B (2:24)

Happy birthday, Mike.

A (2:25)

That rocked me a bit. Because I think 34, I don't know how you feel, but I think 34 is the first baseball age that feels old to me. Is that how you would. Where would, where would you put that when you see age X season and you think, oh, he's really getting up there?

B (2:46)

I think maybe. I agree that it's 34 now. Having said that, I don't think that that necessarily makes you actually old, even in baseball. Terms. Right. Cause we always have to make this distinction between the normal 34 year olds walking around in the world and then those who happen to play professional sports. But I think that 34 is where you have background anx about small injuries or dips in performance being harbingers of a broader decline. Obviously with Trout, we have some circumstances particular to him that brought that concern about earlier. We've been worried for a minute, but I think that when they hit 34, you know, if they have a couple weeks stretch where they're playing poorly, you start to go, hmm, what does that mean? You know, does that mean anything? Is this indicative? Is this a harbinger? You're not really looking for harbingers when a guy's 30, you know, you're just like, he's having a bad two weeks. But I think 34 is when you start to feel nervous on behalf of.

A (4:03)

Strangers, you know, and it depends on the player, obviously, and maybe it depends on the era. This is probably changed as the aging curve has kind of moved up a bit. When, when we were young and was the steroid era and you had these sort of anomalous aging curves. And of course you had guys who were really great and deep into their 40s then. I don't know that I would have attributed anything to 34, but. But now 34, I don't know, it feels like you've kind of crossed a chasm there. It's, it's, you know, it's not enormous difference between 33 and 34, but 33 just. It feels like it's the other side of that divide for me, for whatever reason.

B (4:43)

Yeah. I think that to co. Mingle it with life stuff, you know, when you hear about a, like a 34 year old who's a homeowner, you're like, yeah, that's the thing that people do at 34. I mean, not me, but like that people do. And you, you maybe are reacting to it differently. If the person is like 24, you're.

A (5:09)

Like, Whoa, how did that work?

B (5:11)

Which grandparent wrote that kid a check, you know, so just to like be specific. So. So there's that piece of it where you're, you're into a different era of life, both as a player and as a person, which, you know, has an era component to it also. Right.

A (5:27)

And yeah, it's in the grand scheme of things, still a young man. So we're talking about sports old. And it feels fraught to talk about this now that we are older than this, but still it's Especially striking, I guess, just because I met Mike Trout in a sports sense from afar when he was a teenager. He came up when he was 19 years old, and so that was a full 15 years ago now. That's a long time. Because he played such an outsized role in this podcast past, and because his rise and establishment as the best player in baseball coincided with the beginning of this podcast, it was, I think, an early topic in our rookie year of effectively wild. Like, is Mike Trout already the best player in baseball? And in retrospect, yeah, probably he was, but he has fallen far from that now. It's just he's. He's not that entertaining a player now. He is actually the league leader among all qualified hitters. He has the highest 3 true outcomes percentage.

B (6:31)

Okay.

A (6:32)

Yeah. So he's at 51.1% of his plate appearances have ended in a walk, strikeout, or home run. And I don't know if that's inherently less interesting. I mean, Aaron Judge is second. He's quite interesting, you know, so I'm not saying that that necessarily means that you're a boring batter if. If you're just the three true outcomes guy, but he does strike out in 30% of his plate appearances these days. That's a lot. And even though he walks at about half that rate, which is still considerable, he doesn't do that much when he's on the bases anymore.

B (7:08)

Right.

A (7:08)

He's stolen two this year, and he probably shouldn't. He probably shouldn't strain himself in that way. But of course, he was such an exciting runner and baserunner and base sealer when he was younger that the fall from that is also stark.

B (7:27)

Yeah.

A (7:27)

And this is really, I guess, the first year where you could say, just looking at his sprint speeds, that he has lost a step. At least he's still an above average runner. But he's 67th percentile sprint speed this year. And basically every year of his career, he's been 90 or above. Like even as recently as last year, he was 90th percentile, and then the year before that he was 96th percentile. Like, he was still not necessarily stealing as much, but when he wanted to, he had that gear.

B (8:01)

Yeah.

A (8:01)

And I guess it's possible that he still does and he's just not shifting into it as much because he's trying to preserve his body, which is probably a smart calculus, but the fact remains that we just don't really see him getting up to his old top speeds anymore. He's no longer a center fielder, which again, is also probably for the best.

B (8:22)

Right.

A (8:22)

He is probably a below average right fielder even now. So it's just like a guy who could do absolutely everything when he came up and was, was known for that other than I guess throw really well. Although even that weakness he kind of corrected over time and now he doesn't really do anything especially well. Except he, he hits still fairly well. You know, he's in the 1.30ish WRC plus range, a little bit below that. And I've been hoping that there more there because he has had a bit of a expected weighted on base, actual weighted on base disparity. Yeah, yeah. But it's, it's not that huge a gap and this is the third season now that he has had some significant gap between those metrics. So maybe this is just who he is now.

B (9:15)

Who he is now.

A (9:16)

Yeah. And you know, in this era of baseball there aren't many 34 year old hitters who are like even this good anymore. So. But man, it's just, it's kind of deflating that, you know, he's gone from either great or unavailable to now even when he's available, he's just kind of good, I guess.

B (9:39)

It's tricky. I wonder if we shouldn't have been, I don't know that you would describe yourself as blindsided. So maybe I'm, I'm fighting with a guy I made up. But I wonder if we shouldn't have been quite so surprised because, you know, part of the chore of sort of persuading people who looked at Trout and saw, even at a time when he was the best player in baseball, sort of a boring guy. You know, part of getting people to appreciate just how good he was was helping them to understand like the, the completeness of the game. The way that he was able to do everything well even if he wasn't, you know, a standout in a way that was obvious compared to someone like Judge, where it's like you have, you have this guy who has one of his tools that is truly several standard deviations above and beyond everyone else. Right. Like you don't need to persuade people that like Aaron Judge can hit the baseball far and with force. No, Mike Trout's a good home run hitter too. Right. But it was a more muted, every tool was a little bit more muted than the guys who were like sevens or eights. But he was able to do all of them very well. Right. And he had this profound capacity to improve in areas of his game where he perceived or others perceived that there was weakness. And So I wonder if with a guy like that. Yeah. You're just gonna end up having sort of a boring middle or decline phase because it's like, yeah, now you're taking all of these tools that were previously like quite good but not loud necessarily all at once. Right. Like the cacophony came from them in concert. Can I straighten this musical analogy any further? And now you've sort of turned down the, the volume on all of that.

A (11:25)

Yeah. And he's been a three true outcomes guy for a long time.

B (11:29)

Really.

A (11:29)

Other than his rookie season, he was in the 36 or 37% of plate appearances range. And after that he's pretty consistently been in the 40s, mid-40s. I think there was even one year, maybe 2021 when it was even higher than this year. And the league wide rate has increased since his rookie season at least, though it's actually been down a bit lately. It appears to have peaked at well, 2020, I guess if you count 2020. But if you don't count 2020 then 2019, 2021 were around 35% of all played appearances league wide and now it's down to 33.4%. So MLPs kind of gotten that under control or it's self corrected in some way. But yeah, it's just like old player skills and old player profile at this point and, and there are only a handful of guys older than he is or as old as he is who are hitting better than he is. That's just a reflection of this era of baseball. Even though he turned 34, this is his age 33 season. And the only qualified hitters age 33 season and above who have a higher WRC plus than Mike Trout are Aaron Judge, George Springer, who's had a fun bounce back season.

B (12:47)

Yeah, sure has.

A (12:49)

Max Muny, who has returned to the Dodgers now, Freddy Freeman, fellow Dodger, and Aenio Suarez. So that's it. It's not a long list of guys at that age who are better than he is or have been better than he is. But yeah, I just wanted him to defy that, of course. And I guess if he has a Pujolsian compiler phase now, then that wouldn't be the worst thing. Like he's at 398 home runs. So in short order he's probably going to get to 400 and that'll be a nice little milestone for him. Yeah, and it would be nice if, if he could just stick around and manage to stay in the lineup and yeah, hit 2530 homers a year the way that Pujol was. And if he could get to.500 at some point, that would be nice. Obviously, like, the more optimistic outcomes for him, war wise and being a inner circle, great by that metric, and being one of the best of all time, as he was through age 27 then, that's been off the board for a while now. But it'd be nice if. If he could at least get the career numbers up a little higher so that, you know, there'd just be a little less of a. A taint to the overall career where we wouldn't have to think just, oh, the. The talent, what could have been, if only he had aged better than that. And, and we could just appreciate the great body of work and the thrill that he gave us for the first 10 years or so of his career, and hopefully that's what will be memorable in the long term.

B (14:29)

I'm optimistic about that. I thought about this a good bit when we were going through Griffey's hall of Fame conversation, right? And obviously his career is very much bifurcated between the part that we all loved and were enthusiastic about and then his time basically with the Reds on. And I know that we're aware of that, like, clearly, I just brought it up. It is part of his story as a ballplayer, but when the time came for him to, you know, be fetted in Cooperstown, nobody cared about that part of it. Right. We were just. And obviously, Griffey had a cultural import and impact that Trout has never had. Right. Like, you can't. You can't put his fascination with the weather up against Griffey just being like, the coolest guy in America for a while, you know, and so there's a difference in their. In their stories related to that, obviously. But I have a feeling that when the time comes for us to mark Trout's career, we're not going to be worried about that piece of it. I think, if anything, if there's any regret that we end up having related to his career, like, sure, yeah, I wish that he had just stayed himself for the remainder of his 30s. But I think the thing that people are going to feel the most sort of remorse over is the fact that he just was stuck in Anaheim and only had limited postseason exposure as a result of that, I have a feeling that'll be a much bigger part of the what could have been narrative as it pertains to Trout. But, yeah, I could be wrong.

