A (4:04)

I appreciate all that and maybe a little bit of graduous pat on your back or one that's well deserved, mentioned the fact that you immediately got back to me and it indicates that you're somebody that's very approachable and cares and doesn't stand on platforms of errors or accomplishments. And I would encourage the listeners to at least look at your LinkedIn page as one example and follow you because I just realized this myself more recently and the amount of usable and actionable intel there is excellent. And there's one short video that I saw and it really speaks to something I try to accomplish here and in my day to day life. He talked about always learning, always being curious and always asking questions. And we talked about this a little bit right before the cameras came on or I guess I should say we're not on camera, the mics came on that. It's very hard and maybe impossible to be the smartest person in the room, but most of us should strive to be the most prepared person in the room. And I don't know if it was that same video or was it another one I saw. You talked about trying to advise the younger generation to think about not the next job, but the next room they want to be in. And I think it's excellent advice from many different perspectives. But I don't know if that same advice would have held true 15 or 20 years ago because you went from job to job, but now that job is in a very different room. Or maybe that job's not going to exist when you get there. So we can talk a little bit about maybe your thoughts about the responsibility, especially as we get more accomplished, to give back. And then I want to talk about some of these bigger themes that you're focused on.

C (5:40)

Well, you mentioned it, right? What does that room mean? That room means a lot differently than it did before. So when you started in my career, you think about the boardroom. And yes, it may still per se, makes sense today, but that room of influence and impact doesn't necessarily mean just the boardroom anymore. Stakeholders are all over the place and how you influence that. It could be not just from groups that you're around, people the size of capital that you have or you can bring to the table. There's so many things, now that I think about it, and it's not a title. Right. I think that was kind of what I was thinking of. A lot of this stuff, before you even think about where you're going, is being prepared. And I think that's one of the things that I could only control myself. Like, I fortunately didn't get any handouts. It'd be nice if somebody did. Or I always joke around with. With my wife, like, I wish I had the silver spoon. And she looks at me and goes, well, you wouldn't even take it because that's not how you were built or that's where you got to where you are. And I think that's part of my journey of learning. Like you said, approachable. Like, all that content you see is content I'm doing. It's things that I'm thinking about while on the road. It's not because I want to share. It's also I've learned that there's a lot of people around me that are watching it. That keeps me going. Just your one comment, Bill. Just what your one comment will keep me going. Like, I know people who are watching this will hopefully drop me a DM and say, I saw this. That makes me think that I'm making the impact. And I wish for me, if I had that coming through my journey, it would have made a huge difference. Huge difference in the way I look at things. It's okay to be different to that aspect, I think we all do have to be challenged outside of our expertise in one sector. We. I know the idea of being great at one thing is great, but I think we gotta be great at many things. I think we gotta be knowledgeable in many things. And preparation is more of that. While you walk into that room, at least you have some knowledge about operations or finance or whatever sector that you're thinking about.

A (7:31)

Yeah. And I think it's such an important role. And I think oftentimes as we work our way up to the C suite or the boardroom, I think we forget that. And I've always tried to fashion myself as a person of the people, but then I'm often reminded that I can relate to somebody who is 20 years old, because I was once 20 years old, kids that were once 20 years old. But the person you're talking to has never been 65 years old. They'd never been in that C suite. So you've got to approach this with an open mind and understand what the bid ask spread is before you get into this conversation. And disarming yourself by making yourself as a person very approachable is a critical thing. So thank you for all of that. I think it's excellent.

C (8:16)

You want to be treated the way you wanted to be treated. And you say, you know, I mean, for you, it's 21 wasn't that long ago. But for me, you remember the things that you were growing up, going through it, like things that you don't like. Still follows me. It still follows me to this day.

A (8:30)

Well, keep on keeping on there. So, Ryan, as I said, it's hard for me to drill down on any one thing that you do because you do so many things. And I'm assuming that at some level, and maybe it's very obvious, too, they're all kind of woven together and they make sense, as opposed to a very vast portfolio of stuff that just keeps you busy. But I've read a couple of your bios, and a word that keeps popping up is futurist. So I don't know if you embrace that word or not. And if you do, maybe you can help define it. Or if you don't, why the bio writers have gotten you completely wrong.

