed payments in Nigeria. It transformed electronic transactions. So we saw huge growth in that area. I'm also especially proud of of course the reforms in the regulatory framework. We updated the law, the enabling law that supports our regulation of financial institutions. It's called the Banks and Other Financial Institutions act, which hadn't been updated in over 20 years. I think it was first launched in 1991. And then the advancements that we made in female leadership in the banking sector for me were truly inspiring. I think Nigeria has one of the largest representations of female leadership in banks. I think 25% of Nigerian banks are led by women and these are large and mid sized banks. The journey has been very exciting and I think when you are at the policy table and you have private experience, where you've worked in the private sector, it gives you a unique perspective that for me can only be an advantage. You're able to conceptualize policy changes, you are able to lead engagements. You know, policymakers don't always engage as much as they should with the operators but you know, you're very comfortable with that and you're able to also impact those in the private sector to see risks. So to see the regulatory view and to understand where the risks are coming from and in fact you're able to generate better solutions to those risks so that you're using your non traditional policy, you're creating co creating policy tools that can help. So it's very exciting time and I'm really, really privileged to have had that opportunity. Nigeria used to be the largest economy in Africa from a US dollar perspective, but it still remains the most vibrant, of course the most populous. But the structure of the economy and the sheer number and opportunity that is there makes it a really, really significant market.
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A
I feel badly with all the traveling countries I've been during my 11 years of Kaia. My tenure is coming to an end at the end of this year. Nigeria was never a country I got to visit, and maybe I will as Citizen Bill Kelly as opposed to CEO Bill Kelly, but you give compelling reasons why. So I want to come back to Defi and Payments in a moment because that's a very interesting part of this discussion and part of the future of the global economy. But before I do that, I don't have to spend much time with you, and I think the listeners will already understand your level of passion, enthusiasm, determination. And right before we came on, I went and looked at your LinkedIn profile and there was a great story on there and it had to do with John Maxwell, who I know a little bit. But I went to Maxwell's website and there's a very interesting quote there. It says, there is no success without perseverance. And you live this dream because it's somebody you knew in a conference you wanted to get to. And maybe I'll let you take it from there because I think it's a very good lesson, certainly for younger professionals coming in, where sometimes the answer's no or the door gets shut on you and don't allow that to define who you are, especially as young women coming up in this industry. But it's a great story and maybe you could just take a couple minutes to retell that.
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Thank you for asking that. Because sometimes as we advance in our careers, we forget who we were when we first started out. And you miss some of that hunger, the hunger to succeed. And for me, when I first started, it was just hunger to be given work to do. When I first started my work, it's like, okay, you're a greenhorn. You don't know much, so we're not going to give you much to do. I used to go and knock from door to door to say, I'm done with my work. And I have more. So with John Maxwell, I think I was 16 and I was going on this road trip and then we used to have this, because we don't have them anymore. We used to have all these. They're like truck stops where you can refer your car. And they used to have these mini supermarkets and you'd have this book stand that people rarely bought the books, so the books were usually dusty and no one touched it anyway. So they're filling up the car. And then I just went and I saw this book and the journey was an hour. I finished that book, the Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz. And that opened up this World of what people call self help today. And then I read everything John Maxwell had. So I sort of felt like I had a personal connection. And then I heard that this guy is coming to Nigeria and I'm like, to see him in the flesh, I must go for this thing. When I asked for permission to go, it's not something that junior bankers do. I was barely an associate. I went to hr. Please, can I. She's looking at me, she's like, hundred people want to attend this. And you little thing, you want to go. You know, she's like, it can't work. It's not for your level. And honestly, I don't know what made me. I was just focused on the goal. The goal was get to that conference. I took three days casual leave, paid for it. It's not something I could have afforded. I had savings. It wiped out my savings at the time because I just started work and I didn't have a lot of money. Anyway, I then get to this conference and something tells me, aisha, you can't be silent here. You have to speak up. I'm talking a room full of executives from all over banking and other places in Nigeria sponsored there. And then you have this structure where you have the microphone right at the center and you have to walk to the microphone to ask the question. John Maxwell is on the stage. And I just said to myself, aisha, this is a defining moment in your life. You must get up and ask this question. Now, one thing I didn't say in that LinkedIn post, something happened after that. So I go on to this, to the thing. I asked him a question. I can't remember what it was, of course, my voice was shaking and everyone turned to like, who is this person? Then he answers my question and would you believe I got invited? So there was a private lunch for John when he came. And I got invited to that lunch. And I found myself sitting between John Maxwell and one of the key industry leaders at the time. He was, I think, the MD of one of the largest multinational companies producing consumer goods in Nigeria. I couldn't believe it. To wrap it up, it's about, so your objective must not be that you're seeking attention or you're seeking glory. You should have a bigger objective for yourself, which is you want to improve, you want to grow, you want to have opportunity and then just go for it. And the worst that can happen is they say no. And the best that can happen is that you get to meet John Maxwell and have lunch with him in Nigeria.
