← Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
Effectively Wild Episode 2384: Playoff Baseball is Cruel (But it Beats the Alternative)
01:40:12
Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about Meg’s recovery from illness and her ongoing emotional distress as a postseason spectator, then share their takeaways from the first two games of each ALDS and the first game of each NLDS. After that (51:15),
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- [00:00]
A
With Ben Lindbergh and Matt Rowley. Come for the ball.
- [00:06]
B
Banter's free baseball is a simulation.
- [00:11]
A
It's all just one big conversation. Effectively Wild hello and welcome to episode 2384 of Effectively Wild, a Fan Graphs baseball podcast, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Rowley of fangraphs and I lived. I'm joined by Ben Lindberg of the Ringer, who's also alive. How nice. Hi Ben, how are you?
- [00:42]
C
Well, in my case I'm perfectly fine, but I think what the people want to know is how are you both physically and maybe more importantly emotionally?
- [00:50]
A
Let's set the emotional part aside for a second because that's a longer answer. The shorter answer is how am I physically? Which is much improved. I know I still sound a mess, but I am now speaking above a whisper, which is so exciting for me, Ben, because for the last couple days of last week that was decidedly not the case. I don't know what I had, Ben. The at home COVID test told me it wasn't Covid. The sore throat experience made me think that it was like the razor blade throat variation of COVID Lovely little sub genre of COVID we got floating around. I don't think adults should have fevers. You know, I don't think children should either. To be clear. I'm not trying to like say anything unkind about young, young people because fevers suck. I know they have a purpose, but it's not right that adults have fevers. That feels like stuff you should grow out of, like being picky about food or like, you know, belief in Santa. So would I have preferred to work rather than have my Wednesday and Thursday complet completely detonated by a steady 102 degree fever? I would have, you know, I would have rather have been working and I like my job, so part of that's not surprising. But also like working is working and this time of year working a lot. So it sucked pretty bad. I've thought a lot about swallowing. In the last like week and a half, I've been like really aware of that physical process in a way that was kind of scary at times, candidly. But here we are. I did live. I am so grateful to, well, to many people in this particular moment, most especially to Matt Martell who kept the site floating, thriving really, not just surviving, but doing a very good job. And to effectively, Wilde's own Michael Bauman who came in to pinch it for me from an editing perspective. Cause I was like, look, I would not be helping Right now, I still wanna do some reflection about my own relationship to my job as a human being. I think that's worthwhile. But for anyone, I didn't work for two days of the postseason. That's how sick I was. You know, that's what that's like. That sound bad? Pretty bad.
- [03:11]
C
Well, I wonder how grateful you would feel to Bauman if and when you listen to his appearance on this podcast, specifically the beginning of it, in which I think he forced us all to think about swallowing more than we would care to. But, you know, he stepped up. He sure did. And he did co host that episode in a memorable fashion. Now you're back, and I do want to talk about the Mariners aspect of how you're feeling. Actually, we will talk about that later on this episode because we will be joined by the great Ben Gibbert, certified rock star and Mariners fan and effectively Wild's listener. And so he will come on to talk to us about his Mariners fan experience this weekend. And you will get into that, too, and we'll talk about some specific moves. But that Mariners Tigers series, I think, has objectively been the best thus far. I know it has felt like torture to you and Ben, but. But for me, well, I felt some secondhand anxiety, not just on. On your behalf and for your sakes, but also just. It's hard not to feel that when you're watching games that close. I mean, a 3, 2 and then a 2, 3, or a 2, 3 and a 3, 2, depending on how you're looking at things. So the. The one run game gods take and then the one run game gods giveth. So it works out to a split. But boy, what an experience, even for me, let alone for you.
- [04:42]
A
I think that if you had told me that they would come away from the first two games of the spear, the series with it knotted up one one, I would have been like, yeah, that makes good sense. I would have had the game that they won and loss reverse.
- [04:59]
C
Right.
- [05:01]
A
I was aware of Troy Melton. It's not like I didn't know who he was. He was the top 100 guy for us. Sure pitch like one, didn't he? Sure did pitch like one, didn't he'? Am I having fun? No, I'm not having fun. I mean, look, there are moments, but I. I don't think that I can. I mean, we do try in a segment we have spoiler alert already recorded to convey the depth of the anxiety. I think the part of it that I was not prepared for. And granted, like the Mariners were in the postseason in 2022. But my main feeling in that year was like, this is kind of gravy. I didn't think they would go super deep. And I, I mean, I did believe in that rotation. I thought they could be frisky, Ben. I thought they could give some people some trouble. But once they beat the, the Blue Jays to advance, I was like, okay, so, like, they've won a series and now they're going to get a home playoff game. Like, they're, they're assured that. And so people, the, the, the persnickety folks who want to be like, well, the wild card isn't the post. Those people just shut up now. They have to shut up now. And, and then I, and then I was at the 18 inning game, and like, that's such a marathon. And it ended so, so sadly. But it felt like, okay, this is the start of something, right? I, I came into this postseason with expectations. And then the universe played a little trick on me, Ben, which is when you have a buy, you have the first week, you're not worried about anything. I mean, I was worried about having to maybe go to the hospital.
- [06:36]
C
Yeah.
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A
But not because of baseball. I, I was like, well, maybe. Maybe Meg's gonna learn about her local urgent care. But I didn't, I didn't have baseball stress. I had. I had. I can't speak. Stress I had. Will my throat ever feel the same stress I had? Will this fever ever break? How long does it, you know, like, does going to your GP actually do anything in this situation? You know, that's the conversation I was really preoccupied with. With, like, what are they gonna tell me? You know, always sick. It's probably a virus. We can't do anything for you. You don't have little dots on your throat, so it's probably not strep. So, you know, get some sleep, rest. Right?
- [07:14]
C
Get some stress, have fluids, et cetera.
- [07:16]
A
I have never been better hydrated than I week I drank. Okay, we are going to talk about baseball. I'm. I'm working my way back, so everyone's going to just like, bear with me for a second. I'm going to admit to something embarrassing, and then it's going to have a point. It's not going to be a good point, but it is going to happen. I am not like a. I'm not a weirdo about Stanley cups. And look, those of you who are, you're like, that was judgmental. I know, but I'm not wrong. You in your heart, you know, you're Being weird. It's a reusable cup. Like, you need one of those, you know, like. And I know we all have more than one in the same way that we all have more than one tote bag. But like, you relax out there. Part of why it's good is that you're reusing it and so you're not doing plastic. And then you have like 50 of them. What do you think that's accomplishing? Like, anyway? And I had like a, I had a little bit of an attitude about Stanley Cups because I was like, this is dumb. You know, this is camping gear. Why are we so excited?
- [08:12]
C
Yeah, you've come around.
- [08:14]
A
Well, okay. So then what happened was two years ago I had one advertised to me that was lovely looking, you know, it was this like beautiful deep jewel tone green, like a dark green. It made me think of the forest. I think I've told this story and so I bought it. And then I. That was the only one I bought, you know, I. That was it. And that was a 30 ounce one that's also important to the story. And then, Ben, here's the thing that happened this year. Stanley cup did like a Halloween release. And it's got a little, it goes in the dark, it's got a little bats on it, it's purple. Part of it's purple, most of it's black. I bought one on ebay. Anyway, it's 40 ounces. It's ridiculous. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. I'm telling the story, really. But it's 40 ounces. I was like, this is too big of a cup. It's pretty cumbersome. Candidly, it's heavy. The cat knocked it over on Saturday and like spilled a bunch of it because they're not watertight, you know, they're not. Like, this is the other flaw. It's like, this is like a very precarious heavy implement to drink. But I did, I did buy it. And then I think I drank on, on an average day last week. Like four of them, maybe five, because it being cold felt so good on my throat. And so I was like, I've never my. Sorry, this is too much information. My pee was so clear. I was like, I am so sick. Except for this part of my body, which is in the best shape of its life. Never, never in better shape. Right now my kidneys are like, you're doing great, girl. We love you. All of that to say it's been stressful and. Oh, right now I remember this story. Much like the constant need to pee that I had last week. I think the part of this that I was ill prepared for, especially after my week off of stress about baseball, but stress about, you know, maybe dying was. It's so relentless. You know, it's just this. The gaps in feeling better are so narrow. You know, like in that game Sunday, Jorge Polanco hits his first home run off of Terry Skubel. And I say out loud in my living room, jorge Polanco, who I've never said anything bad about before, Perfect baseball player, best in the game, beautiful man. Never said anything bad about that guy ever in his life. And somewhere, God was like, I heard it, though. And like, he did it, and it was so improbable. But then here's the thing that happens, Ben. They make the third out, and then they have to pitch again.
- [10:46]
C
I know.
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A
And you're immediately back to being afraid.
- [10:49]
C
Because the briefest reprieve you can imagine, it's so brief.
- [10:53]
A
And. And. And particularly when you're facing Skubal, because, you know, he gave up those two runs, but he's so good. They're quick innings a lot of the time with him, you know, and so there wasn't relief really much at all. And then he hits the second home run, and you're like, well, maybe. And then you look at social media and people are, like, excited. And I'm like, hey, everybody tighten up. Like, what are we. What are we doing? Are we new? Is this our first time? Like, what do you be afraid? Post from a place of fear? What's wrong with you? Like, yeah, come on, get it together. And then they tie the game, and you're like, see, this is why you should be afraid, because now all of you were disappointed. You know, who's not disappointed? Me. I mean, I am, but I also am. Like, I was ready. I was prepared for that. It's so fascinating, too, because my main, like, sports posting experience of the last, you know, decade, at least in a playoff context, has been with football. And, you know, I know things about football, and I'm aware of the analytical debates and I listen to podcasts that have that lens, but it is a sport that I'm content to be a little bit dumb about because it's my fan sport. You know, this is my fun time. Not yesterday. Not yesterday, Ben. Yesterday I was screaming at my TV and begging for a lobotomy, but generally it's my fun sport. And so I know how to post as a football fan, and I know how to post about baseball, but generally I'm not doing it. From a place of my team is playing in the postseason. This. This is a muscle I have not flexed and have not developed. And so I had this very strange experience because like yesterday on Saturday, I was so furious that Kirby was left in to face Kerry Carpenter. Why are you warming Gabe Spire if you're not going to use him in that? Like, what was the circumstance then, Dan, when you would have brought him in? Like, what was his purpose if not to face Carrie Carpenter? Like, are you saving him for Riley? What are you. Okay, so then on Sunday, Castillo. I felt like I was watching a slightly different version of Luis Castillo than some of the people I follow on social media because they were then mad that Gabe Spire was brought in and not. And I was like, I was not sure. I was like, no, no, no, you are wrong. I feel better. And then Gabe Spire was like, I got you, girl. And I was like, thank you. You're a lot like my ill advised ebay purchase Stanley Cup. I was so convinced I was gonna get a fake one. I was like, this is gonna be fake bullshit. And then it wasn't. It was. It hasn't glowed in the dark even one time. But I'm like, do I need to like set it in a windowsill? Does it have to charge? How does glowing in the dark work?