C (9:05)

Well, it's funny because obviously I don't call myself that. Obviously others do. It was interesting even at south by Southwest last year, that was kind of something that came up. And the year before, a lot of that is when I've gone on air, talked about things that occurred. Like, good example was Covid before It came out, I was on air talking about what that would look like on the GDP aspect and what would you businesses wide and at that time, right, people were like, oh, whoa, you called that? I'm like, no necessarily, I called it. I saw it. Like I saw what would have done if it out broke further and here's what sectors that would have gotten there. And so when I think of that word now and why I think it's still there, it's really the adaption of how are you adapting to innovation. Like there's great that you can throw ideas out there, what may may happen. But like, let me tell you one thing right now that I know the word AIPC is going to be this time in two years or next year, everyone's going to have access to it. And Bill, you're going to be like, what the hell, you know, are you calling that? Are you not saying. For me, I've already seen it. Like I've seen it in companies of the technology where we are going to use AI on our computers and doesn't go to the cloud, that's safe on the edge on our computer. So don't tell me we're not going to use it if it's going to read your emails, wake up in the morning, here's the top five emails in your voice. Don't tell me you're not going to look at it, right? It's the same thing that we're using with paying with our phone and fintech. To me, we're paying with our phone. Even if you wanted to do it or not, majority of everyone's doing it. And so I see these things because maybe I have the inside, not maybe, but the inside knowledge of it as well, meaning a lot of these leaders and being around there. So I kind of just put a couple things together and go, oh, this is going to be convenient, easy and it can be packaged across different places. And so I talk about these things and people then go, oh, you're a futurist.

A (10:51)

Or you do.

C (10:51)

I'm like, well, I'm not trying to be one. I'm just telling you, Bill, this time next year you're going to use this laptop because it's going to be on your thing and you're going to be like, wow, that was easy, that's safe. I know technology is going to get better. I'm still saying it's still beta, but like this is going to change the way we look at things and do things and then in doing so the future of work has changed the way we look at what productivity really means. And so I'm diving into these conversations and people are like, oh, wow, you're really going at it. I'm like, to me, it's not going at it. We're just trying to figure out and define what those rules and regulations are.

A (11:24)

So I want to spend a few minutes in AI because it does open up a couple of interesting doors. And maybe now I'm starting to see the method to your madness of the many things that you do. And if I think about AI and no reason to take the other side of anything that you said, I think it's sort of the invasion of it is unequal today, but eventually it's going to level out. It's going to impact everything that we do. And it is moving very, very quickly. But then I wonder and maybe worry a little bit about the governance of AI and is that moving as quickly? Because capitalism is going to move at an unrestrained pace unless regulation or legislation slows them down. And we're in a laissez faire approach in the US to both regulation and legislation. And when it comes to AI, are we sacrificing individual rights to privacy and data? That I did not acquiesce that it's going to be out there. We've got to have some kind of a governance structure in place. And maybe we have more than I'm aware of, but I don't know if we have a national definition. I don't know if we have an international definition. So what are your thoughts about governance on AI?

C (12:37)

I consider AI ethics. I've been talking about this for last couple years. It's me pushing businesses less about governments because businesses need to have that transparency in how they do things. Right. We can hold them accountable or businesses can do that. I did something at Adobe Summit a couple years ago. I think they sent, you know, early dissent pillars. Now, does that match with what governments will eventually do or not? I don't know because there isn't the framework just yet. Right. And so, you know, are you going to sit back and do nothing or are you going to do something about it? That's the first step. If I'm talking to businesses and leaders, like, don't look to wait for somebody to tell you this is what you should be doing, this is what you should be doing and try to create your own. What does that mean? To your point? This is an important conversation to have. Second, you're right. I think the frameworks here in the US is not there yet compared to Europe or Compared to other places. And this is where I truly believe that the government can't do this by themselves. It's going to take three groups and are we there yet? No, but it's businesses like you mentioned. Right. Because they're in it, governments and the consumers. You cannot not have the people involved in the way of how this has. So does that mean full regulation, less regulation? Is there somewhere in between? Obviously, on the, on both sides, there's pluses and minuses to it. And I think there's a mesh in the middle because you don't want to stifle innovation, but you also don't want to go full on the other side of without. There's no checks and balances behind it. And so I don't think we're there yet, I think to your point. Or is it lagging a little bit based on where innovation is today? Absolutely. Maybe a year ago we would say maybe it's still even because of the way. But you think about the semiconductor race, the AI race, whatever race you want to talk about in supply chain. Like it's there. People are trying and striving. Like you said, we live in a capitalized economy. People are trying to solve for these things. And it's a conversation that needs to be happening and it needs to happen really more in depth. It can't be a buzzword. So to me, I am tired of it being a buzzword versus to actually really talking more in depth about it in the boardrooms and people understanding it.

