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Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast
Effectively Wild Episode 2385: Must-Win Shame
01:44:17
Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about the rampant overuse of the phrase “must-win game,” denying late timeouts, the Blue Jays’ victory over the Yankees, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., a Yankees postmortem, Aaron Judge’s partial postseason redemption,
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- [00:00]
A
Lets play ball. It's effectively wild. It's effectively wild. It's effectively wild. Hello and welcome to episode 2385 of Effectively Wild Baseball podcast from Fangraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindberg of the Ringer, joined by Meg Riley of Fan Grafts. Hello Meg.
- [00:28]
B
Hello.
- [00:29]
A
Well, in the postseason it's always important to specify when we are recording so that you can situate us in time and amid the series that are ongoing here. So we are talking Thursday afternoon eastern time at least Wednesday we had four games which was fun the last time that we'll have more than two games in a day this season and all four were potential clinchers, though only one of them actually turned out to be a clincher. So we are recording now prior to two more potential clinchers, both NLDS game fours games four Game fours games four I have to say. So we had a bunch of teams that actually were facing must win games on Wednesday because if they did not win they would have been eliminated. However, we're getting this must win game creep which I think I have probably brought up before. But I've been noticing it more and more where people try to heighten the stakes of games that already have high stakes. I know it's the post season, it's short series is best of five. Every game is important. We know that going in. It's not like any game is just sure, whatever. I guess we could afford to lose that one, but people just want to build it up into being even bigger than it is. I'm going to pick on Jeff Passon here just for a second. I'm sure he wouldn't mind. He tweeted something on Monday which was after game two of the Dodgers Phillies series. Yeah, and the Phillies had lost game one and then they lost game two. Not good. That's not a good thing for the Phillies. That means that they only have one loss to play with. But Jeff's tweet at the end of this was final. Dodgers 4, Phillies 3 in a must win game. Philadelphia scored two in the ninth but couldn't scratch across the most important run with Roki Sasaki logging a one out save. A must win game for the Phillies ends in a crushing loss. The Dodgers have now won nine straight.
- [02:36]
B
So but it wasn't a must win.
- [02:38]
A
It was clearly self evidently not a must win game. If it was a must win game then that would have been the end of the series and they would not have had to play any additional games. Yeah, he thought this was so important to Point out that it was a must win game. That he said it twice. Twice back to back sentences, called this a must win game. And look, I'm sure that he would concede that this was for effect, that this was for added drama, but it's just so clearly not a must win game. It was an important game. It was. Would really like to win this game. Game. It was sure would be good for us if we won this one game. But it was not a must win game, as evidenced by the. That they then played another game after that and the Phillies won that game.
- [03:25]
B
That game was a must win game.
- [03:27]
A
That was a must win game for the Phillies. It was a must win game and they won it. Yeah. And then they get to continue to play. So. But I've seen this sort of thing just all week. It seems like whether people are actually labeling things explicitly a must win game or just saying like this felt like. Now I understand if you say it felt like a must win game. Okay, sure. As long as you're conceding that it was not actually one, I'm okay with that. But really, it's not a western game.
- [03:56]
B
I'm with you. I think it's without the qualification of it having like a vibe that feels away but isn't technically true. I think it needs to be reserved for actual elimination games. I think you're right that there is some creep here also. And I can say this because Jeff makes a lot more money than I do, so I can offer him some feedback and it's not punching down. I want to share my biggest pet peeve, stylistic pet peeve in writing.
- [04:26]
A
Okay.
- [04:27]
B
I think people are a little too loose with repetition in close proximity. You gotta tighten up guys, like across the board, every. Everybody. And I. I'm so fortunate to work with such talented writers at fan graphs and even they will get a little loose. And I have to go, can we try to break this up? We try some different phrasing. This is like in close proximity now. It can be done for effect and it can be done well. And. And there are times where I'll get it and I'm like, that's what this is. And I leave it be. I don't even raise it as a question. I'm not even searching for synonyms. No, no. I'm like effect, like it. But sometimes I'm just like, you're. You're wearing me out with it, you know, And I understand this is a tweet, you know, this is like a dashed off kind of a proposition, even for a Scoopsman like Jeff Friend that he is.
- [05:25]
A
Yep.
- [05:26]
B
Just like pay a little mind to how it would sound, you know, to the ear. So yeah, that's an issue also, albeit a less important one to this particular endeavor than.
- [05:36]
A
But if you're, if you're combining both of our here and you're repeating must win game when it wasn't one, that's just the ultimates. And yeah. And so especially because it's a best of five series and so I understand how if it's a best of seven and you go down 03, well, you're almost certainly screwed. It's not definitely must win. We know there's one famous slash infamous historical example where a team came back from being down.03 in a best of seven. But when it's a best of five, it's not that hard to come back. I mean, I know it's, it's rare when you go down O2 and there was the stats circulating that it's like, you know, 89% of the time. I think a team that goes up 20 ends up winning the best of five, which as Joe Posniewski pointed out, does not actually suggest that there's momentum or anything because if you had a 50, 50 coin flip like your, your odds of it coming down a certain way three times in a row is like 88 percents that it, that it won't do that. And so it's essentially just, it's a coin flip. It's basically 50, 50 trials. And so feels though. Yeah, no, it doesn't show that There's, I think when people cite that they, they are trying to suggest, you know, not just the math of, of being down 02 and the other team has to win one game and you have to win three. That's just difficult. But also I think there's a suggestion, maybe an implication that there's a demoralization that's happening there or there's momentum or whatever. It really, if anything that stat argues against that because teams come back just about as often as you would expect by chance. And, and you might think that the team that goes up to nothing might actually be the better team typically. And so you, you'd expect it to be a little bit higher. Anyway, the point is it's not that hard to come back from being down 02. You just have to win three games in a row. Teams win three games in a row all the time. I know it's a little harder against a good postseason opponent, but it's not so far fetched. Think you even need to reach for must win. So I just think in the short series, it's just. It's not that imperative.
- [07:50]
B
I think you are perhaps now tilting too far into ignoring how it feels, though, because if you're down, well, first of all, if you're down to the every you, you're in all must wins. You got no, you got no looseness, you got no margin for it after that. You are after that. So like, so there's that reality to contend with. And then it does just feel lousy. You're on edge. You know, every, every potential lead change is catastrophic. You know, So I just slow your roll on that one a little bit, I think.
- [08:31]
A
Yeah, I'm fine with making it a blanket policy that when it's not a must win game, we need not call it a must win game or we should not call it a must. I just think it's. It's even more evident that it's not must win in a short series when you have fewer games to win in order to come back. So I know that this is for effect. And it's like when people say literally and they don't mean literally, and it's just a figure of speech and, and that annoys some people and other people are just like, get over it. Like, language evolves and you know, they don't mean literally. Literally. Literally. And you understand what they mean. And that's probably what's happening here too. But we just, we don't need to reach for that higher register of drama because it's already inherently dramatic. Yeah, the stakes are high. We all understand that the stakes are high, that you can't just afford to lose games willy nilly that it becomes more difficult to come back. Anyway, I'm now, in a sense, almost rooting for the Phillies to come back and win the series purely to show that it was not, in fact, a must win game, that they could still win the series despite having lost that game.
- [09:39]
B
That sounds really good. Because what people like the best is when you tell them they didn't need to be anxious, actually, it was fine all along. They really like that, you know.