- [13:45]
C
Well, I don't know, but I'm glad you're hydrated and glad you're on the mend more or less physically and vocally.
- [13:51]
A
Oh, I gotta unmute some people. This is reminding me I did. I was like, you know what? The right answer to the annoyance I'm feeling right now, it would have been to log off. But that option was not available to the part of my brain that still needed serotonin. So I was just like, I'm just gonna mute some folks. Cause that seems, that seems better than like unfollowing people I like just because they are confused about Gabe's fire or disagree. And then I was like, Gabe, you gotta do. Gotta do right here.
- [14:17]
C
Cause otherwise, yeah, it's been entertaining. Terror inducing. And I think probably both teams feel like they let one get away maybe because, yeah, you're right. Like, you wouldn't feel bad if you're the Tigers and you're playing in Seattle. You're on the road, okay, you take a split, you settle for that. Except when you win the first one and then you've got Derek Schubel going in game two, you're thinking, okay, we can steal this whole away series here and we can go to nothing. Yeah. And then have another school game in the holster. Whereas if you're the Mariners, okay, you feel totally down in the dumps after the first game because that felt winnable, that felt like it was somewhat squandered. We finally get an extra inning game, which of course probably could have come in better circumstances for you. I was happy to see a clean inning, nobody on base in an extra inning for the first time in a while. But of course you couldn't enjoy it in that situation. So you lose in 11. There's some decisions you wish had been made differently. It's so close. And then of course, you're thinking, well, it could well be over here because we're going into Skubal in game two with. With Skubal again waiting in the wings.
- [15:29]
A
A couple of those things, I thought that those were things I was thinking, Ben, I was like, this is over, this is done, right? They're done.
- [15:34]
C
So you managed to pull that one out and even the series and suddenly you feel like, ooh, okay, now we kind of got away with one. And so the scales are balanced sort of. And you know, you're almost never actually going to hit scubal hard. So it's going to come down to can we scratch across a few runs maybe Can Jorge Polanco suddenly hit a couple solo dingers and then of course he suddenly can.
- [15:56]
A
He's the best player in baseball, Ben.
- [15:58]
C
Of course, yes, as you've consistently said, always said. And then, you know, can our guy pitch well enough for our guys to, to keep it close and then we gut it out and we get the clutch win? I mean, that's how you're going to beat Schualpo. Usually it's not going to be in convincing fashion. You're going to just basically barely scratch one out. Yeah, exactly. So both teams can feel bad and both teams can also feel good, I guess, about how that worked out. But yeah, it's. It's been quite a competitive, contentious and, and really riveting series, even if you're not directly rooting for one of these teams. And not all the other series could say the same. I mean, you have Yankees, Blue Jays, which has just been a total trouncing. We are talking on Monday. So you were getting a, a brief little lull in your series in the AL series, but the Blue Jays are up 2 zip on the Yankees and it has not been close. I guess the first game maybe was closer than the final score suggested, and then the second game was less close than the final score suggested. There should be a way to to quantify that. Maybe there is, but, you know, like when a game ends up being a blowout, but it was really quite close, the entire, like there was tension. It's different to have a blowout that was a blowout from the start and a blowout that became a blowout late. I guess you could. You could quant this with leverage index or. Or something like that. There's probably some metric you could easily come up with some toy stat to say, well, how close did it feel? Like average, average index or, you know, whatever it is. Right. But either way, they were not close. And yeah, things could have swung and gone another way. And everyone's upset with Aaron Judge because there was that one pitch that he swung at that he would not normally swing at when the game was still close in the sixth inning in Game 2, and the Yankees had a real rally going and then Stanton and Judge and they got not out of that, and then it was blown wide open by Toronto. I feel good for Blue Jays fans just because they haven't won a series yet, but they've won multiple games, and that's. That's multiple more games than they had won in previous postseasons with this core. And to see Vlad just doing what he does on this big stage, that's been exciting to see. And, you know, this team just came into things with a lot of baggage, a lot of things to get off their back. And through two games, at least they have. And I know there's something of a mismatch when it comes to the just ferocity of the rivalry. I think probably Blue Jays fans see the Yankees as a bigger rival than the Yankees see the Blue Jays. But nonetheless, I think to really get that October monkey off your back a little bit, to some extent at least, winning a couple games and to do it against the Yankees and to make them look bad and embarrass them, that's got to feel good for the Blue Jays and for Blue Jays fans, whatever comes next.
- [18:55]
A
I am really fascinated by how much Yankees fans enjoy being mad at Aaron Judge. I feel like there's like a real reveling in it that is surprising to me because it's like this man is likely to be the mvp, and even if he isn't like they should, he should just be the co mvp. Like, what an amazing season. But that they are. They are very ready to be mad. Well, at the errands generally. Right. I feel like if your name is Aaron and you work for the Yankees, you're in dangerous territory. I would have liked for the first two games in that series to be more competitive. I do think that, yeah, you're going to get at least one, like, team gets kicked in the mouth kind of. Kind of situation. Like you're bound to have one of those series every time. I was surprised, for instance, that the. The Brewer scored so many runs against the Cubs. Yeah, you want. You want some balance, you know, you want. You don't want it to get late early. You know, that's like a bad feeling. But even games like that tend to offer, you know, something interesting. Right. Like, we could focus on the score of Sunday's Yankees Toronto game, or we could be like, wow, that Trey is savage, man. He's pretty good. Like, what a. I have really enjoyed and the. The Yankees were beneficiaries of just such a phenomenon is what I'm about to describe, obviously. But it's like, it feels like we've had some good, like, young guys stepping forward pitching performances. Right. Our. Our good friend Cam Schlitler haven't. Haven't lost. It was sick for a week. Still got that holstered. Yeah, I heard that a Rod said it wrong. I heard that a Rod called him shitler.
- [20:39]
C
Yes. It happens. Yeah.
- [20:42]
A
And it's should never happen.
- [20:46]
C
Carlos Radon is lined up for game three.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah.
- [20:49]
C
Which is a vote of confidence in Cars Radon. When you have Cam Schlitler right there, playoff hero ready to go, and he's just waiting in the wings. I mean, you could. You could lose with Cam Schlitler not having pitched in the series. And how upsetting would that be?
- [21:05]
A
Well, I think the answer to that is I wouldn't worry about that happening because I think that if Carlos Rod on gives up one solitary run, that we might see Cam, you know, like, it could happen.
- [21:15]
C
Yeah.
- [21:16]
A
It's just this is. You're at the all hands on deck stage for. For the Yankees. You know, you're at the back against. Up against a wall. Really, the stage you're in if you're in New York, and obviously this might end up being true for various teams after today's action, but you're in. You're in the part of the postseason schedule where your managers start borrowing future time at exorbitant rates, you know, because you can't. You can't worry about tomorrow. You. You can't worry about your Aaron Boone. You can't worry about tomorrow Aaron. There's only today Aaron. That's all that exists. Because if you don't win today, tomorrow Aaron, he's just a guy who's waiting to Talk to disgruntled media members because they had booked a bunch of. Of travel and now it's got to all change. You know, how much time logistics takes. It takes a lot of time. So, you know, you can't worry about it. Do you need Cam Schlitler for. For game four? Who cares if. If Rodan's getting bombed? You just got to bring Cam in.
- [22:18]
C
Yes. You know, Carl Swadon, very good pitcher, to be clear. I'm kind of kidding, but I'm just trying to.
- [22:24]
A
I'm not trying to doubt, I'm not trying to doubt Rodon. I think Rodon is good. He's had a great season. Um, but I just mean that, like, you're on a knife's edge, you know?
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C
Yeah. And this was something I wrote about and I think mentioned on the podcast last week. Just even though this was a good year on the whole for old pitchers and some of these rotations are pretty old, I did highlight the young guys, the first year pitchers who really did play a prominent role on their staffs after the days they debuted, which in some cases was very recently. Right. Like, Trayus Savage was brilliant and you know, five and a third no hit innings and Schlitler was great and, and even Connolly early, he was pretty good. Like, he was obviously overshadowed by Schlitler, but for a few innings there, he was matching him 0 for 0. And then, you know, things went wrong and he kind of got Babbitt and defense let him down and everything, but given the circumstances, he was fairly impressive, I think. And so we were deprived of seeing Parker Messick in these playoffs because the Guardians got bounced before he could pitch. But, you know, between those guys, maybe we'll see Chad Patrick pitch at some point and Kate Horton is waiting in the wings potentially if he heals and if the Cubs advance. But yeah, Trey Savage, it's a, a tough assignment. Like I mentioned on the pod last week, Chase Delater being pressed into service, making his major league debut in the playoffs.
- [23:46]
A
I didn't care for that. I didn't care for that. I didn't care for it. Ben.
- [23:49]
C
I thought, yeah, we've, we've seen that before. Players. He was the sixth player, I believe, to make his major league debut in the postseason. But it was not just that. It was also that he had not played, period, for months because he was out with hamate surgery and he hadn't played center since the previous season. So that was a lot.