A (16:08)

Yeah, maybe that's part of it, too, is that we're not even really talking about the larger Angels, quote, unquote, wasting Mike Trout or Mike Trout never being on a good team team anymore. Though that is still true, even though the Angels have been a bit more respectable than expected because Ohtani's not there anymore. Because no one was expecting the Angels to go anywhere this year. It's just. It's not really front and center. It's not top of mind thinking, oh, yeah, another season that the Angels have. Have squandered with Mike Trout. It's just they have both kind of faded in parallel at this point.

B (16:43)

I want to be careful that I'm not like, blaming Mike Trout, but, like, Mike Trout also made proactive decisions to stay in Anaheim. Right. You know, he. He wanted to stay there. And I have a feeling that if at a different juncture in his career, if he had really made a point of it, he could have. He could have gotten out of there, you know, if he had wanted to, either by not signing one of the extensions or by saying, hey, trade me. You know, he didn't do that. You know, he wanted to stay there for reasons some of which I find admirable and some of which I find kind of confounding, but it's hard. It's hard to say that they didn't waste Mike Trout, but also Mike Trout decided to stick around. And I bet Angels fans, you know, this most recent couple of seasons notwithstanding, are grateful to him for that. You know, I was. I was grateful to Felix for him deciding to stay like it. It, you know, profoundly altered my enjoyment of those Mariners teams. It did facilitate them being more frustrating because I was like, you're ruining this. Let him be. Why? No October. I sounded exactly like that. Like a lesser Muppet, maybe. But, you know, Trout. Trout made his bed. He decided to stay in it.

A (18:04)

Yeah. Multiple times he decided. And. And he reaffirmed that fairly recently when the topic of Mike Trout being traded came up and he pretty consistently said he didn't want to be traded, he wanted to stay, he wanted to win in Anaheim. At this point, that ship has sailed. Like, unless they want to just eat the contract, he's got five years and about 185 million left on his deal after this year. Yeah. And.

B (18:32)

Wow. Wow.

A (18:33)

Yeah. It's a lot for. For the type of player that he appears to be now. And you're not even going to get, like, Mike Trout trade speculation at this.

B (18:42)

Point, because there was none at the deadline. There was a. No crickets found to chirp that particular song.

A (18:51)

Yeah. Because at least up until a couple years ago or, you know, you could talk yourself into. Well, every time he's been on the field, he's still great. And now you just can't because the extended exposure to him kind of counterintuitively has shown that maybe that upside, that ceiling has lowered. So, eh, it's a bit of a bummer. I do think we need a, a different way to refer to that phenomenon of a team not contending, not being good while it has a great player other than wasting that player. Because I, I do and I know we're in agreement on this, that, that there is a great value in having. Regardless of whether your team is any good. And in some ways if your team is bad, it's even more important to have a guy like that who is maybe a career angel at this point and wanted to stay. And that means a lot to the fans. And even if he's in his elder statesman phase, he still hopefully conjures some warm fuzzy feelings and still flashes some semblance of the old talent and reminds you of what was. So there's a real value to that and especially if it's a phenom like Ohtani or like Young Trout, but even more Ohtani if you're an Angels fan and you can talk about having seen Shohei Ohtani perform at his peak for your team. Yeah, of course it'd be better if you could talk about how he took you to the playoffs. But still not too shabby. Not too many people have that sort of joy. So, sure, I don't know, maybe we could put it in terms of like failing to capitalize on that situation or something, as opposed to wasting it.

B (20:34)

Yeah, I, I think we might need some new, some new terminology there.

A (20:38)

You maximize Mike Trap, right?

B (20:41)

I mean, I, I still think that we have to grapple with the possibility that this is all our fault because the number of ailments we heaped on that guy, it's true. Hypothetical to be sure, but the number of them that we heaped on. I don't know how magic works, do you? You know, are we responsible? The wildest thing about Mike Trout is that, and I don't mean to say this is true over the current contract he's sitting on, but like over the course of his career with the Angels, he's still going to be on the right side of like a surplus value calculation. And like, not by, not by just a little bit. Right. He's not going to squeak by. This is the funny thing, when you get that part of the. And I'M you know, I'm making like, kind of conservative assumptions, I guess, about dollars per war, but still, like this is the, the wild thing that happens when you get to that level of production. It's like you can't, you can't be paid. I mean, you could be paid. I don't mean it like it's impossible, but in the current like salary and payroll environment, you're never going to be paid commensurate with your value because you'd be making like $60 million a year. So. So it's a funny sort of thing, isn't it?

A (21:57)

Yeah. So he, he has made to this point almost $320 million. Right. He's got a little more than 185 left. So he will have earned just a little more than 500 million through his baseball salaries alone. And right now, if you go to his Fangrass player page and just look at the, the dollar's value there, it's 670 million. And that is just the, the war. 86.9 times the dollars per war. Yeah, that's what that value would have gone for on the free agent market. Of course, he wasn't a free agent every one of those years.

B (22:37)

Totally.

A (22:38)

I guess slightly misleading, but. But, yeah, but that's not really misleading because that's also reflecting the fact that he was free agency. Players don't get paid what they're worth.

B (22:47)

So, yeah, he was making $650,000 in a 10 war season or whatever. It was like, my goodness.

A (22:55)

Yeah, so, yeah, there's a, a big surplus value there, even if, even if he contributes nothing from this point forwards. So anyway, I, I hate to be all negative and doom and gloom about Mike Trout again. I'm, I'm glad he's, he's out there every day. And if I do tune into an Angels game, which I do a lot less than I used to. Yeah, it's it's just nice to see him and his name in the lineup and everything and. Happy birthday, Mike Trout. Even though the premise for this bit of banter was that Mike.

B (23:25)

So you're less good. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's a far nicer topic than I was going to bring to bear because we were struggling a little bit pre show to be like, there hasn't really been any news. What are we going to talk about? We have, we, we have some news. Major leaguers to meet later. But the, the only thing I had landed on was, is Dustin May. Does his trade to Boston mean that he has the worst Hair to uniform clash in baseball. Discuss. That feels a little mean and pointed. I. I think I'm. Look, here's the thing. There's precedent for this. Everybody go look at what Andy Dalton looked like when he was a Bengal. That was bad. You know, it's not that Dustin May has this, like, very bright, distinctive head of hair. And I'm not knocking the hair. I'm saying that hair with the Red Sox uniform, like their. Their base, you know, home whites, is. That's rough. You know, it's not his fault. And it's not as bad as when Dalton was a Bengal, because when Dalton was a Bengal, it was like, good Lord, this is like something out of an old timey children's book. You know, this is bad. This is bad news.

A (24:40)

The only thing he could do, though, is, I guess, shave the beard so that there would just be less of the hair and. And cut the. The long, flowing mane.

B (24:49)

Yeah.

A (24:50)

So he could have it be such that you wouldn't see the hair at all because it would just be contained by his cap and he'd have no facial hair. And. And then I guess that would be one way to resolve that problem. If you see it as one, because it sounds like it. It could go well in theory, because you have the red socks and the red uniform and red hair. But red hair isn't really red.

B (25:15)

It's not really red.

A (25:16)

It's orange.

B (25:16)

Really.

A (25:18)

It's more orangey. And yeah, there's a little flesh there.

B (25:21)

Again, not as bad as Andy Dalton, who had a brighter red hair and an orange. And so it was like they didn't match. I don't think that Dustin May should shave the beard. I think the beard suits him. Him. It looks very nice. It's not the worst, but it's maybe the worst of the guys who got traded to a new team. You know, with the blue, it, like the Dodger blue, like, really provided a ready contrast. And then you were like, oh, okay, a ready, ready. See, like this. Doesn't this feel worse as a topic than. Feels like I'm picking on Dustin May. Dustin May had a terrible debut. Yeah, it was not good.

A (26:07)

Choose which team traded for him. He didn't choose the color of the uniforms. Red Sox didn't choose the color of his hair. Yeah, he chose the quantity of his hair. But I actually. I don't know. I. I think maybe the Dalton Bengals look might be better just because I. I actually think there's absolutely closer. I think there's the. The color palette, the hue there. It's A closer match.

B (26:29)

I think that's the problem.

A (26:30)

It's closer, but it's.

B (26:32)

It's not quite the same. You know, this is the problem. It's. It, It's. It's almost perfect, but not quite. And so then it was. No, no. He looks like the part of it too is that, like, Andy Dalton is much closer to, like, the Heat miser in his look. And so it looks to me, though.

A (26:56)

That he just like. Like he really liked being a Bengal and he took it so seriously that he just wanted to be Bengal colors just head to toe. And like, maybe he even. He even dyed it to embrace the Bengals color scheme, which I know is not the case, but that just looks to me like he just bleeds Bengal orange.

B (27:16)

Well, he's not a Bengal anymore. He's a Panther. Currently. He had. But he. I. I don't think that he dyed it. I think. No, everyone's like, I came to this baseball podcast to hear about Andy Dalton, current quarterback for the Carolina Panthers. Backup quarterback for the Carolina Panthers. No. When he was at tcu, his boy, the orange and the. And the purple. I don't know if I like that or not. I forgot he went to tcu.