- [09:49]
A
Yeah, no, I'm definitely not saying that you absolutely should be anxious. You should definitely want to win every postseason game, but you don't need to necessarily. Another thing that I find very satisfying, actually, so sort of the opposite of this is when an umpire does not grant time to a batter. I find this very satisfying. So this happened. It was the eighth inning of Game 3 of Cubs brewers and Jake Bowers called for Time. I, I think it was the first pitch of the plate appearance, maybe, but it was a very late call for time. And I forget who was pitching, but he had started already. Yeah, you know, he'd gone into his motion a little bit and Bowers did that thing where he didn't really request time, he just sort of assumed that he would get time. That's what bugs me about, because there's no actual request. In most cases, it's right. It's one smooth motion. You sort of say you want time and you step out of the box entirely. Because every now and then you'll see a batter, they'll put up their hand and presumably they'll say something. They'll actually request time and then the umpire will grant it. But in most cases, I would say the batter just presumes that time will be granted and steps out of the box as they request it. Just kind of presupposing that time will be granted. And it's very presumptuous. It's, it's almost imperious in my mind. It's not, it's less a request than a decree. It's a decree of time. You know, it's just, I deserve time. I'm taking my allotted time here. And there is supposed to be a two way street here. You are supposed to get permission, particularly if you're doing it really late. So you are allowed to take a timeout. And because you're allowed to do that with the pitch clock rules and everything, batters often will, they will avail themselves of that. But they do it often to try to screw up the pitcher, it seems like, and they wait for the last possible second and it's, you know, okay, it's gamesmanship. You're, you're allowed to try that at least. But I do kind of like when umpires hold the line and say, no, that was too late. This guy's already pitching. You, you can't, you mistimed it. And so often I would say usually in most cases they do grant it and probably they feel extra pressure to grant it. Now, I think because there's the pitch clock and, and because the, the batters are entitled to have a timeout. And so I think maybe the umpire feels extra pressure when, when it's requested, granted. But when it's too late, you gotta draw the line somewhere. And you have to say, no, that this is discourteous. This is, and I'm not even a believer in the, the wind bigler, the dick wind bigler incident of once the pitcher is entering Their motion, they must continue because if they stop, they will hurt themselves. Yeah, I think that is very overblown, except for in that one particular wind wiggler case. But it is impolite and it's, you know, it's just clearly a way of trying to get an edge on someone and you're kind of delaying things unnecessarily and maybe you're even getting an edge not just by messing with the mind of the pitcher, but maybe seeing what they intended to throw there. And maybe now they have to throw something different. So I like this. I have nothing against Jake Bowers. In fact, he was a minor league free agent draftee of mine, so if anything, I have warm feelings toward him. But you gotta request that earlier. And, and I kind of like it when they get called on this every now and then. It's kind of like when a batter gets hit by a pitch.
- [13:39]
B
Yes. I was just about to say. And they've clearly either really not gotten out of the way or they've leaned into it.
- [13:46]
A
Exactly. Yeah. And the convention really is that you usually just give it to him because. And maybe you can review that now, but usually it's like, well, do you want to deny them their base? They just took one for the team and that probably hurt. And are you really going to argue that it was their fault all along? You're, you're blaming the hit by pitch victim here. But sometimes it really is their fault.
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B
Sometimes they lean on in.
- [14:13]
A
Yeah. Or they made no effort to get out of the way as you're supposed to. And so when an umpire says, no, I'm not giving you that one, I find that just very satisfying. And this is similar. I hope that it sends the signal that no, you can't, you know, there has to be a limit at some point. You can't call time in the middle of a delivery.
- [14:33]
B
Yeah. I think that we like gamesmanship and I think you're right that that is often a strong component of this. I remain skeptical that it really does a whole lot. It has sort of icing the kicker vibes to me where it's like, I think that if we did a study on this, we'd find that it doesn't really have much of an impact on say, the, the nastiness of the next pitch, the degree to which the pitcher is able to execute to the location that he wants or whatever. But I get it, you're trying to take back some amount of say so in an experience where as a hitter you are for the most part just subject to the whims of what you're given. Right. And so I understand that you want to dictate a little something in this interaction, but I do agree that there comes a point where it becomes sort of like undecorous and there's a lot of latitude given. And I agree, I think it's good when there's a small assertion of like, but so hey, that was a little late though. You know, it's sort of like the other thing that I wonder if we'll come to view it as is like before the pitch clock around timeouts in particular. First of all, there were guys that would just like try to take multiple timeouts per at bat in a way that was like excessive. And then there was all this futzing, you know, there's all this, my strap is undone, my elbow guard has, has jostled, I gotta ran and undo my gloves and, and eventually there, there would be umpires who'd be like, so, hey, you get back in the box, won't you? We, we got dinner reservations later. So yeah, I think that a little reminder that there is a limit to the bounds of what is reasonable is useful. I think it's good. I think that's good.
- [16:20]
A
It is funny in retrospect, just all the attempts that they made to try to speed games along through all those various half measures, partial measures, just oh, you can't leave the box and you can't mess with your batting gloves or whatever it is, and none of that had much of an effect. Sometimes it would help for a season or two and then there'd be a slight reduction and then there would be inevitably backsliding and it didn't do all that much to begin with. And it was just all of these various attempts to avoid a pitch clock, which was an obvious solution and technologically feasible. And as I've detailed before tested in games going back several decades, but there's just what can we try other than that that's like, you know, that's the emergency, let's not break that glass. Let's try all these little things that maybe will help, but they just, they never took. But yeah, I don't know. This was, this warmed my heart. I don't know if this is like events going on in the world at large. The building frustration that there seem to be no consequences for any kind of rule breaking behavior. You can get away with anything. The more shameless, the better. But Jake Bowers, you cannot call Elite timeout. Yeah, not, not today. Not in this instance.
- [17:36]
B
Not today. The line must be Drawn here.
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A
Yes. At least in sports we still have rules. We still sort of have a civilization here, hopefully. Well, we'll talk about each of series, I suppose here we'll do check ins on where they stand. Some of the ones that we talk about may be over by the time people are hearing this, but I guess we should begin then with the one that is already over because this will not be any more out of date than it already is. Yankees lost as Vladimir Guerrero Jr. And David Ortiz sang sing songly on the post game show the Yankees loose.
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B
Yeah, I don't know how I would feel about any of this if I were a Yankees fan. I think my whole life would be different. You know, I think like my entire perspective on the world might be different than it is right now. But setting that aside, I can appreciate how if, if the Yankees are your, are your team and they just, they just lost, that you wouldn't enjoy this. But Ben, the delight I had, not just how long it went on and not just the, the verb. I don't want to suggest that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Has not cared about baseball up until this point. I'm not saying that I want to be very clear the way that that man played in this series. I was like, that guy really hates the Yankees, dude. That guy, like he.
- [19:06]
A
Yeah. And there were so many stats about his hitting in Yankee Stadium and he has been.
- [19:11]
B
Yeah, hates them. I mean the, the, the obvious want from Vladdy in that series was, was really something. And again, I don't want to, I don't want to make it sound like I'm accusing him of loafing at other points. I think that like he, you know, he had this rough stretch right at the end of the season and this just shook him loose. You know, maybe it's the combination of the opponent and getting to rest up a little bit from the buy and everything, but like, my God, but the fact that David Ortiz was sitting sandwiched between Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter while they were doing it.
- [19:53]
A
Yeah.
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B
And that the crew, that the producer, the Fox producer was just like, just keep going back and forth between those guys. Just keep going. I want to see a rod. I want to see Jeter. I want to see a rod. I want to see Jeter. Cut to a rod. Cut to Jeter.
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A
Jeter's smile faded as the clip went on as. And Poppy did a third round of the Yankees loose. You could see the smile was like plastered on Jeter's face, but getting less and less pronounced than genuine. Yeah.
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B
Yes. Not enjoying himself. So I thought that that was delightful. I can appreciate how if I were a Yankees fan, I would be less enthused though.
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A
Yes. No, but that's what you want out of that, that pregame or post game show I. You want. Because Poppy, it's just like the rules of media don't really apply to David Ortiz because I mean, I sent you the highlight the previous day of highlight. They all went. Well, they all went around and, and did their best to pronounce Schlitler, except for Poppy who just straight up just call her Hitler. Yeah. And they kind of awkwardly went to break and yeah.
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B
Kevin Bergdale's like, ah, we should cut now.
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A
Yeah. And even though that was a joke, I guess, I mean, it was, you know, in poor taste sort of. But like, I mean, we talked, when we talked about Schlitler, we were saying, like, there's some possibility that someone might say that by accident. Yeah, that was not by accident.
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B
It didn't seem like it.
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A
No, not, not. Not at all. So with anyone else that. That might have stuck to them. I. I didn't see.
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B
I don't know, I didn't see anything about it. No.
