Effectively Wild Episode 2383: How to Call a Collapse

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2383: How to Call a Collapse

Date: October 4, 2025
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer), Michael Bauman (FanGraphs)
Guest: Jason Benetti (Detroit Tigers TV Announcer)

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode navigates the chaos and emotional whiplash of MLB’s 2025 playoff wild card round, with a spotlight on the Detroit Tigers’ historic, near-catastrophic collapse—only for them to rally and advance. The hosts also break down the nature of calling such collapses as a broadcaster, preview Division Series matchups, and consider the psychology of team fandom when family ties and rivalries are involved. Special guest Jason Benetti lends an insider’s view of broadcasting through a rollercoaster season with the Tigers.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Banter: Wild Lyrics and Games

• Michael Bauman steps in for Meg Rowley, opens with a raunchy, baseball-podcast-inspired lyric riff, parodying Taylor Swift’s song referencing Travis Kelce and podcasting culture.
• Ben gamely endures, joking:

  “I’m just gonna have to bleep this whole section.” (05:02)

• They then play “College Baseball Player or Car Model?” where Ben pitches a perfect game—correctly identifying all as Bauman lobs obscure global car makes and college players’ names.

Notable Quote:
Bauman after a string of lewd lyric parodies:

"He makes all the D’s before seem timid and mild when he bends me over and goes effectively wild." (05:02)

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2. Wild Card Recap: Emotional Collapses, Quiet Series, and Umpiring Outrage

Playoff Results and Vibes

• Thursday saw three elimination games: Guardians vs. Tigers, Padres vs. Cubs, Red Sox vs. Yankees.
• The Tigers, Cubs, and Yankees advanced—mostly expected outcomes given matchups.

Tigers-Guardians Series: The Whiplash of Collapse and Reprieve

• The Tigers suffered a historic collapse, squandering a 15.5-game lead—yet rebounded immediately, knocking out Cleveland in the wild card series.
• Hosts ponder: Does this erase the collapse’s sting? Do Guardians fans feel proud, robbed, or both?
• Bauman observes:

  “The Tigers don’t really have to wallow in the indignity… they vanquished the team that unseated them and advanced anyway.” (19:28)

  “Even if losing… you got a really exciting stretch run and a playoff series out of this. If that hadn’t happened, the conversation would be the Emmanuel Clase gambling scandal, the Shane Bieber trade, the impending trade of Steven Kwan. At least… ambivalence is so much better than what it looked like this team was going to be at like three weeks ago.” (18:54)

Padres vs. Cubs: The Bullpen Paradox & Ump Show

• San Diego’s vaunted bullpen is rendered moot; you need to have a lead to deploy it.

  “It does require that you take the lead at some point. That’s… the Achilles heel of the great bullpen.” (22:42)

• Cubs’ defense lauded as “the best up the middle defense in baseball.” (25:58)
• A blown strike call against Xander Bogaerts (9th inning) becomes a flashpoint—hosts relive the rage:

  “It was low. It was obviously low. It was visually low in the moment.” (26:31)

• They discuss whether MLB benefits from October umpiring controversies to sell the coming ABS challenge system.

Red Sox vs. Yankees: Cam Schlittler Arrives

• Yankees rookie Cam Schlittler’s dominant, record-setting start is the talk of the round.
• Ben:

  "He set the all time record for strikeouts in a winner-take-all game… eight-plus scoreless innings, 12-plus K’s, no walks... instantly a true Yankee and a franchise legend." (35:19)

• A mini-debate erupts over Derek Jeter’s legendary “dive into the stands” defensive play vs. Ryan McMahon’s just-attempted, more hazardous catch.

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3. Fan Identity When the Family Joins the Rival

• Discussion of Cam Schlittler’s Massachusetts/Red Sox roots, now pitching for the Yankees, with family support.
• Debate: Can one really flip fan loyalty for a close relative?

  "If I'd grown up a hardcore Red Sox fan and my brother was pitching for the Yankees… I don't think I could bring myself to do better than, well, hope he gets a respectable no decision." (57:36)

• Ben points out that when your child is drafted, developed, and supported by an organization, genuine affection toward that team often grows—financial, emotional, and practical realities trumping childhood tribalism.

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4. Division Series Preview: Drama, Matchups, and Narrative Stakes

Most Exciting Series Rankings

• #1: Phillies vs. Dodgers
  • “This feels like a Yankees-Braves World Series from when we were kids.” (51:23)
  • Star power, best rotations, overdue direct October matchup.
• #2: Yankees vs. Blue Jays
  • Both teams have something to prove, high star quotient.
  • Blue Jays as perpetual “pick to click” who haven’t won a single playoff game in years.
  • The “battle to finally put postseason struggles behind them.”
• #3: Brewers vs. Cubs
  • First-ever playoff meeting between two NL Central mainstays—local rivalry, laundry vs. star power, “familiarity breeds contempt.”
• #4: Tigers vs. Mariners
  • Lower general excitement, but Bauman finds the local angle (Skubal is a Seattle alum) and the humor in the idea of a team recovering from the “biggest collapse ever” to go on a run.

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5. Special Segment: Interview with Jason Benetti (Detroit Tigers TV Voice)

(Starts ~76:30)

Journey Through the Collapse

• Benetti describes the emotional ride:

  “You can’t spell Detroit Tigers Wild Card without TLDR… that’s the whole season right now.” (77:45)

• He points to the clubhouse “chasing bad money… the feeling that you’ve lost something you had that you should still have. A feeling of loss is the toughest thing for humans to cope with.” (79:39)
• On the point when it became real:

  “When Cleveland first showed up… it was six and a half [games]. If they win all of the games, they win the division.” (80:52)

Broadcaster’s Role in a Collapse

• Assessing the line between honesty and optimism:

  “If I sit there and tell people the Tigers are going to make the playoffs… I am not telling the truth.” (96:10)

• Benetti relied on gallows humor and, at times, ceremonial laughs (like rain delay Qs), but stresses you “earn” the right to do that by “nailing the serious moments.” (101:36)

Player Insights & Clubhouse Vibes

• Gives scouting notes for new-to-Tigers viewers; lauds Dylan Dingler’s defense and throwing arm, the “closer 1 and 2” tandem of Will Vest and Kyle Finnegan, and notes Riley Greene’s approach and AJ Hinch’s managerial mind games.

Notable Moment – John Brebbia’s Reliever Question

• Benetti shares clubhouse favorite Brebbia’s memorably ridiculous hypothetical:

  “The year is 2038… all of the relievers survived and have been thriving since the outbreak. AJ, you have a beloved pet owl named Owl Capone… which relievers are you taking [on the rescue mission] and why?” (94:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Bauman’s Lyric Double Entendre:

  “He makes all the D’s before seem timid and mild when he bends me over and goes effectively wild.” (05:02)

• Ben after the Car/Player Game:

  “I feel euphoric. Exuberant… I had a Cam Schlittler game!” (11:42)

• Ben, on Guardians Fans Processing Collapse:

  “Do you warm yourself by the fire of the memory of having unseated the Tigers… or does that feel like kind of a paper—not Tiger—a paper division title…?” (17:21)

• Bauman, on Cubs Defense:

  “It’s best up the middle defense in baseball. I say I think, I don’t think that’s especially controversial.” (25:58)

• Bauman, venting umpire rage:

  “The thing that umpires do that drives me the most nuts… it just seems like such ump show stuff.” (27:49)

• Ben, on the Padres’ playoff era:

  “So much effort, so much expense… and they have not been fully rewarded for that. It’s ultimately deflating.” (33:06)

• Benetti, on being a broadcaster in a collapse:

  “I became the eyes of Dr. T. J. Eckleburg in the Great Gatsby… just watching all of it and kind of silently judging.” (98:33)

• Ben, on hometown loyalty:

  “When your child is drafted, developed, and supported by [a rival], genuine affection toward that team often grows—financial, emotional, and practical realities trumping childhood tribalism.” (62:03 paraphrased)

• Benetti, on the Tigers’ story:

  “We still don’t know what this pocket of Tigers’ time is going to end up being… who lives, who dies, who tells your story?” (83:05)

• Bauman, on Brewers/Cubs rivalry:

  “There’s like, very much a familiarity breeds contempt, you know, Pawnee-Eagleton type thing going on here.” (68:00)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–06:15: Introductions, musical parody, podcast humor
• 06:37–11:42: College Baseball Player or Car Model game
• 12:38–19:28: Playoff wild card round, Tigers-Guardians collapse and psychology
• 22:01–34:11: Padres-Cubs series analysis, umpiring blowup, Cubs defense, the futility of great bullpens in elimination
• 35:19–44:00: Yankees-Red Sox, Schlittler’s feat, defensive gems
• 46:58–55:30: Division Series previews, stakes for each team
• 57:36–66:01: The family/rivalry loyalty debate (Red Sox family roots, your child joins the Yankees)
• 76:36–106:10: Jason Benetti interview—broadcaster’s perspective on collapse, bullpen woes, clubhouse persona, and prepping for the division series
• 106:30–End: Patreon credits, closing banter

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Flow, Language, and Tone

The episode is alternately irreverent (opening lyrics segment), deeply analytical (breakdowns of playoff games and bullpen construction), and emotionally reflective (Benetti’s perspective). The hosts maintain their signature wry, thoughtful style—mixing pop culture tangents, sharp humor, and nerdy baseball stats. Guest Jason Benetti brings empathy, candor, and wit to discussing the Tigers’ near-collapse and resultant playoff run.

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Takeaway

Effectively Wild 2383 balances humor and heavy analysis in dissecting MLB’s wild card shakeup and psychological aftermath of a historic collapse that is, perhaps, already “undone.” Through sharp game analysis, fan psychology, and behind-the-booth perspective, the episode prepares listeners for the emotional and narrative stakes ahead in the Division Series—reminding us how quickly fortunes and feelings can shift in baseball’s postseason crucible.

Transcript

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, it's moments like these that make you ask, how can you not be horny about baseball? Every take hot and hotter. Entwining and a butting. Watch him climb big mountain.

[Jason Benetti]

Nothing's about nothing.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Every stitch wet with sweat breaking balls Back door, me on Effectively Wild out. Can you not be horny? When it comes to podcasts, how can you not be horny? Hello, and welcome to episode 2383 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer, joined now not by Meg Riley of fangraphs, who is on the mend, but not yet mended, and filling in for her in multiple professional capacities this week, including on this episode of Effectively Wild, it's Michael Bauman of Fan Grafts. Hello, Michael.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, I've been spending this week being the emergency backup goalie from an editorial standpoint because Meg has been sick and Matt has been. He spent all week on a train back and forth to Yankee Stadium.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So, man, that's. That's a lot of power to hand to you. The keys to WordPress.

[Michael Bauman]

The first thing I told Matt was I was drunk with power.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But, yeah, they don't give me that kind of edit access at fangraphs. I can edit my own podcast posts and that's it. They don't trust me with editing anyone else. Nor should they. I'm not actually on the fangraph staff. You are. But still, that is a lot of responsibility, a lot of harm you could do.

[Michael Bauman]

It was very much like the first episode or first season episode of Star Trek the Next Generation where Captain Picard and Commander Riker get trapped on the surface and Geordi is left alone in command of the Enterprise and everybody's like, what the hell's going on?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Season one was rough at times. Yeah. If you had one minute in the pool for how long it would take one of us to reference Star Trek. Congrats. You win. So we are going to talk about the playoffs. Go figure. Today we'll talk a little bit about the series that are concluded and the series that are about to begin. And I will be joined a little later by the great Jason Benetti, voice of the Tigers, TV voice who, unfortunately, that voice has been silenced for October because he's not doing baseball and we are all the poorer for it. But he is doing baseball on this episode of Effectively Wild. So we'll talk about the Tigers near death experience and how they can bounce back from that and what it was like to call a historic collapse and just their completely predictable, normal path to the AL division series. I assume that you have a prelude to the actual baseball banter.

[Michael Bauman]

I've got two preludes, Ben.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I figured before I asked you to come on, I had to weigh whether I wanted to be embarrassed about not knowing the names of college baseball players. And ultimately, I decided you were worth it.

[Michael Bauman]

I think this is not going to be as tough a game as it usually is.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, now you've put more pressure on me.