A (27:42)

I'm not suggesting that he chose his hair color based on the team, just that it looks like that. Like, he. He took it so seriously that he wanted to just rep the team colors wherever he went.

B (27:51)

Right. But then he like, dialed it up a little too strong and you were like, whoa, Andy, too much. Anyway, Dustin May, I hope you have a better time pitching for the Red Sox than your debut because B boy, was that not the best.

A (28:04)

Well, maybe we can pivot for a second from a former phenom to a present phenom. I just wanted to remark for a moment on the similarity of the stats in Paul Skeens first two seasons.

B (28:18)

Okay.

A (28:19)

He has almost identical stats through this point in the season. Compared to his final stats from his rookie year, the era is 1.94 compared to 1.96. The expected era according to Statcast is 0.04 apart. The FIP is 0.12 apart. He is now thrown more innings than he did last year because he's made one more start. But on a innings per start basis, it's essentially the same. He's now. He's thrown 24 starts, 144 innings compared to 23 starts last year, 133 innings. He has essentially had the the same season. I guess if you wanted to nitpick, you could say that there's some aspects of this season that are not quite as good. He's not missed as many bats. The strikeout rate is a little lower. The average and I guess top line fastball speed is down a tad. Which I think is probably because we asked him about that on Effectively Wild when we talked to him this spring and we just put that in his head and the Jacob deGrom comp and hey, maybe you don't have to be max effort all the time. So he's lost or maybe intentionally taken off about half a tick from the average four seamer this year. But the control is like walk rate is basically identical. He's been a little more fortunate home run wise, home run per fly ball rate and thus home run rate wise. And so the strikeout rate is down a tad and the ground ball rate is down a tad. And so perhaps there's a little bit of better fortune buoying the line. But on the whole, he has just repeated a superlative start to his career. And it's really nice that a phenom like that, with all the hype that surrounded him, he has completely lived up to it. I don't know whether he's exceeded it, but he has not fallen short of it one iota. He has been, from the day he arrived, maybe the best pitcher in baseball. If you do the fan graphs war back to last May 11, which was his first start. He is second in Standard Fan graphs were to Tarik Skubal alone. So he's tops in the National League. And if you do RA9 based war runs aloud based war at fan grafts, he's number one. He clears Skubal by more than a win. Best in baseball. So basically fully formed best pitcher in baseball from day one. And unlike say Steven Strasberg, has not sprung and flamed out quickly after that that exciting debut. He has just kept chugging along and he's just been great. And I just, I feel like this is kind of just who he is. He's just going to put up these numbers as long as he has this sort of stuff.

B (31:18)

Yeah. And you know, we've seen him exhibit adaptability not only as it pertains to the velo, but also as it pertains to his repertoire. And so I can imagine the contours and sort of shape of his production looking a little different year to year depending on what he thinks he needs to adjust or alter. But it generally being of this caliber, that's pretty exciting and I would hope would ignite some urgency on the part of the team to like, really surround him with the kinds of not only complimentary players, but other core players who can really take advantage of that while he's around to offer it. Because if he keeps pitching like this and Pittsburgh's approach continues to be what it is like, the minute he can get out of there, you have to imagine he will. So, you know, I hope that, that Pittsburgh fans get to enjoy a couple of good runs with him because I wouldn't want to face that guy in the postseason. Are you kidding? Like, absolutely not.

A (32:22)

There were some rumors, reports that the. The Pirates were open to. Not open to, but like discussing an extension with, with Paul Skeens a few days ago, but then that was kind of downplayed by other reporters and I mean, they might express interest, but. But why would that interest be mutual at this point if it's, if it's anything close to the typical Pirates pay scale? And what could they possibly do to assure him that they're actually going to invest in the roster and surround him with complimentary players? So those conversations wouldn't go very far were I in Paul Skeens shoes. Unless I just really loved Pittsburgh. I don't know. Maybe that's the case. It's a nice town, but yeah, I don't see that happening. But. But I'm happy to watch him pitch. Even though it is a little depressing to see him lose as often as he has or to see the Pirates lose when Paul Skeens is pitching and for him to get as little run support as he has at times. I still do find myself tuning in to watch Paul Skeens quite often because regardless of how many runs the an Pirates offense scores while he's on the mound or what bullpen support he gets, I'm. I'm there to watch Paul Skin put on a pitching clinic and he has. So, yeah, his win loss record is 7 and 8. And I guess it's another nail in the coffin of. Of wins and losses for pitchers as something people pay attention to. I'm pretty sure that's been six feet under for a while at this point, but I'm still. I'm still deriving some joy.

B (33:56)

Now.

A (33:56)

I'm not a Pirates fan and I'm sure for Pirates fans it's probably possible to appreciate his pitching prowess. That was a lot of p words. But then also, I'm sure it's just infuriating.

B (34:08)

Sure. Yeah.

A (34:09)

Because every time he does that, you're kind of counting down to when you lose control of him and it's that same Conversation about wasting or squandering or, or failing to capitalize on. They're not maximizing Paul Ski and that's for sure. But, but he is maximizing himself, if not max efforting himself. His, his top speed for the fastball this year is down 1.5 miles per hour from last year. And I say, well done, sir. I say, yeah, congratulations. I say you're doing the right thing because if you can run A, a sub 2 era as it is or even if you end up with a low twos fit dip or something. Yeah, if the ERA comes up over to the horror, then please make that more sustainable.

B (34:57)

Can I offer you a little, a little trick for enjoying Paul Skeen's starts.

A (35:03)

Okay.

B (35:03)

And not worrying about the fact that he doesn't win them. Very often when he comes out of the game you just turn it off and you never, you just never see him lose.

A (35:14)

That's true.

B (35:15)

You just don't see it. You're like, well, I guess, yeah, you.

A (35:18)

Often know that he can't get the win when he.

B (35:20)

Right, right. But you're just like what happens him? Who could say, you know, who could, who could possibly offer an opinion about that? Not me. I've seen what I've come here to see now I'm moving on, moving on to something else. That's what I would do if I were you. That's what I do. When I watch Paul Skeen starts, I'm like, great, he's come out of the game. Surely there's another game on somewhere that I could watch.

A (35:44)

Yeah, I see some similarities between Skeens and, and Trout from a personality perspective. I do find skins to be a bit more interesting. Like even if he's, he's not flashy, he's not necessarily courting attention though he finds it sometimes courtesy of his girlfriend as often as himself. But it just seems like, you know, he, he has deeper thoughts and interests and yearnings and musings, you know, he's not always conveying them, I guess in the most scintillating fashion. But we quite enjoyed talking to him. He's not defaulting to cliches. So he's not self aggrandizing, he's not trying to draw attention to himself. But I get the sense that he is sincerely pondering questions and yes, answering them as he actually feels about them. And, and yeah, I enjoy him. And he has this sort of almost precocious dad energy to him which is kind of entertaining in a way in one so young.

B (36:50)

Yeah, I, I think that's Right. I, I appreciate anyone, you know, whether it's part of a formal interview or not, that just is comfortable taking the pause to like contemplate what you've asked them and think about it before they deliver an answer. I think that's a, a nice attribute to have. I'm glad that we could have a, a positive influence on, on Paul Skeens. Maybe that makes up for the fact that we were low grade cursing Mike Trout for like the better part of a decade. You know, I, Yeah, I don't know if, if that actually balances like cosmically, but I, I hope it does. We didn't mean to curse Mike Trout and I can't say that every single one of them was a curse, but I worry that a couple of them like, you know, kind of popped through the armor there, you know, and then it's like if you hadn't, if you hadn't talked about him only being able to eat meat or like.

A (37:50)

Right.

B (37:51)

Slowing down because he has all these coins in his pocket, like maybe he'd be.

A (37:56)

That's the thing that reassures me is that he has not actually been visited by seven biblical plagues or whatever.

B (38:04)

I mean, it hasn't been any of the things that we've raised.

A (38:07)

Right. It's not the exact scenarios that, that we, or to be honest, mostly our listeners over the years devised. So, you know, not us at all. It's not like there has actually been a permanent physical rain cloud that is suspended over Mike Trout at all times, metaphorically. Maybe it seemed like that at times, but, but not actually.

B (38:28)

So not actually.

A (38:30)

Yeah, his body has betrayed him, but not in the ways that we entertained on the.

B (38:34)

Okay, so it's not. At, at most it's our listeners fault, not ours individually, specifically the blame.

A (38:41)

I think that's okay. Yeah.

B (38:42)

Okay.

A (38:43)

But they do have a similarity just in how delightfully mundane their interests are also. Just like trout with weather skins with groundskeeping, you know, just like simple pleasures, you know, and that's, that's nice. For guys who are so great at what they do at such early ages.

B (39:01)

I would need a mundane distraction. If I could do what either of those guys could do, I would need to feel grounded in something that isn't highfalutin, you know, and we don't know them, so they may have other interests they've developed that work were unaware of that would, would be best described as highfalutin, I suppose, but. Or, you know, it's like taking care of your grass. That's nice. Nice to take care of Your yard. You know, gardening is a simple pleasure that many enjoy. That's really all groundskeeping is, is like more straightforward gardening.

A (39:38)

And they are highly intertwined weather and groundskeeping. So they could have a meeting of the minds. Their mutual interests have, have. Have a strong bearing on each other, really. So you got to take weather into account when you're keeping the grounds.