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It's A great story. And I had the opportunity to talk to students around the world. And what I tell them is they're coming into their career, and whether they realize it or not, they are their own CMO chief marketing officer. And if they want to fire themselves and sit on the couch, they can do that. But they've got to put themselves out there and take some risk. And it's interesting. And sometimes you hesitate calling people out. But one of These classes had 80 students there, and there was one young student who happened to be a woman who reached out to me in advance of the class lecture and welcomed me for coming into the class. The only one that did it. When I went in there, I said, where's Kim? And she raised her hand. I said, you've got to be like Kim. Be your own cmo. Be like Asha. Just put your hand up. And if somebody says, no, no, no, this is not for you. Don't take no for an answer. And maybe the story wouldn't have worked out the way it did that time. But you don't have to bat a thousand to put it in baseball parlance. You just have to be at bat on a regular basis and take those risks. And it's all around investing, too. Investing is managing risk, career is managing risk, and you want to have a fair return on that investment. But if you put all your career aspirations under a mattress and cower in the dark, you're not going to get what you want. I think it's a great story.
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You said this when we had that event where you talked about the CMO of your career. I think with what technology has done and this whole global village we are in now more than ever, young people have to take charge. We know that you're not going to be in one company for 30 years and it's not going to be the company designing your personal development plan. We know that there are so many opportunities and so many things you could do with your time. So being in charge, I think just fits the age we are in. And I couldn't agree more.
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I agree. So, as I promised, back to payments. So interested to hear your views on what's going on, specifically in Nigeria and what you see around the world. And I look at it again through a US lens as an example. And while we have a very developed capital markets, we also have a very developed ecosystem and regulatory environment. So change is sometimes hard because it's got to get through these machinations of an existing infrastructure, existing system. And if I think about emerging economies where there is no legacy Technology regulation is nascent and while that can present some risks, it also presents some very good opportunities because you can leapfrog over things that might be hurdles in a G20 country as an example. So I think from that standpoint, and this is why I think we've seen great advancements around defi coming out of parts of Asia and maybe in this case Nigeria and sub Saharan Africa versus parts of the us so maybe some of your views on the DEFI landscape and maybe the importance of regulation, but having it as a partner as opposed.
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To a blocker in countries like Nigeria. The biggest example of what I call regulatory innovation, where regulators are innovating, where policymakers are doing the innovating, and where policymakers are bringing together the collaborative platforms to co create solutions. I think one of the things that drives development is an innovation is actually trying to solve a real problem. Financial inclusion is a real problem for many African economies, Nigeria included in the past. Because financial inclusion is really critical if you want your monetary policies to be effective, if you want to change interest rates and you want that interest rate to have an effect, that you want it down the line, that you need most of the population included. Of course, if you want to also solve the issues of poverty, issues of lack of finance to grow businesses, financial inclusion is also important. It is not a mistake that I think there are, depending on who you ask, five or six fintech unicorns. So these are companies that are valued at in excess of a billion dollars. Out of those six, I think four originate from Nigeria. Because there's a lot of innovation happening in payment, particularly around facilitating payments between merchants, small businesses. Nigeria has had faster payments for over a decade. Using your mobile phone, you can make a transfer to the next person. And that has totally changed the landscape of small business. And that was required. And I think the role of the regulator there was using its convening power. So the central bank, in collaboration with the banking sector came together to create organizations and platforms that helped to create those rails. So what you call those payment rails that you can then use to innovate around other things. The central switch, for instance, is a collaboration. It's called the Nigerian Interbank Settlement System. It's a collaboration between the central bank and the bankers committee. And what it does is really to facilitate the ecosystem of payments. And off of that we've seen fintechs leverage the same platform. We created a biometric platform off of that as well. Because one of the biggest barriers to financial inclusion is identity, financial identity. So the bank vacation number helped in that Respect. In this respect, regulation was not just nascent, it was actually proactive. And that is the advantage. So not having those legacy systems, that advanced economies is an advantage for you because then you can then really, really solve your problems. I find that we still have that, what I'll call the missing 20% or 30%. You know, financial inclusion is around 70% today. You are using all this fancy technology, you're using bots, you are using AI to make certain decisions, you're using machine learning, for example. But you still have certain stakeholders, ecosystems that are excluded and it's about getting those over the line. But the story of financial inclusion in Africa, particularly Nigeria, is one that a lot of advanced economies can learn from to solve other ecosystem related challenges. They may not be financial inclusion, they may be other things, but you do need to collaborate. The regulators, policymakers need to collaborate with.