A (14:45)

Yeah, no, I agree with that. And you mentioned the EU as an example. And I think GDPR came on as a regulation before ChatGPT, before the movement toward AI. So I'm not sure how much of that has been reset to bring AI in. But in listening to you, Ryan, it almost occurs to me that we would need not so much a national definition of AI ethics, an international definition, because as consumers, I can go anywhere and anybody of the product can come to me. And A, do you agree with that? And B, as we have a world that's moving more and more toward nationalism, how do we ever get global cooperation to do anything?

C (15:26)

I can't get people to tell people that. When you download an app, do you understand what you're giving up in information? Right. We know there's been hacks, we've been all these different case examples over the last couple years, yet people still, I mean, I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just we're so used to now, right. Be able to give up our information so something drastically has to change meaning the incentivize them in a way. Maybe in the future we'll see people willing to sell their data and get paid for it. Then they're okay with it. That could be a norm or that changes the way that we have. But to your point it's always going to be within country. There's going to be a standard and they were matches internationally and the only way all countries come together is if it's helps everybody. It's a win win that just the geopolitical 101 I guess for me at least that I viewpoint like there isn't any country that's going to hurt their citizens and not do it right. There's got to be a win win for all. And I think that's where we get to the global level international aspect. If there's a standard that makes sense but if there's no infrastructure there Bill, how is it really hard to get everyone to be doing the same thing? There could be a minimum standard but again that's why I think the global consumer is the one that has the most power should they choose to leverage it.

A (16:38)

Yeah. And I 100% agree with that. And when it comes to issues around AI and AI, privacy and protection, climate regulation globally the last mile is the end consumer and that's a fact. How do we unionize them and get them collectively to say I have had enough and we're going to make a change. That is the hard part to do. And I think this is true in so many ways. But your thoughts there?

C (17:06)

I actually think we're. I mean I know we're still far but we're much closer than we were 10 years ago. Just because the way we are interconnected now, not just in trade, not just the way we do business, but just social media. The way that you can use LinkedIn and drop a DM to a real human that is human and you can talk to somebody. I think there is a inner working of that like say we just chose to be like we want to drop an app and we all dropped it. We could do that, we could do that if we all came to that aspect. But you got to do it in a way that makes sense to for change. We just haven't been able to mobilize that just yet in those aspects in a way that we're all on the same page. Or again back to the point, why do I care? Right. That's the question. Like why do I want to me giving up my data? Not everyone knows that I Also think as we talk about literacy, of financial literacy eventually, but AI literacy is there too. People sometimes think that AI is ChatGPT. And no offense, I mean, yes, that's AI behind it, but AI does a lot more than just generative AI. And again, we're so the education around how to do that, how to even the words I just mentioned, as I was telling you, I said on the edge versus the cloud. For those listening, the edge means it's on your laptop. You can do stuff that's proprietary to you and it doesn't go to the cloud. So you're secured on your laptop versus giving information in the cloud, even those kind of terms. We're going to hear more, Bill, and I think more people need to understand what that means when they're actually doing things within the use of AI before we leave technology.

A (18:41)

And this is maybe the future end of futurists quantum computing. And it's funny that I know enough to be dangerous. I was asked, and maybe not as in the same realm as you, Truffle Ryan, but because of my independence, my work at Kaya, and because I'm curious and I like to ask questions, I get asked to moderate a lot of discussions. And the smarty pants at MIT in Southern California had an alumni association and they had a panel on quantum computing. They asked me to moderate and I said, well, I think you've dialed the wrong person. But then I think the role of the moderator is not to be a subject matter expert, but to know enough to be a check and balance on people sitting to your left or right. And I found the topic so very interesting because as the story goes, everything we rely on as consumers, and most notably, if I look up my 401k statement or my brokerage statement or my bank statement, it's not even financial services. It's done on classical computing. And the protection is cryptography. But when quantum computing gets us act together, it's going to slice through cryptography like a hot knife through butter. And they're going to have what is known as Q Day, where everything is up for grabs. And I don't know how quickly the bad actors are working on this, but oftentimes I hear, well, you don't have to worry about this because it's not happening for 20 or 30 years. It could take 20 to 30 years to prepare for it. But I don't know if quantum is in your calculus or not. And even if it's not, are people talking about it and should they be talking about it? Because when I hear even the possibility of Q day, unlike Y2K, I know exactly the data was going to happen. I could prepare for a Q day. Well, it's like waiting for Godot. He may or may not show up.