- [24:06]
A
I, I know that you've already talked about this, so forgive me for. I just have to emphasize this point, I understand the appeal of getting the Lotters bat into that lineup. I understand why you look at what you got, which is not very much when it comes to offensive production as a club. And you say our best chance for positive variance on the offensive side of the ball comes with Chase the Lauder. And maybe he'll be good enough to give Meg time to work out the lovely parody song that's been haunting her since he started his pro career. Been trying to make it work and I can't get the meter right. I should have bothered Ben about this. No, I shouldn't have. Good boundaries, Meg. I understand all of that. And he is an easy guy to root for because he has just been so snake bitten by injury. It has been such a problem. He keeps getting hurt. It's like he's the prospect who was promised and we're not getting him. And like, okay, I get the. I get the case. But then have a guy dh, like putting him in center field is insane. It was insane. And then they kept cutting to his family and I was like, I need to know less about what these people look like. I need to see less of the Dilaudors because it was almost so bad. I'm like, you're not putting this young man in a position to succeed. And like, I'm sure that Chase Slaughter has made a plenty stern stuff. He's faced disappointment before. Like, I get it. But I was so furious for him. I was upset. And then like that first play happened and I was like, well, what, what did you expect? Yeah, that was in there for God's sake. Like it would be better with Quan.
- [25:47]
C
Yeah, that was the second hand cringe there was strong I felt for him and he rebounded and he even had an outfield assist later in the game. And probably they know what he's made of in his makeup and they figured he could handle it and he seemed to handle it fine and won't be psychologically scarred from this forever. Hopefully. I'm sure he will have nightmares about that moment for the rest of his life. I certainly would. Then again, I'm not a professional athlete, so you never know. But. But no, this is a product of the Guardians position player weakness and their expectations for him. But that is a lot to put on him. And we got a question from Aaron Patreon supporter who is not one of the Aaron's Yankees fans are mad at. I believe this Aaron is a Guardians fan and he said Chase Delater just got his first major league kit. Or did he? His career Average will be zero on opening Day next year. Bird Bones willing, I'm assuming he gets two first career MLB base hit balls. I looked up Alex Kirillov, looks like he got his first hit in the playoffs as well. And yeah, it's clearly his first major league hit. I mean, yeah, this counts. If anything, it should count more. I know that we treat playoff stats differently and we kind of cordon them off, but it's absolutely his first major league hit. It's just not his first regular season hit. And also, I wouldn't say that his batting average will be zero on opening day. I would say his batting average will be undefined. He won't have a batting average. Yeah. Unless and until he goes hitless that day. So, yeah, it's a. It's a moment that hopefully he will be able to look back at and not suffer flashbacks too, for the rest of his life. But, you know, we're seeing this with these starters, too. And we got a question from another Patreon supporter, Articuno, who asked about Treja Savage and whether this was the fastest anyone's ever gone to their first postseason start, essentially because he was such a recent arrival and he really was like the best Blue Jays pitcher down the stretch, but it was just three appearances, three starts. And so the question was, he made three appearances before a postseason start. Is that the lowest ever? And of course, Sarah Langs had the stat that he will be or is now the third pitcher to make a postseason start within his first four MLB appearances, including playoffs, joining two Rays pitchers. Matt Moore did this memorably 2011 ALDS Game 1. And Shane Boz 10 years later, 2021, Game 2. But yeah, these guys did not look phased whatsoever. And yesavic was nasty. And you know, this is like some combination of injuries or underperformance. Other, more experienced veteran pitchers were left off of Toronto's roster. And injuries, I guess, are always hanging over things at this point in the season. Either players are unavailable or maybe they're compromised in some way, or you suspect that they are and you don't get confirmation of that until the day after the playoffs when they have some serious surgery and you're like, how are you playing with that? But this is always an undercurrent. And it's an undercurrent this year too, where there aren't just some guys who are actually off of rosters, like Kate Horton. I mean, that's a big blow after having lost Justin Steel earlier this year to lose Kate Horton for this round, if not longer. And Brian Wu for the Mariners. Right. There was some hope that the bye week would let him come back, and he threw off a mound, but just wasn't quite ready yet.
- [29:13]
A
Yeah.
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C
Yeah. So there's. There's that kind of case where someone is just off the roster and you miss them. Then there's the other where someone's sort of in no man's land or in limbo or, like, are they at full strength? Like, Trey Turner returned for the Phillies, and he was playing at shortstop and. And seemed okay, but you never know. Is he running at full strength? He barely had gotten back into shortstop action at the end of the regular season. And then, like, the Cubs are missing Kate Horton, the Brewers are missing Branded Woodruff. That's. That's a big blow to them, you know, another lat strain for him, and that's not the first time. And so that hurts to. To lose him. Hurts him physically as well. But then you also have, like, Will Smith, for example, with the Dodgers, right? He's. He's on the roster. He did hit the other day. He didn't do particularly well. I think he struck out a couple times. He got hit by a pitch. Fortunately, not in the same bird bone where he had taken a foul tip and had a hairline fracture. But, like, he's huge if he's hitting, especially with the Dodgers having a lot of lefty hitters, the Phillies having so many lefty pitchers, not just the starters, but in the bullpen, that. To have Smith there instead of Ben Fred or whoever, like, that's. That's a big swing. But then again, are you even getting the fully effective Will Smith, or are you not really getting the Will Smith you're thinking of? So. But, you know, he's not starting Game 2, and it's unclear if he can catch without restrictions and everything. And so that's the kind of thing where he's on the roster, but is he really on the roster? Is that, like, is this the effective Will Smith that we are pining for? Or is that guy gone for now and those things can really affect the series? Or Jackson Trurio, who's now nursing his own hamstring thing for the brewers, or Bo Bichette, who was left off the Blue Jays roster along with Chris Bassett and Max Scherzer? Like, you wish that these rosters could really be at full strength, and you could just not have to have any questions about, oh, what would have been if we had had so and so healthy, but you could play that game with pretty much any team in almost every Season.
- [31:29]
A
Yeah, I, I think that, you know, it's so rare. I, I can't think of an example really for a team to reach this point in the calendar and have all of their guys, you know.
- [31:40]
C
Yeah. It's all relative strength and health. It's. Yeah.
- [31:43]
A
Right. And so, and you know, and obviously not all injuries are created equal either in terms of the, the potential they have to persist through the entire month or, you know, like it's different. Having Kate Horton hurt is really different than having like your seventh reliever hurt. Right. And of course guys get hurt in the course of the playoffs. Right. Like Harrison Bader's just not playing tonight.
- [32:08]
C
Yeah.
- [32:08]
A
You're always sort of having to deal with not having your full complement of guys in all likelihood. And all you can do is hope that, that the guys you're, you're missing can come back at some point or that they aren't as, you know, central to what you're trying to do. But yeah, man, like we saw, we were seeing the effects of Brian Wu not being available for the Mariners just in the first couple of games of the series. Right. I am also confused. Sorry. We, I. What's Bryce Miller's purpose for this team if he's not coming? You know what I mean? Like if, if you're not bringing him in in long relief. I think I feel like that would have happened if Ryan we were on the team, but then like he just got. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But it is sort of an odd thing where you, you have to kind of, you know, vulture on it together to a certain extent and hopefully not means like a baby Ultron. That probably doesn't make any sense to have a baby of Ultron.
- [33:04]
C
Yeah. I do feel like sometimes teams carry more pitchers than they need to in the playoffs specifically. And granted they might not have a great bench because they've been carrying so many relie all season long. But especially when you have these series with the built in off days. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, what emergency would you need to break glass and use this guy? Granted, there's no zombie runner. There is the potential for long extra inning games and you might just need a body and you don't want to wear out your pen. So there is that potential that I guess you have to plan for and if you don't have just, you know, a grade A pinch hitter just waiting to be used, then maybe you're not losing that much. But. But yeah, there are some guys who get carried on postseason rosters. It's just like if you are used at all, something has gone horribly wrong.
- [33:55]
A
Yeah, it is sort of an interesting thing. And, like, sometimes those guys end up coming up big. Or like, they. They're put in a position to succeed through clever usage. And then sometimes you're like, I mean, I guess you do need Leo Rivas on your roster. I guess you do. And you. Do you know what happened? What. What if one of your.
- [34:15]
C
Especially because you're not locked in. If. If someone does get hurt, you can place them. So there is some recourse.
- [34:21]
A
Yeah, it's a tricky thing. It's a tricky thing. I don't. I don't envy them, the decisions they have to make because I think they're stressful, but it hasn't stopped me from yelling at my TV a bunch.
- [34:34]
C
Yeah, I guess the fact that your voice returned in time for you to emit some sort of sound, I guess was fortuitous.
- [34:42]
A
I did have a thought where I was like, am I being, like, newly derelict in my duties? Because me trying to podcast last week would have been a disaster. Like, I couldn't have done it. I was. I was barely above a whisper. It was so painful. It was really bad, Ben, you know, that sucked. I don't wish that on anybody. I don't think it. I don't know if it was Covid. I don't think it was. But whatever it was, I didn't care for it, wouldn't do it again. And then, you know, it started. It improved, you know, Friday. Friday is when the fever broke. And then it was. With each day, it has gotten better and better. I'm like, really on the upsw. Right. But I did have the thought where I was like, I do have to paw tomorrow. Should I try to be silent during this rest?
- [35:25]
C
Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
But then I was like, be true to yourself, you know? And who knows? Like, I. I know they couldn't hear me when I was saying, just have like, a good at bat. Just put together a good at bat. Like, you can just. Just like at One at. One at a time. One at bat at a time. One more good strike like that on you.
- [35:44]
C
Keep your eye on the ball, fellas. Don't try to do too much. Just the most generic little league advice.
- [35:51]
A
Yeah. The person you're really soothing in those moments is obviously yourself, because they can't hear you. I did have a realization at one point that my stream was ahead of Matt Martel's, slightly behind Ben Clemens's, which was relevant because Ben was writing the Gamer, so he and I had to be in communication. But then they introduced this, like, danger that he would know about a good thing or a bad thing before me. And then I realized that all of us were slightly behind MLB.com and game day. Game day was how I found out that Brash gave up the.
- [36:27]
C
Oh, yes. Yeah.
- [36:29]
A
And so then I was like, I need to put that away. And when I'm watching the 9th, I'm like, I need to have both my computer closed and my phone over there because I don't want to know. But then. But then I was like, maybe I do want to know, but then it's.
- [36:44]
C
Better to see it. I've found that strong.
- [36:47]
A
Yeah.