[Michael Bauman]

Well, you know, I was just thinking, the music festival I referenced last time I was on here just came and went a couple weeks ago. And I remember how mad you were when you found out that, yes, you were responsible for knowing the name of the guitarist for TV on the Radio.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, you texted me from that festival to send me a photo of him to remind me of my loss.

[Michael Bauman]

So if you thought you were pissed off, then just wait, because I don't know if you saw this, but the American singer songwriter Taylor Swift has released a new record.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Haven't had a chance to give it a spin yet.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah. So it contains a song about the physiological and sexual prowess of her fiance, the football player Travis Kelce. Heard of him and relevant to this podcast as well. Much as I'd love to talk about that, ordinarily, it's relevant to this podcast because she references the name of Travis's podcast in the song about his penis. The curse on me was broken by your magic wand Seems to be, seems to be that you and me we make our own luck New heights of manhood I ain't got a knock on wood. Ben, as one of the most experienced and venerable sports podcasters in the entire industry, have you ever had somebody write an ode to your sexual prowess using the the name of your podcast and lyrics?

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, I don't think Jesse has ever said that I'm effectively wild in the bedroom.

[Michael Bauman]

Well, Jesse hasn't, but as far as anyone, you're about to have your world rocked, my friend. Okay, so I didn't. I didn't write an entire song about this because this only came out this morning. Even I don't work that fast. But I do have lines. And I'll admit that reading these back, they give more of a Beastie Boys vibe than a Taylor Swift vibe. But. Okay, so here's. He makes all the D s before seem timid and mild when he bends me over and goes effectively wild.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, my goodness. I'm just gonna have to bleep this whole section.

[Michael Bauman]

Did you notice the double entendre there? Where I said bends me over.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wow. You put some thought into this. I do think you should deliver it as if you were a Beastie Boy. That might actually enhance.

[Michael Bauman]

I need Adrock behind me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes.

[Michael Bauman]

Effectively wild.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I'm surprised that no one has one of our listener themes. No one has done a beast.

[Michael Bauman]

Someone will.

[Ben Lindbergh]

This is it now. It'll happen. Okay.

[Michael Bauman]

All right. Two, My man's effectively wild. He's got me screaming with a purpose. I get on top. He does a stat blast on my cervix.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wow. Okay. This pod should come with a parental warning.

[Michael Bauman]

And number three. Oh. Part of the reason that I wanted to do this was, one, to see how mortified I could make you on your own show. And also to see how much of this Shane was going to blow. Like, if we could get like an.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Entire segment, I think that's probably 15 seconds. Just leave it all up to the imagination. Poor Jason Benetti agreed to come on this episode before he had any idea what would be preceding him.

[Michael Bauman]

Such as, I finally found an effective love. He's known to be wild and he's good with the glove with his fingers and his teeth. He's tearing off my garters. Saying, I'd like to thank a couple of our Patreon supporters.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wow. Getting all hot and bothered here.

[Michael Bauman]

I'm sweating. Ben.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Is that it? You have more for me?

[Michael Bauman]

No, that's it. That's, that's all the music I have for you. But we do have today's game. College baseball player or.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Make and model of car.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, well, this is, could not be any more out of my depth. I, I, it's arguable which I know less about cars or college baseball players. Yeah, I've, I've heard of cars, though. I have heard of some, you know, makes and models just from being in them at times, seeing them around, being subjected to advertising. So there's more exposure to car names than there is to college based public.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah. With congestion charge and stuff. Have you even seen a car in the past six months?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, I live north of the congestion zone. Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

So I'll warn you, not all of these cars are currently in production.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay.

[Michael Bauman]

And not all of them have ever been sold in the United States, so you'll have to. But like, if I said Ford Proctor.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That would be not a car. This is an actual baseball player. Yeah. Ford Proctor is, I've heard of Ford Proctor because, yes, he's not only a college baseball player, but a, He's a major league baseball player. Yes, that helps.

[Michael Bauman]

Briefly. Okay. Number one, Dacia Logan.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Can you spell that or is that against the rules? D, A, C, I, A, D, A, C, I, A. Well, I have never heard of that car brand, if in fact it is one. Then again, I've never really heard of any name that applied to a person. So I guess I'd be almost more surprised if that were a person's name than a car, because I was thinking of, like, Datsun as a car brand that you might pull out here. And this is not that, but it's close enough. I guess.

[Michael Bauman]

I had to go even more obscure than Datsun. I figured you would know about Datsun.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I don't know about this one, but I guess I'll go with car.

[Michael Bauman]

You are correct. The Dacia Logan is a Romanian compact car sold elsewhere under the Renault and Nissan badges.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wow. You didn't have to go this hard. Well, that applies to this entire intro, certainly the lyrics portion of it, but, wow, I didn't even realize that I was doing that.

[Michael Bauman]

There was a discarded verse to that song that included the line, you didn't have to go this hard.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, but the point is that you could have used probably among the more famous car names, and you still might have stumped me because, again, I don't drive. But I appreciate your going the extra mile here. All right, who or what is next?

[Michael Bauman]

Number two, Tucker Stockman. Tucker Stockman.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, that's gotta be a human being, right? I guess I'll go with college baseball player.

[Michael Bauman]

That is correct. Ben. Tucker Stockman is a catcher at the University of Southern Mississippi. I thought maybe I could trip you up because Tucker was in fact the name of a car company, as you probably remember being a film buff from the Francis Ford Coppola Classic. Tucker, a man in his dream. The biopic of Preston Tucker, the automaker, not the former University of Florida outfielder.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Could have gotten that wrong if I had remembered that, but I didn't. So fortunately. So fortunately, I got it right. Okay. 2, 0. This is. If this were a best of three wild card rounds, I would be sailing right through.

[Michael Bauman]

All right, number three, Proton Perdana. Proton Perdana.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That's gotta be a car.

[Michael Bauman]

That is, in fact, a car. That is a Malaysian family sedan. It's a re badged Honda Accord.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. Yeah. Just couldn't really imagine a person named Proton. I'm sure there is one someone somewhere in the world, but presumably not in college baseball.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, this one. Cameron Flukey. Cameron Fluke.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, that would be a weird name for a car. Both the Cameron part, but especially the Fluky Part. I mean, I guess I don't even know what country of origin or language you're working with here.

[Michael Bauman]

It's got all sorts of weird names.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Asian markets in Australia that could mean something else entirely in Romania, but. But I guess I'll go with college baseball player.

[Michael Bauman]

He's a pitcher. He's actually a fairly well known pitcher. A pretty decent draft prospect from Coastal Carolina. He opposed Kate Anderson in the in game one of the College World Series final last year. He's a native of Egg Harbor Township, New Jersey.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Of course. How could I not know that? Well, I look forward to him making it and probably having a much lower era than his fip.

[Michael Bauman]

Yes. Big dude. Six foot six. Weighs about 110 pounds.

[Ben Lindbergh]

All right.

[Jason Benetti]

And the last one.

[Michael Bauman]

Like I said, you're doing really well with this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Can I pitch a perfect game?

[Michael Bauman]

Holden. Toronto. Holden. Toronto.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Toronto. See with Holden you had me thinking college baseball player. But then Toronto makes me think car. I don't want to blow it. I guess I'll go with car.

[Michael Bauman]

Ben, you have pitched a perfect game.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Holden.

[Michael Bauman]

Holden was GM's Australian brand. This was an Australian mid sized sedan of the 1970s.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wow. I feel euphoric. Exuberant.

[Michael Bauman]

Car knowledge.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Man. Who knew I had it? You are such a connoisseur of vehicles of all kinds really. Just wheeled vehicles.

[Michael Bauman]

I'm going to put that on my LinkedIn. Ben.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. That should be your bio on some sort of social media connoisseur of vehicles. Vehicles in the air, vehicles by sea, by. By land, by air. Whatever it is. If you can drive it, ride in it, fly in it. You know it.

[Michael Bauman]

The Ides of March song too. Love that song.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Well, this is, this is good. This will tide me over the next time I, I get shut out or really ashamed myself with my performance. I can console myself with the memory of the time that I shut you out. That I, I pitched a perfect game. I, I had a Cam Schlitler game in the college baseball or today. So that's exciting. Oh, I don't know. 10:12 minutes into the episode we can.

[Michael Bauman]

I don't have anything prepped for this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's going to be short, mercifully. Talk about baseball.

[Michael Bauman]

I spent all my time writing song lyrics.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Do you know who's playing in the Division series? Do you know who was playing in the wild card round cycles? That's all.

[Michael Bauman]

I mean, I know, I know who that the, the Dodgers are playing the Phillies.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. That's pretty important. Yeah. Okay. So. So we had an eventful day on Thursday. We had three games. We had three elimination games. It was, I believe, the first time in history that there were three elimination games on the same day.

[Michael Bauman]

I don't think that's true. I think 19, 1981. I think I saw.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, I thought I saw that fun fact somewhere, but maybe I was misled.

[Michael Bauman]

I saw. We saw contradictory fun facts.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I guess so. Well, we'll have to settle this while we speak somehow, but the Guardians, Padres and Red Sox bit the dust. The Tigers, Cubs and Yankees advanced. I guess we can say that the better teams won. Probably the favorites, to the degree that there even are favorites in a best of three series where most of the teams are pretty evenly matched, but nothing super surprising about the outcomes here, I guess the Yankees were the first team. This is another fun fact I think I saw. They were the first team to win a best of three wild card series after losing game one, which is not as impressive as it sounds, perhaps, cuz there haven't been that many of them. It's not quite coming back to win a best of seven.

[Michael Bauman]

I think there were more, more game threes this year than in the first three seasons of this format put together.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, so that was good, I guess. I enjoyed that we didn't have sweeps for one thing. I feel uncomfortable calling a a 2 nothing win a sweep cuz it just, it doesn't even. I think we've had that debate before on this podcast, of course, but something feels unnatural about calling it a sweep when it's not even the length of a regular season series, even though technically it's correct. I suppose. So I guess we can briefly talk a bit about each of these and I'll talk to Jason later about the Tigers more so we don't have to dwell on Tiger's Guardians, which is probably for the best because as a spectator experience, it wasn't the best. But I am as I'll get into a bit with Jason, I am just fascinated by all the dynamics surrounding this emotional whiplash of suffering a historic collapse, immediately rebounding from it, and for all intents and purposes, just erasing it. I mean, it happened. I don't mean to take credit away from the Guardians. They deserve credit for having completed that comeback. But then ultimately, what does it actually amount to? I don't know how Guardians fans feel right now. Do they feel proud? Do they feel robbed? Is this all some sort of sick joke? I don't know if the joke is on the Tigers or the Guardians, like if you're the Guardians or their fans are you less deflated because, hey, we're playing with house money here. It's amazing that we even managed to be in this series. Or are you more deflated because of the path you took to get there and this whole comeback you engineered and then it's. The slate is reset right away and it's as if it never happened in some sense.

[Jason Benetti]

I don't know.

[Michael Bauman]

I have a hard time putting myself in the head of a Guardians fan. So I don't, you know, I concede. I don't want to speak for. For these people who are out there.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

But I would feel like I was playing with house money. Like, this is not something I've really experienced in quite this way in a baseball context, but I've rooted for teams that punched above their weight for a hot month, made the playoffs and got rocked in the first round. I think there's an element of happy to be there and, you know, the fact that it. It came. The loss came against a division rival who. You would just overhaul this. I would expect there to be some disappointment that they didn't finish the job, but, yes, you know, if I were a Guardians fan, I would kind of be. I would kind of have my eyes open about how good this team actually was and be satisfied that, you know, they made it competitive, they won a game, they put on a good show. No, actually, no, they didn't put on a good show.

[Ben Lindbergh]

My.

[Michael Bauman]

My overwhelming takeaway from this series was how stark the difference is between a close playoff series and a good playoff series.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Because like Red Sox, Yankees, I think they had three good games and the Guardians and Tigers had three close games.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes.