C (20:28)

It's one of those things where you mentioned it, right? Is it ready to do it yet? Can people do it now? And the answer is that no, when it gets there, it will change. Is it 10 years, is it 20 years? I don't know. But the key thing that you mentioned, right to me is the bad actors like cybersecurity in general, right. It owned the spend for each company publicly traded for CFO. They're just sign off every year. It's just 10% increase or 15% increase in budget. I see these conversations, I've been a part of them. Obviously not in the near term. That doesn't mean it's. You shouldn't be talking about it. But it's not applicable to implement just yet. But it will change the way we do things, like you just mentioned, which is for the average person, kind of like, well, okay, great, call me when we're there. And we're saying, well, you are so fascinated about it now, it's going to be different when we get there. So it's really hard to comprehend because for companies and do you invest in it now? Do you see an ROI now to it? And the answer is you won't until it occurs. And when it occurs, what happens? So it will change the way we do things, that's for sure. Like, I know there's companies in different industries that you like, why are you investing in these things? And they're like, oh, we know that all our systems are going to go this way, so we might as well get ahead of it. And these are companies, I can say in healthcare, maybe a little bit slower, but they're talking about quantum computing, Bill. And you fall off your chair just because they see the speed and the security behind it.

A (21:52)

I think about AI as an example, and I don't know when ChatGPT entered the popular vernacular, but less than five years ago, maybe two or three years ago. And then look where we are now, look how quickly that advanced. And I think AI is something that's going to change how we do things going forward and maybe gradually dismiss how we did things in the past. I think the problem when it comes, and maybe it ever comes, when we have the advent of quantum computing, everything we relied upon is going to be subject to invasion, theft and everything else. So the risks are very, very high. But I agree with you how and when you invest in it. I don't know. You got to keep an eye on the horizon. But as a CEO of a company you've got to be thinking about an ROI to the end investor and you can't be so far out. And I think therein lies the challenge.

C (22:42)

Yeah. And that's the point. Right. And then those who are investing has some verticals tied to that. Right. It's not just a random company that just looking out investing just because.

A (22:52)

So I want to talk about a couple of the themes that I want to be cognizant. I'm not at all trying to put you on the spot because we're sitting here in August 15th and this is going to probably air when we come back after the summer break in September. So if I asked you a specific question by the time it airs they're going to say what kind of futurist is this guy?

C (23:11)

Yeah.

A (23:13)

That is maybe the surgeon general's warning. Not so much predictions. But I want to talk about collect together tariffs, inflation and maybe rates policy is tucked in there and I'm not going to ask you rates up or down tariffs or what direction inflation. But you know I think we are doing an experiment on an economy in real time without maybe completely understanding the implication and you look at maybe some of the monetary flow based on beating up some sovereigns on tariffs and you could say well that's good. But I don't know if we have a playbook for how this works long term. And I've seen some observations where from the consumer standpoint and ultimately we talked about consumer before they are the last mile it's you and me, it's everybody sitting on the ground and if it's less innovation, less choice and higher price, that's not a good thing. So we've had a lot of starts and stops with tariffs. The market doesn't seem to care anymore. It doesn't get as upset as it did back in April. So maybe your general outlook and if you want to make a specific prediction, we'll see how you did with this errors but be curious to see how we should be thinking about that.