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The operators, no doubt. And unfortunately here in the States, you know, the SEC was formed in 1933, so it's almost a century old. And when it comes to regulation, I think we're at a point in time where if the industry doesn't like it, they literally turn around and sue the sec. I just don't know how that's productive. Now I'm not saying regulation's perfect and I'm not saying the regulator is perfect either, but we've got to find ways of collaborating. And when I see democratization and greater access to products, particularly in the alternative investment space, and we're going to talk about the challenges of solving for climate in a moment and defi disruption, we're going to need more as opposed to less regulation. But it's got to be sensible and it's going to require collaboration. And maybe we can send an envoy over to Nigeria and figure out why it works so well.
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I think on the conversation about DeFi, it's a trend that was something that shouldn't be surprising. This whole disintermediation of traditional financial systems, it has its advantages. You can create liquidity in otherwise illiquid asset classes, real estate, private equity, you can democratize access because investment is a route to wealth. But I totally agree with you on the regulation that we need. Regulation. What form it should take is something else that remains to be seen. Definitely the solution has to be a collaborative one in arriving at it.
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Absolutely. Turning to climate. And you can help me here too, Aisha, because I had a prep call for an ESG panel I'm doing in a couple of weeks time just this morning and I think ESG has become an acronym with a lot of problems attached to it. We treat it as a single risk factor. There's so much tucked inside. And if we could do nothing but then think about the G better governance, because if you don't have that, you have nothing. But then maybe think about how do we solve a climate and maybe start there. But if we're going to be trying to solve for and measure so many risks at once, we're trying to solve and measure everything and doing nothing at the same time. Well, maybe an interesting data point, and I'll let you run with this, is that the Paris agreement was struck in 2015 almost 10 years ago. And I went back and looked at that in regard to this prep call I had this morning. And I was reminded that that was a legally binding international treaty that 190 some odd countries signed off on. So 10 years later I can see 2030 on the horizon. And I think commitments and promises and aspirations that were put down and codified in 2015 have no chance of making it to 2030. So I said you could take this in whatever direction you want, but maybe if I put a question around it, maybe you could start with the current state of the Union of Climate specifically and we could take it from there.
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B
I think it's a topic that I've increasingly been interested in. So in my policy years I was more interested in climate related financial risk and sort of how that affects financial stability for financial institutions. And for me, the biggest red herring there was around what I would call a disorganized transition, the risks of a disorganized climate transition and what that means for the assets sitting on bank books. But taking a more global view, there's always this thing about there's a global commitment, there is a perspective of emerging markets and developing economies and there's a perspective of advanced economies. And when you hear the conversations at the global meetings, they all seem to sound like we are all moving the same direction in terms of what we are trying to do. People throw around words like just transition, the funding that will be required for Africa and emerging markets to come to the table to meet the global commitments. But when you look on ground, it's a little bit different. There's a disjointed view, so to speak, in terms of how we're going about this. There's one narrative that says that there are more immediate problems in developing economies than climate. We have poverty, we have lack of infrastructure, we have income inequality. And we need to focus on that because those are more urgent. My view is that climate is linked to those problems. And I tend to look at climate action in emerging markets as an opportunity to solve those age long development challenges, not a distraction from those challenges. There's a lot of talk about the money, how do we get money, how do we get the funding? I think Africa needs about $100 billion for adaptation or mitigation. Don't quote me on either one, But I know $100 billion is a number that has been coming up. We're not meeting those requirements. I don't want to see it as the advanced economies. We are not meeting the funding requirement, let's put it that way. But for several reasons. For me it is about being a lot more locally focused on how to implement climate related initiatives in such a way that you actually really achieve the objective. Last time I was talking to a group at one of the large schools in the UK and we're talking about climate health action and how we can use things like renewable energy to solve more than one issue. So you solve the problem. Renewable energy of course is cleaner energy, so you reduce emissions. That's one goal. Secondly, over time it gets cheaper as an economic benefit. And thirdly, it helps you be more resilient in case there's a disaster. So you have the third benefit. So we just have to start thinking differently about climate financing, start looking at things like the bonds. So we have health bonds. Can we make them a little more attractive? And that's where I feel private equity can also come in. Can we have private equity invest, first of all create pools of capital and then can we use DEFI to then make those pools a little bit more democratized to find out more people? Because I also feel that across the world people are investing more in what they believe in. We've seen a growth in impact investing. So people don't just want to make financial returns, they want social impact as well. There's a lot of opportunities in that space that we need to unpack. But we need more concerted leadership, we need the political will and we really, really need collaborative platforms to get ahead.