- [36:47]
C
That in play, no outs strikes fear into your heart in a way that even seeing it happen, yes, it's a sinking feeling, but at least you don't have to imagine the worst.
- [36:58]
A
Right.
- [36:59]
C
You know you're watching the worst.
- [37:01]
A
That's right.
- [37:02]
C
It's just a little bit better. Plus, in play nuance, you know, it could be a home run. Like, you never know. It might be better than that anyway. It's probably better that you were able to vocalize or that you did, whether you were able or not, just to let out some of that stress.
- [37:17]
A
Yeah. Vent the spleen. Yeah, you got to vent the spleen.
- [37:20]
C
Yeah. It's tough, I think, this NL series or the two NL Series, these off days, it's tough to get into a rhythm of watching because we're recording now before the game twos on Monday. And then there was off days in the NL series on Sunday, and there will be off days again on Tuesday. And the way they do this or the reason they do this, they. They want all the teams to have the same amount of rest after the wild card round, but they also want there to be baseball games every day.
- [37:54]
A
Yeah.
- [37:54]
C
And so they. They stick in that off day for one of the leagues so that they can keep that up. And. And some people have wondered, is this because of the NFL looming on Sunday and do they want to try to avoid that? I don't know how serious that is, but it does make it tough to build up some. Some drama, some rhythm. I mean, I guess if you're already on tenterhooks, then you stay suspended on those tenter hooks even longer if you're a fan of the Dodgers or Brewers or Cubs or Phillies.
- [38:22]
A
But I feel very relaxed today. So I think the off days are necessary in the fan experience because you gotta. You can't sustain that. Burn yourself out.
- [38:34]
C
But yeah, when you have one game and then the multiple Updates. Okay, sure. Travel days, we get it. But then two off days and three days. You know, you want to get on with it.
- [38:45]
A
Well, and it's not intuitive even as a viewer, right? Because like with the, you know, with the Dodgers Philly series, I had a brief moment where I was like, oh, I'm like a little, at least a little. I get it. But I also am at least a little surprised they're going to Duran here. But then I was like of course they are. They're off tomorrow. What does it matter? Like yeah, yeah, you know, they, he's their best guy. Maintain the, the margin you have and see if you can get some something in against. Okay. How excited are you about Rookie? Like what is your and like how excited are you letting yourself be about Rookie? Because I find myself in a state of internal conflict about the rookie Sasaki closer experience. Because on the one hand I totally get why because they, that bullpen has just been like such garbage lately and their high leverage group is just like been a disaster. And he has looked, he has looked good. He, he looked. He's thrown splitter. He's throwing that splitter at the top of the zone. It's working. It's working really well.
- [39:45]
C
No, it's, it's been nasty. There's triple digit heat and he was great both in the minors and the majors at the end of the season in relief. It's a limited number of outings and, and yeah, we saw him struggle so much at the start of the season and, and even seemed to struggle with his reaction to his struggling a little bit. And so it is also anxiety inducing. If you're a Dodgers fan, I guess you're probably thinking, well, better than Blake Trinen or you know, like better than Kirby Yates. Better than who? Tanner Scott, whoever else would be out here. We might as well roll with it. And it's a great story for Dodgers fans at least if he harnesses this and it is actually good. If you're a Dodgers hater and you've been saying all season that they have broken baseball, well, the Roki Sasaki signing did not seem consequential for most of the season. If he comes back and actually helps them, say win another World Series, then you kind of have the last laugh on that, I suppose. And you know, it is they really have to finesse their way through this because they just don't have dependable late inning regular reliever options. And so it's can you go with Glasnow who they pitched? And you know, he wasn't Great. But to put Glasnow in at a time when I think it made sense because he wasn't going to start for a while, he hadn't started for a while, might as well use him. I've always been a fan, at least in theory, of the using the starter on the throw day gambit. And sometimes you can fall in love with that and maybe overuse it, and probably the Dodgers specifically have done that. But it's always seemed to be like, well, if you could get away with this, it'd be a great little life hack to use this great starter on a day when he's going to throw anyway. I know that throwing in an actual postseason game is different from throwing in a bullpen, but sure, you know, if you can get away with it without affecting that player's performance and impairing the pitcher in subsequent outings, it's not clear that you can, but if you could, it would be great. So do that. And, you know, Kershaw's back there and Sheehan's back there and how many innings, what percentage of relief innings can the Dodgers get from guys who were mostly starters during the season is the question. And it has been fun. Like, as someone who enjoyed following Roki from afar and was excited to see him pitch in the majors and in MLB and to not have that come to fruition at all this season. Yeah, like, you know, I'm still, still a little scared because, like, will the command problems manifest themselves? Can this actually continue? But so far he's looked great.
- [42:19]
A
Yeah, it's, it's been, it's been exciting. It would be, it would be great if it could persist. I will be so fascinated to see like, what kind of, what kind of off season work he gets up to with them. You know, when he just has like a full normal off season where he's not doing the, the free agent song and dance and. Yeah, he can just. Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating.
- [42:42]
C
Yeah. And Passen had a piece at ESPN about his, his road to relief and how that happened. I'll link to that on the show page. But really, like, there wasn't that much to say probably about that initial Brewers Cubs game and the Blue Jays we talked about. I, I do think that the Blue Jays, of course, it's easy to say after they put up a bunch of runs in back to back games, but they do have that quality that the Astros often had during their recent run of, of they can make contact but also hit the ball hard because.
- [43:12]
A
Or they can hit the ball not hard and Then get hit a home run anyway.
- [43:16]
C
That works out too.
- [43:17]
A
That Ernie Clement home run made no sense. Just no sense.
- [43:21]
C
Yeah, they, they definitely had some, some not putting a charge into one and it working out anyway for them. But also they did hit some balls hard and that is something that they've been able to do this season pretty impressively is, is not only strike out less than any other team and hit for a high average by these standards, but also can, can actually hit the ball hard. So it's, it's a little bit different from the Brewers. I often compare the Blue Jays and the brewers and they're somewhat similar in that they don't strike out a whole lot. The Blue Jays are more extreme in that sense, but they didn't hit for the kind of power that the Blue Jays did. Some brewers do. But on the whole, the brewers are much more, let's put it in play and let's get our speed involved and base running and somehow we will beat out these games or force you to make errors. I don't know how they do it, but they do it. Whereas the Blue Jays, they can make contact, but they can also make really hard contact a lot of the time. And that's kind of the best of both worlds. The only other thing I'll say about that Dodgers Game one. Obviously Shohei Ohtani's first MLB postseason pitching performance. So he had a rough day at the plate. He had four strikeouts and a bunch of looking strikeouts on pitches right down the middle where I wondered what he was looking for exactly. I think there's enough of a sample now to at least strongly suggest that he is not as good a hitter on the days that he pitches and even maybe the day immediately after he pitches as he is on other days. I guess maybe the, the day off helps in that respect for them if there is some fatigue factor there. Yeah, but it was a better day for him on the mound, of course, where he did get six. You know, he went six, he got the win. I guess in the end he missed a bunch of bats and was let down by his defense, but picked up by his offense and it was the same guy and it was Tasker Hernandez. That was just an encapsulation of the TE Oscar experience because it can be extremely frustrating, flummoxing and confusing. But then he will get the big blow and make up for it all. And it's just like I've talked before about how he has negative range seemingly somehow in the outfield. And I, I don't like to question people's efforts or, like, throw around, like, lazy. You know, that can be kind of a loaded term when you're talking about players of color, for one thing. But also, you know, you never know what's going on with a guy. And maybe it looks deceptively like there wasn't a high effort there or maybe nursing some injury or. You never know. But that ball, that just, like, split the gap somehow.
- [46:02]
A
I. Look, I'm with you on all of those things. I want to be. There are times, though, where it's like, hey, dude, you've got to, like, have some hustle to that, man. Like, that was wild. That was wild times. And I. I love it. I love it when a guy has, like, just an error, not a. Not an play. I don't love it when guys have errors. To be clear. I'm gonna finish my sentence. But, like, not a play where there is a question of, like, why are you not demonstrating some urgency with your play? Maybe that's a neutral way to describe it. I was surprised by the lack of urgency that DE Oscar Hernandez was demonstrated in that moment. I like Tay Oscar, and he seems like a popular clubhouse guy. I liked him as a Mariner, even though he didn't hit very well because the batter's eye was bothering him. But, like, people seem to like Tay Oscar, and I did wonder about his urgency in that. In that moment.
- [47:04]
C
Yes, that was. That was like an optical illusion. It's like, I saw the ball being hit, and then we switched it. It's like, what? What? That ball's going to the wall.
- [47:14]
A
To be clear, that would have been. That was going to bring in a run no matter what, right? But, like, allowing the trail runner to score. And now Real Motors on third.
- [47:23]
C
Like, real Muto had not tripled for a couple years. I think a triple, either.
- [47:29]
A
I would argue he still hasn't. You know, like, there's some assistance in that one. But I like it when a guy has an actual error and then has redemption later in the game. There's, like, a narrative. But I don't. I. I was. I found myself being like, I don't think you. I don't know if you get to have the narrative redo on this. Like, this wasn't an error. Like, I was. I was rooting so hard. I was like, it would be so cool if Josh Naylor hit a home run, right? Because, like, Naylor had an error in that Sunday game. It ended up leading to two runs. Game is tied. Bad, bad, bad, bad. And I was like, well, maybe he'll homer and then it'll feel, you know, like the weight has been lifted. But if you like, kind of look like you're loafing. I, I just. It was so strange. Yeah, it was so. I. It was so strange. I, I haven't seen slow.
- [48:22]
C
To be clear, he is not fast.
- [48:24]
A
But he could try very hard.