B (39:53)

Maybe Paul Skeens can come fix my lawn so the HOA stops bothering me. Maybe that could happen. It's just that it's so hot, Ben. You know, it's so hot. And that part of the yard, it's in shade. What do you want from me? Really? What do you want from me? I'm doing. It doesn't. They're just gonna seed it for wintergrass soon anyway. What do you.

A (40:12)

I'm in your corner there.

B (40:13)

Thank you.

A (40:13)

All right. So speaking of extensions for a player like sk, I was just reading something Neil Payne at his substack, the aptly named Neil's Substack. He did a little check in on the state of extensions and specifically pre arb extensions pegged to Roman Anthony's new extension with the Red Sox. And one thing he noted here was how rare a pre arb extension for a pitcher is. At least like a. A big high dollar one. It's almost unheard of and I guess that's not shocking, but maybe the, the magnitude of the skew toward position players sort of surprised me. So Neil writes here and he did some adjustments relative to average payroll in the first year of these deals to kind of put them on the same scale. And so he, he found, for instance, that Anthony's is the sixth longest of any pre arb extension since 2011, and it's the ninth largest relative to the league in that span. He found that each of the top 13 biggest contracts relative to an average payroll in year one of the deal since 2011 belonged to batters. So all of the top 13 were for position players, as did 25 of the top 26.

B (41:35)

Wow.

A (41:35)

The lone exception was Spencer Strider who signed a six year, $75 million extension for 2023. So no one else, no other pre arb pitcher has had that kind of high dollar dealer or long term pre arb extension. So that just makes the Skeens scenario even more far fetched. Although if you were going to give pre arb money and a lot of it to any pitcher, it would, yeah, probably be him, Paul Skeens. But that just does go to show. I mean, that's teams putting their money where their mouth is and saying, well, we just can't really trust pitchers long term. And even Spencer Strider, he, he has elbow surgery and comes back and doesn't look quite like his old self, at least initially. So that's really striking to me that if you're a pre R pitcher, you're just not going to get that kind of deal. Maybe that would have gone without saying, I don't know. But the fact that they're just like no exceptions to that rule really, that stood out to me. And Neil ran the numbers to see, okay, like how have these worked out for teams overall? And he writes, whether a prospect is a hitter or a pitcher, we can see why teams have trended toward buying up more years of players under team control, even if it means operating on less of a sample to evaluate the player's true talent and foregoing those ultra cheap and productive young seasons that are baked into MLB's salary system. If we look at the completed non veteran contract extensions in Spot Track's database since 2011, tracking each player's average value created per Fangraph's war based dollar valuations versus his average annual value paid over those seasons, we see that the typical pre arb extension across all positions offers more than double the surplus value per season as deals signed once a player hit arbitration. So you get twice the bang for your buck or even more if you can sign a player to a pre arb extension than if you sign them to an ARB extension. So that's why it has paid overall for teams to do this. And as Neil notes, that could be because only the best players tend to get those very early deals, right? Because if you're Roman Anthony, there's a lot of confidence that you're going to be good because you're young, you're good already in the majors you were the number one or number two prospect heading into this season. So you don't need as huge a sample of MLB production to say yeah, we trust this guy to continue to produce. And so yeah, the earlier you're signing someone in their career, maybe the more of a no doubter they are or a less doubter they are. Of course there are some guys who were doubters in retrospect. There's Scott Kingery, there's Evan White as you well recall and you know injuries played a part in in both of those guys careers I guess and also just not quite panning out but yeah.

B (44:40)

Too weird and ass to overcome. Frog and White.

A (44:43)

Yeah so but that's why it pays. And this is just going back to 2011 too. So this isn't even looking at earlier ones like the the first Evan Longoria extension where teams were probably making bank even more before players and their agents got a little more hip to this maybe being a bad deal for them on the whole. The other interesting thing that he notes here is that this does seem to be paying off for teams less and less over time. So he he breaks the pre arb signings into yearly classes based on when the deal kicked in, tracks the average surplus value per season for players who've completed at least 80% of their deals as of this season. It seems to be that these players are providing less and less of an edge over time. In fact, by the time of the class of 2020, our pre arb group was down to an average of just 2.3 million in surplus per year and negative 0.1 million among the batters specifically. So that could just be because that particular class had some not incredible players. Key Brian Hayes is in there. Miles Straw is in there, for example. But it seems like there's just diminishing returns, maybe that, you know, a. I guess the earlier you signed some stars, then they aren't available to be signed in subsequent years and so the earlier classes just look better by comparison. But he concludes, it's also true that just like any other novel strategy, the more it catches on and everyone starts doing it, the less of a bargain.

B (46:22)

It becomes because they're making more. So the surplus value is diminished because they're maybe making a little more on average with the deals than they used to. Right?

A (46:32)

Yeah. Because yeah, players, agents have looked at some of the steals that teams have gotten and players, maybe, it's hard to say, being hoodwinked, obviously, in all of these deals you're making many millions of dollars, you're setting yourself up for life. You're taking away any concern that you might have about just being left with nothing as long as you invest it wisely. But as Neil writes, the practice went from practically unheard of in the mid-2000s to having teams commit roughly 200% of a league average payroll to pre arb extensions in aggregate per season in the early 2000 and tens. So you start doing that more and more and players start to know their worth, I guess. And, and that doesn't mean that you don't go and get a Roman Anthony because he's really good and you want to keep him around for a long time. But yeah, it, it does seem to be a little bit less of a one weird trick life hack kind of thing like this will automatically pay off. Just incredible investment for teams. And now maybe the players are driving a harder bargain or they're waiting for free agency in some cases, or just fewer candidates because they've all been snapped up already. I don't know. But. But yeah, there are fewer of them, I guess. Or if not fewer of them than just fewer that are total slam dunks, home runs, touchdowns, whatever sports metaphor we want to use here. So maybe Roman Anthony will work out so well that the Red Sox will gain a great deal of surplus value here. They certainly hope so. Red Sox fans probably hope so too, now that he signed and they want him to be the best that he can be. But it was interesting. I think it shows why teams have been motivated to do this, why it has paid off on the whole, but why it's not paying off quite as well anymore. If you just go by surplus value, you. As opposed to just saying, well, it's a win just to keep that player in your uniform for a while and have that be a certainty.

B (48:33)

Yeah, it definitely depends on like how you're defining it. And to say, oh, they're, they're less of a bargain doesn't mean that like none of those players worked out or were good and productive major leaguers, even very good major leaguers. Was Brian Baio not a pre arb extension?

A (48:48)

He was, but I think he wasn't one of the top ones at dollar value. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's another thing like, like, gotta give the Red Sox some credit.

B (48:58)

They're doing a lot of these.

A (48:59)

They are doing a lot of these. Yeah. So I mean, you know, they, they signed Christian Campbell to one, and then he has a hot start and then he cools off and, and that went south quickly this season.

B (49:11)

Yeah, great. I think you would grade the Christian Campbell pre arb extension as incomplete at this moment. Like, it's just too early, you know.

A (49:18)

Right. But then, I mean, the crochet extension they signed Crochet, they signed Anthony, now they signed Bale. Like that's. I mean, you know, I hate to invoke another AL east team here, but Orioles fans are quick to observe that they've not signed anyone to an extension. So it's one thing to not break the bank in free agency. That can be frustrating. But if you are at least putting these other players in place and keeping them in place for a long time, and that's especially important for the Red Sox given their recent history of trading each face of the franchise in succession, you gotta make some sort of goodwill gesture to your fan base to say there is gonna be some continuity. It's not gonna be constant turnover. You can actually, you can emotionally invest right. In this young group of guys because we are financially investing in them.

B (50:12)

Well, and I, you know, I would imagine that if you're a Red Sox fan, and let's see if I thread the needle on this quite right. Because you know, different, some of those contracts are signed by different people. Like, you might have different folks negotiating them. But part of what I think the takeaway, one of the concerns to come out of the whole Devers fiasco was that this front office just wasn't able to have relationships with players that were productive. Right. And so if you're seeing Roman Anthony and granted Roman Anthony is going to make a lot of money and that can cover up all, all number of disputes. But like to see Roman Anthony say, no, I want to stay here, you know, I'm going to. I think this is a good deal. Like it, it offers him the ability to make much more money depending on the escalators. Like for him to commit to staying after you've just had this worry that the current administration is not able to communicate effectively with players, even long tenured and already extended ones. That has to come as something of a relief to the F. Right. Like, oh, well, it can't be that bad. He can't be that much of a robot. He got Roman Anthony to sign a deal and it's like, yeah, I mean like you put up with some robots if you're making $130 million with the potential for 100 million more. But you know, like he could do well in arbitration and then go be a free agent somewhere if he's as good as we think and the Red Sox hope and he opted not to do that. So that seems like a good sign.

A (51:43)

By the way, we neglected to mention one other very important extension for a young member of that team, Seydan Rafael, also to an extension and you know, is flourishing. So, you know, I'm sure there's still some cynicism and, and you can certainly look at the Devers and Bogarts and Betts era and say, okay, well those guys ended up not sticking around that long and, and the that that they put together around them just kind of didn't last. So in theory the same could happen. History could repeat itself here. Yeah, these guys could end up getting traded too. But this is what you have to do to reinforce and reassure. Like, you know, if you're going to trade all those other guys, you have to say, okay, but we have this foundation in place and many more prospects to come. And really there are very few teams, if any, whom I would rather have from a just sort of future value standpoint just based on they're young, excellent players on the big league roster and the prospect pipeline. Still to come, just how that whole roster is formed, some of the extensions. There are very few teams I think that you would bet on to have a better next five years or whatever just based on those fundamentals.