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A
I mean there was, I didn't see like online. There was an awful announcing post, but I don't think there was anyone. I don't know if he, as he didn't do an apology or anything like with, with other people, I think that probably would have been a bigger deal. But it's just like, it's poppy, you know, it's. It's Poppy being Poppy. And that's been a good show. That's been the closest that MLB has to inside the NBA sort of vibe. And especially I think in the, the pre Jeter days when you had Frank Thomas in the mix as well. And that group of guys like the Papi and A Rod and Kevin Burkhart, like, it's just such an interesting mix of personalities because a Rod is always fascinating as a personality. Just his, his attempts to fit in and ingratiate himself combined with his like, neediness and his. And his obvious love for baseball.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And knowledge about baseball. That, that soup of emotions and traits, it just always makes him kind of a compelling TV presence when combined with Poppy who's just ragging him all the time.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
You know, Jeter's a little too buttoned up. I mean, he's maybe a little looser than he was at first, but I don't know. That's just. It's a good.
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B
Only slightly if he is. It's a pretty. It's a pretty stiff delivery.
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A
It is, yeah.
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B
It's.
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A
It's kind of like, what were you expecting exactly out of Derek Jeter in this role? You know, it's like with Tom Brady. I mean, what qualities that they exhibited during their playing careers suggested that they would be naturals for this role? Exactly. But you just. It's a Fox thing specifically, more than any other network, probably you just go for the legends. You go for the famous figures and the star power, and sometimes they're good at their jobs and sometimes they're very recognizable. But that's. Yeah, you're not, you're not going to them for great analysis, really. You're going to it because you don't exactly know what they might say. They might say something that they probably shouldn't even say. And so I, I like that. That's, you know, just kind of like a loose cannon. And, And Papi is the loosest cannon on that panel. And I even saw, I saw some Yankees fans, obviously were upset about that display of Yankees hating. And I saw someone saying, like, imagine Aaron Judge doing this. He would never, you know, and it's.
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B
Like, well, yeah, that's why he's boring and sucks to talk to.
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A
Like, yes, he is a great player. He's pretty boring. No, he wouldn'. He's bland and he. He wouldn't. And, and also, you know, if, if you're. You're kind of punching up. If, if you're right, taunting the Yankees because they're the Yankees, and I know that they haven't won a World Series in a long time. Well, Blue Jays haven't won one in about twice as long, but they're the Yankees. So, you know, you can do that to the Yankees, and if you do that to some other team that doesn't have the same track record of success and doesn't have the same contingent of haters, you know, continent wide, then, yeah, it would read a little bit differently, obviously.
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B
Here's what I'll say to Yankees fans. And again, I don't want to. I don't want to make you feel worse than you already feel today. I understand this is disappointing. And there are some, you know, there's some big questions that the franchise has to answer in, in the next little bit here. And I, I get it. You're in a. You're in a tender spot. So having displayed that understanding of your particular human condition in this moment, you got to get the hell over it, man. Not the loss. The loss you should continue to feel disappointed about, or if you've Moved on from it. Like, good for you. That's emotionally healthy. But you can't do 27 rings. We're the greatest pleasure creature. You can't do that and then be wounded. When people revel in your downfall, the two things go hand in hand. Now, if you want to chill out about the storied nature of the franchise, then there's room for everyone else to relax and turn, right? But just as an outside observer, no demonstration that there's any interest in doing that on the part of the fan base. So this is part of the bargain that you have struck. This and the jets being cursed for the rest of your lives. These are the choices you've made. You've decided to take the John Updike quote very seriously. You've decided that this team is the most important in professional baseball, nay, professional sports. And when that is the posture that you adopt and that you are, to be clear, being encouraged to adopt on the part of the franchise. Like the Yankees want Yankee fans to be Yankee fans. They want that. That's part of the thing, right? That's part of the. The soup that the team is swimming in. But if that's the posture you're gonna adopt, then guess what? Vlad is going to play like his family's life depends upon him winning and then be joyous when you lose. That's. That's part of the bargain, you know, it just is. And again, I'm sorry for how you're feeling today. I might feel the way you're feeling today, tomorrow. I mean, I won't feel it exactly, because I have operated my entire life as a sports fan from a place of terror and implicit humility. But the disappointment part will be similar, probably. I mean, my team wasn't in the World Series last year or ever. Okay, wow. I love that there's just. I love that there's just enough left in you. There's just enough left that you're like, look, I can't just. I can't just take this. I can't just let her say two minutes of true things that might offend some of our listeners. I must whack back on their behalf.
- [27:17]
A
One true thing myself there. But no, look, that series, that was just a straight up clock cleaning.
- [27:24]
B
They got their clocks cleaned. They got their teeth kicked in. Clock clean is better. You know, also, sorry, this is our podcast. This is what we do. What's up with that expression, get your clock clean? Isn't it good to get your clocks clean cleaned? I mean, do you think that now I'm Gonna whack you back. And I'm really sorry. Do you think that if the clocks were cleaner that you would have an easier time reading them?
- [27:46]
A
No, I don't think so.
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B
You don't think it's a matter of cleanliness? You don't think the grime and grit that might accumulate over a surface that's exposed to the air is your problem?
- [27:56]
A
Nope, I don't think it's the visibility of it.
- [27:59]
B
Gotta join the Patreon and know what we're talking about.
- [28:01]
A
I may have referenced that here, too.
- [28:02]
B
It's not really.
- [28:03]
A
It's not a strong suit of mine telling time on analog clocks, but you struggle. Call. Yeah, it's this series. I know that there are Yankees fans who are taking this as yet another data point in the case against Aaron Boone and. Or Brian Cashman. Maybe you can from a team construction standpoint, but this series, the Boo Jays just had a better series. It's. It's.
- [28:26]
B
They had a better series.
- [28:27]
A
Yeah, it's. It doesn't mean that much in terms of. Well, it means a lot in terms of the end of your season and who gets to advance. But. But I don't think it means all that much in terms of evaluating what went wrong. You had four games, and the Blue Jays were just on everything. And kudos to their hitters. It did become a bit tiresome to listen to John Smoltz just go on and on and on about their contact and how this is, you know, in the eternal battle of good versus evil, as Smoltz sees it, contact versus no contact, trying to hit singles versus swing for the fences, that it's like he.
- [29:06]
B
Didn'T watch Vlad the entire series. I don't understand his perspective on this.
- [29:11]
A
Yeah, look, the Blue Jays, they struck out less in the series. They struck out less in the season, less than any team did in the season. And, you know, you can show someone like Smalltz any number of studies about how having a higher contact rate or having a higher percentage of your run scored on homers, if anything, tends to be a bit beneficial in the postseason, and they just won't accept that. And he did say something to the effect of, well, it. It works when you are actually hitting the homers, but when you're not hitting the homers, then it. It looks bad. And that much is true. It. It just is more frustrating, perhaps, for the fans to see a bunch of flailing. And when you're hitting, when you're connecting and. And those balls are going over the fence, well, then that's very Satisfying, but with the exception of Game 3, the Yankees weren't doing that as much as they needed to. So by the way, when you said that the, the cost of the Yankees historical success is the jets being cursed, I guess a Yankees fan might point out that there's more of a correlation between the Mets and the jets and the Yankees and the Giants, but the Giants are pretty cursed these days too. So maybe it applies to, to all the metropolitan area football teams. You know, they're both quite bad. But I don't know. I think what you're saying, it's, it's, it's true that you just have to take your lumps and the Yankees now are approaching their longest title drought as a franchise and it will be notable when they cross that boundary. And you know, the longest, I guess, is, is like in the pre Ruth days when they weren't the Yankees yet. Right. And then there was also the 80s when they were a successful team in the regular season and they just couldn't win one. And then the early 90s, they were just straight up bad. And you know, there were, there were genuine down periods for the Yankees and this has been a period when they've generally been competitive and they've usually been in the postseason and they even won a pennant last year and they just have not broken through. And I don't know how you can really lay the failure in this particular series at the door of Aaron Boone, who didn't really do anything notably bad, or Brian Cashman for that matter, because it's just like, you know, the good pitchers were bad in this series. Like Freed was a good signing. He had a great year. He did not have a good game in this series. Neither did Carlos Riddon and the Blue Jays, I don't know how much to credit it to them and say this was good hitting or it was bad pitching or I'm sure it's some combination of both. But yeah, the Blue Jays were swinging it. They were looking good. From Vladdy to Ernie Clement, you know.