[Michael Bauman]

And there's a big difference.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, it's true. Yeah. No, it's. Even if you're a Guardians fans who got caught up in the fervor of the comeback, I think probably they were not in denial about how good that team was. Now you don't have to be good to win in the playoffs or win a World Series, even. So if you're in there, you can allow yourself to hope, you can dare to dream, but I guess maybe you feel a little less robbed just because. Not that you didn't deserve to be there, but it was such a close call to get in and the team was, you know, negative run differential and probably a bit over its head. And I'm sure Guardians fans are sick of hearing that because it's been kind of a common refrain over the past few seasons. But. Yeah. I don't know how you think of this over the long, cold Winter, do you warm yourself by the fire of the memory of having unseated the Tigers and actually won the AL Central? Or, or does that feel like kind of a paper, Not Tiger, a paper division title just because you just get bounced right back into the series that you were playing a few days before you won that division title and then your division rival immediately advances and leaves you behind and I just, I don't really know what to make of that. It almost feels like this should be against the rules somehow that like, I was kind of excited by the fact that you had the interdivision matchups in the wild card round, but it, it also does kind of feel like when you have a hard fought division battle like that and then ultimately there no consequences to it because you just end up playing each other anyway and then.

[Michael Bauman]

It is kind of very rocky too.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's a good comp. So, I don't know. I, I'm happy to hear how Guardians fans are feeling. If you can muster the will to write in and, and let us know about it.

[Michael Bauman]

I'll add this too. Like, even if losing, like the conversation is about, oh, what a great comeback. And yeah, even if it's like, this team sucks and I can't believe they made the playoffs, you did get a really exciting stretch run and a playoff series out of this. And if that hadn't happened, the conversation around this team would be Emmanuel cla's gambling scandal, the Shane Bieber trade, the impending trade of Steven Kwan, and like, what a downer that would have been. At least like, if you're ambivalent about this series, ambivalence is so much better than what it looked like this team was going to be at like three weeks ago.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, well, when Meg and I were ranking the collapses a little while ago, we noted that the, the Tigers still kind of had an out. They could just forget about it or make people forget about it by just winning this series and then it would be almost undone in terms of the practical effects. But I, I don't think that the stain of that collapse sticks to the Tigers now the same way. But maybe that doesn't mean that the triumph of the title does not stick to the Guardians. Like, maybe it's not kind of an equal and opposite thing. It's like how strikeouts can be great for pitchers, but not that bad for batters all the time. It's kind of like that. It's like, you know, the Tigers don't really have to wallow in the indignity of, of having blown that lead because now they vanquished the team that unseated them and advanced anyway. But the Guardians still did do that. Everyone count them out. And they forced their way in. And so I think they should still get to take pride in that. I don't know if they get to brag about it to Tigers fans specifically or whether Tigers fans would even be bothered by that now, but I think they should generally be able to brag about it.

[Michael Bauman]

I think that's right. And it makes me really grateful that there weren't multiple wild card spots back in 2007 when the Mets collapsed because, man, I've. I'm really enjoying that we're about to enter decade number three of Phillies fans holding that over the Mets.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, Megan, I did declare like a one episode moratorium at least on making fun of the Mets after that loss just for the sake of this.

[Michael Bauman]

I didn't agree to that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, I think there was a Phillies fan carve out for it. So you can do it. And also a little time has passed, so get used to it, move on. You've had a whole week or whatever it is. The only other notable thing I think about this series really, other than, you know, scubal shoving as usual, is, is that the reliever familiarity effect kind of went mainstream in this series if it wasn't already. Like, like Passon was tweeting about the reliever of familiarity effect. I don't know whether that actually came into play or whether that's why in the end the Tigers actually managed to score some runs off that guardian's bullpen. And it could be fatigue as much as familiarity because, you know, those guys were worked pretty hard down the stretch, but they had faced them an awful lot lately. Like there were guys who pitched in all the games in the series and then faced them last week too. And so it did seem like if there was ever going to be an overexposure, then this would be the situation.

[Michael Bauman]

This was what, their ninth game in the span of three weeks? Like, I'm pretty sure both of them are like, I'm just sick of seeing these guys win or lose. Like I'm glad to look at somebody else's stupid face.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, condolences, Cleveland and Detroit. We will talk about the Tigers more in just a moment. Padres Cubs. So this got close and contentious at the end, mostly because of a bad call. But I was struck by the fact that the Padres, they built this fancy pants bullpen and one of the frustrating things about I picked them to win.

[Michael Bauman]

The series like entirely on the strength of the fancy pants bullpen.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right, and the fancy pants bullpen can be a big weapon, particularly in October. But it does require that you take the lead at some point. That's kind of. That's the Achilles heel of the great bullpen, is that you don't actually get to deploy it to protect the lead unless you have a lead in the first place. And so it becomes almost extraneous like. Like this luxury good if you can't get ahead. And I mean, you know, they did pitch these guys like Morihone pitched in all three games and Miller and Suarez pitched in two. And there's some value in keeping it close, of course, but if you can't score enough or get good enough starting pitching to put the bullpen in position to protect leads, then ultimately it doesn't do you that much good. Which I guess is the. The downfall of, like, stacking this super pen, which they did.

[Michael Bauman]

And the fancy, by the way, the fancy pants bullpen threw 17 and a third innings and allowed one run or allowed two runs.

[Ben Lindbergh]

As good as advertised.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, it worked.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if they had been able to continue, then, then maybe the story of the postseason. And yeah, it was totally worth trading our top prospect for Mason Miller, and maybe it still will be. But. But a lot of that is. Is kind of predicated on actually getting to use those guys in this situation. And you can't count on that. Not that you can always count on using other aspects of your roster, I guess. Like, you know, starting pitchers can only pitch so many times, and there's a batting order that dictates when certain hitters can hit. But the bullpen, it feels in particular. It's just. It's down to the vagaries of, like, sequencing, basically. It's like if you. You could score the same number of runs in the game, but if you score them early and are able to. To put those pitchers in and protect that lead, then maybe you win one. Whereas if you get those runs late, then maybe it's too late.

[Michael Bauman]

This is another thing I wrote about. Well, two other things I wrote about in my series preview. One, that the Cubs defense is like a. Was like a major event. We saw that with. It was something like. Like the Padres are not holistically as a team, but the Cubs were something like 40 runs better over the course of the season. I said, that's going to show up in individual clutch defense plays, which we saw a couple of yesterday. And the other thing is, this is a really shallow lineup for San Diego that, like the Cubs for all the injury concerns and, you know, PCA going cold at the end of the season, you know, maybe concerns about Matt Shaw at the end of the lineup. There's not a hole in that lineup. There are multiple holes in that San Diego lineup. And even on top of that, like Tatisa Machado went over seven.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Yesterday. Like, that's something you take for granted in any scenario where the Padres win. And so, you know, the bullpen worked, the holes in the lineup happened. I don't think they were insurmountable. But like the stars need to hit and the stars didn't hit. And if, like that's just table stakes and if you can't match that, you can't, you know, you're not going to make it very far.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yep. And really that Cubs defense, it reminds me of 2016. It's like it's 2016 again, where that team, you just could not get anything by them. I'm not saying it's quite that good, but it's so far, at least up the middle. They just do not really allow anything at all.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, it's best. I think it's the best up the middle defense in baseball. I say I think, I don't think that's especially controversial.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But yeah. And of course, the big story, one of the big stories from this game was one bad call on Xander Bogarts in the ninth inning when the Padres rallied but were perhaps stymied by this one call. It was home plate umpire D.J. rayburn and Bogarts got called. It was. It was low. It was obviously low. It was visually low in the moment.

[Michael Bauman]

Apparently looked worse than it was because of where the K zone was, but it was still.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It was still bad. Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

So it's not. I don't know. I lost my mind over this when it happened. And I think it's not the one bad call. It's that it was two consecutive borderline calls where Bogarts thought it was ball four and the umpire did the hot shot college I'm show thing of wait for the runner, wait for the batter to go to first and then call him back twice in a row. And that was just like. It's the thing that umpires do that drives me the most nuts. Like it doesn't matter to me. It almost doesn't matter to me that, that the 3:1 pitch actually did get a little bit of the COR. Just seems like such ump. Show stuff. And it's makes me, as you can, as you can tell, just incoherent with rage. And I'M not going to say, like, it ends up looking like it matters probably more than it did because the next two batters reached. And like, what happens if it's base is loaded and nobody out? Like, there's no guarantee those batters reach if Bogarts is already on first. Like, we were into a whole other multiverse. But it, it, yeah, it just like one of the worst and ugliest ball strike calls that I can remember, particularly in this day and age where, like, we're not just giving Tom Glavin 7 inches off the plate just because, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right. Yeah. There was an era where nobody would have batted an eye at a call like this, but now it's an outrage because we're used to more accurate and conforming and consistent strike zones. And the shame of it is that, that it actually was a pretty well called game on the whole, I think it wasn't as if he was blowing calls left and right the whole game. The scorecard suggests that it was pretty accurate. It was just a really bad one. And, and that final, that strikeout call, it also, it seemed to evince some uncertainty to me because it was kind of a delayed call and I don't know why exactly, but it seemed like he was waiting a second, like processing and almost looks like he was trying.

[Michael Bauman]

To show Bogarts up whether he was or not. That's what it looked like.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. I don't know if it was that or if it was just like being a little torn about which call to make and then making a delayed call and making the wrong call. It almost seemed like maybe he knew that he had made a mistake immediately, but I don't know. We can't even see these people's faces. They have masks on. So we're just inferring based on body language and everything. But no, it's bad. And of course, you did have a lot of Padres fans saying that, yes, we would have had bases loaded, no outs. And it's been drilled into me since I was a child listening to Michael K on the radio at that point where he would harp on about the fallacy of the predetermined outcome, which is how he puts it. And yeah, I don't think he invented the concept, but just, you know, like.

[Michael Bauman]

It would be pretty cool if he did it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Would that be quite a claim to fame if he had? But no, the next two batters get hit by pitches that probably does not happen if there's already a runner on base. Like, you're going to be more careful. You're probably not going to throw that pitch there and maybe those guys are going to swing or try to drive in the runner. Who knows what's going to happen. But, you know, it's. It's a sliding doors cascade of events and we'll never know. But obviously would have been better to get a guy on with no outs than to have nobody on with one out. So that is very frustrating to lose like that. And I saw there was some video shot by a fan who caught. There was kind of an altercation as the umps were going down into the dugout and into the tunnel. And I don't know who inflamed this or who provoked whom, but. But the players were really kind of like jawing at the umpires as they were leaving the field and kind of getting up in their faces and, you know, people being held back and everything. I wonder how often that happens, where the debate rages on even after it's out of public view, even after the game is over. I'm sure, given the stakes of this game, obviously it's, it's going to smart more than it is in a typical game.

[Michael Bauman]

This is where, this is where I'm disappointed. You don't follow other sports because there was a famous, there was a famous Champions League semifinal between Chelsea and Barcelona, I think, in 2009, and the ref blew all manner of calls and, and Chelsea's players are just basically like, stop playing and yelled at him for the last couple minutes of the game. And they're, you know, they're going after him like this and the way off the tunnel. And Didier Drogba, the Chelsea striker, like, turns around and faces a face, like finds a TV camera. And Shane, it's good that you already have the bleep button out after the first part of this podcast, but he turns to the camera and says, it's a disgrace, like right into the camera. It's one of my favorite moments in soccer history. So, like, if we were going to do this, we needed like, you, Darvish, to go full Didier Drogba or something on the way into the tunnel.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And of course, you go back to baseball prehistory and there were all kinds of rendezvous and fisticuffs and that could happen away from the field as well. But yeah, I love fighting, guys.

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. So anyway, that's frustrating. I do wonder on some level whether MLB wants there to be a bit of ball strike controversy this month just to like, pave the path even more smoothly for ABS and for the challenge system, because. Because if they have a few howlers this month. You never really want it to be decisive in this way, but at least now there's some recourse. Or. Or at least now maybe it's more frustrating. Cause if you're a Padres fan, you're thinking, well, if this had just happened next season instead, then we could have challenged it. And it's also arbitrary. But if you're mlb, you're thinking, well, this is a bad look for baseball currently, but it's also a great advertisement for 2026. You know, maybe you want a few howlers just to. To point out how much better and new and exciting things are going to be next season.