- [48:27]
C
It seemed like a combination of not going peak speed. And I'm the first to say in some contexts that hustle is eyewash or overrated. That's not one of them, though. That's you. You got to go all out in this. I don't know if that was just a misread on his part or what he was thinking or is he thinking Pajes will have a better player, a better thrower. I, I really don't know. But that was quite confounding. And then he comes up any more than makes up for it because he hits a three run over. And yeah, like Sanchez was. Was great, obviously. And it was kind of a hard luck thing for him. And I guess you could maybe criticize there not having been a quicker hook there before Teosco came up. And, you know, you could always do that in retrospect. But Enrique Hernandez was coming up and whether you believe in. In October kike or not, that was a spot where I don't think he's a ghost. No, he's real. He's a corporeal player. Perhaps you almost were. Fortunately not. But yeah, you know, then Hernandez hits the two run double and, you know, things get out of hand. So that felt like a very winnable game for the Phillies that, that felt like one that the Dodgers sort of stole. So that's. That's tough for Phillies fans too. Anyway. Yeah. Entertaining stuff. Entertaining baseball. The Dodgers have their own Duran, seemingly in Sasaki. So we'll see how it goes. Maybe that's. That's pretty much.
- [50:00]
A
And I don't mean it as a. I don't mean to knock. Yeah, I'm just saying let's relax.
- [50:06]
C
Yes, we will see he has that sort of stuff. Whether he does.
- [50:09]
A
Sure.
- [50:10]
C
Oh, shirts. We shall see. All right. Well, we will talk next time about what has befallen these teams in games that will take place after we are recorded. But now we will take a quick break and we'll be back with our pal. It's fun to say that Ben Gibbard, Death Cab for Cutie frontman and Mariners fan.
- [50:47]
B
Effectively wild. Effectively wild a fan Goss baseball podcast Listen our emails that blast dantic baseball TR every weekday. Break down your favorite pastime Sit down, relax and unwind.
- [51:15]
C
Well, Jason Benetti came on last time to talk about the Tigers, so in the interests of equal time, we have brought on someone other than Meg to talk about the Mariners. And who better than Ben Gibbard, best known for his work with Death Cab for Cutie, the Postal Service, the effectively wild outro theme, of course, last and also probably least, but still pretty important, he's also famously a Mariners fan. Hello, Ben. Welcome back. How are you?
- [51:43]
B
I'm doing much better today than I was at this time yesterday. I don't know how people do this. Yeah, I have a friend, two friends who reached out to me yesterday. One is a Giants fan, the other is an Astros fan who has actually been very gracious over the past couple of weeks as we leapfrogged them in the standings. And he was like, how you feel? And I'm like, I feel like I just had too hard attacks in the last 48 hours. Like, oh, what are you doing? Seriously? I was like, hey, man, I don't have practice with this. I have no endurance for this level of sports stress in my life. It's been years since a team I followed was in this position, so I don't have those muscles have atrophied dramatically.
- [52:29]
C
Yeah, you're an ultra runner, so you've got great cardio endurance. You could run untold numbers of miles, probably, and your heart can handle that. But this is something you haven't trained for. And I believe the Mariners last played a postseason game after winning a division title on October 9, 2001. That was when they started the 2001 playoff run, which was also. That was the day that Death Cab released their third lp, the Photo Album. So that's how long ago that was. You just. You just finished tracking your upcoming 11th album. So it's. It's been a while. Now. There was that 2022 interlude, of course, and we talked to you at the time, and I gave you some grief for scheduling a tour during the Mariners 2022 playoff appearance. So I must commend you on not only being off the road right now. You wrapped up your 20th anniversary concerts a while back. I had the pleasure of attending one in Brooklyn. And you even wrapped up your album tracking last week. I don't know whether you planned it that way, but you kind of got everything squared away and ready so that you could fully focus on this playoff run. So how do you take in a Mariners playoff game? Are you watching with other people? Are you watching in isolation so they can't see you Sweat. How does it happen?
- [53:47]
B
Well, I should say in 2001 I was death Cab was on tour for the photo album during those playoffs. And it was 2001, so we couldn't just watch the games on our phones, which didn't exist. And also it was in the shadow of September 11, so it was just kind of a gnarly period to be out on the road anyways. And in 2022, I was on tour, so I couldn't focus as much as I would have liked on those games because I had a job to do. For example, we had played Austin City Limits. I was watching the 18 inning, the beginnings of the 18 inning game on my phone backstage at Austin City Limits. I assumed the game would be over by the time we got off stage. It wasn't. We have dinner plans at 8pm I assumed the game would be over by the time we had dinner. It wasn't. And I found myself just in a hotel room in Austin watching this real, kind of unfortunate for the Mariners, but still exciting playoff game. And in this situation now I find myself in. I have nothing now that the record is tracked, now that the tours are over for the time being, I have nothing to do but just focus on this. And I don't like it. It's just not a good feeling. And I wasn't expecting to be home at this period because the record was supposed to be, was supposed to take a couple more weeks to track. But we, we got done early. So I found myself back in Seattle this past Thursday. It was kind of too late in the game to call in any favors I might be able to call in to get tickets for these games this weekend. I just felt that wouldn't be a cool thing for me to do. It's literally the hottest ticket in town. So I had a wash party at my house. I had a bunch of people over and a couple of those people brought their children. Those children learned some new words coming out of my mouth. I was doing everything I could to maintain composure and to not scare any of my friends or specifically my friend's kids with mixed results. And I think it's just better that I'm inside with people who know me well and that know that I'm not always like this because as I'm sure you guys are aware and anybody listening, this kind of level of high stress sports experiences, it brings out an element of you that you'd rather leave inside.
- [56:21]
A
I had the experience yesterday and I have to confess that I was like, I can go into these, these games with still Some amount of professional remove. And I don't know if being so sick so recently just broke down my defenses or if that's a convenient excuse for the, like, feral animal I descended into this weekend. But I did have a moment during. We're recording this on Monday. I did have a moment during yesterday's game after the. The Tigers had tied it, where I felt like I had sort of transcended my body to a certain extent because I had the awareness to be like, man, if I weren't a fan of either of these teams, this would be like a really great game. I would be like, wow, what a. What an instant classic of a matchup we've gotten here. And then I like, I like, came back into my body and immediately started yelling at Cal Raleigh to, like, have a good at bat because you met your body. You might say, yeah, yeah, sorry. And. And I just, you know, I'm. I'm. I. I feel like I'm like my sister when she's at my niece's soccer games. Like, okay, just a good at bad. Let's just put a good at bat together. It's like he can't hear you. And if he could, he would give you a look to tell you to shut the coffee's trying to work. It is. How do people do this? I'm gonna start eating my hair. And here's the thing. If we get what we want, Ben, there's so much more ahead. This goes on for another month.
- [57:57]
B
I had that exact same thought, and I think I might have said almost the exact same thing yesterday. I was watching. So we watched game one at my house. We lost, so there needed to be a change of venue. So because my house is cursed. So we went to my bandmate Nick Harmer's house. We watched there. They won. So, okay, now we watch at Nick's house. That's where we watch it now. We both looked at each other at some point, was like, if this keeps going, I don't know if. I don't know if I can live like this. I don't know if I can. I don't know if I can live like this. It's. I. I would like to continue living like this because of what it means. But, you know, conversely, I have a friend who I'm a very. Maybe I've mentioned this last time I was on the pod. I'm a very fatalistic sports fan. I'm really not good at this. When they tied the score, I was texting my friends, like, well, it's over. They lost. You know, it's like, no, there's more, there's more game. It's only timed, you know, But I'm such a fatalist. And meanwhile, my friend Torquil Campbell of the band Stars, who is equally as fatalistic as I am, is enjoying his Blue Jays just dog walking the New York Yankees.
- [59:05]
A
Yeah.
- [59:06]
B
And at no point in either of these games has it been stressful for him at all. He literally told me, he texted me yesterday, this is better than Christmas, and I would really love to have one of those games, preferably a clincher in the next couple days. But it's the Seattle Mariners and they are surely not going to make it that easy on me.
- [59:26]
C
Yeah, Meg doesn't know this, but you actually emailed me yesterday, Sunday before the game to say that after what transpired on Saturday and with Skubal pitching on Sunday, if they're down.02, I do not know if I can trust myself going in front of a microphone, speaking to the entire Internet about the Mariners right now. So we might actually have to table this podcast appearance. So I was rooting hard for the Mariners, too, in that game to be. Even though I don't have as strong a rooting interest as you two, I did want to talk to you on the pod, and fortunately they pulled it out.
- [59:58]
B
I really didn't trust myself. I was like, I can't be that guy that the state of the world at this point does not have a lot of, does not hold a lot of space for someone like me screaming about his favorite sports team not doing well. That's just really, in the grand scheme of things, not an important, an important grievance, but. So I too am glad that they won last night for multiple reasons, but also that I get a chance to talk to you guys again.
- [60:26]
A
Yeah, I did, I did say to Lindbergh, I was like, are you really gonna make gibber come on here and talk to us if The Mariners are down 02? You're Blue Jays fan. I, I, I had the experience this weekend of like, you know, that the Preacher meme, where it's like, I've seen what you've done for other people and I want that for me. That was me watching the Blue Jays. I was like, can we please have a, like seven run inning? That sounds like fun. That sounds like a good time. I'm curious, Ben, what was your coming in? Because, you know, they had this great finish to the season. They dethrone the Astros, not only do they win the west, but they get the two seed, they get the Bye. What were your sort of feelings about the team, like the day the season ended? Were you. I know you're fatalistic, but were you feeling like, okay, this is a good, competitive squad, or were you saying, no, they'll never get a hit again? Like, what were your expectations entering this gauntlet we find ourselves in?
- [61:24]
B
As a Mariners fan, I feel I always have to start at the worst possible outcome and then work to backwards into some level of optimism. And where I began, the end of the season, which is a weird way of putting it, but on the last day of the season, I was sitting there going, okay, the Mariners have gone, what, 19 and 5 or something crazy. You guys probably have the numbers in front of you. Over the last month, some guy hired a witch, they started winning, and this has been a thoroughly enjoyable month of baseball for a myriad reasons. Meanwhile, the Tigers have almost entirely collapsed over the months of September, and they have played their worst baseball the whole year right at the end. They almost missed the playoffs after holding a massive lead for most of the season in the division. My first thought was like, okay, so we're going to stop hitting and they're going to start hitting. You know, like, they. There's like, they. They kind of rolled over the Guardians, and I was like, I don't like this at all, because this seems like maybe they're kind of rising back to the level they have been all season, and we are regressing to where we probably should be, which is maybe not as good as we've been. I think safely can say, not as good as we've been over the last month. So that I started at that level of fatalism where it's like, we are on the. We are going down, they are going up. I didn't make too much of the Dodgers series because I kind of felt like, number one, it's the Dodgers. Number two, they just ran a gauntlet and played so well, and they're probably. The competitive fire is probably maybe not where it was four days ago. You know, in game one, when you get six hits from the entire lineup and they are all coming from somebody named Cal or Julio, that's a little concerning, you know, but then, you know, Polanco steps up. Yesterday, two bombs, Julio and Cal once again step up, and, you know, it would be nice to get the rest of the lineup going for a lot of reasons, but, you know, it's playoff baseball. It just. They're. Hopefully an unlikely hero will arise. Maybe like Leo Rivas or something like that. Who knows? You know?
