Effectively Wild Episode 2380: Clinching Chaos

Date: September 26, 2025
Hosts: Meg Rowley (FanGraphs), Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer)

Overview

This episode dives into the statistical and emotional aftermath of the Seattle Mariners clinching the AL West, the AL MVP debate between Cal Raleigh and Aaron Judge, fascinating feats by baseball’s top sluggers, the fading era of 200-inning “workhorse” pitchers, and several listener questions covering quirky baseball hypotheticals, recent trends, and managerial scrutiny. The hosts balance deep analysis with their usual dry wit and relatable fandom, offering both technical insights and heartwarming baseball moments.

Mariners Clinch the AL West: Emotions and Reflections

[00:32 – 09:18]

• Celebrating the Clinch:

  • Meg revels in the Mariners clinching the AL West, experiencing a rare fan moment of seeing her team do it themselves rather than backing in (“…it feels legitimately very cool to have your favorite team do it themselves… That was Houston's business. For once, it's about the Mariners. And that feels so nice." – Meg, 02:05).
  • The euphoria of clinching at home and seeing familiar faces like Dave Cameron in the celebration.

• Meg’s MVP Take:

  • Meg clarifies she does not have a vote for AL MVP but acknowledges Aaron Judge’s historic season and Cal Raleigh’s remarkable contributions as a catcher. She values both, tempers homerism, and expresses awe at both stars.

• On Fandom and Critique:

  • Meg describes her Mariners fandom as a rare opportunity to be seriously excited: “No more of this wild card bullshit. Let's be in a different era of Mariners baseball.” (08:22).

The AL MVP Debate – Judge vs. Raleigh

[09:18 – 21:40]

• Celebrate, Don’t Debate:

  • Ben bemoans the binary nature of award debates: “It's weird that we force ourselves into this binary mindset... Can we not just agree that they're both great?” (10:38).
  • He downplays the true importance of the MVP debate—reminding listeners it’s only 30 voters and just their opinions.

• Fan Tribalism and Metrics:

  • Meg and Ben analyze why these debates turn bitter: Yankees fans’ confidence, Mariners fans’ defensiveness, and how advanced stats like WAR or WARP become hobbyhorses for the argument (Meg, 15:30).
  • They dissect how depending on your preferred WAR metric, the MVP race looks totally different.

• The True Value of Star Power:

  • Both agree: individual historic seasons make an otherwise “mid” (mediocre) season feel special and elevate the enjoyment of following baseball.

“These Are the Good Old Days”: The State of Baseball

[21:40 – 26:01]

• Baseball’s Cultural Moment:

  • Meg reflects on persistent anxieties about MLB’s health but stresses that, quality-control issues aside, baseball now features extraordinary talent: “These are the guys we get to watch right now… to borrow a word from Cal Raleigh—cool, man.” (24:10).
  • Ben quotes an old Buck Showalter commercial: “These are the best 750 players in the world. The game’s being played better than it ever has.”

• Enjoying Exceptionalism:

  • Both urge listeners not to let complaints about rules or mid-level teams distract from enjoying historic performances.

On Baseball’s End-of-Season Chaos: Spoilers, Surprises & Serendipity

[26:01 – 36:35]

• Players Raising the Bar:
  • Ben marvels at how Cal Raleigh and Judge kept up parallel, historic home run feats.
  • Discussion of continued competitive chaos: mutual eliminations (Giants/Cardinals), division races turning on a dime, and the unexpected joy of finding a “$20 in your winter coat” (Meg, 35:29).

Listener Questions & Stathead Segments

(Timestamps Provided for Section Starts and Key Quotes)

1. The Decline of 200-Inning Pitchers

[39:06 – 46:35]

• Only Logan Webb and Garrett Crochet surpassed 200 innings so far, with possibly Tarik Skubal joining ("...the 200-inning guy is almost extinct." – Ben, 41:53).