[Michael Bauman]

I like that. Just full tinfoil hat. I will say so. Like, as much as I'm on Bogart's side with this. And also there was like the weird auto strike that they tried to put on them. And in game one, he had an odd week. Like, I think Padres fans are right to be aggrieved. I think there's a limit to the amount of aggrieved you can be when your team was in this position because they didn't score in the first eight innings of the game.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

And like this was not, you know, they were not facing tar school or worse. It turns out, Cam Schlitler, like, they didn't score off some pretty gettable guys. And so it's hard to blame the umpires completely.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. When the dust settles on this Padres baseball era, I don't know what we will make of it. It's just so much effort, so much expense, not just of dollars, but of AJ Preller. Just mental energy to assemble this roster and build some fun star studded, competitive, contending teams that just have not gone all that deep in the postseason. Like, ultimately, it's got to feel unfulfilling, I think, to this point. I'm not saying it's over. They could be back, but they just constantly push their chips in and they have not been fully rewarded for that. And they're not the only team like that in these playoffs. You could kind of lump the Blue Jays in there with just like not having had the postseason success that the regular season excitement seemed to portend. But I don't know, this whole era of Padres baseball, it's just hard to know what to make of it. It's better than before, I guess, for the most part, but it's ultimately deflating. It's a little bit of a letdown.

[Michael Bauman]

I would read the hell out of the John Carreyrou book about A.J. preller.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Running the Padres.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Okay, let's talk about Mr. Schlitler as we carefully pronounce that. So this was the Cam Schlitler game and will forever be known as it. I guess unless there are many more great Cam Schlitler games. But so many fun facts that were spawned by this performance. What? First pitcher in postseason history with eight plus scoreless innings and 12 plus strikeouts and no walks. And he set the all time record for strikeouts in a winner take all game. And he was the third youngest pitcher with 12 plus strikeouts in a postseason game and he was the youngest pitcher to have at least 10 strikeouts and no walks in a playoff game since don Newcomb in 1949. Just various, you know, permutations of that. Third player age 24 or younger to pitch eight scoreless innings in a playoff game without allowing a walk. However you want to say it, he was dominant and nasty and is immediately a true Yankee and a franchise legend.

[Michael Bauman]

Just a monster game. Like I like, I want to be cynical and jaded and too, too cool for school about everything. But like it's. If you're not marking out over that and you're not a Red Sox fan then, or even if you are a Red Sox fan apparently because Cam Schlitler converted, his entire family were led to believe.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We will talk about that. Yeah, but, but I, I followed him with some interest this season, both the, the minor league stats and then the name and all the rest of it. And he's been, you know, kind of inconsistent sometimes he walks too many guys, not that you would know it from this performance.

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And he doesn't even have like a change up or a splitter, you know, that's like his off season project. So imagine when he actually has that to pair with his, I don't know, three different fastballs. But that's pretty much all he needed. He was just so nasty. And I was really looking forward to the rookies of October, the first year pitchers who were slated to start potentially. And I highlighted this in a piece before the series that it could come down to Cam Schlitler versus Connolly early. But even I did not expect him to just step up like this. Like this was just, he just looked so in control, like barely broke a sweat, barely seemed to be phased by the moment whatsoever. Like just looked like he had done this before. It was pretty impressive. I was, you know, not at all surprised, but just still sort of disappointed that he did not get to pitch the ninth. Like I knew there was no chance, but it was just felt like the sheriff's in town. I mean, he's the son of a police chief, I guess, but just, you know, let him finish what he started. This is like a big boy game, definitely.

[Michael Bauman]

And, like, it's not. I didn't go into this thinking it was outside the realm of possibility that Cam Schlit would shove and the Yankees are just crushing this game. But in my mind, shoving was like, twice through the order.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

And he's, you know, he strikes out 10 and five innings and also walks three or four guys. Like, this was just unbelievable. It's, you know, I think Jay Jaffe called it one of the best postseason pitching performances he's ever seen. And Jay knows about good postseason pitching performances. So, like, that's a pretty hefty compliment and I think entirely deserved. It's just incredible. And to do that in an elimination game. Yankees, Red Sox, like, if the Yankees do anything in the next round, like, this guy's going to turn into a cult hero.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, definitely. He has the name, he has the stature, and now he has the performance. And this was not the only Dynasty Yankees style performance because we had Ryan McMahon channeling Derek Jeter and toppling head over heels.

[Michael Bauman]

So much better. So much better than the Jeter catch.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Thank you. I feel like I'm a Jeter catch truther or something because I've never been as impressed by it as I'm supposed to be. And maybe that's true of just Derek Jeter as a whole. And I say that as someone who.

[Michael Bauman]

Was the classic Jeter play because it. It looked harder than it was.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's how I feel now. I've watched it a million times, and I understand how momentum works, because there are people who will say that it was kind of like a showboat play, like, he didn't have to die, you know, because he takes a couple steps after he catches the ball and. And then he just sort of Superman's into the stands now. He was going at top speed and, you know, the. It was like a low fence. And I'm not saying that he could have easily avoided going into the stands.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, I don't think he was, like, selling it or anything. Like. Yeah, he actually did get beat up pretty.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Like, bruises. He had wounds, he bled. Yes. So, you know, it was an impressive play, but it's. It's often lumped together with the flip. And I just don't find it to be nearly as impressive as the flip. Like, it's. It's impressive in the sense that he was willing to. To put his Life on the line and you know, just not spare body and limb and everything, but, well, just the stakes of the moment. First of all, it was like was. It was like July or something. It was, you know, midsummer season game. Yeah. And like, like, you know, it was Yankees Red Sox at the height of the Yankees Red Sox rivalry, but they had like a seven and a half game lead over the Red Sox at the time. No, I guess you could say that that makes it even more impressive and Jittarian that he was willing to go all out like that and it wasn't even a postseason game. Like maybe, you know, anyone will show the lack of self preservation that Ryan McMahon did in a. A must win wild card game and Jeter would do it midsummer. But that does still detract from the moment a little bit. I don't know. And I feel like maybe other people just would have made that catch without having to do what he did. Just because now that was one of the ways that he did have range. I think at least that was my impression at the time, that he could like go back on balls in that direction and it was more just, you know, not being able to get to anything up the middle. Look, it was a good play. It was an impressive play, but I, I think the way that it burnished Jeter's legend was like just a bit overblown relative to even other Jeter accomplishments. And this Ryan McMahon play made me more afraid for his.

[Michael Bauman]

I want to say it sounds like you were working through some stuff from your childhood.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Maybe so. Maybe so. I don't know. You'd think that I'd. I'd be more in the Jeter cult than I am, but I just, I never was. I always found him to be a bit. Bit bland. And I was just much more of a Bernie guy and other personalities on that team. And, you know, I guess it was partly just because of the.

[Michael Bauman]

What a. What a damning thing is so bland. I preferred Bernie Williams instead.

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, see, Bernie, okay, he wasn't flashy and fiery, but he actually was absolute.

[Michael Bauman]

Ken Griffey Jr. Of A. Bernie Williams, the. The classical guitarist.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, he was a gentle soul, which in a way, that's the real punk rock in baseball. To be Bernie Williams in a baseball clubhouse. I think that that takes some cojones to be yourself, be kind of the quiet, gentle guy who just strums his guitar and you're getting bullied by cretins like Mel hall and there are other people who are throwing stuff and cursing, and now he's just Placid Bernie Williams, who's gonna be just as good and just as clutch as anyone else. But. But, you know, it's going to do it in that distinctive Bernie Williams way. Anyway. They were both great players, but. But Ryan McMahon's catch here, that made me afraid for. For his safety more than the Jeter catcher. More. More than most instances I've seen of a player going into the stands, because that was, like, a total topple, head over heels, where I was worried at first that, like, he's got to have a brain injury or something. Like, he's just.

[Michael Bauman]

It was gymnastic. Like. Like. Just full. Like, stiff as a board plank. There's a. Do you watch Taskmaster?

[Ben Lindbergh]

No.

[Michael Bauman]

Okay. I feel like you'd like Taskmaster. If anybody is listening to this. Who watches Taskmaster? When Rob Beckett went over the fence in the task where you have to get soup out of a microwave, that's what Ryan McMahon looked like to me on that. On that play. And, like, thank God there was somebody there to catch him also, like, I didn't know. He just bounced right back up. I didn't know Ryan McMahon was that springy.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah. And good for, I guess, for the Red Sox for just realizing the gravity of that moment and how dangerous that appeared to be and actually offering some support, because guys don't always do that.

[Michael Bauman]

In a good sportsmanship, not to let your opponent maim himself.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I agree. I would jump over a fence to. To preserve some soup if that's what happened on Taskmaster, because I'm. I'm a big soup fan, so that's important.

[Michael Bauman]

Anyway, I'm not going to derail. The. Soup is not food.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That's ridiculous. Okay. Soup is. I feel like this is a Bill Simmons take. That soup was the perfect food.

[Michael Bauman]

No, Bill Simmons's take was, soup is the ultimate food.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, I don't know if it's the ultimate food, but it is a food that I enjoy very much.

[Michael Bauman]

Want to know what people thought about that take. Ask how long that show lasts on hbo.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Hey, you don't work for the rigger anymore. I still do. Don't get me in trouble here, but super is great. It goes down easy. It doesn't have to be a solid to be food. What's wrong? It's.

[Michael Bauman]

It goes down easy. Just. Just like Derek Jeter.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Exactly. Ah. This could also be an effectively wild lyric if we're not careful here. All right, so that's a wrap on the Wild Card round, and I'm kind of. I'm. I'm Glad we got to see it. But I'm glad it's, it's done also because I think that the division series is my favorite of the playoff rounds. I think it's the sweet spot, the postseason baseball spectating experience. Because the wild card is so chaotic, it's so frantic. It's 12 hour days and I guess the beginning of the DS can be like that too. But there's, there's a little more room to breathe just because it's the best of five and some of the teams will get weeded out and then maybe you get some game fives and there aren't as many games on that day because once you get to the later rounds you have some disconcerting off days. You have days without baseball at all. And that's sort of sad. And in this round you still have enough baseball, but not too much baseball because the wild card round, sometimes it's, it's too much. It's like a fire hose of baseball. And the ds, I don't know, it's. It's just baseball soup.

[Michael Bauman]

Don't stop it there. There needs to be enough baseball that like, like there's slightly too much where if there's a dud game, it's not like the only thing you're looking forward to. Yes, but now we're like, we're getting the real heavyweights in there. Like this Phillies Dodgers series has the potential to be.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Just an absolute all timer.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

I am scared to the point of worrying about my own professionalism in the, in the press box by it, by this series. But so like you're getting that, but you're also, you know, you're still getting four, you know, four games a day in a couple cases and. Yeah, but it's not, you know, you're not just waking, it feels like waking up and going right into Guardians Tigers. Yeah, I had this, I had an insane thought earlier this week that like the noon game, like nowhere looks more noon than Cleveland.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, I don't know if I do.

[Michael Bauman]

I don't know if it's that just like that, that Midwestern like winter sun that just feel, it just feels so.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Geographically new and it's just the, the midd of the country, the middle of the day. I mean I guess Cleveland's on eastern time. I guess the whole. Is it the Rust Belt? Is it Midwest? That could derail this episode too. But, but I, I guess I know what you feel like.

[Michael Bauman]

Cleveland's non controversially the Midwest.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Like I don't think there's Any part of the Midwest that's non controversial. That's what I've discovered in previous forays.

[Michael Bauman]

Into arguments like Toronto is the Midwest, that Pittsburgh is the Midwest. Like, please.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Anyway, well, it's true that I did declare Ohio the epicenter of the baseball world, barely, I don't know, a week ago. And now that is very far from the truth, unfortunately for those teams. But they did briefly have the spotlight on them. So we've got these four series here and maybe we can just discuss which one or which ones we're most excited for. You've already given away your number one ranking and I think it's a defensible ranking.

[Michael Bauman]

I mean, I think it's right. I think it's bad too. Yeah, like taking nothing away from. I think every one of these series could be dynamite. But like, I think these are the two, two teams or the two best teams left in the bracket.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I do too. Yeah. And, and it, it also feels like these are the best eight teams in baseball this year, which may or may not be a feature. I mean, sometimes it's good to have the random kind of chaotic team, but it feels like these are the teams that kind of earned it the most for whatever. That's.

[Michael Bauman]

I would say this is the best collection of eight teams possible given the league divide. I think I would take the pot. Yeah, I'd take the Padres probably over.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The Tigers, but yeah, if you could have unequal number of playoff representatives per team, then maybe, but, but yes. So this was the best we could do, I guess the closest we could come. And I agree that Phillies Dodgers is the most entertaining just because of, well, how good the teams are and how fairly evenly matched they are and how star studded the rosters are. It's kind of obvious and Normie and you know, this is the mainstream take. Really. What, what's the, the only argument against it, I guess is that we've seen so much of these teams in recent October's, but we haven't seen them play each other.