- [31:49]
B
Ernie Clement, the series of his life.
- [31:52]
A
Yes.
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B
Series of Ernie Clement. Yes.
- [31:55]
A
Great showing and, you know, good for, for them. Because even if the Yankees and Yankees fans don't see the Blue Jays as their biggest rival, the Blue Jays do see the Yankees as a big rival. And they, they slew Goliath here and, and they put some of the recent past behind them about not being able to win a game, let alone a series. And, and here they are. And you know, the refrain all season long was run differential and that's reasonable. Enough to point to while the season is still going on and you're projecting what might happen. As it turned out, the Blue Jays and Yankees tied and taught the standings and the tiebreaker went Toronto's way and they won the AL east despite not having as good a run differential. And in this series, they put the run differential talk behind them because they had the superior run differential by a lot in this particular series and they just kind of put on a clinic and you do in fact have to hand it to them and on they go. So I just, I don't know how you can see this in particular as. Yep, it's, it's Aaron Boone. There's some sort of fatal flaw here. It's Brian Cashman. Of course, there could have been a stronger roster, there could have been better players, there could have been fewer weaknesses. On the whole, though, I look at this Yankee season relative to where I thought they were going to be back in March, let's say when they lost Garrett Cole to injury for the season and they had lost Luis Heel for half the season or so, and of course, Juan Soto had departed and they end up tying atop the AL east, winning a wild card series against the Red Sox, going in the Division Series, having a strong, solid season, at least what most teams would consider a fairly successful season. This was a job well done. I mean, to get them that far. If anything, they exceeded preseason expectations. Now, Yankees fans, conditioned by years of George Steinbrenner, sending the signal that it should be World Series or bust and everything else is a failure, well, they will say, well, they should not have been in a situation to begin with where they lost Juan Soto, where someone could possibly outbid them for a superstar, and they would not be a World Series favorite heading into the season. That's not how the Yankees used to operate. And if the boss were still alive and all of this, and yeah, you can lay that at the door of, of halsteinbrenner, if anyone, because he's clearly not operating the same way that his dad did. And the Yankees don't blow other teams out of the water payroll wise. They're not even the top spending team in baseball these days. And you look 20 years ago and they were in a entirely separate stratosphere. They were not just the number one spenders, but they were blowing everyone else away in a way that no team does today, and the Yankees definitely don't. But you just have to look across town to, to see an even bigger spending team that signed Juan Soto and missed the playoffs entirely. So by that Standard, which is not the standard that a lot of Yankees fans employ. This was actually a fairly successful season with some pretty nifty work. Once you've lost Soto to replace him and not really feel his absence, or Coles, for that matter.
- [35:09]
B
I largely agree with everything that you just said. I never want to advocate for people like, losing their jobs, but I also think that it would be fine if the Yankees fired Aaron Boone.
- [35:20]
A
Oh, sure, yeah.
- [35:21]
B
Like, here's the thing about it. I don't think that there's anything particularly remarkable about Aaron Boone as a manager.
- [35:28]
A
Me neither. Bad or good.
- [35:30]
B
Bad or good.
- [35:31]
A
Right.
- [35:31]
B
And we don't see the, you know, the behind closed doors of the clubhouse piece of it. So we always have to allow for the possibility that there is, you know, that he is playing some sort of glue guy role that we're not appreciating. But as a tactician, I think he's fine most of the time. I think he's largely unremarkable. I think that like all managers, there are times where he is too slow or too quick with his bullpen, but largely seems fine. But also he seems fine, you know, And I think that one of the things that we have learned over the last couple of years is that, like, one of the. One of the professional responsibilities of managers is to get fired. You know, that's. That's part of the gig a lot of the time. And do I think that the reason they lost this particular series is because of some growth, gross mismanagement on Aaron Boone's part? No, I do not think that. Do I think that if they make the determination that they need to do something to shake it up, they need a new perspective and they want to move on from him. I think that'd be fine, too. I mean, one thing I would be interested in, and we're not going to get, I think, perfect clarity into this either. I would be curious what the Yankees internal assessment of their defensive execution and coaching is, because one thing that I think is a thing we can say about this team is that they are not always a fundamentally sound baseball team. They're not always bad. And some of this is just they continue to play Anthony Volpe at shortstop and like, that's not always a good choice. Yeah, sorry, Anthony. But I do think that there is something to the manager having broad responsibility for the ability of your team to just not look like dupes, like dunces, like dopes out there. And that's not a bar that the Yankees always clear these days. And, you know, some of their Defensive issues in addition to coming down just to Volpe, come down to this, being an older club and like maybe you have guys who just aren't as good as they used to be. And you know, Aaron Judge's arm was clearly compromised in this series. Aaron Judge had a great series. And I think that there's like this bizarre narrative that he like didn't and that it's like that that home run salvaged his postseason. I'm like, he's playing pretty good in the postseason, you guys. This is like a. What are you talking about? But he was clearly unable to throw in the way that a right fielder generally needs to be able to. Did that cost them the series? No, absolutely not. Was it a factor in the way they played? Yeah, it sure was. So. So you know, that's not Aaron Boone's fault. Like his arm being goofed is an Aaron Boone's fault. But I do think that there is like a. For a club that still refuses to put guys names on the back of their jerseys and only recently let them grow beards, it's like kind of striking how at times fundamentally unsound they seemed to be and how drag ass they also at times seem to be. And I think that, you know, is that entirely the work of the manager? No, but some portion of his response like that's in his portfolio. Right. Is is countering the sloppiness and the drag ass. And I don't know that Boone has done that successfully. Now the worst part of all of this is that if they do fire him, he will almost certainly get another job in media. And I don't particularly enjoy Boone as a broadcaster and so making a real deal with the devil here. If I say it's fine for them to let him go. But, but I, you know, I think that it is important for every baseball team when they do their year end like self evaluation to be clear eyed about what part of it is really the manager and what isn't. But I also think that like the number of managers who really merit being like pretty precious about is. Is very small.
- [39:36]
A
Yeah.
- [39:36]
B
And I don't think Boone is on that list. So if they let him go, I wouldn't be like, oh my God, how dare the overreactive Yankees would be like, yes, that makes sense.
- [39:44]
A
Sense, right. I wouldn't protest and say oh, this was unjust or that he was a scapegoat in particular. I also wouldn't say aha, problem solved. Now the Yankees will finally win one because they have jessened Boone. It just doesn't make as much of a difference as people think. Especially if, if a part of the, the reason for his job security is that he is kind of on the same page as the front office for the most part and does their bidding or is generally aligned with them, then whatever the next guy does probably wouldn't be all that different. And maybe that's why people would say, well, then Cashman should go and look, he's certainly had an unprecedented run for any GM with one team, let alone in New York. I think this is another area where the Steinbrenner era kind of broke people's brains just because, just conditioned a whole generation of Yankees fans who probably passed this down to others. Not just the rings culture, but also the idea that there would be, you could call it accountability, but whatever his leadership or management style was, it was often counterproductive. It was, you know, when he was like banned from meddling for a while that the Yankees actually had their greatest success after that because they held on to some people rather than reflexively making moves all the time. But you look back at his hiring and firing record and of course it would have been inconceivable that someone would have had this sort of tenure and job security and it could read as complacency because, hey, we keep not winning the World Series. There should be some accountability here. And certainly there would have been back in the old days. And maybe there's a middle ground, maybe there's a happy medium between having a lifetime appointment and, you know, just ping ponging back and forth between four different executives or managers whom you keep firing and rehiring over and over and over again at, you know, every time the, the mood strikes, basically that wasn't good either. But that and the dynasty and you know, it was hard to have a dynasty in those days, but I think it's even harder now. And so the presumption that you can just do that at will, it's just. It kind of baked in these expectations that are pretty unrealistic, I think. Yes. Even for the Yankees. So sure they have some decisions to make now. If they get, get Cole back next season, if they get Clark Schmidt back next season, they have Kim Schlitler, maybe he'll learn to throw a change up or a splitter or something. And then they have their other guys in the rotation, you know, this could be a strong rotation again going into next year. And maybe they'll have to decide whether to keep Bellinger. I'm sure they'd like to. And then there are other decisions and other free agents and they'll retool and I imagine that they'll be back. Now know a lot of people were saying, well, they have wasted Aaron Judge now. This was his prime, this was his peak and they have not won one with him, which is true. Now, I don't know that it's safe to say that his prime or his peak is over now because.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah, I was about to say, are we expecting like a huge regression for Mayor and Judge next year?