- [63:42]
C
Yeah. Polanco Hitting two home runs off not only a lefty, but the best lefty. I didn't necessarily see that coming. So that was an unlikely hero to some extent. Is there anything that would satisfy Mariners fans, let's say they don't win the World Series. Let's contemplate that sad outcome, as I know you've both been contemplating it from the start. Is there anything where, after you get past the initial disappointment, you would look back and say, you know, what successful season we actually won the division for once we beat the Astros. It looked for a time like we might blow that and we might not make the playoffs at all. Okay, we did that. Would it be having to win a pennant for the first time? Is that what it would take to say successful season? Or can you kind of put it in perspective after you get over the initial grief of the loss, which, to be clear, I hope for your sakes does not come.
- [64:35]
B
No. But 29 of 30 teams go home disappointed at the end of the day. So the odds are. The odds are. Most are that your team was most likely going to be one of those 29. Of course, obviously, it goes without saying that winning the World Series would be unbelievable. Winning a pennant for the first time would also be. I think that would be. Getting over that hurdle would mean a lot to the fan base. But after almost 50 years of mediocrity here in Seattle, we have conditioned ourselves for the little victories. And the little victories are like, you know, carrying Junior and Ichiro on a team's shoulders around the stadium after they've missed the playoffs on the last day of the season by, like, a long shot. You know, these are the kind of things that we revel in here in Seattle. So I think that to have won the division and more importantly, to have dethroned the Astros, I think when all is said and done, regardless of how far they go, will be remembered fondly. And, you know, after the initial sadness and despair of. Of being bounced by whomever it. You know, we are. We will be. We are most likely to be bounced by. Just because that's what the numbers say, the probability says. I guess I should say. I think that. I think that will be something we'll look forward to. But I also believe that as I. I think, as I feel a lot of Mariners fans do, this is the best team we've had in 25 years. And there are holes, of course, and you would love the pitching staff to be fully healthy and to be firing on the cylinders they were firing on a couple of years ago or Even last year. But, you know, especially in the American League, there are, there are no juggernauts. Blue Jays seem like they're kind of turning into one at the right time, but there doesn't seem to be an air of inevitability with any of the remaining teams in the American League. And that, you know, that that's what's giving me, you know, a sliver of hope that we can win a pennant.
- [66:40]
A
It would be nice. I mean, obviously I'd prefer that they just win the World Series, but I think that one of the, the rough things about being a Mariners fan is how often they show up in non baseball contexts when, when another sport is trying to put like a bad team in their sport's futility into context. Right. So it's like you'll be watching a football game and you're like, why are, why are the Mariners being mentioned right now? What, why am I getting like whacked in the head out of the clear blue nowhere? Because like the, the Browns have been bad. That doesn't seem like it should be my problem right now. I got my own problems. Right. And so I, I think that one of the benefits of them even just reaching the World Series is like the number of, of little lists that they're on that some producer in the Fox van is going to remember when it's like, oh, yeah, what was another bad team? I don't need to see them in that context so much, you know, I just don't. And so the number of little lists, they can check themselves off, I think that's, it's its own kind of success. It's a small success, you know, relative to other things like winning the World Series. But it's not, not a success. The number of days I can just like be left alone when watching other failed franchises. That'd be nice. I would like that. You know.
- [68:02]
B
Yeah. I mean, who else. What fan base has. When they have expressed their fandom for their team, had their faces laughed in? I have.
- [68:13]
A
Yeah.
- [68:13]
B
I have. And you know, there aren't a lot of, there aren't a lot of fan bases in the four major sports, American sports, they get laughed at by car service guys. When you say you're from Seattle, an Americans fan.
- [68:27]
C
Right.
- [68:28]
B
Or a cabby or whatever it might be. So, yeah, just to, to get an opportunity to establish a little respect in the general sports world is long overdue for us here.
- [68:44]
C
Yeah. And I don't know if this is better or worse, but when it's not even mocking, when it's More like commiseration or condolences, like I'm a Mariner's friend. Ooh, sorry about that, buddy. You know, that kind of thing. Maybe that hurts worse.
- [68:57]
B
I've had that one before, too. Yes, and that. But you know what? This is that I was born in Bremerton, Washington. I was born into this mess. And I am a loyal person, arguably to a fault, but I'm a firm believer in you are born into the regional franchise you are born into and you have an obligation to support that franchise. Maybe I say that because I am a Mariners fan. It would be so much easier to just jump around to whomever was the dominant team at the time. Some friends of mine were coming over from Bremerton for the Dodgers Mariner series and were commenting on just how many Dodgers fans were on the ferry from Bremerton to Seattle. Now that. Let's just take into account the fact that there are a lot of people who've moved up here from California.
- [69:46]
A
Yeah.
- [69:47]
B
And they should, you know, they should. We don't have. If anybody listening in California who's contemplating a move to Seattle, just let me tell you. We don't have any more room. It's full. Just stay where you are. Stay down there. It's beautiful. Big Sur, San Francisco, Louisiana. It's great. Sadly, there's no more room, but it is not possible that so many long time Dodgers fans could live in Bremerton, Washington and the on the Olympic Peninsula. It is not possible that that many Dodgers fans have existed there in time memoriam. These are, these are bandwagon jumpers. These are fake fans. And that makes me upset because we were born into this goddamn team and we have to support it.
- [70:42]
C
Ben Gibbard, Gatekeeping Mariners fandom I'm just.
- [70:46]
A
Saying, if you've like endured and my, my dad's family's from Bremerton, I'm allowed to say this. If you've endured Kitsap, like, just stick with it. What are we doing? Come on.
- [70:54]
B
Like, yeah, I mean, come on. You got, you guys get this. You guys get the Seahawks. They. They want a Super Bowl. You know, we got that together. We're not entire. You know, we had. The Storm has won four championships. The Sounders are great. You know, we have some sports success here. Just hasn't. It hasn't. It hasn't arrived on, on a baseball field.
- [71:11]
C
Well, you said this was the best mariners team in 25ish years. So what did you enjoy about this season? Did you like the Depot deals in the middle of the year? Who were the players you most enjoyed following, because they can't take that away from you. Whatever happens this month, that season is in the books. And that's most of the baseball season is the regular season. And it was a good one, certainly by Mariner standards.
- [71:36]
B
I mean, I feel obligated to choose something other than Cal Rawley's march to 60 home runs and his emergence as a superstar. I was a fan of this player before he was on the Mariners. But when Josh Naylor arrived in Seattle, I have some friends who work for the team, and I don't have any influence with the team, but every time Josh Naylor would do something incredible, I would be like, you guys have to sign this guy right now. I'm serious. Like, I'm serious. This guy's baseball IQ is off the charts. He's, you know, he's making a lot of contact. He's hitting for power. He oddly, is an amazing baserunner. I still don't understand how that works. I'm sure you guys, this is what you guys do for a living. And I'm not sure you could explain it either. You know, an error yesterday aside, he's been pretty solid at first base. He's an incredibly strange person. He doesn't seem to smile or be enjoying himself at any point other than wearing a hockey jersey. Because he's Canadian, I suppose. I mean, there was some video that was up online last month where they got him this fancy glow in the dark crack jersey, and he was like a five year old on Christmas. And I was just like, I love this strange person, that we need more baseball weirdos out there, you know, and he is a baseball weirdo, and I have thoroughly enjoyed having him on the team, and I hope that they're able to sign him in the off season.
- [73:01]
A
What is your impression of Dan Wilson.
- [73:03]
C
As a manager, and is it better after Sunday than it was on Saturday?
- [73:09]
B
You know, I'll make an observation about Dan Wilson that is kind of humorous before I kind of dive into my feelings about him as a manager. I've met him before. He's a very sweet and kind man, whether in person or on the broadcast, when he was working on the broadcast team, he's just this very cheerful, handsome, radiant man. And you cut to him in the dugout and he looks like somebody just killed his dog. He just has this stern look on his face and he's got his chin down. He's kind of looking over the down, the brim of his hat, and he looks very serious and very much in thought and it's such a contradiction to the Dan Wilson that we as Mariner fans have known, as much as we could know anybody for the past 30 years or whatever. When he was hired, I found it to be a dubious hire, especially because he had never managed before at any level. I think, if I'm recalling correctly, and last season was last season, there have been a number of choices, certainly in the last, over the weekend, that just made no sense to me. And there have been some games the Mariners lost throughout the season that were kind of determined by equally puzzling choices. Could the Mariners benefit with a more experienced manager? Yes, I'm sure they could, but at the end of the day, I'm kind of one of those people who believes that the players play the game. And I mean, I'm not being snarky. I'm being serious. That's like everybody's going up there trying to hit the ball, and every pitcher is going up there trying to strike everybody out or induce weak contact or whatever it might be. And I say this now, something horrible could happen the next couple days. It might change my mind. But if the game arrives at a place where a manager's decision is going to determine winning or losing the game, oftentimes that's because the players aren't doing their jobs. So, you know, I want to. I want to see out the rest of the season before I make a judgment call on if. Whether he's a good or a bad manager. But he's certainly not an experienced manager, and being thrown into a contending team and the high stakes of pitchers becoming more expensive and free agents and everything else, it's, you know, this is their window to win. So, yes, it's an odd choice to go with someone that inexperienced at this juncture, but the Mariners won the division, so. And they're. They're currently two games away from moving on the next round of the playoffs. So let's, let's. Let's let this play out.