[Michael Bauman]

They haven't played each other since 2009. Like if you're, if you're sick of these two teams going up against each other, like, sorry, like, like congratulations for vividly remembering the late 1970s. Like. Yeah, well, I did dig this up though. The Dodgers, or, sorry, the Phillies are the only National League team the Dodgers have faced in the playoffs during Clayton Kershaw's career and failed to beat.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh yeah, that's a good note. Good nugget.

[Michael Bauman]

So he's out for revenge in his last Chance.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, right. Finally, he will get that monkey off for revenge against Beat the Phillies, Jason.

[Michael Bauman]

Worth and Jeff Jenkins.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah, It's. It feels overdue. It feels weird that they haven't faced off because they've been such postseason staples lately, but they have, have not. The, the. The path has not gone through each other. And so it does feel like the logical conclusion of all of these postseason appearances would be that they'd have to go head to head and we get the two best starting rotations going against each other. I mean, Shohei Ohtani vs Christopher Sanchez kicking things off. It just doesn't get much better than that. So I'm pretty psyched for this series. And you get, you get to see Shohei hit, you get to see Schwaber hit, you get to see the two big lefty bomber sluggers like, and I think there's something to having turnover in the playoff field each year. You want some new blood, but I think you also do want, you want the heavyweights. Yeah, yeah. You want some continuity. You want just the familiar recurring characters whose arcs you have tracked through their ups and downs. And you could say, well, the Dodgers, they got over the hump. They, they won the World Series last year with no. 2020 asterisks at all. And the Phillies, they're still searching for it, and they're both getting up there in years. And who many. Who knows how many more times they'll both be back here? I mean, it's the Dodgers, so probably plenty. But. But like, you never know like, how.

[Michael Bauman]

Far down the list of, of important players in the Series before you get to, like, Bryce Harper and Freddie Freeman. Like. Yeah, either one of those guys would headline a couple of the.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

And you know, you mentioned John Duran, probably like one of the biggest names that moved at the deadline. Like, this is what they brought him in for. It's just this feels very, I'm going to say, like Yankees, Blue Jays. Feels very like classic baseball, but this is, this is the marquee event for me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then there's the Roki Sasaki factor. This is true. This is not what they brought him in for, but this is now the role he is filling. And he's looked so good that if he can be that guy for them, obviously huge bullpen issues behind him, depending on what other starters are working in relief. Yeah, I. There's just no shortage of interesting matchups here. You know, you have all the Phillies lefty aces going against the Dodgers lefty sluggers. That seems like something that's going to come into play here. So, yeah, I think it's, it's an obvious pick.

[Michael Bauman]

This feels, this feels like a Yankees Braves World Series from when we were kids.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, it does. And for some people, that'll probably be too, you know, obvious, I guess.

[Michael Bauman]

Tough.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. It's not the posting.

[Michael Bauman]

The postseason is for the casuals, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It is, it's true. Yeah, it's, it's, it's for, it's for us also. But it's some, you know, sometimes our inner casual comes out and we just want to see the stars facing off against each other. That's kind of a big reason of why we watch here now. The next. I, I have a hard time, I guess, picking the next most exciting series. But I, I think I'll go with. I, I think I'll go with Yankees Blue Jays.

[Michael Bauman]

Yes, that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, I think that's an easy number two for me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I don't know if it's easy because there's another division star power, I.

[Michael Bauman]

Think, and particularly the way the Yankees won that series. I'm so much more excited about the Yankees than I would have been this time last week. Like, not just like the Cam Schlitler of it all matters a little bit or matters a lot, but like, you know how well free pitched Aaron Judge is, is box office, no matter where, you know, where he is in the, in the postseason. But, but the added wrinkle of like the Red Sox tested his throwing arm, is he 100%, what can you get out of him? And then the Blue Jays having the, the star power, you know, Vladimir Guerrero, I guess we'll see what they get out of Boba Shet. But like, that's a really deep lineup. That's a rotation without, you know, maybe an absolute top end, number one starting pitcher, but a lot of depth. I picked the, I picked the Blue Jays to win the World Series. I'm pretty sure in our not for.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The first time prob.

[Michael Bauman]

I was trying really hard not to put like my prediction eggs in the Phillies basket again. But so I, I tried to pick something that was a little off the beaten path and then I lost my NL pennant winner in the first round.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I vaguely remember one year when the entire baseball staff of the ringer, which amounts to three or four people, was picking the Blue Jays to win. And then was that one of the years when they didn't even make the playoffs? Or was that one of the years when they didn't win a playoff game? That doesn't really narrow it down, but I think the history. Yeah, the. The history with this team over the past several seasons. Just the high expectations and the big characters and personalities and then either missing the playoffs or just getting goose egged and run right out of town. It just. They gotta win a game with this group. And so I'm pulling for them to do that in that sense just so they can kind of, you know, put that behind them at least. And this is another case. I mean, it's just like Guardians, Tigers, where you fight over 162 games and then right back into the fray, just facing off against this boss that you thought you had dispatched. So ultimately, the season series, I guess the bragging rights will be decided by that playoff round. More so than the regular season in this instance, too.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, it feels. One thing that I'll sort of generalize about this, the Blue Jays are kind of like the Phillies in that they have something to prove. Like, they need to like just making it to the playoffs with this group of players, particularly with Boba Shadow and a couple other guys hitting free agency this year. Like, it's. I'm not going to act like it's their last chance or anything, but like this core has been together for a while, like you said, and they haven't done it. Anything.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Coming into the year, it seemed like it might be their last chance when Vlad was still a free agent and, you know, then they signed him and then they found some other guys and who knows, maybe it's not the end of the road, but it's still.

[Michael Bauman]

Say the Phillies have gone backwards since that surprise run of the World Series. You know, the. The brewers are in a perpetual case of like, just win around. You know, the same about the Mariners, who have just floated now. This looks like the best team they put together under Jerry Depot and they've suddenly become like the sexy pick to win the World Series despite never having been there in Franchi. Like, there's a lot of teams with. With a lot at stake here.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And so it. It does feel, I guess, like some of the thunder was stolen because you had the AL east matchup in the wild card round with the greater historical rivalry and baggage. And so, you know, New York, Toronto is not quite.

[Michael Bauman]

Said we were going to talk about this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, we completely forgot to talk about. Yeah. Kim Schlitler's family and their circle affiliations. Yes, let's. So. So Cam Schlitler controversially claimed. Let's see. I have the. The quote here. So he comes from Walpole. He. He comes from Massachusetts. He grew up in a Red Sox fan family. He pitched at Northeastern, et cetera. So he said before Wednesday's game, while his family may have grown up Red Sox fans, that's no longer the case now that he's in pinstripes. Quote, quote, Obviously, growing up, I take pride in being from Boston. When it came to my career, this is where I want to be. They're full Yankee guys now. Referring to his family, they don't wear as much around Boston, you know, just because when they're here, they're really prideful about it. So he's saying they're not, they're not wearing the pinstripes around Boston, but they're full Yankee guys now.

[Michael Bauman]

I mean, we live in a golden age of lying and in America. So I, I know your partisan credentials are not what they, they once were. And you know, I, I'm just like thinking about, like, if my son grew up to play for the Dallas Cowboys. I think there is a situation where I would root for the Cowboys to beat the Eagles in a playoff game. If my son was the quarterback or something. There are no circumstances under which I would wear Dallas Cowboys gear out in public.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

And I, I think, and I think if my, I don't know, just going back to like the Cam Schlittler thing. Like, if I'd grown up a hardcore Red Sox fan and my brother was pitching for the Yankees in, in an elimination game, like, I don't think I could bring myself to do better than, well, hope he gets a respectable no decision in a, you know, in a close, low scoring game.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Like, just imagine, like being a die hard Red Sox fan, particularly as intense as that rivalry is, like, it's not just, it's not just, oh, my, my son plays for the team other than the one he grew up rooting for. Like, that happens all the time. And you know, the parents adjust. But like, this is probably the only rivalry in baseball where it matters to this extent. And it's not just him, it's Ben Rice, too. Grew up in.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Michael Bauman]

In Massachusetts and went to college in New England. And I just can't imagine, like, I could imagine loving my son that much. I couldn't imagine loving like a cousin.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Or like a childhood best friend.

[Ben Lindbergh]

A question of how much of your family do you truly care about? Like, how many, how much of your extended family do you have feelings for? Enough to trump your lifelong fan loyalty? Because it's fun. There have been a lot of controversies surrounding this rivalry with, with, with players employed by these teams. Because remember the The Hunter Dobbins thing earlier this season, where his. His father, like, claimed to have played for the Yankees and then, like, had a grudge against them, and then that came out to not have been true. And then that was weird also. But Dobbins was. Was like a, you know, I'm dyed in the wool Red Sox guy now, and Schlitler's the opposite. So it would have been. Been hard for me to imagine this as a kid. This would have been inconceivable. It would have been anathema to imagine sort of changing my pinstripes. Right. And I. I think I've told the story about how I went to Boston once when I was a kid, and my parents thought that it would be a nice thing to take me to Fenway park because I was a big baseball fan, and I was mortified to be there. I felt like a complete traitor, like I was behind enemy lines, and that I was also just betraying my own team, just being there because the Yankees weren't playing them. I was just at a Red Sox game. And of course, now I think Fenway is a beautiful cathedral of baseball, and I. I appreciate its aesthetics and its history and all of that, but at the time, I could not. I could not wait to get out of there because I felt like my. My skin was burning or something, just being there. And so to imagine actually having to root for the team, of course, it's. It's very difficult. And there was a quote in this same article, the CBS article from Schlitler's high school baseball coach, Chris Costello, who says, cam is a kid.

[Michael Bauman]

What a Red Sox fan name that is.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, Cam is a kid you root for, no matter what hat he's wearing. Quote, I'm still a Red Sox fan, but, you know, personal relationships will always overtake any fandom, so to speak. So I'll be rooting for Cam. I'll be rooting for Cam until Cam is not in the game.

[Michael Bauman]

Team. That is it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then I'll be a Red Sox fan again.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a very honest, reasonable position. I think that's probably where I would, you know, where I would come down, you know, root for him to. To strike out 12 guys over eight scoreless innings, and then root for the Red Sox to make it all back up in the night.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah, right. But. But if you're a parent, then it's. It's harder to look at your son as sort of in isolation because, like, he's living and dying with the team's Fortunes.

[Michael Bauman]

And you want him to keep going. Like you want your son to win the World Series. Yes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You want him to be happy, you want him to succeed on this stage. And so I don't know that you can sort of separate those things. If you're, that if it's immediate family, I think you will become a convert. You just will. Because like, how could you not? I mean, first of all, you know, I don't know exactly what their financial background and everything I mentioned his dad's a police chief. I don't know if they're like, like rolling in dough here or whatever, but you know, your kids becomes a big league baseball player, that's transformative financially for many families. And so if you're suddenly like your kids paying off your mortgage or something with Yankees dollars, you know, are you.

[Michael Bauman]

Saying like, I won't, I'm not taking that blood money?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I don't think so. Right. You're probably paying off your mortgage and you're getting the nice retirement home or whatever. And at the that point, once you are deeply indebted financially to that team, probably the feelings start to soften a little bit, I'd imagine.

[Michael Bauman]

I don't know. I, I think, I don't think you need to be that cynical about it. I think you just like have unconditional love for your child.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, yes.

[Michael Bauman]

And, and that trumps, you know, whatever, whatever petty.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Michael Bauman]

Differences you, you know, you have with the, the baseball team. But beyond that, like, like I said, like I've, you know, my, my brother played baseball and you know, of, if he had gone to the major leagues and he had ended up in the Atlanta Braves, I don't know, I don't.

[Jason Benetti]

Know if I could have done that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And I think it's different also if it's a homegrown guy. Like if you're, if your kid was drafted by the team as Cam Schlitler.