- [42:44]
A
Yeah, I don't see why. I mean, sure, he's at the age where that sort of thing is possible, but people said that a few years ago that probably his best days were behind him and it was reasonable to think so. And then if anything, he got better. So of course I would not expect that he will be better next year or even as good. But I also don't see any particular reason to think that he's not going to be great next year given the last few years. And I am happy that he had this sort of series and this sort of posting. So like it was fun to see Vladdy strutting his stuff against a team that he had a grudge against as a kid. And then, and he signs an extension and he's beloved by Blue Jays fans and then he goes and does what he did. Like that's, you know, that's big boy stuff. Like that's what you want your superstar to do.
- [43:33]
B
Yes.
- [43:33]
A
But that is also basically what Aaron Judge did. And he had himself a heck of a postseason. And because the Yankees didn't go deep and ultimately it was not a great success, there will be kind of a caveat or an asterisk there or it won't fully get that October monkey off his back. But yeah, it was not his fault. You certainly can't blame him for this. He was far and away the Yankees best hitter. He was really like the only, only good hitter. That's. That was the problem. You know, that was one of the problems is that it was kind of a one man show. And as good as he is and as good as that show was, it was not quite enough. So, you know, like in the wild card round, he was fine. I mean, he batted.364, but with no power, really. And then that was how the alts started. Now if you're batting.500 with no power, you're still batting.500. So it's not bad.
- [44:29]
B
That's the thing about it.
- [44:30]
A
Yeah, but then he had that homer, right? He ends up batting.600 in this series with a 1618 OPS. And on the whole, in the postseason, he batted.500 with a.253 WRC plus. He was great. And that one homer, that was sort of the signature moment, or at least it would be if you can have a signature moment in the Division Series as a Yankee in a series that you end up losing ultimately. But you know, that was a game where they were down, it looked like they were out. And then he hits this ball that really only Aaron Judge could have hit out. Probably.
- [45:10]
B
It is, is such a, it is so wild that that was a home run. It is, it is. It's was like so far off the. What happened? How did he do that? How did he even get.
- [45:28]
A
Yeah, Ben, it was, it was pretty wild that he did that. And, and it was simultaneously an impressive piece of hitting and, and I guess an unimpressive one because usually you wouldn't want to swing at that pitch.
- [45:40]
B
You wouldn't want to swing because most people, most professional hitters, if they swing at that, even if they manage to make contact, they're not doing anything with it. They're not making good contact on that pitch. And he, he did it, went very far.
- [46:02]
A
Yeah, he just managed to keep it fair. Hit the foul pole. Hit the foul pole, whatever we're calling it. Yeah. And to get the bat around on an inside pitch that was that fast and that keep it fair, albeit barely. That was. Yeah, that was amazing. Really impressive.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah.
- [46:21]
A
Yeah. Other people had the stats on, you know, pitches in that location and what batters typically do with them, which is very cool.
- [46:30]
B
They do nothing.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah, it's, you know, Varland throws. It's almost 100 miles per hour. I mean that's, it wasn't a bad pitch. Like that's where you want to throw. If you're going to throw an O2 fastball, it better be buried inside like that. And you know, usually you'd take that pitch or you'd swing under it or maybe you'd foul it off.
- [46:49]
B
Maybe you'd foul it off.
- [46:50]
A
Yeah. Joe Sheehan had a, you know, There were almost 2,000 times this year when a pitcher with a right handed batter, 98 up and in, you know, more than 700 times the hitter swung and they batted 115 and slugged 129. When they did not one of those pitch was, was hit out of the park. And this one was. So this was, this was singular and it was nice because, you know, earlier in the series he had had that moment where he came up with the bases loaded and he just waved wildly at one. Yeah. And then Stanton also didn't do anything in that situation. And that was yet another piece of evidence added to the pile. Oh, the judge can't hack it in the playoffs. And, you know, the visual of that was somewhat persuasive even just because you're not used to seeing him swing at a pitch like that because usually he's pretty disciplined. And so that sort of suggested that. That, oh, maybe he's putting more pressure on himself. He has to be the guy to come up. No one else is hitting. And so he's expanding his zone. And, you know, that could be what a lack of clutchness is. It's not like you're. You're quaking in your boots necessarily. But, you know, you're. You're not staying within yourself. You're not doing what you usually would do, which would lead to success. And so you. Then you're swinging out of your shoes that you're not quaking in, and you end up whiffing. And so I was happy to see him have that redemption. I guess it's a partial redemption because of how the series ended. But he could not have done much more himself, realistically, reasonably, to help the Yankees win this series. And I always root for a player who's saddled with that reputation as a October choker, someone who hasn't come up in these big moments. I always root for them to make it work as long as they're not too tough to root for person just because I don't believe it. Generally, I think it's typically not the case that someone really can't perform in this situation, like Aaron Judge, who's been an absolute superstar on the biggest stage in baseball and has had so many people paying attention to his every move and scrutinizing everything. And you're telling me that he can be the best player in baseball, one of the best players ever, with all of those eyes on him. But. But when the calendar flips over to October, suddenly he's just useless. He's a shadow of himself. I just, I don't really buy it.
- [49:26]
B
Right.
- [49:26]
A
And I think one of the nice thing. And you know, the reputation was justified to be clear, because prior to this year.
- [49:33]
B
And he had not played particularly well.
- [49:35]
A
No. And especially relative to his typical elite level of play. And, and we had the stats, we shared them last year during the postseason about the. The biggest differences in regular season OPS and postseason ops. And he had. He was on the very short list of the biggest differences in every. Which is Partly a product of how productive he's been in the regular season. But yeah, it was a big step down, especially before the tail end of the World Series last year when he kind of came alive. That was, was a big story all last October. And it, yeah, it's always going to be until you deliver. But I do believe that if you keep getting reps that you will deliver. It's just inevitable. Yeah, I guess you could say, well, it's not purely a sample being bigger. It's also maybe you learn to handle that pressure, maybe you adapt to that environment. Yeah, you can't disprove that. That could be true. But I think one of the nice things about this era of expanded playoffs and so many rounds and so many games and so many teams making it is that you do get a lot of cracks at it to change that reputation.
- [50:39]
B
Yeah.
- [50:40]
A
Because in earlier eras, if you had a bad series, you might not have gotten a chance at redemption. Like Ted Williams was that guy, you know, he, he was in one World Series. And because this was the era where the World Series was the postseason, he was in one series, one postseason series, period. And it was 1946. And you know, he's one of the greatest players and hitters of all time. This was his first season back from World War II. And who knows, maybe he was tired. You'd think, you'd think you'd give him a pass on that he was serving his country heroically. But no, this dogged him in the press and people who had an axe to grind with Williams would just hold this over his head, this seven game series against St. Louis and you know, yeah, he batted.200 and there were a couple good defensive plays on him and yeah, he was fatigued and everything thing, it's one series. Like you're telling me that if the Red Sox had not made the World Series as often as the Yankees did in that era, that he would not have had his heroics. Of course he would have, but he just didn't get another chance because he was playing on this team that didn't make it again in an era where the World Series was it. But in this era, you see guys get to change that reputation. And maybe it's not players who are always easy to root for. Maybe it's Barry Bonds, maybe it's a rod. But in the moment, I was kind of pleased about that too. And I guess when Bonds changed the narrative in the World Series, that was in a losing effort ultimately too. But guys that good, you keep giving them chances. They're gonna hit, they're gonna have a series where they're just on fire. And I guess that's the good thing about now you are going to get more of those chances probably unless you're Mike Trout, I guess. But that's not his fault.