B (53:02)

And you're able to say both internally and to your fan base as you're thinking through, how do you then supplement that core? You know, you have all of this payroll certainty, you know what you're gonna owe for these guys who are so important to you. And I think that from a budget and planning perspective, it does put you in a good position. Not, not because, like, oh, and now we get to trade them. But it's like, no, we, we're gonna keep them and we know what the nine most important guys on our roster are going to be making. And so I imagine that that would facilitate some conversations with the ownership where it's like, okay, we have this, this group and it's not like they're inexpensive relative to making the league minimum, but if they're as good as we think, in five years, they're going to be making an under market salary relative to what they could get if they even were just going through the arbitration process. So, you know, give us the wiggle room to sign, you know, this guy who we think is important to pushing us over the line. We know exactly what that's going to cost. I think that's an underrated advantage when you're in roster building mode to be able to say like, no, we know exactly what Roman Anthony is going to make Now. I guess they don't know exactly what Roman Anthony is going to make because his contract has the escalators. But you get what I mean, like there's a, there's an upper bound to his earnings that is known to you today and it's known to you about, you know, what his salary is going to be four years from now. And that wouldn't necessarily have been true two weeks ago. So I think that that can help to kind of grease the wheels internally as planning a couple of years in a head ahead. Because you can say, okay, this is the year that we like this class of free agents a lot. We're going to spend big. So let's make sure that like we aren't in year two of Luxury tax penalties just, it allows you to potentially be nimble around some of this stuff in a way that I think teams that are really smart about how they construct their rosters often do. Like, we see this with the Dodgers a lot. I, I hate to be the one to compliment the Dodgers again. It wasn't even one of my bold predictions. But I just like to say that I was right about them. So anyway, I'm being insistent only because what nasty emails we got. Ben. Holy cow. Never, never ruder emails about anything in our entire, in my tenure. And I have gotten some doozies than people being mad about me saying that the Dodgers were not up. Surefire World Series winner. Good God. Anyway, they, they do this very well and they're not the only team that does it, but they come immediately to mind where, you know, they are committed to spending and they spend big and they aren't afraid to go over the luxury tax threshold. But they also plan several seasons in advance and so that, you know, if they have a year where they're unenthused about the free agent class, they might take it as a year to dip below, reset their penalties not because they're being cheap, but because they want to be able to go bonkers two years from now or whatever it is. Right. So I think that there's that advantage to it also. Wow. See, we said so many nice things about the Red Sox and meanwhile that person who sent the Blue Jays email is like what does my stupid baseball team have to do for you to.

A (56:17)

Guys, we've talked about the Blue Jays a few times in recent days. I know. Yeah, we've touched on them at least.

B (56:24)

When you're excited, you, you, you want more. You want nothing but Blue Jays talk. You want all Blue Jays all the time.

A (56:32)

Yes. What you just said about the Dodgers and, and the CBT makes me remember when we talked last time about that email that had the scenario where if you win the World Series then you're exempt from the tax.

B (56:44)

Yeah.

A (56:44)

And we said that probably wouldn't make that much difference in terms of team spending because no one is really an overwhelming favorite anyway. And effectively Wild Wiki keeper and Patreon supporter Raymond, he pointed out in the Discord group that that's for the best, that it's that way because you could end up in this sort of self perpetuating cycle where a team is the best and is exempt from the payroll tax and then wins the World Series and continues to stay exempt from that tax and then is able to spend more and more and more without having to pay the tax while everyone else does.

B (57:18)

Yeah.

A (57:18)

And then they could really make themselves into unassailable super team and it would just be sort of self reinforcing. So it is maybe for the best that baseball has the natural guardrail of randomness.

B (57:29)

Yes. They'd have to put a limit on it. They'd have to be like, you can't do this more than X number of times in a row.

A (57:36)

Yeah. Okay, we have two major leaguers to meet. There's one email that I'd like to address before we get to that. This is from Tommy Patreon supporter who has a question and wants some advice from us. This is a topic that we've touched on. I don't know if we've answered an email about it specifically perhaps, but Tommy says, how has distancing yourself from team fandom affected your enjoyment of the game? Is it more, less or just the same, but different? It seems like you, Ben, have distanced yourself more from the Yankees but got to experience multiple championships during more formative years.

B (58:13)

You, Meg, I'm reminded of this, like two days in a row.

A (58:16)

Hey, you, Meg, still remain very close to your Mariners but have not experienced the same level of success as a fan. That's a charitable way to put it.

B (58:26)

That is a nice way of putting it. Very diplomatic.

A (58:28)

As a fan of a team that has no interest in investing in their roster year after year, I'm wondering if it may be time to take a step back and try enjoying MLB as a whole. Is this the right decision for me? How would I even start? Is this too low stakes to bring up to my therapist? This is Tommy, who signs this message, a Cleveland fan. So assume that he's a Guardians fan, which I'm sure has been frustrating in some respects, certainly from an ownership and spending perspective. But also that team is always in contention. Somehow they managed to make it work and stay in it. So there are worse situations to be in as a fan, that's for sure.

B (59:09)

I really appreciate having the distance I do have and like, you know, on any given day I'd prefer the Mariners to win or not. I'm certainly in the minutia of them as a, as a team in a way that is unique among the 30. But I gotta say, like, it has been just such a joy to broaden my view. And it's not like I only watched the Mariners before, but. But I think that ballplayers are just so good now. You know, we're just in this and the game isn't perfect. And we spent a lot of time contemplating the ways that it could be different. But we really just are seeing such incredible talent at the big league level and getting to enjoy it and have it as, you know, a bomb when the Mariners are being lousy or being dopey or whatever it is is tremendous. But it's a delight in and of its. I've realized something about me and sports generally and this is not unique to baseball, but I was having this thought last night as I was watching the Seahawks Raiders preseason game because look, I can only be myself. Everyone, you know, can only ever be me. And I'm sitting there like getting excited about fullback usage, getting good God. And I think that this is what I believe and I reserve the right to offer a revision to this take if come October the Mariners are on a deep postseason run and it looks like they're gonna make the World Series or even win one. God forbid. The playoffs suck when it's your team, you know. And I, I, I know that I don't have a ton of experience with it, with baseball, but like I remember the anxiety of, of when the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. It's a, you're, you just have like gerd for a whole month. You know, you're nervous unless it's a blowout and your team's winning the Seahawks super bowl was great fun because it was like, you know, I won't bore everyone with the details of that game because blowout Super Bowls are only fun for the fans of the winning team. They're not fun for anybody else. I acknowledge that there was a moment early in that game where one of the Thomases on the Broncos and I don't remember which, got just like absolutely destroyed by a Seahawks defender. And I was like, oh, the Seahawks are going to win the Super Bowl. Like I, it was like the first series. I was like, see, I'm going to win this game though. And then they did emphatically, like they can't handle this, this, this, this, this record setting offense. No, it's going to go badly for them. So. And thank God that proved to be true because then the next year I got to experience devastation that I just get randomly whacked with every freaking Sunday for the rest of my life. It doesn't matter. But like the playoffs are so fun and they super suck if your team's in it, you know, and what you're able to just like, like sit back and like enjoy the quality of the play, the drama. It's a lot better of a time in my opinion. And this, this might just be my inability to generate regular cortisol levels anymore. This might be a Meg problem. But I think particularly in the postseason, being able to enjoy other teams, other players is really tremendous. Because when it's your guys out there or gals, like, you know, I've, I've spent a couple anxious storm championship runs too. You feel unwell, Ben. You know, it's like in your. It's like, it's an acidy feeling for me. I really would liken it to, to like, like reflux. You're unwell. And, and, and they go on for so long, like, good. My God. We just, you know, it's every sport now. You just play so much stupid postseason. Whatever. How are they alive at the end of it? You know, like, they just must be exhausted, their bodies broken, their spirits wavering.

A (63:39)

Of course, if, if your team is the last one standing, it's all worth it in the end. You'll have to take my word for it.

B (63:47)

Hey, again, I have experienced championships, just not from the Mariners. I am familiar with winning, sir.

A (63:58)

It's a good title for this episode. I'm familiar with winning, but no, it's familiar.

B (64:05)

I am acquainted.

A (64:06)

I'm glad that I had the experience of traditional dyed in the wool hardcore fandom where my mood rose and fall with the success of the team every day. It's definitely more even keeled without that. Without my mood being tied in a significant fashion to the fortunes of a single team where if that team lost in a certain fashion, it just would leave me dejected or angry that I don't miss so much. Although it's all just sort of flattened because you don't get as high highs really either. So there's a trade off there. There are aspects of it that I miss. I'm. I'm glad that I had that so that I can understand that perspective, having lived it, because that's the way that most sports fans experience sports and, and probably baseball most of all among the major ones, because it is a more regional game and people do view baseball through the lens of their local team for the most part. And I do think it's. You lose a lot if, if you do have that just sort of myopic, very, very narrow focus on a single team. I mean, that is certainly a legitimate way to watch and love sports in a way that many people do, but you are just costing yourself a lot of delight just by not watching the other teams except when they play your team or by actively rooting against them. I do think you can have the best of both worlds. I'm not suggesting that these are mutually exclusive. There are people who manage to retain their fandom for a team and still have this more global, holistic view of the sport. And I mean, you're one of them, I guess, to some extent, right? Like, it's. It's cost you a little bit of your attachment to the Mariners, and I think that's. It's not inevitable. I guess there are people who manage to. To cling to that single team loyalty and, and feel it as strongly as ever while still being very aware of everything that's going on. And there's kind of a fine line to tread, I guess, especially if, like, if you're a media member, you know, you don't want to be biased, you don't want to be a homer, you don't want to miss everything else that's exciting and going on there. But then again, you also want to be able to understand how fans feel and like, translate that into content, too. So if you can strike that balance. I think it's hard to do because it's not like I set out to not be a big fan anymore. It just. It happens.