C (24:21)

Yeah, I mean I think this is not going anywhere this ability to I don't want to say the uncertainty what a certain price costs from a certain country. Right. We've seen this before. So if you're a businesses like if you're reacting to this news. Sorry Bill, you're we're in the wrong spot. I think what we will see if we see months coming together with More stability. You'll see more investments from many of these companies because there is a lot of cash on the sideline but can't be deployed until investments are really clear. And that part I can say that will occur. The timing of that I'm not sure. Because until interest rates drop, until people feel like they can start hiring again, meaning hiring in masses. I think we've seen this over the last year. Very conservative models and consumers too, right. We have a high debt of. In credit card debt. Right. The purchasing power of high items have dropped, of high value items have dropped. We're also needing to see what the car market's going to look like. You know, even from month to month that's changed. We've never seen that before in the last couple years, Bill, where you're like, well, the prices on these could drop, could go up. And I think why the markets don't react is as long as it's not good or bad news, either extreme. They have it plugged in now. The markets haven't been right. If you look at the last couple years, they thought the Fed was going to do four or five even though the chair had come out, we're only going to do two. That doesn't take rocket science to figure that out. And I think that's where the pricing is happening. He's like, you should expect none until you hear. So until you have at least 1 to 2, and maybe we get to 1 to 2 price decreases by the end of the year. But that's still pretty bullish. When this airs out September, that would be big news. If Fred chooses to make a jumbo rate cut in September. I highly doubt it. There is my prediction, but maybe they do and I'm wrong and they do that. But I actually think that consumers, if we're at the where we are going into later this year, into the holiday period, is really going to be telling Bill to see what consumers really feel. Are we the same holiday spending that we were last year? Yeah, it could be year over year. But what items are they buying? What items are they stocking in on? That changes the behavior. Back to that and then to your question about innovation, the ability to. If you're a global country and you're doing business in the targeted countries that the US Administration is focusing on, does that change? And if it does, it's too late to change the way you do business in different places. But we're seeing all these deals being cut. So it goes back to the point why markets are not reacting as of right now. Oh, it's still same business, just a little less revenue.

A (27:00)

I know it was James Carville, the strategist, and he said something akin to in his next life, he wants to come back as the bond market. And he was talking about is the economy stupid? And the bond vigilantes. And this big beautiful bill just passed at a time where our debts and deficit are just off the charts and no sign of them moving in a southward direction anytime soon. And the Fed, I guess, can set rates on the short end of that curve. But we rely on sovereigns around the world to fund our economy and they fund that based on the perceived risk they're being asked to underwrite. I don't feel, and again, you would have more informed views on this than I do, we're not paying enough attention to where we are from a balance sheet and a fiscal budgetary standpoint. And these numbers, we've become immune to them because they're so damn big we can't imagine them. But what is the bond market thing? I mean, is Carville right? Is it going to be this big scary animal that's going to eventually wake up and say, I've had enough, it's leverage.

C (28:06)

Right. I think last time I talked about that on air on the newsroom, it was a year ago. And the reason it came up in the news was because countries weren't playing ball. That's exactly why it comes into conversation and people kind of go, oh, this could happen. Now the ability of the bond market like you were talking about, like there is a line that you can't cross. If that makes any sense of like keeping the piece is not the right word. But you know, financial sense, how's that sound? There's gotta be a financial sense that keeps that market where somebody doesn't call on those things. And I think that's scary in any ability. But you can get out of that right now in the way that the economy is working. So you would think that, well, you don't want to put yourself in that position. But the US Economy is, and it doesn't seem like it thinks that everything's going to be okay and one day it couldn't. It's a leverage point. But because we're intertwined at this very moment, it is a very hard thing for somebody to call on that. But you said something that, to me that strikes me that people forget you said something about, well, I don't know what long term view is. I don't think that any of these conversations have a real long term implication unless you can Correct me if I'm wrong. Like yeah, there's a short term, that one to five years of being. These are the conversations we're having because we're making decisions right now. If you're making decisions for long term, you would probably. It'll cost you more, it'll spend more. That's the scary part, you know, that's the part of where you ask a lot of things that we do talk to younger folks. Why I feel being accessible and responding is important because this is the generation that's, that generation is going to be the ones with the decision makers and anywhere we can share our knowledge or be helpful, I think we should.

A (29:51)

And you mentioned early on, if I get in the context financial literacy and if I could teach just one thing and be guaranteed, it's going to sink into the skull of everybody that hears from me. It's long termism and I think we spend so much time tacking in and out and Even in Washington D.C. it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on. The agenda is only as long as an election cycle. And if you're going to be charged with solving for protracted long term problems, you're not going to get reelected. If it's not the popular vote today. And even the markets and Ben Graham often said this, that they're voting machines in the short term, weighing machines over the long term. And I think the long term weighing machine is even longer term because I think we're all sort of dancing as fast as we can hoping that nothing implodes before I get out of the market. So I think globally and certainly the U.S. i think we have a short termism problem and I don't know how we solve for that. Maybe if you can do that, Joe, we can add Nobel Peace Prize winners.