[Michael Bauman]

Was, and you've got a long time to, to make your peace with that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, you can come to terms with it. And also, yeah, you might have warmer feelings because they took a chance on your son. You know, like Cam Schlitler, he owes the Yankees, right. For, I mean, you know, they owe him because he just, he just delivered. It's a, it's a two way street here. But like, you know, they entrusted him with the ball and they promoted him and he wasn't a top prospect and he was a seventh round draftee. So it's a little bit different if you're like Paul Skeens or something. And, you know, it's just luck of the draw. You happen to end up with this team instead of that team. But any team. Team would have been thrilled to have you. If you're Cam Schlitler, it's a little bit different because, you know, not every team wants you or wants you that way, and maybe you end up in some other organization and they don't do as good a job of developing you as a pitcher, and maybe you don't make it to the majors, or maybe you're not as good. So you. You really, I think, do have to start to feel some fondness and some warm, fuzzy feelings. They're not even, like, against your will. Well, I've. I'm forced to root for this team because of my kids. But, yeah, you. You know, you're gonna feel.

[Michael Bauman]

You feel like they take. You know, they took care of your. Of your boy. Like.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. If you're drafted. I mean, you know, he was drafted out of college, but I guess especially if. If you're a younger signee or draft adult. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they're housing you and, like, teaching you, you know, life skills and stuff. Yeah, they're. It's almost like they. They're raising you in some way. They're like, you know, your guardians away from home. So, yeah, I think, naturally, you would start to develop some feelings there. I will say this. I. I believe Cam Schlitler's mother is Christine, and she has a Twitter account which is locked, but you can see her bio. I believe this is true. If this is all fake news, I apologize, but. But I saw her bio. I saw someone screenshot her bio, and you can never really trust a screenshot because that could be manipulated. But the Google cash version of it still has her bio preserved, and it says, wife, mom, go pats Red Sox, and now heart emoji Yankees. Okay. But currently her. Her active bio on Twitter now says, wife, mom, go Yankees and Patriots. It doesn't say anything about the Red Sox. So I think she may have scrubbed her Red Sox fan affiliation from her Twitter bio, either because Cam was playing the Yankees or because this started to generate some debate about whether this could actually be true. And. And, you know, sending mixed messages on the Twitter bio. Once Cam says that you're. And you're a true Yankees fan, having.

[Michael Bauman]

Go, Yankees and Patriots on your Twitter, buy that alone.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

I guess in this political moment. Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Anyway, I think. Think. Yeah. You would find that it's possible. And even if you work in baseball, I mean, There are, you know, people who are not nearly as financially indebted to a team. Just if you're in a front office or something. There are all sorts of people who, like, become, you know, they root for that team, even if they grew up rooting for their rival or something. Because. Because once it becomes your livelihood and your future, as opposed to just your fandom. Not that fandom's not important, but there are some things that. That trumpet. So I believe it. But, yes, Cam Schlitler's extended family, I would imagine, at most they're doing the. The Chris Costello while he's in there, I hope he does well sort of thing.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, I'm. I'm not going to do the. Try to do an accent.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. All right. And I'll just put a word in for. For Brewers Cubs, because this is another one that I cannot believe has not happened. The brewers have never played the Cubs in the play. This is like when the Mets played the Phillies last year, right? And. And they had never faced each other in the playoffs. And it was so strange because it. It felt like that should have happened before maybe many times. The brewers and Cubs have never faced each other in the playoffs. And I know that, like, you know, Cubs Cardinals will always be kind of the one true rivalry for the Cubs, but, you know, this is. This is a real rivalry. Like, these teams have been at each other's throats in the Central lately. So. So there's some stakes here. And plus, it's like the Craig Council Series and it's the George Web Burgers Series, and it's just like the, you know, there's a lot of bragging rights at. At stake here and, and two good teams. And also, like, I've been comping the Blue Jays to the brewers all season long and sort of saying that maybe the. The brewers are like a better Blue Jays. Not by that much. Maybe the Pooches are pretty good, too, but. But they are sort of a similar mold of team in some respects. So I'm pretty into this series too. I guess.

[Jason Benetti]

I'm.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I'm a little less excited by the personnel because there are just fewer Chicago Cubs who excite me than there are Dodgers or, or Phillies or maybe Yankees and Blue Jays for that matter, too. Maybe you could even say that about the Brewers. So there's a little less star power. But. But the matchup is pretty intriguing.

[Michael Bauman]

I'm not that bothered by the lack of star power. You know, I don't know if we're gonna get Kate Horton back for this series. I Don't know what?

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, I don't think so.

[Jason Benetti]

Okay.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, so, I mean, that's a, that's a bummer. Yeah, I, I think this is just all about the laundry and, you know, the brewers sort of feel like it. I don't know, they're like a mid table English soccer team that they sort of, they turn over the roster, but they have like a cohesive identity and a, you know, a reputation for, for, you know, being put together cleverly and playing in a certain way and, you know, we've seen the limits of that and can they transcend it? I think that this, you know, this lineup has a chance to. A better chance to do that than some of the previous incarnations, if only because I'm not that scared of this Cubs pitching staff. Like, I think it's fine, but it's not like a. I don't, I don't think it's going to go out and win them the World Series Series or anything. So. Also, like, underrated local. I don't want to use the word animosity in relation to anybody living in Wisconsin because I don't think they're capable of it. But like, these cities are only an hour and change apart. Like, I think there's a little bit of the, the little brother thing between the, with Milwaukee and Chicago and I think there is like, even though you think of, of the Cubs as, as having, you know, direct cross town rivals, there's like very much a familiarity breeds contempt, you know, Pawnee, Eagleton type of thing going on here. So, yeah, so, yeah, I think this is a. I'm, I'm pretty, pretty excited for this series too.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And the other way that the Blue Jays are like the brewers is, is that they're both trying to put this postseason recent record behind them. The brewers have at least won postseason games, but they haven't won a postseason series since 2018. So they're sort of in the same boat there where they both have the reputation for kind of coming up empty once October rolls around. So that's some extra stakes. Just trying to put that behind them. And then finally that takes us to Tiger's Mariners, which I think is a clear fourth place finisher here when it comes to excitement. But I don't know, it's not like all of these series aren't exciting in some respects, but it just feels like.

[Michael Bauman]

There are elements I find exciting about this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, right. How could you not be excited about, I don't know, skull versus rally or whatever, but like, yeah, I just. Maybe it's because of all the intrigue with the Guardians and the Tigers that I, I feel sort of spent by that. When it comes to any other matchup with the Tigers, though, I do still think that it would be hilarious if the Tigers won the World Series this year. Just blow the 15 and a half game lead, be completely unfazed by that. Go all the way. There's part of me that is kind of hoping that that happens, but also part of me that wants Mariners fans to win for once.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah, it is not the same thing, but I was talking to somebody about. Do you remember the, the podcast we did where we had Andy McCullough on during the the Dodgers losing 16 out of 17.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Bauman]

Like that. They went to game seven of the World Series and a lot of people would argue they would have won it in an even playing field. So yeah, I think that the fact that the, you know, the Tigers tied their shoelaces together for the last month of the season means virtually nothing in terms of their ability to put it together this postseason. Also, there's the local angle with Dark Skubal, because do you know where he played college baseball?

[Ben Lindbergh]

If there were any baseball player who I would know played. But no, I don't remember Seattle University. Oh, right, of course. That's actually come up on the podcast, before I put it. Yeah, you're going to imagine with.

[Michael Bauman]

You're going to hear that this week, I suspect.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, probably. I have, like, yeah, I have. I just have a, a void when I learn where someone went to college. Mostly I never know. The information never enters my brain. But also when I do hear where someone attended college, I immediately banish that knowledge from my mind. So.

[Michael Bauman]

Well, I look forward to you learning that again when he pitches in a couple days.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I guess that will be a, a, a constant refrain, as was. We talked just the other day about the idea of athletes never having to buy a beer again in a, in a city. And whether that or, you know, buy a meal or whatever it is and whether that still applies in this era when athletes, like make so much money that they don't really need a free meal or for a drink and they might feel bad about accepting it. And also, like, a lot of them are wary of just, just going out in public because they'll just be caught on social media. So is that saying obsolete now? And we got an email from listener Sean, who said on a recent episode you talked about the phrase never have to buy a beer in that city again tonight after Cam Schlitler's Game 3 performance against the Red Sox. The broadcasters made that claim about him when you discussed it last week. It was about cal rally hitting 60 home runs and also like leading the Mariners to the the postseason. An incredible feat accomplished by so few. Now it's being used for a guy who had a great postseason start but has done it for the most storied franchise in the biggest city. Not to diminish his stellar performance, but there have been plenty of players who had gutsy performances in higher stakes games. Some who have been largely lost to history. For a comp, I think of Andy Chavez in a bigger moment. He made an all time great catch to keep the Mets World Series hopes alive. I'd wonder if he could walk into a New York bar today and have all his drinks packed, paid for or if he'd have to remind the locals of who he was.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And potentially produce video of what he did.

[Michael Bauman]

New York is a different thing, I think.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, there is a. Yeah, there's like a park factor to this. There's. Yes, it's like a city factor. It's different. If you are in a town that doesn't have that many sports teams or hasn't had that many great sports memories, then you can become a legend. If you're Cam Schlitler, you have a great game, but it's, it's one of many great games.

[Michael Bauman]

Yeah. What percentage of, of New York City bartenders are going to recognize Cam Schlitler on site? You know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right, that's, yeah, that's the other thing. It's just, you know, it's a melting pot and there's so many people and it's a baseball city to some extent, but there are two baseball teams and you know, what percentage of people are going to be able to pick you out of a lineup, especially if you're Cam Schlitler. But yeah, no, I do think that it applies more. I mean Andy Chavez, he actually, he should be getting his drinks comped for him if he wants to for some reason. But, but I don't know, there's a statute of limitations on it I guess as well. I mean the more time passes, the fewer people are going to remember you on site. So you might have to.

[Michael Bauman]

I think the, the move for the athlete by the way is accept the free meal and then leave an outrageous tip.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, I think that's a good idea too because then you make the person feel good for having accepted their, their benevolent gift. But then also you just left them a whole bunch of money. So yeah, that's a good call. All Right. Well, it's time to talk more Tigers with Jason Benetti. Always a pleasure to talk to you, even despite the way that you started this episode.

[Michael Bauman]

So thanks for saying like I I do. You know, we love Jason Benetti. He's a prince among men. Ask him what he wrote for you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, well, spoiler. I've already talked to him because that's the way.

[Michael Bauman]

Oh, come on.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But now people would be disappointed if I didn't ask him that after ask that. So I had to defend myself. But you did make Jason Benetti wait. Made all the people wait to hear from Jason Benetti while you trotted out your explicit make him wait.

[Michael Bauman]

You didn't make way longer podcast, but.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You made effectively while the listeners, they're accustomed to waiting. It's true. They're in this for the long haul. Did Richard Lovelady ever strike at Taylor Teagard? And who had more war? Jason Kendall or Russell Martin? What if Shohei Otani's dog was also a good lawyer? What would you do if Mike Truck just showed up in your foyer? Or is it foyer?

[Jason Benetti]

Find out on Effectively Wild. Find out on Effectively Wild. Find out on Effectively Wild.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Today. Well, the Detroit Tigers have made it to the alds. If you've been unconscious for the past month or so, nothing about that sound sentence would sound surprising. And if you're a Tigers fan, I kind of hope you have been unconscious because it would have made life a lot easier. However, I hope you are conscious now because the Tigers are about to play the Mariners in a best of five series. The only downside to the Tigers advancing is that Jason Benetti will not be calling their postseason games, or any postseason games for that matter. Which makes Effectively Wild the exclusive home for Jason Benetti baseball commentary this October. Unless, I guess, he does other interviews about baseball. I didn't think of that. You're allowed to. To be clear, regardless, we're happy to have him on, even non exclusively. And honestly, we wouldn't want to keep him to ourselves. So, Jason, welcome.

[Jason Benetti]

Currently, I am exclusive to Effectively Wild. So this is as. As it currently stands. I. I'm glad to be here and be exclusive of.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, anytime you want to call us up and talk Tigers or baseball, we're at your disposal. It's a standing invitation for you to blow off some baseball steam amid the football games that you'll be covering. And what a whirlwind this has been for you, for Tigers fans, for the Tigers themselves. You came on this show last September to talk about how the Tigers never lost a game and we were too nice to have you on this September to talk about how they never won one. But in your two seasons as the TV voice of this franchise, you've experienced basically everything that the sport has to offer. So I don't know where you go from here. Maybe you have a nice predictable middle of the road season next year. That sounds nice. But take me through just the emotional polar opposite extremes that you have experienced in the past two seasons.