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A
And I think of everything you said collaboration. I'll just focus on that word for a moment. If you could geotag every greenhouse gas in the ozone layer, I would suspect many more of them come from the G20 countries in Nigeria. So there is going to have to be some cooperation, collaboration about how do we fix this financially, because it's going to require a fair amount of dollars when most of these sovereigns have stretched their balance sheet to the limits. Although they're going to have to figure out how they're going to solve for that. But also you mentioned locally focused as well, which I absolutely agree. Agree with, but it's got to be locally focused, but then collectively recognized as our responsibility. And what's interesting with scope 3 emissions, they're coming out of the supply chain and nobody wants to own them. And the reality is who owns them? You, myself, our producer, Paulina. What are we doing today to inconvenience ourselves to make life better tomorrow for our children? And I think most of us would say, well, probably not a lot. So unless we solve for the scope 3 emissions, I don't think we're going to get there. And I think we're moving toward nationalism as opposed to global cooperation. And I don't want to seem like a doomsday scenarioist here, but we need to move more toward cooperation. And I'm just seeing maybe, at least for the time being, what's flashing on the screen is less.
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I couldn't agree more. And what you said about our children is so instructive. I saw a report, this is the World Happiness Report, that said that young people today are unhappier than they were and a big issue for them is their climate future. So this is a future that they've inherited, they really didn't have a part of. But where we, even we, the adults, seem to not have a clear plan to get there. Couldn't agree more. And what you said about the emissions, yes, Africa is providing very minimal amount of emissions, but the truth is that the impact, they're more vulnerable, Africa, emerging markets, more vulnerable to the impact. So on both sides, definitely there is a lot of accountability that needs to come in there. But I want us in emerging markets to be a bit more proactive about this conversation and to see it as an opportunity that we can use to achieve several competing priorities and can make the continent better for it.
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A
I agree. And I know, Asha, that you have two children. I think they're currently in school here in the US but what are their career choices and have they been directly or indirectly influenced by what you've established and accomplished in your career?
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B
They went to school in the US but they actually started work. Now, incidentally, Both work for FinTechs, but one is an engineer, computer engineer. And then the other, he did economics. Children, sometimes, either they want to do what you're doing or they want to do exactly opposite of what you're doing. My second son that studied economics, I think he's more leaning towards things like global international relations, social economy stuff like that, the whole liberal arts parts of things. My son doing computer engineering is. He's also about innovation. But in tech, I think young people today, they seem to have it all figured out. I feel like they feel like they have it all figured out and they have a clearer sense of where they want to go and they have a keen sense of justice and fairness and they want the world to be better that way. So we encourage that whilst guiding them towards how to get it done. Because it's very easy to be idealistic in your 20s. It is expected, really. That's when you have the energy and the passion. So we should encourage that passion and then guide them with the leadership and personal leadership and responsibility they need to achieve their goals. I'm very proud of my sons.
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A
As you should be. And I know firsthand as well that parenting is not an easy business. There's no manual for it. You kind of figure it out as you go and then you and I both hope we get it right and time will tell. But it sounds like you've raised two very responsible contributing adults, so thanks for that. In the remaining minutes, it's interesting again, if I look back at your LinkedIn profile or read a bio of yours, you are involved in several different verticals and there's a couple of things around non for profits that I did see there. And you mentioned female leadership. I thought there was something. Children's villages, that seems to be an emphasis on this next gen as well. And maybe because you've successfully raised your kids, you're now focused on the next generation. But maybe talk about some of your interests which seem to be varied and deep, which I think is a very, very good thing.