C (30:53)

I'm just trying to get everyone to come together and be, get smarter so we can make better informed decisions. If we can get there one day, that's great. It'll be fascinating to see. It always is, you know, how things react, how people react, how markets react, how we just haven't seen to even tie it back to innovation. Like everyone needs to understand what innovation is now. Like it doesn't matter who you are the remaining time.

A (31:15)

Right. I just, I don't know if there's another theme here, but I want to read you a quote that I just read in the most recent Economist and, and I underscored, I don't know why, but then listening to you and this has to do with war, maybe war crimes. I Forget the nature of the story but I think it this is concept of financial markets about widow or widower makers a trade that the risk is just so high. And I think one of the issues that all investors suffer from is this time it's different and it rarely ever is. But this is an interesting quote. So it says once again the world is entering the age of disorder. Multilateral institutions founded after the second World War, from the UN to international courts and here charges of crimes against humanity are losing their authority. The final fate of post1945 system will not be known for some time. So I think we're changing norms and breaking down norms and entering into a more tech enabled future where we usually have something in the past to anchor to to say okay, if that's my anchor, I have a sense as to where things are going to go going forward. But I think the difficulty for me, and maybe even more so with you as maybe not self proclaimed but maybe tagged as a futurist that you don't have a lot to anchor on and you have to kind of go out on a limb. Now you. I'm sure there are some things you can anchor against but how difficult is it when norms are not going to be indicative or less indicative of a very, very different future?

C (32:45)

I mean Bill, it doesn't matter what you and I think, whatever it's going to happen like even doesn't matter what I think about should you use AI or not? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I say or you say because they're going to use it. They meaning communities, the world because it's accessible, it's easy and it goes there. Now to me, I look at things like that and go okay, I can sit here and argue, vice versa or do I throw myself in there and go where are for me not to anchoring points but where are the things that I see that is familiar to me. So to use an example, I guess, and it's a hot topic right now, is the future work specifically, should you be in the office or not? That's the conversation that you know, I said a couple years ago, hybrid is here. You're going to have to address it like it's not going to just go away. If you want people to come back in, you're going to have to give a reason to. Now why I use that example Bill, is because technology has came into that. What's the norm there? Just to go back and say now everyone has to come to the office. No, you have to actually Explain now why you need to come back to the office for majority of the companies. Think about that, Bill, if someone told you 15 years ago, like, hey, no, I'm not coming to office no more, you'd be like, well, you have to. And so I think what's scary, I don't want to say I'm numb to it, but it's like, of course this is next in disrupting this. Like, I just feel like everything's disrupting something, and if it's not, then it's not normal. No more. You expect as an individual or as a leader in the business to be curious about those things to disrupt. I don't think we're in the place where I used to feel like people would say innovation is like, oh, I added an extra button to a shirt. That's innovation. We're adding one more thing. That's not innovation no more. I'm sorry. Like, it's got to be like something completely different button a shirt that buttons by itself, who knows? And I think to me, that's going to be the new norm and understanding. Also, I've said this before and why it's important. Top of mind. You mentioned financial literacy hasn't kept up with the times. Cybersecurity literacy, another one hasn't kept up because there's new technology. There's so many norms being broken in those two things, even though they're not new concepts, if that makes any sense. I mean, there's examples of, like, disruption when you think of the printing press and these kind of things in the past. And yes, there are examples of it changed the way the economy worlds, but there's more people, it's more faster. And the way we look at things have changed. And I think I'm not surprised. You're always surprised. I'm not surprised anymore. Like, if you tell me tomorrow, like, the hologram of us is going to be on this podcast and we didn't really do it, and it's going to happen. I'm not surprised. I mean, Bill, you're going to replace me for my AI insights. They're going to know more insights than me. But it's up to me to figure out how to be better than the AI. Why you should want to listen to me.