- [75:43]
C
Yeah, I guess what you want with an inexperienced manager is, is for him to learn from his mistakes. And I guess maybe you could say that he's done that within this series. He at least made a different decision, presented with similar circumstances, because game one, Game two, some of the pivotal decisions happened in the top of the fifth, right, with a one nothing lead and Carrie Carpenter coming up. And in the first game, he let George Kirby stay in to face Carpenter. Carpenter hit a home run, as he often does. He has just enormous platoon splits. And then the second time around, he did not leave Luis Castillo in to face Carpenter, he brought in Gabe Spire, who made quick work of Carpenter. So that was better. Right? It's not exactly the same circumstances and the same picture and everything, but. But very similar. And of course you don't want to overreact to. If you are actually making the right decision and it backfires, then in theory you should make that decision again and hope for better results. But I think leaving Castillo in two faced Carpenter there, that would have been a big oopsie. And he did not do that, so.
- [76:49]
A
Didn't do it.
- [76:50]
C
Yeah. Progress, growth, learning.
- [76:52]
B
I agree. And at this point, I think I would trust Gabe Spire with my life. I mean, just all season long, he's just been absolutely nails. Conversely, I don't think we should be putting Vargas in for any high leverage situations moving forward if we can. If we can avoid it on Saturday. I get it. You know, it's the first playoff game. It's at home, his first playoff game. By all accounts, he was just pulling the ball, throwing it all over the place. It just seemed like the moment was. The moment got to him. And other decisions, it cost the Mariners up.
- [77:31]
A
I think it's better for what I said when Spire did not come in on Saturday to be lost to time and like the echoes of my own living room, I think that's probably better so I don't end up on a list.
- [77:43]
C
Yeah. And it was impressive to see Andres Munoz, who. Maybe this is a reflection of the fact that relievers are kind of babied in this era relative to earlier eras, that this was like an Ironman marathon performance for him to throw two whole innings in one day and then come back and throw another inning the next day. But that was. That was pretty gutsy given that he has not been asked to do that. And it looked like he was feeling the effects on Sunday because his fastball was down a couple ticks. And then he was basically like, what if I just spam sliders? Maybe that will work if I did. Yeah.
- [78:16]
A
And it did.
- [78:17]
C
Yeah.
- [78:17]
A
The thing is. It did.
- [78:18]
C
It did.
- [78:19]
A
That's a nice thing.
- [78:20]
C
Yeah, it is.
- [78:21]
B
It is one of those. I do, obviously I want this season to continue all the way to a World Series and winning it. But I think. And maybe I'm just about. I'm just about to say this because this is my team and maybe everybody feels this way about their team, but I have certainly rooted for very unlikable Mariners teams with some very unlikable people. I really like everybody on this roster as far as I'm as much as I can possibly know them and, dare I say, want to know them. So when Munoz gets up there was put in the game yesterday. A friend of mine, works with the team, was like, I think we're going with Brash and Munoz tonight. I was like, oh, my God. It's incredible. It's like some insider information. This is exciting. If it gets in the game, we're gonna see Brat. We're gonna see Brash again. We're gonna see Munoz. And, you know, by all accounts, Munoz is just a wonderful human being.
- [79:13]
C
Yeah.
- [79:13]
B
And that makes a player's triumphs even that much. Even that much more enjoyable, and it makes their failures even that much more painful, you know, And I was just really glad to see Munoz. Well, for. For many reasons, but as. As a human being, I was really excited to see him succeed last night.
- [79:34]
C
It's probably hard to talk about anything other than the Mariners right now, but is there anything else that has caught your attention in baseball this season? Since we haven't had you on this season, I wonder what else you were tracking, or are there other teams that you would be interested in watching right now if they weren't potential opponents for the Mariners? How was baseball at large for you this year? I'm sure that's heavily dictated by how the Mariners did, which was well. But did you enjoy the rest of the season?
- [80:02]
B
I did. I mean, so much has gone on to try to encapsulate and catch up.
- [80:09]
C
Take us back to April.
- [80:11]
A
Yeah.
- [80:11]
C
How about May? Yes.
- [80:12]
B
You know, I, I, I have some very close friends who are Padres and Brewers fans, and I don't believe that you can truly have a second team. And I. I won't say that I bandwagoned either of those teams, but moving into the playoffs, I was. I was really sad to see the Padres get bounced because I. My friend who's a Padres fan has been in so many ways suffering kind of the same way that Mariners fans have. Not to the extent, of course, just based on the pedigree. And they've been to the playoffs certainly more than we have, and have at least gone to the World Series. But there is a similar level of looking, I think Padres fans have been looking up at the dodgers for forever. 14 of last 15 seasons or something like that. 13 of the last 14. Something like that. We have been looking up at the Astros for the last 10 years. We have been bonded in our underdog status in regards to our sports teams, and so I enjoyed watching them this season. I was glad to get Mason Miller out of the AL west for a while. And also with the. I'm really enjoying watching the brewers and. And it was very satisfying to see them, you know, what they did to the Cubs a couple of days ago. No offense, Cubs fans, but I feel that if it would be possible to bandwagon a National League team, the brewers would be acceptable because they are technically a Seattle team, right? Yeah, they are. They began as a Seattle team. Granted, it was six years before I was born. Seven years, actually. But one can make a case that as a Mariners fan, if the Mariners, God forbid, are bounced and the brewers are still in the playoffs, that you can transfer your fandom over to the brewers, which I plan on doing.
- [82:09]
C
Yeah, I did ask Meg about that because I am curious about just karmically, who deserves it more, Just which franchise is more benighted? Are the Mariners owed a World Series more than the brewers are? Because the brewers have been around even longer, but then again, they have won a pennant at least. Like, if it comes down to Mariners, brewers, then I guess either way, someone wins for the first time, which is nice for a neutral person to root for. And then if a Mariners fan, if the Mariners lost to the brewers, let's say, would that be more heartbreaking because, oh, they just got what we wanted all this time. They are just like us and we came so close and we had to watch them celebrate. Or would it be some slight consolation? Because, okay, if we had to lose, at least it was another team that had suffered and put their time in and sort of deserved it and had at least a tenuous Seattle connection, too.
- [83:03]
B
If we ended up with a Brewers, Mariners, World Series and the Mariners lost, I would be gutted, of course, and I would hate the brewers. But after a little bit of time, I would hate the brewers for beating us. But I would know deep down in my heart and eventually come to the conclusion that it is in my mind, as a fan of a perennial underdog, it is always more exciting, it is always more rewarding to see a team that has never won something win something. It just is. Or that it had been like, if the Guardians had gone to the World Series and won it, that would be fulfilling. What is not fulfilling and very annoying is just is seeing that, oh, lo and behold, the Dodgers are at full strength at this very moment. And I respect the Dodgers. I am at my core, like every baseball fan. I too wish that my team had unlimited resources and such, such skilled scouting and development departments. But it is just. It's really. It's really annoying, you guys. It's really annoying. It's really annoying. And. And because this is. This is never gonna end. It just, it seems this is, this is, this feels like a situation where they have, they have cracked the code and they have the kind of owners that are. They are never going to okay a rebuild. There's never going to be a rebuild in Los Angeles. And, man, I was really hoping for one of those one and done playoff series with the Dodgers just to get them out of the way so we can move on to other business. It looks like it might happen. Not necessarily one and done, but two and done. It looks like that might happen with the Yankees. I certainly hope. I certainly hope that it will. But then if that were to happen, if the Mariners were to move on now, I. Now, my friend Torque and I, I are not allowed to speak for 10 days and maybe even for weeks after that. And I like talking to Torque, you know, so there's just no winning here unless you win the whole thing, you know?
- [85:15]
C
Yeah, no, it's true. If, if they were to win the whole thing, do you think you could be coaxed back into the studio for some sort of celebratory recording? Because you did actually release Ichiro's Theme this year, and we got some emails from people saying, hey, you want to check out this new Ben Gibbard baseball song? He wrote a song about Ichiro. And of course, it was not a new song, but it was newly released and newly streaming, et cetera. And on a previous podcast appearance, I had tried to talk you into covering your own Etro's theme for Julio, because it would scan the same and you could just say, go, go, go, go, Julio. And you said Julio deserved his own song, which is fair, of course, but do you have another in the chamber? Do you think that your joy, should the Mariners win, would be expressed in song?
- [86:02]
B
I never say never. People do some pretty crazy things with their sports fandom after their team has won a championship or some, you know, it happens. So. But at the end of the day, you know, I mean, I was talking my Padres friend off a ledge when they were eliminated, and I was trying to remind him. I was like, hey, man, your life is amazing. You have an amazing family. You do exactly what you want to do for a living. You know, he was a professional runner and then became an agent. He's a sports agent. He has this amazing family. He, you know, he's everything. And this is just your cross to bear and like, to being a fan of this team. They did provide you some joy, and he's Like, I know. I know. And. And I. Then I followed up with. And I'm really only telling you this because I need to hear myself say it to myself if this doesn't go the way I want it to. And look, you know, I've said to a number of my friends, maybe even on this podcast before, to you guys as individuals, when we spend time together, I feel so fortunate in my life to be able to do this thing that I do for a living and to have the people in my life that I do. If, at the end of the day, the Seattle Mariners are the, at least to date, the largest source of. Of constant pain and abuse in my life, I'm doing pretty well, you know, all things considered. So I say that now, and I'm saying it again to anybody, everybody listening, so they hear me say it. But there will be meltdowns, and there already have been, and there will continue to be. And this is just. This is just the weird and unfortunate part of being a sports fan. How could something that ultimately means nothing mean so much? It doesn't make. It doesn't make sense, and I'll never understand it.
- [87:58]
C
I have one more pitch for you. So you've been asked about your band name umpteen times. Maybe not so much anymore, but back in the early days, I'm sure you were absolutely sick of answering the Death Cab for Cutie. What does that mean? Question. And in one of the countless answers you provided, you said that if you had known that this ban would be big and it would be used for almost 30 years now, that you probably would have chosen something else. Maybe something more obvious, perhaps, and maybe almost 30 years in, it's a little late for a rebrand, seemingly, but it's not unprecedented. You know, you've got your. Your British sea powers becoming sea power, your Dixie Chicks becoming the Chicks. So with the 11th album rolling out, what would you say to Death? Cow for Cutie. Okay.
- [88:49]
A
Okay.