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah, you can't spell Detroit Tigers wild card without tldr.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I gu.

[Jason Benetti]

Like it's, that's the whole season is TLDR right now. Like I, I don't really know what this is yet. And I think anybody who says they know what the Tigers are doesn't really know because they are a very good team when they're rolling. We saw it in the beginning just yesterday as we tape this in the finale against Cleveland. We know that when it's a fully constituted lineup, they can hit home runs for top 10 in the league purposes. And it's also like I, it is just bizarre to watch a team that felt like it couldn't lose look like it might not be able to win again. But, but you know, Thursday in Cleveland, at the end of the regular season, they needed something. They needed some sort of shift of the emotional tenor of the whole thing and they got it and they got a win that was very, very necessary. And part of it was Troy Melton and his sort of and behavior which obviously Troy gave up a couple of runs in game two of the wild card round. But I also, to be honest, like as much as they rode that wave last year, they felt like a team at the end of this season that was experiencing the most human of reactions and the toughest human reaction to get out of. It's the reason Las Vegas has as much success as it does. It's chasing bad money. It's the feeling that you've lost something that you had that you feel like you should still have. A feeling of loss is the toughest thing for humans to cope with. And I think that permeated the clubhouse. That 15 and a half game lead, I think that permeated the clubhouse and they think as a group they had to figure out how to cope.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Was there a specific lead where you started to think, oh, like this might, this might actually at some point between 15 and a half and zero, did it get, get really real?

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah, whatever it was the day Cleveland came in for that first three game series in September, I don't remember exactly what the number Was. But I want to say it was like seven and a half maybe right when Cleveland first showed up and was within the fun zone, you know, within striking distance. That's when I thought, you know, I'm the. I was the kid who grew up rooting for Coppin State in the NCAA tournament. So, like, I know long odds and I know how to convince myself that long odds are available to be gotten. And so there is a range factor there where you just go, oh, oh, if they win all six of these, like, that's not good at all. And when, when Cleveland first showed up, I'm looking at my scorecard right now so that I have it right. It was six and a half. So they were at six and a half with six to play against the Tigers. And at that point, if they win all of the games, they win the division.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Jason Benetti]

And you're just like, enough of. I'm enough of pie in the sky underdog Rooter anyway. And we just saw it last year with the Tigers.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Jason Benetti]

So, like, anybody that just said, yeah, 15 and a half's enough, like, no, it's not.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. I was going to ask whether that made Tigers fans more afraid of the possibility just because they'd been on the other end of it the previous year. And so they knew that no odds, no long odds precluded a collapse or a comeback happening. It's just we did it to other teams, so theoretically someone could do it to us.

[Jason Benetti]

And I, you know, there. This team has drawn comparisons to 2006 as well, which kind of faded down the stretch and made a run in the, in the post season, obviously. So I think Tiger fans who've been around for a while have seen versions of this before and they have generally been on the wrong side of it other than 1984. You know, they get out to the 35 and 5 and level off a little bit, but generally just ran roughshod on the division that year. So I think if you're old enough, you've seen all of it. But recency bias wise, there's no team that was better at equip for its fans to. To understand what was happening and hate it than Tigers fans.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a feeling when you were watching this team early in the season? I mean, they ended up winning one more game than they had in 2024 and just took a completely different path to it. Which would be funny, I guess, if you were not directly involved in it and suffering through it. And maybe now you can look back and laugh. I guess I'll ask you about that. Perhaps it's too soon to laugh, but did you think when everything was going so smoothly at the start of the season, because Meg and I kept kind of checking in with each other. Are the Tigers this good? Are they really good? I guess they're really good because we didn't think they'd be bad or anything, but we thought, well, maybe there will be kind of a consolidation year or I'm not sure that they'll be able to carry over that late season success. And then they were so good and so strong and so convincing early in the season that we kind of got lulled into overlooking some flaws.

[Jason Benetti]

I think it's a couple things. I think it's number one. We still don't know what this pocket of Tiger's time is going to end up being. You know, like who lives, who dies, who tells your story. Sort of Hamilton wise, like we don't even know what this postseason is going to be. But like you look at, you look at May, they swept the Red Sox, they swept the Giants. Like they won two of three against Toronto in May. Then in June, they won two of three against, against the Cubs. And there was all sorts of reason to believe that they could beat a bunch of playoff teams. Then Seattle came in before the All Star break and kind of took their mojo like it was, it was some blowout wins. And then suddenly that literally was the first time. That end of the Seattle series was the first time all year the Tigers lost more than three in a row. And then it happened twice in a big way in July, once, and then September. And I really do think there was like some coping that went along with it. And I, I also think when you play a ton of close games, you're just prone to some mercurial behavior. And that's, that's the way the Tigers have been.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, good thing they don't have to play the Mariners again. So, yeah, you don't want to, don't want to lose three to Seattle. Now that would be even worse probably. But what do you make of this? This then, given this historic collapse that ultimately is meaningless? I guess it's just, it's so absurd that it happened this way and then they ended up beating the Guardians. And so is that it? Do they just exercise the demons like a few days after they took root?

[Jason Benetti]

Really?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Like, is this just, well, shrug it off? Like, I don't even know how to analyze this or how it would feel for the players or for the fans to basically be given a reprieve here. I mean, not given they, they took it for themselves by winning that series. But is the, the slate clean now? Does this continue to haunt them? Like, is this something. Is this Tigers team notorious for all time because they blew the biggest lead that's ever been blown or is it just completely insignificant now?

[Jason Benetti]

I mean, you know, it's funny, number one, those are some pretty acute symptom demons, you know, like, yeah, like just, just rushed on set demons. And I know this is true for every team that until you reach the finish line, you don't know exactly what this team is going to be for the year. Like that only one team wins all of those cliches. But I don't know that there's a harder team to evaluate what they currently are as a state of a franchise than the Tigers. Because I think everyone wanted to paint them as the upand cominging team and everything that I see would suggest they are like you look, you look at what they've done this season. Had they closed this year 31 and 11 and rampaged into the playoffs and had the number one farm system according to some outlets in Major League Baseball, people would be like, oh man, man, I'm buying stock in the Tigers right now. Like they are in the best shape of any organization other than maybe like the Dodge, you know what I mean? Like there's a list and they'd be on it for sure. And now they're in the division series after losing 17 of 24 to close and they're in the same spot as they were last year with maybe just as good of a shot to advance. And so I think holistically taken, this Tigers team is still on an upswing that is, you know, you would hope limitless, but you also have this enormous pitfall right in front of you. It's like saying like, ah, we don't live in tornado alley two days after a tornado ripped through. Like, just, just because you don't really live in an area that's typically volatile in that way doesn't mean it can't happen. So trying to convince people that that it can't happen again is going to take some time. But to win another playoff series, they would have to then have won at least five of seven at the time when it most mattered. So I think I'm actually coping with this as I'm talking it out with you, because I don't really know what it is. And I. But Ben, like, I truly don't think we're going to know until at the end of the season. But you Know how many teams have made the playoffs back to back year? Like, you'd rather be the Tigers than the Mets, I'm sure right now, right?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, sure. Yeah. And I just. I'm just fascinated by whether the psychological scars just instantly clear up or whether they linger a little bit.

[Jason Benetti]

You can, like.

[Michael Bauman]

I don't.

[Jason Benetti]

As a fan, I think you sit with all of it. Yeah, I think you have to sit with all of it because you're invested. Like, whatever. There's a reason recency bias exists. Like, it just happened. So did 31 and 11. But like, that was last year. Like, who knows if that's going to happen? It's funny. Like, you can, if you were a. If you're a pessimist, you can latch onto 7 and 17 being your forever future. If you're an optimist, you can latch onto 31 and 11 being your forever future with the 7 and 17 being a blip. And then everybody else is just trying to convince you to have a decent day.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Just like, do Guardians fans. Do the Guardians get to gloat or not? Did they just immediately lose gloating rights? Like, who. Who gets to say scoreboard? I don't even know. It's just.

[Jason Benetti]

It is an interesting question, isn't it? Like, it really. It's.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's.

[Jason Benetti]

It's one of those, like, you know, in college basketball, you play twice in the regular season and you lose in the conference championship game and you won the first two and you're the one seed and they're the three seed, but they beat you the last time. So, like, I don't know, if you play a fourth time, you both feel good about yourselves. I don't know. But they're not going to play again until, who knows, 2026.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You can make so many analogies to other sports because you're such a utility man when it comes to the broadcast booth. This is just great. You can comp baseball to basketball, football just equally at hand. So one of the things that powered, maybe the primary thing that powered the Tigers comeback in 2024 was the bullpen and the pitching chaos approach. And then this year it was the bad kind of chaos and the bullpen kind of let the team down and was a weakness, certainly in September, really, for. For much of the latter part of the season. And they just didn't really have the arms and they couldn't really miss many bats. And I was wondering coming into this year whether the workload would take a toll just having had to work so hard down the stretch. In 2024. Whether that would have some sort of hangover effect, I don't know whether we can possibly tell whether it did or whether it was just different personnel or guys having different seasons or what. But that's something that I think makes the fan experience worse. Like, all losses are bad, but I think bullpen induced losses are particularly bad when you don't have confidence in your pen and you feel like you're going to fritter away every lead and you just don't have that shutdown guy. Especially in October when just about every team has one of those guys, if not several. That's something that this team is still dealing with even though it's still alive.

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah. You start using the phrase just my luck.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Jason Benetti]

In life. Right. Just my luck. They put green onions on a salad. I don't like green onions. Like, that's not your luck. Somebody just screwed up. Right. Somebody just didn't pay attention. It's not that they don't like you, it's that they just didn't pay attention to your order. But, you know, that's the problem with bullpens is that we know they're volatile. We know that year to year, you probably need to change some pieces, but we don't know exactly when those pieces are eroding. Like a car that you drove off the lot. Right. Like, are you. Do you have 60% of that value still? Like, you just don't know. And you try to build a collective that's as immune to that as possible. But, like, you, I don't know if you got the same texts, but as game three was rolling along on Thursday, I got a bunch of texts from people who are friends and in and around the league like, like, hey, are they fine? Is their bullpen, the Cleveland bullpen, finally burning out? Yeah, like, because does Gattis not have anything in the tank? Does Kate Smith not have anything in the tank? Like, that sort of question. And, you know, we asked our friends at Sport Radar the stat people, like, during the third to last series, how often Stephen Vogt used those guys three days in a row. It does it. Is it decisive? I don't know. You don't know? We don't. Like, we don't know. It kind of feels like that. Like, Tyler Holton, right. Did Tyler Houlton's workload create a lessened impact for him against lefties with that cutter and sweeper this year? I don't know. Maybe. But, like, we do have history that says bullpens do erode. And so, you know, I think everyone tries to be as immune to that as possible. I think that's the idea behind Troy Melt. Bolton is Fresh arm who you're not going to maximize innings as a starter. You're just going to put him in when you can to to be sort of a secret nuke out of the bullpen. But I think, I think it's got to be part of it. When you have a lot of the same guys in your bullpen from a year when they used the bullpen quite a bit. I think there's going to be some at least delta there, some change.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I will never not hear someone say Kate Smith and not expect to hear God bless America suddenly sounding. It's just too close. But I know that you said that that Mariner series in July was the turning point, but I would actually put it a little bit earlier in mid to late June when my best friend John Brebia was released. I think that was actually when the season went south. I know that he did not pitch particularly well for the Tigers, but I just think that as a personality, as a clubhouse glue guy, he was so indispensable that they didn't know what they had. And really it was just a completely just a tale of two seasons before Brebia and after Brebia.

[Jason Benetti]

So I would actually agree with that wholeheartedly and here's why. So in May. I'm just looking at my texts right now. Ben, it is so you're like you're the only person who's going to say that name to me in the post season. And so you're gonna get this story and you're gonna like it. We did a podcast with AJ Hinch in May. Dan Dickerson, Tiger's great radio guy, and I, and we asked players for questions for AJ So I asked John Brebia, who has a grand sense of humor, for a question for AJ Hinch. And here in its full glory, verbatim from my text messages, is the question that John Brevia asked, you ready for this?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh yes. Never been more ready.