2. Sticky Stuff Checks: Still Useful or Just a Ritual?

[66:11 – 72:14]

• Both agree the mid-inning sticky-stuff checks are no longer noteworthy but remain a useful deterrent (“It's not extra time… I haven't felt like it was still purposeful.” – Ben, 67:49).

3. Challenging Ball/Strike Calls In Your Own Disfavor

[53:12 – 61:33]

• Discussion on whether a player would ever challenge a call that was already in their favor. Conclusion: Unlikely, but interesting edge cases exist, and the challenge system may adapt if they arise (“Now I kind of hope it does at least one time.” – Meg, 61:10).

4. Are Pitcher Injuries to Blame for the “Midness” of 2025?

[61:33 – 66:11]

• Injuries can level the playing field but are likely not the main reason so many “mid” teams exist.

5. How Many Pitches to Identify a Star?

[72:14 – 78:29]

• Carlos Rodón claims he knew Garrett Crochet was special after three pitches.
  • Ben: “I don't think it's unreasonable to say you could tell someone is special in three pitches...But to see if they're actually reliable and consistent...you need to see more.”

6. Why So Much Focus on Managers?

[78:30 – 88:44]

• Do baseball fans blame managers more than in other sports?
  • Both say: Not really—fans of all sports find reasons to blame coaching staff, but baseball’s pace and discrete decision points amplify this tendency.

7. Double Plays: Downward Trend?

[88:47 – 92:55]

• Papelbon's claim is correct—double plays are down, but mainly due to increased strikeouts, more balls in the air, and fewer men on base, not defensive positioning.

8. Teammates: Most in One Year?

[94:31 – 100:46]

• Blue Jays rookie Trysten “Tre” Yasavage played for five levels this year, totaling 210 teammates, but not a record (record is 253). It reflects modern player turnover as much as Yasavage’s meteoric rise.

Notable Quotes

“It feels legitimately very cool to have your favorite team do it themselves.”
— Meg Rowley [02:20]

“It's weird that we force ourselves into this binary mindset... Can we not just agree that they're both great?”
— Ben Lindbergh [10:38]

“No more of this wild card bullshit. Let's be in a different era of Mariners baseball.”
— Meg Rowley [08:22]

“The 200-inning guy is almost extinct.”
— Ben Lindbergh [41:53]

“These are the good old days.”
— Buck Showalter, quoted by Meg [24:07]

Other Memorable Moments

• Champagne Cautions:

  • Meg’s panic watching Cal Raleigh try to open a celebratory champagne with his bare hands, worried about injuring “those hands are precious, sir.” [29:55]

• Spoiler Games:

  • Amused reflection on teams mutually eliminating each other in back-to-back games: “Are the Giants a day after being eliminated themselves, are they playing spoiler when they eliminate the Cardinals?” — Ben [31:46]

• Neighborhood Cake and Finding $20:

  • Meg analogizes unexpected clinch excitement to finding a $20 in a winter coat—“How nice!” [36:35]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:32] – Mariners clinch discussion & emotions
• [04:30] – Home run slugger comparison (Judge, Raleigh, etc.)
• [08:22] – Meg’s “different era” for Mariners fandom
• [10:38] – Ben critiques the MVP debate mentality
• [21:40] – Significance of individual performances this season
• [29:55] – Mariners’ postgame celebration antics
• [39:06] – 200-inning pitcher discussion
• [46:35] – Listener Q&A section begins
• [53:12] – Hypotheticals about the challenge system
• [61:33] – Are pitcher injuries to blame for mid teams?
• [66:11] – Sticky stuff checks and broadcast habits
• [72:14] – How many pitches does it take to spot a star?
• [78:30] – Why fans blame managers: cross-sport comparison
• [88:47] – The declining double play rate
• [94:31] – Most teammates in a season: Yasavage’s odyssey

Closing Thoughts

The hosts encourage listeners to enjoy historic performances amidst the game’s “midness” and odds-driven chaos, reflect on the rare joys of fandom fulfilled, and remain grounded while still debating the fun and minutiae of baseball’s current landscape.

For links/stats and further details, see the show notes at FanGraphs.