B (66:47)

It kind of happens, yeah.

A (66:48)

Like, I don't know. I. I got older, I worked for the team. It wasn't like I was massively disillusioned by working for my favorite team or anything, but, you know, it's like it's a business and you're working for a team and you're working in baseball, and it's. It's not like you like baseball less necessarily, but it's, you know, it's not your diversion, it's not your recreation, it's your occupation, it's your profession, it's your vocation. So. So there's just a different relationship to it. And then when I left the Yankees and just became more of a writer or had started to do that before I was with the Yankees, then I just found it difficult to hyper focus on one team when there was so much else going on there. So I just gradually lost that focus because I just. I wanted to watch this other good player over there and that other team. So if you can find a way to do both, then by all means do. If you can still have your primary team that you really root for, but that doesn't preclude you tuning in to watch some other interesting team or some other interesting player, then maybe that's the best way for you to do it. I think most people go, if they shift, if their fandom shifts over time. And if it's not just, well, I'm no longer a fan, I lost interest in the sport entirely. It's more common, I guess, to. To go from being a fan of only one team to being a fan of the league than it is to go in the other direction, probably where you're, like, appreciating everyone and then you just decide, no, I'm. I'm only watching this team right from here on out. So I think there's something to be said for making that transition or at least dabbling, at least dipping your toe, at least seeing if you can retain your fondness for that one team while still expanding your horizons a little bit.

B (68:41)

Well, and I think that one way to maybe to give it a try is, you know, if you have. If you have MLB tv, starting with, like, watching the beginning, which is. It sounds like I'm saying the beginning.

A (68:57)

The big inning, begin with the beginning.

B (69:01)

Beginning with the beginning would maybe be a way to go because you get to literally just sort of bop around in a curated way where you're seeing interesting play depending on what's going on. So that's one approach. I think that sometimes I've known people who have found it easier to say, let's say you're a Guardians fan, pick an NL team in the same time zone so you're not having to brush up against a feeling of, like, well, but you've beat. You know, you've beaten my guardians before, and like, NL teams will have beaten your guardians too. It's tricky because I would say, like, go be a Cubs fan, but that might not feel awesome for you as a Guardians fan most immediately, but, you know, pick an NL team in your same general time zone so that you're not having to change the rhythm of when you watch necessarily, but you're able to kind of operate at a distance from the club that you're maybe keen to move on from. You know, I. I think part of why I found it easy to maintain some connection to the Mariners, even as I was watching more of the league for work, was that, like, they were just. I. I'm still in the Pacific time zone, and they were just often like the last game on, you know.

A (70:21)

Yeah.

B (70:22)

And so it's like, oh, I would close my evening with this. But I had already watched parts of, you know, the. The east coast and Midwestern slate, so being able to maintain your same cadence, I think can be helpful. You know, it doesn't always feel like work. I still enjoy watching baseball very, very much, and it can feel like, you know, it can feel relaxing, but there are times where I'm just like, I need a break from this. Like, after the deadline, I was like, I need a little. I need a little step back here just because, you know, you, like, I'm like, I can't refill the void with this yet. Like the. I need to fill the space in my stress load with something that isn't so proximate to work so that I can think about something that isn't work for the first time in two months. So, I don't know, just like, bop around a little bit. There's no, there's no right answer. Right. And there's also no wrong answer. If you, if you decide, hey, actually, you know, I've. I grew up a Guardians fan. I've been so committed to this. But, like, I'm watching the Tigers. This is a fun team and I like them a lot. Like, that's, that's fine. That's within your rights as an American.

A (71:44)

It allows you to manage your risk, to diversify your portfolio in a way. Because if your team is bad now, a part of fandom is that you stick with your team through thick and thin, and then that makes it all the more worthwhile, maybe when they get good again, you know, unless they're actively repelling you or leaving your city or something like that, but just a normal bad baseball team that comes with the territory for most fan bases. But if there is a downturn, that doesn't mean you desert your team necessarily, but maybe you check out some other teams, you know, you play the field a little bit. I mean, I feel like if Tommy is even asking this question, then there's an inclination in him to try this out, because if he's getting other team curious here. There was a time in my life where I couldn't have conceived of. Of not being a Yankees fan and not just watching the sport through that prism. So if, if you're even getting to the point where you're thinking, huh, maybe this would work for me, maybe I'm missing out here. Well, that's perhaps an indication that you could go further in that direction.

B (72:51)

Yeah. And just see how it goes, you know, and then if it doesn't grab you, the Guardians will still be there. You know, they. And, and here's the thing. They won't know. We're not going to tell Stephen Kwan you're fine. You just go try it out a little bit and see if anybody else grabs you. And then if not, you can just go back and say hello to Jose Ramirez and act like nothing happened.

A (73:13)

Yeah. It doesn't mean you love Stephen Kwan or Jose Ramirez any less. You're just making a little more room in your heart.

B (73:20)

You're making more love. Yeah. You're making room in your heart for more love. And wouldn't we all benefit from doing that? Really?

A (73:27)

Yeah.

B (73:28)

Good.

A (73:29)

All right, well, let's make a little room for love for two new major leaguers in our recurring feature Meet a major leaguer, which has not recurred in a bit. It's been a while. I anticipated it. For once.

B (73:44)

You gotta. You, you. You're forcing it. You know, you're. You really. I know you really want to do it.

A (73:50)

Yeah. I'm in my head about it now.

B (73:52)

You're in your head about it and you can't, you gotta, you gotta. It needs to be call and respond and I can't. I, I had the thought the other day, I was like, maybe I'll t ben up for it's been a while, but then you'd know, you know, it's gotta. I gotta be caught unawares. So. Yeah, relax. It's gonna happen for you. Yeah.

A (74:12)

Well, one will slip out without my realizing it sometime.

B (74:15)

Oh, yeah.

A (74:16)

And you'll. You'll hit me with one and that'll. It'll work out fine. Okay. But we are meeting two new major leaguers.

B (74:28)

Meet a major leaguer. I am very eager to meet this Mason major leaguer. It's the thrilling debut of somebody new. Let's meet this mysterious major leaguer.

A (74:48)