[Jason Benetti]

The year is 2038. Earth has been decimated by a zombie apocalypse. Naturally, all of the relievers survived and have been thriving since the outbreak. AJ you have a beloved pet owl named Owl Capone. One day, Raiders invade our camp and take Owl Capone back to their base as a hostage. You're furious. Owl Capone is more than just a friend. He's also your spirit animal. You can only fit three other people in your Prius to go on this rescue mission, which relievers are you taking and why?

[Ben Lindbergh]

And what did he say?

[Jason Benetti]

Aj? AJ was like will vest and a lefty or something like that, right?

[Ben Lindbergh]

The answer was not John Breath, unfortunately it was no.

[Jason Benetti]

It happened to me. Not be. Yeah, that was, that was completely detached from his release, but it was like, it was like a power arm. A lefty and will vest, I think was the answer for Owl Capone's rescue. This was a day later by like, oh, I go up to him in the clubhouse. I was like, hey, if you think of it. And then he texted me the next day and was like, yeah. So we didn't have a ton of time to think about it, but here's what we came up with in the little limited time we had.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I hope he gets to play baseball as long as he wants, but also, I'm looking forward to his post baseball broadcasting slash podcasting career. Whatever comes next. Okay, so what was your role as the broadcaster who's presiding over historic collapse? Because you're the, the constant steady presence. You're coming into people's living rooms, you're comforting and you don't want to be a homer and Pollyannish and assure everyone, oh, it's gonna be fine. It's just we've still got an eight game lead or whatever. Right. You want to be clear eyed about it. But also, I guess you kind of become a counselor of some sort as the Tiger's world is falling apart around you. So did you see yourself as some sort of play by play person slash therapist, or was that not really your.

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, people can cancel therapy, right? People can be like, yeah, I'm done with this. These sessions are no longer useful for me. I think at some point it became very realistic that the Tigers could miss the playoffs. And if I sit there and I tell people the Tigers are going to make the playoffs, I'm certain of it. I am not telling the truth. It wasn't the truth at the time. There was a, there was a chance. I mean, they, they finished tied with the Astros, for goodness sakes. So, like, if I tell people it's all going to be fine, we promise. Like, you just can't. You can't know because 31 and 11 just happened the last year. So, you know, that Wednesday in Cleveland, the second loss, there was a definite sense of lethargy around the team. And we commented on it, Andy and I commented on it that there just wasn't the same emotional version curve from this team. And basically what we said, and I'm just Kind of paraphrasing. But what was in my mind is, hey, you have four days to fix this, starting tomorrow, and you can go get everything you wanted to get other than maybe the division. Like that still all is at hand, but you have to go get it. And there has to be a change. And I think we were on something of high alert for that emotional change. That whole series. Just those small things, the details the Tigers were doing that made them so marginally better, like turning fly balls into outs, turning first base into third base. Like, all of those things, we were just kind of magnifying those because I think that's what's going to lead you to winning two of four, as they basically had to to make the playoffs. We didn't know the full number at the time, but you're going to have to win some games. I mean, there's only. Also the piece where, like, I went back to my hotel room and ordered doordash Taco Bell that arrived on a bike while I was watching AF play the Astros. Like that. That's also a coping mechanism. But I guess if you. If you wanted me to put it a certain way, like, what did I become? It was more like the eyes of Dr. T.J. eckleberg in the Great Gatsby. Like, you're just watching all of it and, like, kind of silently judging, while you also are just gathering all the facts to make sure that you tell the truth to the audience.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And I also wonder, because you're a funny guy, I think, and most people think, you know, not John Brebia funny, but broadcaster funny for sure. And can you crack jokes while this is like, is there a gallows humor that happens, or does it have to be funereal? Like, you know, is it the wrong time to just kind of shoot the. The when. When this team is. Is falling apart? Do you have to speak in solemn tones?

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah, we. We had. We had a lot of votive candles around. No, I. It's.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's.

[Jason Benetti]

I. I'm all for maudlin humor when possible, and it's funny. We actually had, as a crew, we had that very discussion because it was Wednesday, there was a rain delay in this series. And we have all year since, like, May been playing hashtag rain delay questions during rain delay, where we take questions from the audience and answer whatever. Like, which Saved by the Bell character would you be? Or, like, what's your favorite cupcake? Or, you know, like, any. Anything anyone wants to ask us, right? Like, Jeff Daniels, who's a Tigers fan, sent in reenact Your favorite scene from Dumb and Dumber at one point earlier in the year. And people have loved it. Like, people have had fun with it. I like, we all get kind of chased down in public for people to tell us not that they love the Tigers, which is that, but also that they love rain delay questions. And so we had a discussion, like, do we do it here? Like, the Tigers are collapsing historically, do we do it? And we decided, yeah, of course. Like, we're not wearing black. So what we did was we did our regular open, came on, talked about the game for as long as possible, and then I pulled out a media guide because every broadcast that does comedy well does media guide props. Like, the Mets broadcast passes it around like it's the high hop holidays, and they just read from it when they're down 11, which is amazing. So I pull out a media guide and I say to Andy Dirks, I go, hey, do you think we should play rain delay questions? And he was like, yeah, I do. And I go, okay, well, if that's true, we'll do it. But I need you to put your hand on this media guide and swear to me that when the game happens, you're going to focus on the game. And so he solemnly swore, taking the oath of office for rain delay questions, that we were going to focus on the game during the game. And I just, like, it is a game. It is all fun and games until, like, the thing that you really invested in falls apart. Nobody wants that. And so, like, I, I am sensitive to that as a fan base, but, like, come on, you can, like, everybody says this about teams. If you get tighter, you're going to get beat. So I refuse to do that. That's not the sensibility of our show. And so we still did have our fun and we did joke around about stuff when it was available. And then the way you earn that, I think as an announcer is you nail the serious moments.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, the Tigers live to fight for at least a few more games. And for all anyone knows, they're just a normal team that took a normal path, path to the playoffs. So for anyone who has not been watching the Tigers all season and might just be introduced to them on a national stage and maybe just knows that that Tarek Skubal guy is good. What else or who else should they be looking out for? This is a team that's very aggressive on the bases, of course, but who are some of the secret weapons or the players that people will come to know and love hopefully over the next days or weeks?

[Jason Benetti]

Yeah, I mean, he hit a big I'll start with the guy who had a big homer in game three of the wild card round. But Dylan Dingler has become a very complete catcher in year two. He's been one of the best blockers in the league. He is a very good thrower and he combined with Javi Baez. We saw it just the other day in game three. The zip on that arm and the tag ability from Javi, who is like the best tagger in the history of Major League Baseball, can thwart your run game in what could be a low run scoring environment. Series against the Mariners, like that could be really important. The combination of Will Vest and Kyle Finnegan, the way AJ Hinch has deployed them as sort of closer one, closer two. Finnegan obviously through first in back of Flaherty in a leverage situation in game three. And there's reason to believe that he would be a leverage guy once again wherever AJ Needs him first. But I think that combination, they both can get left handers out. That's important. Will Vest's change up is improved Finnegan's splitter fastball combo. He's thrown more splitter since he's been with the Tigers, so that's fun. You know, I think Riley Green gets a lot of flack for the strikeouts and like I think it's going to be really fascinating to see how the Mariners pitch him because everybody else been throwing him fastballs, upper rail fastballs to strike him out. But that whole pinch hit for Riley Green in game two thing is the first time AJ Hinch has done it since I've been there in the last two years and I wonder if he just put it on paper. I wonder if that was like number one. He wanted the righty at bat for Jamai Jones. He didn't know if he was going to get it another time. But AJ Hinch loves forcing managers to think about things and I do wonder if that maybe dissuades Dan Wilson from a left hander at a certain time against Riley Green. So those are some of the headlines and I also think Casey Mize is going to be an interesting in cat as this team moves forward. His fastball has gotten firmer the past couple of starts and he's always been the fastball splitter guy dating back to his Auburn days. But you know, the breaking stuff has been somewhat better this year and, and you know, if the Tigers are going to go anywhere, it's going to take him, Flaherty, etc. Other than Scubal to do a number on some people.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, October will not be the same without you calling baseball, of course. Where can people hear you if they.

[Jason Benetti]

Just miss your voice Solely on effectively wild. I won't be doing anything other than no this week. I have Cowboys, jets for Fox, I'm doing for Westwood One next Thursday night, Giants Eagles on radio. And then I'm back with my regular college football partner, Robert Griffin III next Saturday in lovely Lubbock, Texas, for the unbeaten $26 million men, the Texas Tech Red Raiders.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, someone's got to call the other sports, too, so I guess it's okay. We'll let you. We'll share you. It's all right. Thanks. So many things. Thanks.

[Jason Benetti]

Effectively Wild.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And of course, you can always go look up the back catalog of have a seat with Jason Benetti and Dan Dickerson, where you can sometimes hear John Brebia submitted questions to AJ Hinch, and you can hear Dan, of course, on the radio, Colin Tiger's games. So that's some consolation at least. Well, it is always a pleasure. And I think the rallying cry will probably be win one for Brebia because he doesn't have a ring, I believe. So I assume that that the guys will just be mainly motivated by the idea of getting him some some jewelry and also a full playoff share. And we will look forward to you calling Tigers games again one day. And of course, you are always welcome. Moments notice you have a stray Tiger's thought that occurs to you in the middle of the night. I'm always awake. Just text me. We'll get you back on the podcast anytime, Ben.

[Jason Benetti]

Thank you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay, we had an incredible cutoff moment at the end of the intro, transitioning to the break before Benetti, where I was remarking to Bauman that he was keeping Effectively Wild listeners waiting to hear Benetti, but that they're accustomed to waiting. And there was a brief silence and I hit stop on the recording at the very instant that Bauman began to say say they're in the cuck chair. And immediately he burst into uproarious laughter because he realized that I had hit stop the second he started to say that and that it was not preserved on tape. And, you know, I could have considered myself lucky and left it on the cutting room floor, but I felt like I had to acknowledge it for effectively wild lore. This is now, to my knowledge, the first time, and I suppose about to be the second time that the phrase cuck chair has been uttered on this podcast. When you bring Bauman on, you both know what you're in for and have no idea whatsoever. I wonder, by the way, what the odds are that Xander Bogart's still would have had a challenge remaining in that situation in an ABS scenario. Because in an elimination game and a close game and the ninth inning, by the time you get there, given the roughly 5050 success rate of batters challenging or players challenging in general, pitchers are the worst, catchers are the best. Might the Padres challenges have been exhausted by that point anyway? And might that have been even more frustrating if you had a challenge system but no challenges remained? Meaning when there was a glaring call like that? That's one of the reasons that I tend to think that we will eventually get full abs, because you're bound to get a game with a terrible high stakes call and no recourse. I wonder whether people won't just think why are we depriving ourselves of correct calls at this point? And hey, speaking of Cal, he won an award. He beat Aaron Judge for the Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award. Not sure whether the outcome of the Baseball Digest Player of the Year Award is predictive of mvp. Not sure if it's like people who try to predict the Oscars by looking at the BAFTAs or the globes or the Critics Awards and the Guild Awards. I don't know. But my position was not necessarily that Cal should win mvp. If anything, I lean toward Judge, but that Cal was the Player of the Year, that he should win Player of the Year awards in the American League. And so I suppose I think justice was done here. Of course, justice is always done when people sign up to support the podcast on Patreon, which they or you can do by going to patreon.com effectivelywatch wild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay AD free and get yourself access to some perks, as have the following five listeners Bob Daboulina, Alex Odie, Melanie Paul and Patrick Garza. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, personalized messages, discounts on merch and ad free fangraphs memberships, and so much more. Check out all the [e-mail] effectivelywild playoff livestreams coming soonish. Of course we need Meg to complete her recuperation, her convalescence. We need her to have a voice. But I hope that will happen soon. I hope she'll be back with us next time. In the meantime, if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastangraphs.com you can join our Facebook group at facebook.com group effectivelywild. You can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music and other podcast platforms. You can join or lurk on the Effectively Wild subreddit @r effectivelywild. And you can check the show notes at Fan Graphs or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we cited today. We hope you have a wonderful weekend, enjoy the Division Series action, and we will be back to talk to you early next week.

[Michael Bauman]

Where do you go in a world of bad times for the good takes.

[Jason Benetti]

On baseball and life with a balance.

[Michael Bauman]

Of analytics and humor? Philosophical music.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Effectively what.

[Jason Benetti]

Effectively Wild Effectively Wild.