A (35:41)

The future of work gets a lot of play, and I think it is going to be a balance. It can't be black or white. And I think we should embrace some of these tools that we had to use during COVID and figure out where we're going to go with it. But I do worry about and I'd love to get your views on this maybe Ryan, It's a closing observation. The future of leadership. And at some point, not too far down the road, that class of 2020 that entered the workforce always got their college degree online and this is all they knew when they began their career. They're going to be in that class moving into the C suite. And maybe AI is going to make a lot of the norms that I understood in my career quaint or maybe obsolete. But what does the future of leadership look like? And are we doing a decent enough? And decent isn't even the right standard. It's much higher than that to prepare this next generation of leaders because it is a very, very hard job today and in a more tech enabled world where maybe your entire workforce of tens of thousands of people never convene as a group.

C (36:45)

I don't know the first thing that comes to mind and I've said this and I guess it's more relevant now because AI is more prevalent. But I was saying this before AI so I can get credit like be human, be yourself. I think that will always be so important. Be authentic, be genuine. But you can't fake that there's not something you practice at. That's something that you are as a person. And I also think the true one word answer if I didn't give it to you was communication. If you can communicate. I'm not saying communicate as oh, I got to get this person to sell a pen. I don't think I could sell anyone a pen if I could in my life and I still can't. But just to communicate in a way that it's clear no matter if you're and the wrong or right, be transparent. Where you stand is so powerful people take it for granted. This one, the highest compliments you just gave me, which it means a lot to me. You're like, well I, I send you a dm and you responded like some people will be like, well why is that accomplish. It's a compliment because we're all busy and that you saw that I appreciate that that's what I'm trying to do. And that to me goes, yeah, of course I want to be on with you the same thing. I drop you a note, you responded back to me. And I think to me people, it's so underestimated. And I think that's the future of leadership. I really do. To really break down and have a real conversation is a skill set that you already needed. But it's even more Important now, just because of all the moving pieces we just talked about over the last 40 minutes in the world, in your house, the way you work with people, personal and professional lives, it's been more intertwined than ever before. Like business leaders are now having to address policy. You know, that used to never be the case.

A (38:25)

Right.

C (38:26)

To be able to talk about these things. And so you think about all these layers that are being handed, and then you think, well, what's the future leader? Being a good leader is to lead people well, yeah, but it's a different meaning now. Do you know them as a human? Do you know what they want to strive in their professional lives? Like, maybe you could ignore that in the past. I just don't think you can ignore that in the future.

A (38:47)

Yeah, I agree. And I've always felt that small ball matters a lot. No matter how pressing these big themes are, you always have to make time for a colleague or somebody coming up or even a student, and you can't do it every time. And maybe based on your words just now, Ryan, Your inbox and LinkedIn is going to explode because you present to yourself.

C (39:06)

I promise you I will try to get to everyone, and if I don't, you send me another DM and I'll respond in any way. I might not be able to help, but you'll see a response from me.

A (39:15)

Yeah. Which is outstanding. I appreciate you picking up mine because I was just a stranger to you as well. I try to channel that myself. And you've got a much bigger platform and a lot more people tugging on your cape, so. So thank you for that. And I thought, this is an excellent 40 minutes. I think the listeners are going to learn a lot. And one of my most important mentors always said to me, the future's unknowable. And he's right. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't be preparing for it based on the very best inputs. And then you gotta be adaptable and you've gotta persevere. Fail forward, fail fast. There's a lot of slogan you could put behind it, but it speaks to the character of the person that you have to be if you want to be successful in a very changing world. So, Ryan, thank you.

C (39:58)

Well, I appreciate you, Bill. Thank you for having me. And to listeners, the biggest thing you can do is invest in yourself. Spend the time learning things that you always want to learn. You'll be surprised how things kind of interconnect in your experiences. And I've been fortunate that that has occurred. That has occurred. People see that now. When I first started, maybe it was people telling me, staying in your own lane. And I think I just get so excited when I get to meet people who really see all those connections and. And I think that's important. Like, that is so important how we evolve as people, leaders and as human beings and businesses together. So appreciate you for having me.

A (40:33)

Great. And I know I'm from Massachusetts and nobody stays in their same lane, so that maybe not good advice for the driver, but excellent advice for the future professional. Ryan Than thank you for listening to Educational Alpha. I'm your host, Bill Kelly. Learn more about the Kaya association and subscribe to the show at caia.org. that's C A I A Org. See you next time.