- [52:25]
B
Well, I feel of two minds about it because I agree with you that you know, over a long enough time horizon, you know, talent will out for these guys, right. Like we're just gonna see them be. Be themselves. And themselves is pretty spectacular a lot of the time now. I think there is a possibility for someone to, to have like a pernicious, specific sort of mental block about this stuff. I don't think that there's any evidence that Aaron Judge is like afflicted in that way. But like the human mind is a complex and very fragile little thing. And so the idea that someone might get, you know, like a, I guess a post season specific version of yips or whatever doesn't seem completely implausible to me. Although I would imagine it's a pretty rare sort of thing. And most of the time it's what you're saying that it's just like, like these are very small samples relative to, you know, the season that they've all just played and the, the course of their careers in its totality. I do maybe this is like more revealing of my own psychology than it is particularly insightful. But I appreciate how much failure there is in baseball. I do think that's one of the things that the support weirdly has to recommend it as a viewer. I bet it sucks to when you're a pro. Yeah, I bet it is really not fun to when you're actually a baseball player. But I do think that one of the things about the game that is so. That makes the sweet moments in it so poignant and does make you like, it does make you cry when your, your dumb baseball team finally wins at home for the first time since 2001, for instance. It is so flush to life in terms of the way that it disappoints you and how often even the very best players fail because it's just so hard, you know. And I don't want to be too like precious about this and I worry I am but I like, I think that, I think that. And I don't mean this in like a we've gotten soft kind of way, but I do think that like so much of our. I might be reaching for too much here. I want to acknowledge the possibility that I'm over my skis, but I do think that, like, so much of our culture is. Is defined by, like, the instant gratification of things. Like, we get mad when our little packages take more than, like, three days to get to us. That's bonkers. You know, they used to have to, like, haul that with animals. We don't have to do that anymore. And. And it's good. It's good that you can, like, get your meds in the mail fast. Like, I don't. You know, but, like, wait, do you really need the little doodad so quick? I don't know that we do. We could, like, have to wait longer, and that'd probably be okay. So I. I just. I like that there's this thing where part of what you're doing is hard and it doesn't work very much, and then when it does, it's so cool, you know? And I. To be clear, it shouldn't be so hard as it is for Mariners fans. That's too hard. It shouldn't be so hard as it is for, you know, for Pirates fans. It's a different kind of hard, but also too hard of a hard. Right. I don't mean it. Like, it needs to stretch over the course of someone's lifetime. Like, I was. I was asked by someone when that guy. When that Mariners fan was crying when they beat school, which. God, I can't believe they set themselves up how to do that again. Ben, we'll get to it, but I don't. I don't know about that as a strategy. You know, I would have. I would have just won the game on.
- [56:14]
A
Yeah.
- [56:15]
B
On Wednesday. If it had been me, I would have been like, let's win that game. That seems easier, you know, like, no offense to Casey Mize, but anyway, we'll get to that.
- [56:21]
A
I think I may have seen someone say, that was a must win because you don't want to face school. Which, again, I get it, emotionally speaking. But also, they did just win a game that was started by Skubal. It is possible. It's difficult. It's possible. Yeah.
- [56:35]
B
Yeah. So, you know, he's crying, and I don't know this man. I don't know what his particular emotional mix was on that day. Like, what about it? It might have just been that it had been so long, but I was asked by someone like, so what's going on with you guys? Someone who maybe has heard about the feral state to which I've been reduced at times over the last little bit here. And I was just like, I know that they went to the playoffs in 2022. It's not like it hasn't happened recently, but like, you know, since the last time Seattle had a postseason win at home, a lot of people are just dead now, Ben, you know, like, not to lay a heavy thing on you and our listeners, but, like, you know, the last time the Mariners won a playoff game at home, I had four grandparents, and now I only have one. You know, people have just. We just lost folks. You know, there's like a When. When you get into being able to mark the futility of your franchise in generations, in decades, a lot happens in your life in between now and then. And so then it stirs it all up. You know, you get. You get kind of restimulated isn't quite the right way to put it. But, like, it. It just. It brings up a lot for folks. And so all that to say you shouldn't have to wait maybe quite that long. But I. I like that we have this thing that is so hard and we commit ourselves to it for so long. The regular season is so long, and then the playoffs aren't as long, but they're still so long. And so I. I like it when you. When you have the moment of breakthrough, because otherwise you're just tortured. Right. So you need the breakthrough part, you know, Otherwise it's like, what the hell are we even doing here? But it does make the breakthrough really satisfying. Like, you're genuinely. And even for players who you don't maybe care so much about. Right. Who aren't your guys, like, Aaron Judge is an important player in baseball. Aaron Judge is, to a certain degree, everybody's guy because he is so important to the game as it is understood today. Right. Like, Ohtani is a Dodger, but he's also bigger than being a Dodger. He's everybody's guy, at least a little bit. Which me to. It doesn't mean they're obligated to root for him, but it does mean that, like, he's a little bit yours, even if you're not a Dodger fan. Cause he's so important to the sport. But it means something. It means something when they break through, you know, part of why. And we've had to grapple with this, maybe in a different way in this run because it is his last ride, but also he has complicated his own legacy. It's like with Kershaw, you know, when. When he came out in relief. Not yesterday, but, you know, there are times when it's like, it means something, you know, So I don't know.
- [59:29]
A
Yeah. And I'VE disputed baseball's status as uniquely a game of failure. I think a lot of sports involve failure, but I think there is an awful lot of failure in all sports, in most sports and certainly in baseball. And it's true that in the postseason you may get more shots at it, you may get into the postseason more often than you used to, but it's harder then to close the deal. And because there's so much randomness and there's so many rounds that, yeah, it can make it even more satisfying. Even if you're aware that there is some element of chance to it, to, to do it, to survive the gauntlets, all of those rounds, Wild Card, Division Series, Championship Series, World Series, a few. Make it all that way and maybe you've been in a bunch of times and you know how hard it is to survive all of those hurdles and leap over them and all those impediments and obstacles in your way, then that makes it maybe even more satisfying. So, yeah, Blue Jays fans know that. Congrats to them. And I guess this is the first time since the last time the Blue Jays were there in 2016 that neither the Astros nor the Yankees will be in the alcs.
- [60:39]
B
Yeah, how about that?
- [60:40]
A
Some new blood. So that's exciting.
- [60:43]
B
That's exciting.
- [60:44]
A
Yeah. Getting your clock clean, by the way, the, the etymology seems to be kind of unclear, but I guess it, it's related to the clock face, the clock being the face. And so it's, it's kind of like you're getting punched or your face is getting wiped away. That's sort of a pugilistic thing. Maybe. Anyway, that seems to be maybe where it comes from.
- [61:04]
B
I enjoy the word pugilist. Simplistic. That's a fun, that's a fun word to say, I think.
- [61:09]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, well, let's talk then I guess about that Dodgers Chile series while we're on the subject. And of course we'll be a little bit behind by the time people hear this, but we'll talk about what has transpired. So this has been a series where there have been some confounding managerial moves on both sides, I think you could say. So Dave Roberts took a lot of abuse for his pitcher management earlier in the series and his stubbor reliance on Blake Trinen who almost blew another game until Roki Sasaki came in and got that final out. And even the final out was a anxiety inducing moment cuz Tommy Edmond had a, a wild throw and, and Freddy Freeman just managed to corral it. But that was Odd because everyone in the world was saying, put Roki in right now, and he did not. And then he ultimately had to anyway. And his explanation after the fact was basically that Sasaki hasn't had to work this way a lot, you know, hasn't had to pitch whatever it was two times in three days. It was. There had been an off day. Right. So that. That's why it was even more confusing. And sure, he hasn't done that because he hasn't really been a reliever before. And. And yeah, you have to be careful about that, I guess. But you have an off day if he's just pitching and ending at a time. I mean, you. This is the time where you gotta see if that will work really. And you might as well take that risk if your alternative is the risk of Blake Tran. So. And then ultimately you have to summon Roki anyway because the other guys didn't get the job done. So he is trying this strategy, which we kind of previewed coming into the post season, of how many relief innings can you get from starters? And the more the better, seemingly. But there is a point at which that starts to. You break down. And so there were people who questioned the moves with Emmett Sheehan and allowing him to face those big Phillies lefties. If you're carrying all these lefties ostensibly to face those guys and sticking with Trinen, then you had Rob Thompson of the Phillies helping Roberts out maybe with a suspect bunt. Now there was another move that was criticized which fell into the category of you might not know about the behind the scenes stuff because Nick Castellanos was not pinch run for. Right. But he couldn't be because Harrison Bader was due up and Bader just could not run.