- [88:50]
C
Or even just Cal for Cutie. If you want to change the initials, you could. You could keep Death and just keep all the merch that you've made already. But what do you think?
- [88:58]
B
I think. I think I'm gonna stick with. I think I'm gonna stick with what we got here, Ben. I think. I think this is working better for us. And, you know, over the course of the. The course of the next couple days, my goal is just to not do what that guy did on the. We saw it on the Internet after the Seahawks lost the second super bowl.
- [89:19]
C
The.
- [89:19]
B
We call it the bad super bowl when, when the interception at the two yard line. And then he ran through his tv. I don't know if you've seen this footage. He had one of those big projection TVs and he just did a loop around his living room and just ran through the middle of the tv. And whenever I start getting overly emotional watching the Mariners, I think about that and I think it's not that important. Don't get this mad.
- [89:44]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it would help. My primary problem with it is that my mom babysits sometimes when my wife and I go to concerts and it's nice to have a free babysitter. But whenever we tell her which band we're seeing, there's always an eye roll whenever it's an unusual name. So like, yeah, we're, we're going to see Sloth Rust, we're going to see Wet Legs, we're going to see Death Cab. And she does the like eye roll like kids these days or something. And it's like your generation started this. Like Death Cab comes from a Bonzo Dog doo dah band song. Like this is your generation, not mine. But she's always, you know, given us some lip about the band names or, or at least a little side eye. And I guess going from Death Cat to Death Cal wouldn't actually help. And probably you should stick with your established brand but just as a way of expressing your, your, your gratitude to one of the guys who got you here.
- [90:33]
B
Yeah, well, I mean there will be a lot of gratitude expressed in, in ways that we can not even begin to imagine if these guys do win a World Series. So let's, let's keep our fingers crossed that and, and, and try to keep our blood pressures as low as possible over the next couple of days.
- [90:49]
C
Yes, please don't have a heart attack for real only sort of heart attack. While we always enjoy listening to you, whether you are singing about something or talking about baseball or both, in the case of Ichiro's Theme. So we hope to talk to you again either when this suggest completed album comes out or when the Mariners win a World Series, whichever comes first. Thank you, Ben.
- [91:11]
B
Of course. And yes, we will do this again, hopefully sooner than later.
- [91:15]
C
All right. Talking to Ben reminded me that back in August I saw one of the death cab plans 20th anniversary shows in Brooklyn at the Paramount. And afterward I messaged Ben to compliment him on the performance. And he wrote back and at the end he said, glad you guys could make it. Goms G O M S all caps and For a while there I was thinking goms. What is goms? I showed it to my wife. She didn't know what GOMS was. I was googling goms. It was things that would not make sense in that context. Then all of a sudden it dawned on me. Something that probably every Mariners finn would have realized immediately. Go M's of course go Ms. Not goms. It's just there is no hashtag in the message and every letter was capitalized realized. I felt pretty silly when that finally dawned on me. Little slow on the uptake, but always great to get some double barreled Ben action on the podcast after we recorded both the Dodgers and the brewers went up 2 nothing in their respective series over the Phillies and Cubs. The Dodgers game was a pitcher's duel until it wasn't a brilliant Blake Snell. Some intriguing, shall we say, managerial moves on both sides. Roki Sasaki finally was summoned to record the last out and nail it down after Dave Roberts probably made it a bit more interesting than he had to by calling on Blake Tran. It almost got away from them. We'll have to talk about some of those managerial decisions the next time we pod one of the injured guys we discussed. Will Smith pinch hit and had a big hit and then came in to catch. And in the Cubs brewers game, which was a homer fest, another of the injured guys we discussed, Jackson Chio, actually started and hit a three run homer. We got playoff miz multiple multi run homers in that game. I did mean to say that against a guy like Skubal, you can hope to manufacture a run, but your best bet might actually be the short sequence offense of just having Jorge Polanco pop one or or preferably two. Then you don't have to try to string together a bunch of batters reaching base, which is tough to do against a guy like that. Much more to discuss next time. But just one more thing, as Columbo used to say Last week I solicited responses from Guardians fans. I asked, hey Guardians fans, how you feeling? Because what a weird trajectory your team took. You pull off one of the all time great comebacks only to be bounced immediately by the team you overtook in that division race. Are you just happy to have been there? Is the comeback spoiled? Well, I got some good responses. Taking the pulse of the Guardians fandom here, patreon supporter Scott said on our effectively wild Discord group. Yeah, it very much was playing with house money. The pitching was great in the second half, but the lineup was genuinely bad all year. And what made the streak fun was how unlikely it was for this bunch to pull it off. It's arguably the best stretch of baseball this team has played since the 2017 win streak, and that roster was loaded with talent several magnitudes better than the 2024 team was looking at. The team as a whole, stealing the division and getting a playoff berth very much felt like a reward for fans after putting up with three quarters of a truly hard season, arguably the worst a lot of fans that are millennial aged and younger had ever seen from this franchise. I know for me personally, the losing combined with the gambling investigation made me question my fandom in a way I hadn't in a long, long time. That's how bad it got. And then I and many others were inexplicably sucked back in by this miraculous run run. There's still some disappointment in not finishing off the Tigers and at least getting to the ds. Also getting eliminated at home for the seventh time in their last eight playoff appearances sucked. Very tired of that, but I don't think anyone really thought this bunch would get very far. I feel pretty confident that the Guardians would have been stomped by the Mariners and that would have been that. There seems to be a lot of optimism for next year, for whatever that's worth. Ultimately, the looming specter of the title drought makes it tough regardless, and as long as the Dolans are running the show, it's hard to expect any drastic roster improvements. So it'll probably end up just being more of the same for the future. Tldr there's melancholy, but not outright sadness or anger. Maybe Chase Delater and Travis Pizzana can lead us to the promised land next year. Seems similar in tone to other responses. Listener and Patreon supporter Sydney said I am increasingly regular season pilled since it's the vast majority of the baseball I consume and feels drastically undervalued in broader baseball discourse. Nothing that happens in the playoffs takes away from the fact that the Guardians achieve something unprecedented by overcoming the Tiger. Over 162 games, the Guardians won more games than Detroit, which means more to me than the outcome of a three game sample. I am, however, increasingly of the opinion that there is no good way to include wild card teams in a postseason. If I were the God Emperor of baseball, once expansion happens, I would realign to four divisions per league and only the winner of each division would make the playoffs. Is that unfair to teams in tougher divisions? Maybe, but as long as there are divisions, winning them should be the goal. Patreon supporter Charlie says the short version is that I'm really just kind of glad that we got something exciting this season after a pretty mediocre middle stretch. Sure I was bummed when it happened, but ultimately I never expected to get here. And making that kind of comeback and having our long awaited premier prospect debut in the postseason means that this will be a season to remember for a long while. That's definitely not how everyone feels, but I see genuinely no world in which this team could do anything to Seattle. I mean, we entered the postseason with a negative run differential. You guys nailed it with the house money sentiment. At least for me. It feels a lot like the Browns picking up Joe Flacco in 23:3, making a crazy run to sneak into the playoffs and then getting immediately bounced. Cleveland just does this. I suppose my biggest concern is that Paul Dolan has basically no reason to do anything but cut payroll year after year. If we keep making it work with him selling and not signing, why decrease your margins if it's working out? Just don't look at any metrics other than the ones sitting in the wins column. Final thoughts are that it's weird to be 63 over the Tigers in the past three weeks and be out anyway. Lastly, it being a division rivalry, fans on both ends have found plenty of ways to brag. You hang a banner for winning the division and comeback erased are seen in myriad forms back and forth over and over on Twitter. But hey, at least we can actually say nobody believed in us with a straight face, I guess. And finally, Patreon supporter Tom Big picture. The race down the stretch was a blast and I'm very happy they made the playoffs even though they lost in the first round. Definitely more fun than if they had trudged along around.500 or even gone on a run but just missed the playoffs. As far as losing in the first round, I see most playoff series as coin flight flips, so while I would rather have won, not a big deal. Guardians had plus one run differential on the series, so it's easy to see how sequencing mattered more than just about anything else in determining the outcome. I am a bit annoyed at how many people are badmouthing the Guardians as a bad playoff team as well as calling the Central divisions weak as a whole. Both Central sent more teams to the playoffs than at least one other division in their league, and there were more Central teams than west or east teams, 5 out of 12. If anything, it seems like the AL west and NL east were the weakest division. I don't know. I guess I would judge divisions based on how they did against teams not in their division. Maybe more so than number of teams sent to the playoffs. But I see what Tom's saying. I do wonder, he continues, in closing, if the Guards front office has figured out something about winning games that isn't well understood by public analysts. They've exceeded their expected win loss record three of the past four years and this year significantly doing so with a negative run differential. They win a lot of close games and lose some blowouts. Is there some secret sauce leading to these results or just good luck?
- [98:10]
A
Luck?
- [98:10]
C
I'd like to think the former, but I don't know. Neither do I, Tom. Neither do I though I guess I'm gonna go with luck most of the time combined in Cleveland's case with a lights out bullpen. That doesn't hurt. Another thing that doesn't hurt, in fact it helps. It heals is when people sign up to support the podcast on Patreon, which they can do by going to patreon.com effectivelywild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get themselves access to some purchase perks, as have the following five listeners Peter Koenig, Alex Pavlock, Will Wittes, Elisa Rapatis, and Rob Kimbrough. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams coming up soon now that Meg can mostly speak again, exact timing tbd. Stay tuned. Other Patreon perks include personalized messages, autograph books, potential podcast appearances, ad free Fangrass membership memberships, discounts on merch and more. Check out all the offerings@patreon.com effectivelywild if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastangraphts.com youm can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Music and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group@facebook.com group effectivelywild. You can find the effect of the wild song subreddit at R Effectivelywild, and you can check the show notes and fan graphs or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we cited today. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode later this week. Talk to you then.
- [99:42]
B
If baseball were different, how different would it be?
- [99:47]
C
And if this thought haunts your dreams.
- [99:50]
B
Well, stick around and see what Ben.
- [99:52]
A
And Meg have to say.
- [99:55]
C
Philosophically and pedantically, it's effectively wild.
- [100:05]
A
Effectively.
- [100:07]
B
Wow.