There have been 183 new big leaguers this season through Thursday's games. And we have two here who have been suggested by listeners. We do take your nominations. We don't always take them. We welcome them. We don't always do them. But in this case we have. So we have a recommendation from listener Joel, whom you'll be recommending, and a recommendation from listener Patreon supporter Peter, whom I will be introducing you all to. So I will lead off here and my meter major leaguer. I always feel like this is show and tell. I'm standing up in front of the class and just like holding up this human person and telling people about him. But my guy is one Josh Simpson. Josh Simpson, who is a Miami Marlin. He is 27 years old. He will turn 28 later this month. Happy early birthday. He is a 62190 left handed reliever from Stafford, Connecticut. And he is a long shot major leaguer. As many of our meter major leaguers are. We tend to go for the non household name, non top prospect types whom you might not meet otherwise. And he is a 32nd round draftee. And there are only two other guys who've debuted this year who were drafted at least that late. There is Javion Sandridge of the Yankees who was also a 32nd rounder and drew Avins of the A's and Brewers who is a 33rd rounder. So Josh Simpson, 951st overall pick. He got himself a $25,000 signing bonus. And I've, I've said this before, I'll say it again, I'm going to miss when we run out of the late round guys when, when those like 30 something rounders just don't make the majors anymore because the draft doesn't go that deep anymore. It's going to be sort of sad. It's just, it's special when you have a 32nd rounder as someone who 950 players were picked ahead of Josh Simpson and yet he still made it ahead of most of them. So this was in 2019 that he was selected by the Marlins. So he is a career Marlon. He's just been working his way up through the system ever since. Of course he missed out on the 2020 season that was canceled, but he has just been working his way up. He finally made his big league debut this June 21 and he got clobbered. He pitched two winnings against Atlanta. He gave up four runs on three hits, two of them by a fellow rookie rookie on rookie crime. Although a major leaguer, you probably have heard of Drake Baldwin. Two of those three hits were by him. He singled against Simpson to lead off Simpson's first inning of work and then struck the big blow in the next inning, a three run home run. So Josh Simpson, probably not the biggest fan of Drake Baldwin that day. So after that game Simpson's ERA was 18. He subsequently got it down to 3.09, but now it has reinflated to 5.87 because he had two multi run outings recently. Reliever eras, it's, it's tough, you know, I mean I know that we don't put as much stock in ERA anymore, but like he's gone from having an 18 to a 3.09 and then back over 6 again. All it takes when you haven't had a huge sample season is just one bad outing to just completely change the conclusion that most fans would draw if they just eyeballed your stat line. Probably go from it's like the old game, Sam and I used to play. Is this guy good with relievers where it's just. It's hard to know sometimes, but certainly in a case like this where you have 15 and 2/3 big league innings under his belt. The good news is that of the 502 pitchers who have thrown at least 15 innings this year, the gap between Simpson's ERA and his Statcast based expected ERA is the 12th largest. So that's good. I guess. The underlying stuff augurs better results ahead. The fifth largest gap on that list by the way belongs to my best friend John Brebia, who I might add, in addition to that better expected ERA work in the majors when he was with the Tigers. He also has a 1.5 ERA in 10 games and 12 innings for AAA Gwinnett with a 10 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio and a 5.54 OPS allowed. So please call him up already, Atlanta. Anyway, Simpson sits 94, which is fine for a lefty, and has a five pitch mix, four seamer, sinker, slider change curve. Quite a diverse repertoire for a reliever. Throws each of those pitches at least 10% or so of the time. Thus far. He has missed bats, he's gotten grounders, but he has walked too many guys. The interesting thing about him. Well, there are a couple interesting things aside from the fact that he was such a late round draftee. One is that he is a former Phantom major leaguer. So he appeared. Yeah, he appeared to have made it back in 2023. In September he was called up by the Marlins and he spent several days on the roster and he never got into a game. And then they sent him back down again. The Marlins made the playoffs that year. He was not on the playoff roster. Technically he was recalled or he was activated on the day after the Marlins got eliminated. So I guess you could say he's been called up twice. Sort of just like he was on the roster at least. And he was expected to start 2024 with the big club, most likely. But then misfortune befell him and he had to have elbow surgery. He had left elbow neuritis and so he had to have surgery for ulnar nerve neuritis. Perhaps not so different from the kind that has plagued us at times with our slight numbness in our pinky fingers. Yeah, so maybe it was more serious for him or more serious for a pitcher in general. So he was on the IL for most of 2024 and then was activated only late in the year and got into some minor league action. And he's had other injury woes he had shoulder impingement, I think, the previous season that cost him a couple months. So to be that close to be in the big leagues in 2023 and then be a presumed big leaguer going into 2024 and have that just be a lost season must have been quite frustrating because you never know. I mean, there are a lot of guys who were phantom big leaguers who never got back and never actually got into a game. And I'm sure there were some, some long, dark nights of the soul when Josh Simpson was wondering whether he would be one of them. You start having elbow issues, you know, that's the worst case scenario. I was also reading some, some old articles about his initial call up story, which is interesting. Like, I wonder which call up story do you tell? Like if someone asks you if you were a former phantom major leaguer and someone asks you about, oh, how did you get the call? How did you find out you were coming to the big leagues? Do you tell them both stories? Do you tell them the first one, the second one? Do you tell the first one and then caveat it and then tell the second one? Or maybe to simplify things, you just talk about your first big league game or something, Maybe, I don't know. But I was reading about, you know, he found out late that he was getting called up in 2023 and he, he missed his manager's call and he had a few voicemails and he calls back and he finds out, oh, I'm, I'm coming. And it's late at night and he, he got the call and then his fiance was with him, but he called his parents and his sister and it's a lifelong dream and, you know, they've been with him every step of the way. And then they're frantically making travel arrangements to go to Milwaukee where the Marlins were playing the brewers. And like the, everyone's scrambling, it's the middle of the night, how do we get to Milwaukee? And they all get there the next day when Simpson arrives to join his new teammates. And then they're following him around and he doesn't actually get into a game game. So, you know, they were still with him at that meaningful moment. They get to see him in a big league uniform and everything. So I'm sure they didn't consider it a, a wasted trip, but probably a bit of a letdown, I would think. Anyway, hopefully they did the same and, and made the trip again for his, his actual debut in 2025. And the last thing that I will say, I saved this for last, I didn't mention where he was drafted out of. He went to Columbia University. So he is an Ivy Leaguer. And you know, whenever you have an Ivy League big leaguer, you will hear about that forever. For as long as they're in the big leagues, every time they come out of the bullpen, the opposing broadcast at least will inevitably mention that, oh, this guy, he's went to Yale, he went to Columbia, wherever it is. So he is, he is the sole Columbia grad in the big leagues right now. By my count, there are seven active Ivy Leaguers, or there have been seven at some point this season. There's Josh Simpson, there was Cole Sulzer with the Rays who went to Dartmouth. Hunter Biggie, also with the Rays, who went to Harvard. Ben Rice of the Yankees went to Dartmouth, as did the professor, Kyle Hendricks of the Angels now and then Matt Bowman, who pitched a bit for the Orioles this year, went to Princeton, and Brent Suter of the Reds went to Harvard. Brett Suter, underrated reliever. He's, he's very good year in and year out, I think, and seems to be a good guy. Entertaining guy as well. Loves the climate. Anyway, we have another Ivy Leaguer to add to the list. So I, I, I did just look to see which of the Ivy Leagues has been most productive or which of the Ivy League schools has been the most productive when it comes to minting major leaguers. I just, I looked in the draft era and you know, we're 60 years into the draft era at this point, so that's a pretty big sample. Though I know these schools pride themselves on going back to colonial times, I guess, with the exception of Cornell. So they did have big leaguers who predated the draft, but draft era only 1965 on. Would you care to, to guess which of the Ivy League schools has been the baseball powerhouse in a relative sense?

B (85:58)

Princeton.

A (85:59)

Princeton is second, I would say, in terms of total war. Yeah, total war generated their. Princeton, second third in. Yale is third in total war. Nope, Harvard's fifth. Yeah, it's, it's Dartmouth.

B (86:16)

Dartmouth, really?

A (86:18)

The baseball bastion of the Ivy League. Dartmouth has sent 10 players to the big leagues or, or 10 draftees out of Dartmouth have made the majors and have combined for 52.8 War, which might not sound like so much for 10 players, but is by far the most of any of the IVs. So, so yeah, 10 players, 52.8 war for Dartmouth. Princeton, seven players, 34 war. Yale, only three players, but 24.7 war. So all of The Yalies have actually been pretty good at baseball. You have Ron Darling, Craig Breslow and, well, Ryan Lavarn Way also was in the mix there. It's mostly darling, but then upennial. Four major leaguers, 23 war, and then Harvard has had some quantity. Eight players, but only 6.7 war. Brown just one. Only one Brown grad has made the majors and produced 4.6 war. That was Bill Allman and then Columbia. Four major leaguers, 1.5 war in total. Sadly, so far Josh Simpson has subtracted from that total, but hopefully he'll add to it at some point. Point and then Cornell skunked. Cornell has not sent a single big leaguer to the majors, or at least no one has been drafted out of Cornell and and made the majors. So I guess another way in which Cornell is the exception, not from the colonial era and no big leaguers drafted out of there. So some IV inferiority complex Ivy imposter syndrome there going on for Cornell, perhaps, But that's my story. Marlins reliever. Not the first Marlins reliever we have met in this series, of course, Declan Cronin, who is dear to me because he attended my high school and unfortunately has not been in the big leagues thus far this year, but also still in the Marlins organization in aaa. Wish him well. And now I will root for Josh Simpson as well, who is probably not the best known rookie to debut this year for a Florida team named Simpson Simpson because there was also Chandler Simpson of the Rays. But unlike Chandler Simpson, Josh is still in the big league, so there's that.

B (88:38)

Okay, well, my major leaguer is Dugan Darnell.

A (88:44)

Yeah. Oh, hey, Chandler Simpson's back in the big leagues. So yeah, I didn't. Didn't.

B (88:47)

Oh, I thought he had been sent down again, but yeah, he was back as of a couple days ago.

A (88:52)

Yeah. Okay. Dugan.

B (88:53)