- [63:40]
B
He couldn't run.
- [63:41]
A
Yeah. And so he would have had to be pinch run for which he was when he did get a hit. And so they had to hold the pinch runner in reserve for that moment. But there was a highly questionable bunt by Thompson in that moment. And. And a unusual rationale for that too, because he essentially said that he was playing for the tie. There are moments where a sack bunt makes some sense, but you know, it was like they got three hits off Trine and it was four to three. They had the tying run on second and then Bryson stopped, was ordered to bunt. And you know, it's a stadt, a lefty against a lefty, but he hasn't been horrible against them over his career. He's put the ball in play and that's just, you know, he's not an experienced bunter. He did get the bunt down and the Dodgers, to their credit, had the wheel play on and, and made a really nice play and they got the out at third. And so that was just a waste for the Phillies. And then Bader singled and so that kind of loomed larger even after the fact. But yeah, they never tied. And Thompson then said that he was playing for the tie because he liked the Phillies bullpen better than the Dodgers pen. Which, fair, I guess those, some of those Phillies relievers were unavailable or, or fatigued at that point, but that just struck me as an odd move to play for the tie. Yeah, you want to extend the game, but, but things are going well for you here. You also want to end the game. You could very easily get that runner moved over if you let Stott swing away and maybe something even better happens. And so that just didn't seem like a good call to me.
- [65:32]
B
And you know, as Bauman pointed out after the fact, like, I mean, Stott has some pretty intense platoon splits, but he also puts the ball in play pretty well against lefties. Like, he, he manages a reasonable contact rate and not like completely atrocious strikeout rate. So it did seem odd. It seemed odd. I, I think the Cassidy pinch running stuff is like very easily understood, but this one did seem a little strange to me, like a touch too cute by half. And, and some of it is like, you know, Stott hit the ball like bunted the ball a little too hard, but the Dodgers really did play it perfectly. And then. Yeah, you're sitting there and you're like the part of it too. Yeah, I, I just, it just seemed to like, maybe you successfully bunt and you feel differently about it if he actually gets to third, but he didn't. Right. So it's like, you know, you can't, you can't then bring him home. You know, it just wasn't the best.
- [66:37]
A
Yeah. And, and Stot, he has a pretty pronounced platoon split this year, but in his career, it's, it's not that big really. And, and batting average wise, he has almost no split. So if you're just trying to tie it, you're trying to single or something. He's right. He's really, you know, it's more of a power differential because he's hit 42 home runs versus righties and seven versus lefties, so there's a pretty sizable slugging difference. But batting average wise, just a six points or so. So he wasn't really a bad guy to have up there swinging away in that situation. And I think that's what you get at this time of year. So we got an email from Patreon supporter Daniel and this was last week before this happened, or I guess he goes by Dan. I was listening to the Guardians Tigers wild card game one in the top of the ninth inning when Guardians radio announcer Tom Hamilton said something to the effect of, you know, it's playoff baseball when you have two sack bunts or squeeze bunts in one game after having only five all year. I feel like this may have come up before, but is it really a sign of playoff baseball to get more sacrifice and squeeze bunts? It actually sounds potentially right to me. But why. And yeah, it is true that there's more bunting in the postseason and.
- [67:58]
B
Well, yeah, because they don't. They don't put out bunting during the regular season event. That's special.
- [68:03]
A
I walked right into that one, I guess. But. But no, it. It's true that the, the rate is significantly higher in the postseason. And in the regular season. I looked just 2022 on so universal DH era. And in the regular season you have 0.09 sacrifice bunts per game. And that's both teams combined, I believe. And if you do it just innings one through nine because you get more sacrifices in extra innings in the regular season with the zombie runner, then the rate is even lower. It's just 0.08 per game. And in the playoffs it's 0.5.0.15 per game. So it's not quite double, but a significantly higher rate. Or if you do that on a plate appearances per sack bunt basis, then in the Regular season it is.451.451 plate appearances per sack bunt. Or if you look at extra or regulation only, it's of 400 plate appearances per sack bunt. In the postseason, it's 249 plate appearances per sack bunt. So yeah, you get a significantly higher rate of sacrifice buns. And I think some of that is rational. I think it probably makes sense because you just have a, a lower scoring environment. You know, it's. The weather's colder, you've got better opposing pitchers, you've got better opposing defenses. You have. You're facing even fewer, you know, plate appearances with third time through the order. Like, there's just more pitching changes and fresh arms and guys throwing harder than they typically do. So it's, it's hard to score for any number of reasons. And so sometimes you do kind of manufacture runs and play some small ball because you just want to scratch that run across or. Right. You know, and. And also though, I think there is some risk aversion or like. Yeah, there's risk aversion coupled with like just wanting to do something. You know, it's like I can't just lose here. I have to go down swinging. If I'm the manager, I have to press some buttons and pull some levers here and I, I've gotta announce my presence with authority. I gotta make. Right. Right. My presence known. I gotta do some stuff. And so I'll call for a sack bunt here. And there are fewer stolen bases in the postseason too, which is kind of. There have been very few this postseason, but even in this same era, I guess. And maybe I should have done 2023 on for the new rules, but 2022 on since I had the spreadsheet, it's like 0.67 stolen bases per game in the regular season, 56 in the postseason. I think it's just outs are really costly and you just don't want to get thrown out. It's just, it's embarrassing. It's. It just hurts a lot in the postseason when base runners are hard to come by. And that's probably another reason is that there are just fewer base stealing opportunities because there's just a lower on base percentage to begin with. But yeah, with the bunts, sometimes, yeah, you. You want to play for a tie or maybe you think you do because you just don't want to lose and you just, just. It's so costly. Even if it's not a must win game, it might feel like that in the moment. So yeah, you just want to get that running, get that tie. But it's still sometimes counterproductive. So I think the rate probably should be a bit higher in the post season than it is during the regular season, but it's probably higher than it should be. And that was an example of a time when it probably didn't make so much sense. So yeah, you had managers both maybe making kind of counterproductive moves in that game. But you know, the Phillies staved off elimination in the actual must win game and they got a couple of schwar bombs and it was pretty close until Clayton Kershaw came in and woof. That was, in a way, there's a part of me that was like one last look at playoff Kershaw, you know, it's like almost made me nostalgic. It's. Oh, it's. He's retiring and we get to see October Kershaw one more time, you know, and. And that was rough because. Because he came in and in the first inning that he pitched, he was leading a charmed life. Like, he was not fooling anyone in that game. He had nothing. They were right on everything. And I thought to myself, I can't believe he got out of this first inning. Like, he was super lucky because he had two hard hit balls lined up at TE Oscar and, you know, have to be close enough that even Te Oscar can get to them. So that was fortuitous.
- [72:48]
B
And you hate watching that man play. The outfield is so funny. It's so funny.
- [72:54]
A
Ben. Yeah, he's. I. I like Te Oscar as a. He's got a great smile. You know, he's a good hitter, but, boy, he's just not a good defensive outfielder. But, no, he's not. So he caught those balls, and then there was a catcher pickoff at first base, and that bailed Kershaw out of that. And then Dave brought him back for another inning, and he was just like, hey, buddy. He was getting tattooed.
- [73:17]
B
He was getting tattooed.