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B
Thank you so much, Bill. Varied interest, but align into one thing. Whatever I'm doing on women, on youth, on driving, on reducing income equality in Africa, it's all about giving people opportunity. I think that's what I thrive on, on giving everybody an opportunity to be self determining. My first foray into, say, what I'd call volunteer work was with women in management, business and public service. WIMBIZ, it's an organization that's about 25 years old and the whole idea was create a platform that can advocate for female leadership in nation building. So not just private sector, public sector. Create an environment where women can be inspired to live their best life and empowered to deliver on their own objectives. Because the thinking was that women are more than just homemakers. They have their own dreams and they can contribute to advancing the economy. I was a volunteer there. I was an associate I became chairperson of the executive council. I'm now a trustee. And I did a lot of work and I enjoyed that work, just advocating for women and all that. Like I told you my career, I didn't really feel different. I didn't know to feel different. I think if I ever felt any different it was that I'm from the north and my mom is from the south and not a lot of people were from the north in financial service, if there was any difference, I think that was the only one. But not as a woman. Today I'm a member of the board of the Financial alliance for Women. What it aims to do is to drive financial inclusion for women, to help financial services provide better quality service for women. I'm sure you appreciate the lost opportunity in female led businesses that are not being funded. The lost revenue, the lost GDP that can come out of that, you know. And I really enjoy having those conversations. For SOS children's villages. I was a member of the board. I'm still a member of the board in Nigeria, but I was chair in Nigeria. And it's a very old organization, an international organization, 75 years old. And the whole idea is to give children that are at risk of losing parental care so they could be orphans, they could have dysfunctional homes just to give them the kind of love that they need. You create an alternative home life for them or you improve their current home life. And I'm very passionate right now I'm on the International Senate, so which is the International Board. We're undergoing a lot of reform at the moment to sort of improve on our work. So these are causes that for me integrate into who I am as a person. I want to see people succeed and I want to see Africa achieve its potential. I'm actually tired of us talking about potential where Africa and emerging markets talking about is concerned. With all the conversation about ESG today, with the fact that global markets are more integrated, with the fact that global investors are looking to diversify portfolios. I see that as a win win for us to achieve those broader social impact goals. And I feel that there's nothing you can do without finance. Bill, I'm sure you agree with me. Finance is at the heart of all of this. But finance alone is not enough. That's where all of these conversations coming. So I'm very proud of those activities. I'm doing a lot of looking at female led businesses and how we can find private capital to support them also not just the capital because increasingly we see a lot of focus on gender lens investing by the DFIs. I think we also need to do work with enabling those businesses to be well positioned to attract that capital so they can deliver on the value that we see. So there's a lot of exciting things happening and opportunities that we can leverage off of.
- [34:11]
A
Absolutely. And thanks for all that you do. And you can see it in your face and how you carry yourself and your smile. The level of enthusiasm and drive is off the charts and I think people can absolutely hear it in your voice as well. Before I let you go, Aisha, you are a global citizen. If somebody said to you, and I don't even know the answer myself, where do you currently live? Is it everywhere or is there a specific spot you call home today?
- [34:37]
B
That's a question that can't be answered. And I think Covid taught us that we could be anywhere, we could do our magic anywhere. And you started to see all this Covid related tourism of people moving. They work somewhere else. So today I go where the opportunity lies. One day I could be in San Francisco looking at a biotech firm or health nutrition firm that could significantly change what I call nutrition in Africa. Tomorrow I could be in London with you at a K event looking at how alternative investments grow and what the opportunities are. So I'm sort of everywhere and anywhere, but in my heart I'm African, I'm Nigerian and I always see those opportunities that I see globally. I'd always see them from the lens of how we can improve home, improve Nigeria, Africa and make it what it is meant to be. I just wanted to say something, Bill. I wanted to just commend you on how the KAYA curriculum has developed to include these emerging topics. So ESG, AI DeFi, all of these things. Having qualified in 2008, I can only imagine what the questions are like for those areas, macros and regulatory frameworks. So just want to commend you for that. Thank you for everything you do.
- [35:54]
A
Thanks, Yash. And I'll tell you that I finished my kayak curriculum in 2023 and I joke with my former colleague Keith Black, who's going to be on this platform. And he was in that very first class. And I say to Keith, they were giving it away back then. It was so much more difficult. But we're not trying to manage to a pass rate. The industry has gotten much more complex and as a candidate and maybe I have my biases, but when I went through that program to have a User's Guide to Artificial Intelligence, an Executive Guide to Artificial Intelligence, talking about permissioned blockchains impact investing in private equity. I said wow this is all pretty current things and knowledge I can use. I don't have a lot of influence and say over that and I give great credit to that side of the house and I appreciate you mentioning it so I think a very good place to leave it. Aisha, my world is better with you as a member and having met you and I know I can guarantee you I'm going to bump into you somewhere because you refuse to disclose where it is you are which is everywhere and I know I'll see you somewhere so I feel very fortunate for that. So thanks again for all that you do and I appreciate you joining me on the platform today.
- [37:03]
B
Thank you very much Bill.
- [37:06]
A
Thank you for listening to Educational Alpha. I'm your host Bill Kelly. Learn more about the Chi association and subscribe to the show at kaya.org that's C-A I a.org See you next time.