Yeah, Dugan. Dugan. Dugan, who is 28, He's a right handed reliever for the Colorado Rockies and he has had quite the winding journey to the majors, which is, I think, why he came on the radar of listener Joel, who suggested him. Darnell is from Northville, Michigan, and in high school he was a shortstop, not a pitcher. All good players in high school are shortstops, but he was quite undersized. So he was only 5:1 and barely £100 when he started playing high school ball. And he told the Spokesman Review, which is a paper in Spokane, Washington in 2021. Quote, I was always the smallest guy on every team. I was that little shortstop who was just fast and quick and A contact hitter, and with that profile, you might imagine he wasn't heavily recruited to play college ball, but by the end of high school, he had grown a good bit. He was 59 and a good enough hitter to play for Division 3 Adrian College, which is also in Michigan. A good, good D3 program, but a D3 program nonetheless, and continued to grow and eventually shift to third base. And then. And here I'm going to quote from that spokesman review piece again. He was fooling around with teammates one day, throwing off the mound, and he was surprisingly topping out in the low 90s. That was the end of my junior year, beginning my senior year, he said. And that was where it all started. At first, I was just playing third base and chucking it hard over to first. The coach added to Darnell's responsibilities. His senior year, he played third and was the squad's closer. I didn't throw anything but a fastball, he said. I'd go from playing third base for eight innings to just going straight to the mound, throw as hard as I could and get my three outs. My body grew more. I got more into the weight room, into arm care, all that. And next thing I know, my senior year is a different story. His first full season pitching, which was that senior year, he recorded a school record eight saves with an.039 ERA. He struck out 37 over 23 innings. And he was a Division 3.4 fourth teamer, which doesn't sound particularly illustrious, but I'm sure he was excited and you know, he did all of that. But he. He was not drafted and started to line up other opportunities he was going to follow his brother into to finance. But before a job started for him, he said, I wanted to pursue baseball, so I just kind of called around and this is from a post on the Rockies, like official team blog. You know, all these teams have medium blogs now. This is by Jack Atkin, so he calls around Darnell, not Atkin. The Rockford Rivets in the Northwoods League, a collegiate summer league that uses wooden bats, said they could use this help. Darnell spent three or four weeks with that team. He went.01 with a 2,65-era in seven games, one start with nine walks and 19 strikeouts. Darnell said it went really well, but it didn't go well enough for him to get any pro authors. So I thought that was it, he said. I hung it up and went to work in Chicago. It was the real world. It was quite a perspective check, I guess. And he starts this job and then one day he gets a call from the Gary South Shore Railcats of the American association, and Darnell said he quit his job on the spot. He only appeared in three games for the Railcats, which might have made him a little nervous about having quit his job. He was there to basically cover innings for a guy who was on the injured list for the Railc, but it was enough to attract the attention of the east side Diamond Hoppers of the United Shore Professional Baseball League. And so he played the 2020 season with Eastside. He earned five saves and allowed just four runs in 28 innings, posting.031 ERA. And again, this is from the Spokesman Review. I was having a really good year. At the end of the year, a lot of different teams were calling, just saying, hey, you're on our radar. But with COVID nobody really knew what opportunities were going to present themselves, so that was just kind of put on hold. And he continued to work out and refine his approach to pitching, trying to build out his repertoire and have more than just the fastball. And then returning to the Rockies post after his success in 2020, he continued to train. He saw other minor leaguers signing minor league deals, guys getting ready to go to spring training. He was confident in his style. He felt he was physically and mentally ready to pitch an organized ball. He had to attract interest from a team, but he had no contacts in any team's front office. It was winter. How to be Seen Darnell took a desperate times call for desperate measures approach. He sent a two part video that included his most recent bullpen with rapsodo numbers and game footage from 2020 that highlighted each of his pitches. He sent the video to seven or eight major league teams, typically to about a half dozen people with each team. He looked for emails of front office members on the Internet. He found an email email. He sent the video. He was flying blind. He had no choice. I sent it to as many people as I could because I knew that deep down in my heart and in my mind I had the stuff. I didn't want to leave any what ifs, any stones unturned. So I was giving it my all. And one of the people to receive that video was John Wheel, who oversaw professional scouting for the Rockies at the time. We'll said he used to get several videos a month from players in independent leagues and had mentors who taught him. He always had time to respond to every single person that said. The response was typically thanks but no thanks. I was in charge of signing pictures, he said. I watched the video and I'm like Well, this isn't all that bad. This is pretty good. He had some leverage on the ball. He could spin the breaking ball. There was a little something there and his arm worked well. There were some text exchanges and a phone call between the two of them after he sent the initial video and that communication helped to sway him. But I'm saying Wheel but it might be vay w e I l How would we say that?

A (94:41)

I guess I would say while while, but I don't know.

B (94:44)

Regardless, he now scouts for the Nationals, but he said he had never signed a guy off video in his life. He doesn't believe in it, preferring out of respect for the craft to rely on the process where a scout would be sent to be to see Darnell throw. So he said. So there was some trepidation in signing him off off of video and while wheel they he called Darnell and told him him that the Rockies would not be sending a scout to watch him throw. Darnell was dejected and asked why and he said it was because they didn't want to scout him, because instead they wanted to sign him. So he signed in the off season of 2021 and he had a great spring training and ended up being assigned directly to low A Fresno. He had a 195 ERA in 2021, pitching between low and High A. And then he started what became sort of a familiar pattern for Darnell where upon his initial promotion to a new level, he would struggle very badly. And that proved to be true in 2022, which was much more of a challenge for him. He drew a Double A assignment and it resulted in an era and a fip in the fives. And then prior to the 2023 season, he went and played winter ball in Australia, which went very well. He pitched to a 241 ERA over 15 appearing appearances, striking out 28. The following season went better, at least at Double A, but then upon a promotion to Triple A, he had an ERA in the Sixes. And that brings us to his scouting report at Fan Graphs. This is his 2024 scouting report. He was 35 plus, placing 43rd on the Rockies list. And here is Eric's report. After he finished pitching at Division 3 Adrian College, he pitched in a few independent leagues and worked as a mortal mortgage loan officer. According to his LinkedIn. That's the scouting you get at FanGraphs. Until he signed with the Rockies, he has struck out more than a batter per inning since debuting an affiliated ball and has continued to strike out plenty of upper level hitters so far in 2024 touched 97 and the uphill angle on his fastball helps it miss bats. His splitters movement varies from pitch to pitch, at times looking like a slider, at others like a pure splitter and sometimes like just sort of it just sort of floats toward the plate and still garners an uncomfortable swing. After his velo was down somewhat in 2023, it is really rebounded early in 2024. He was sitting 94 to 96 early on at Hartford, where he was essentially demoted after struggling at aaa during the second half of the 2023 season. This guy has carved a unique path to the upper levels of the minors and is going to pitch in the big leagues as an up down reliever. I will note he did not make the 2025 Rockies list, so I think Eric was less impressed by the back half of his 2024 season.

A (97:20)

But this year not ranks on the margins list either. To be clear.

B (97:24)

Yeah, this year he posted a.319 ERA and a 371 FIP at AAA. And his contract was selected on August 1st because, as our listeners might remember, the Rockies dealt Jake Bird to the Yankees, so they needed some bullpen help. And now I'm quoting from Purple Rose Evan Lang, who is quoting Darnell saying, I blacked out. I thought I was going to cry, but I didn't cry. I was sweating quite a bit. I didn't cry until I called my fiance and I let out some emotion, just smiling, you know, driving back to my apartment to pack up. I'm like, is this real life? It didn't feel real until I got to the airport. And his first big league action came in a truly bonkers baseball game. He entered with the Rockies down 10 to 16 in the eighth inning. So these are meant to be low leverage innings, right? Yeah, you bring in the new guy, he's going to mop up a little bit. He got Brian Reynolds to ground out and then Nick Gonzalez singled. They're playing the Pirates, by the way, but o', Neill, Cruz, Cruz grounded into a double play and got him out of it. And then the Rockies scored two runs in the bottom of the inning. And but it's still, you know, it's still a four run game. So Darnell goes back out there for the 9th and he held the Pirates scoreless. Tommy Pham flew out to right, Joey Bart grounded out to second, Jared Triolo struck out looking, and that's why he was in line for the win when the Rockies rallied to walk it off in the bottom of the Inning, which is. Is bonkers. So his first big league game, he earns the win in a very improbable comeback. And after the game, manager Warren Shaffer said, I saw a guy that has taken such a long road to get here, a winding road, a lot of failure. I know I saw him poised out there tonight. Who knows what was going through his head. And for his part, Darnell said that he was thinking, focus on executing pitches, not getting freaked out. I was just trying to breathe. It felt like a movie. It's been crazy, but, you know, I've enjoyed every second of it and I wouldn't change a thing. All told, he has thrown five innings across four games. He has a 360 ERA and a 511 FIP. And that has been Dugan, Darnell, and the various people whose names I can't pronounce along the way.

A (99:31)

Yeah, I'm always skeptical of the. I wouldn't change a thing, but I.

B (99:35)

Would change so many things if I were him.

A (99:38)

But just might make it a little smoother and easier. But, but I do understand the, the, the philosophical, the perspective, you know, whatever didn't kill him made him stronger. And maybe he had to go through all those things to get here. And it's a good way to think about it. Right. Even if, if someone actually presented you with the choice and said, right, you could just be the best pitcher in baseball from the get go. Well, that'd be tough to turn down, but who knows, you know, I don't know. Maybe he wouldn't have met his fiance or something. Like there's all sorts of other stuff that went on in his life that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't taken exactly that course. So always nice to see an indie baller make it and an undrafted guy. You topped my 32nd round drafty with a undrafted guy. Yeah, the, the Gary South Shore Railcats, they, they signed a couple of stompers, much to my and Sam's slight Dismay. Back in 2015, they got promoted to that level. That was how low the Stompers were. The. At the Railcats, that was, that was a big step up from the Pacific Association. But yeah, happy for Dugan. Darnell, great name. First in big league history. I mean, there have been multiple, multiple surname Dugans, but not a first name Dugan.

B (100:50)

Not a first name Dugan.

A (100:52)

Yeah. And that, that is, that's his name. All right. He's Dugan Tate Darnell. So Rockies have the lowest fan graphs were from a bullpen, which is not a shock, I guess. But but they could use some help from Dugan.

B (101:05)

Yeah, Dugan.

A (101:06)

Well, I think we fulfilled the assignment. We chose a couple roughly 28 year old Rockies and Marlins rookie relievers. So that's how we drew it up with Meet a Major Leaguer. That's what this segment is all about. It's a segment for the Sickos. And now you know Josh Simpson and Dugan Darnell. And that'll do it for today and for this week. Thanks as always for listening. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com effectivelywild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some perks, as have the following five listeners, Michael Zarbab, Lawrence McDaniel, Mark Wagner, Dexter Mull, and Jake Schultz. Thanks to all of you, Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, personalized messages, discounts on merch and ad, free Fancraft memberships, and so much more. Check out all the offerings@patreon.com effectivelywild if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, your comments, your intro and outro themes to podcastamgraphs.com we're still adding themes to our rotation as they arrive. You can join our free Facebook group@facebook.com group effectivelywild. You can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple podcasts and Spotify and YouTube Music and elsewhere. There's also an Effectively Wild subreddit you can join and post on, or just lurk on and read at R Effectivelywild. Finally, you can check the show notes at fangraphs or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we cited today. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We hope you have a wonderful weekend and we will be back to talk to you next week.

B (102:53)

How can you not be pedantic?

A (102:57)

A stat blast will keep you distracted.

B (103:01)

It's a long slog to death, but they're sure to make you smile.

A (103:08)

This is effective and wild. This is is effectively wild.

B (103:16)

This is effectively wow.