- [73:19]
A
And he got lucky that it wasn't even worse because there was a great catch by Justin Dean, and then Kike, I think, threw out who was it? Harper at the plate. So, yeah, it could have been even worse, but there's part of me that wants Kershaw to get into one more game somehow. I. You know, I'm not a Dodgers fan, clearly, so that's why. But. But just so that that's not the last look that we get of him, you know, even if it's just in garbage time or something, if there's another opportunity for him to pitch some low leverage inning or something, and hopefully it goes a little bit better than that, just so that that's not the final appearance of his hall of Fame career. But on the other hand, maybe it's kind of appropriate that that would be the final, because, yeah, that was. That was. That was the kind of playoff Kershaw that we talked about and bemoaned and wondered about for so many years. Obviously, this is a much different Kershaw than who he was in his prime. But then again, that was often the narrative about playoff Kershaw before. It's like, oh, by the time he gets to October, well, he's worn down and he's tired and he's pitching through injury, and also, he's unlucky, and he gets no bullpen support and he gets no run support. And all those things were true to some extent, but also, gosh he really was way worse in the postseason than he was in the regular season. And it was like the judge situation prior to this year where, yeah, he was way worse. And that was partly because he was just so good in the regular season, but also he was so. So much. So much worse. And, yeah, here he went again.
- [74:53]
B
Yeah, it's. You know, I. I find it confounding that he got sent out there again. I understood him being used the first time, and, yeah, I'm a little surprised that, like, the sentimentality of robbers didn't prevail there. To just, like, not have anyone else, to not sub in anyone else. Like, okay, you gave up a run, but, like, this wasn't catastrophic. This isn't something that people are going to necessarily talk about. Yeah, but they aren't going to talk about that one.
- [75:22]
A
But then, what's more, quintessential Dodgers and Dave Robertson, Kershaw. Thank you. Dave Roberts, bringing in Clayton Kershaw, the bullpen, and times when maybe it didn't make the most sense.
- [75:34]
B
I also. I just. I think that, you know, there's obviously some selection bias in terms of, like, who I follow on social media, and so I don't want to overstate the case. And we've already talked about Kershaw and, you know, how he has complicated his own legacy lately. So I don't want to belabor that point or relitigate it too much, but I was kind of surprised by how I'm gonna do a swearing. You should. You should bleep it, Shane, because it's a big one. I was kind of surprised by how much, hey, that guy there was on my timeline when he ran into that rough inning, which was in sharp contrast to the broadcast, which made it sound like his entire family had died while he was pitching. I was like, okay, you guys, we get it. He had a rough outing and you feel bad for him. But, goodness, there's a lot of. This is so painful to watch. And it's like, I don't know, don't we have some practice? I'm going to be really interested to see how Kershaw washes over people in retirement, because I don't think I had appreciated and I. I offered this as someone who was critical of. Of how he's been of late. Like, I don't think I appreciated how much like, hey, screw that guy. There was out there until that.
- [76:49]
A
That.
- [76:49]
B
That outing. I. Yeah, I think he. I think he maybe underestimated the degree to which people were gonna have something to say about what he had to say yes.
- [77:00]
A
Although I would imagine that the. The sample of people who you follow on Blue sky is probably not representative of people at large who are like, what, Clayton Kerja? What are you even referring to? I have no idea what you're about. Talking. Talk. That's probably, like, the. The ultimate bubble for, you know, overrepresentation of people who are pissed at. Yeah. So. And. And after he got out of that inning unscathed somehow. And they brought him back. Yeah, it was pushing their luck, but Kershaw did. I mean, it made some sense to bring him in, because that's the desperate straits that the Dodgers is in now. And. And Kershaw was pretty good this year, right? I mean, he was pretty effective, surprisingly so. And. And so they kind of have to do this or at least see if it would work. So it was not unreasonable to try him. Now, maybe after the way he looked and how lucky he was to get out of it in the seventh, bringing him back for the eighth was. Yeah, that was. That was testing things. But. But, you know, ultimately, the Dodgers didn't score anyway.
- [78:10]
B
Really.
- [78:10]
A
Or I guess they scored. They scored one. But, yeah, maybe it wouldn't have mattered regardless. But now I guess you. You demote Clayton Kershaw on the. Who could we bring in here? Who is not one of our regular levers, who I don't actually want to use here. And. And they just replaced Tanner Scott on their. On their roster, too.
- [78:29]
B
Yeah.
- [78:30]
A
Can we spare a moment to talk about the Bryce Harper quote that I sent you the other day? Cause this was. This is like the. Okay, so Bryce Harper just became a dad yet again. He had his fourth child last week. And this quote, which I saw reported by Scott Lauber, who covers the Phillies for the Inquirer. Here's his quote on the birth of his fourth child last week. A boy. I've got an incredible wife, man. So far, so good.
- [79:02]
B
Okay, nice. Okay, cool.
- [79:04]
A
She pushed that thing out in three pushes and 30 seconds, right? She's an absolute monster doing it. Women, man. What a breed. I'm serious. It's an incredible thing. What a. What a quote. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, dude.
- [79:23]
B
Dudes being guys. Guys, right?
- [79:26]
A
That's. Yes. I. I want to believe. I'm. I'm fairly confident I didn't hear or see him deliver this, but I would imagine that this was, like, the sentiment underlying this was a genuine appreciation, admiration, respect, love.
- [79:42]
B
I completely agree.
- [79:43]
A
I think he was only trying to say, I have a great wife, and I'm Grateful to her for bearing our children. And you know, but the way that he put that was just the most like bro y ball player, you know, talking as if he was referring to someone who just went 3 for 4 or I guess 4 for 4 maybe in a game. Just the. She pushed that thing. That thing. You know, it takes a little while for, for fathers to connect with, with their newborn infants. You know, I felt that too. But that thing. Someday his son will look back at this and say, oh, my father referred to me as that thing a week. She pushed that thing out in third. And then she's an absolute monster. I mean, again, intended to be complimentary. Oh yeah, women, man. What a breed.
- [80:36]
B
What a breed.
- [80:37]
A
Yeah, just. Yeah, you know, probably not referring to breeding, but what a breed. What a way to put that. I'm sure the sentiment was pure, but boy, what a bro ish way to say that.
- [80:54]
B
I do not know Bryce Harper's wife, so I'm not sure what her thoughts on this would be. I do think that, like, it's an amazing thing that like, anyone survives childbirth because, like, what a, what a design flaw, you know, that's like optimized to keep the species going and nothing else. There is no. That is evolution doing the bare minimum, you know. And so I do think that, like, I've had this experience of my male friends when they and their wives start having kids and they are maybe exposed to the process of childbirth up close and personal for the first time in their lives. And there is.
- [81:40]
A
Been there.
- [81:41]
B
Yeah, there is an appropriate, I think, awe at what the human body can do. And I think that that's, that's a nice sentiment to share. And I think, you know, having a gratitude and like a respect for that process is like, like a really nice thing when, when you have it. And let's just say that like, this was delivered in a way that made you go, yeah, you do have the fanatic sewn into all your jackets, don't you? You know, like, it just had like a very. I am a pro athlete and I contextualize things in those terms. And like this, you know, it is a. I don't know if athletic would be the very first word I would. Would latch onto to describe the process of childbirth. But like, it, it isn't unathletic, you know, and it is, it is a physical endeavor. You know, it is a, it is maybe the ultimate like, mind body process. And yeah, like, I just, it's just like, I don't know if I would be like, hey, definitely share like, how long it took, how many pushes it took me. You know, there is something about it that it's like, we can be like. Like two we. You know, I know that demystifying the process and, like, really grappling with it honestly has some value. And also, like, I don't know, maybe some details of your wife's childbirth experience you want to keep just for you guys. I. I don't know. It was just so funny when you sent it. I was like, oh, my God.
- [83:14]
A
You know, I think it does tend to go a bit faster your fourth time through that process.
- [83:20]
B
I think that's right.
- [83:21]
A
Yeah. That thing just plopped right out of there.
- [83:25]
B
Just brace.
- [83:27]
A
Oh, man. Yeah.
- [83:29]
B
Bros being bros, man.
- [83:31]
A
Y. Dudes being bros. Anyway, the other series still. Still in progress, so, I don't know, is there anything that we need to say? I guess there have been fewer, just really salient storylines or. Or fewer close and exciting games. Well, there have been many close and exciting games for Tigers and Mariners, but much to your dismay, in some cases, y. I mean, the. The Tigers looked like they were on the way out, and then suddenly they found their. Their bats came alive and nine unanswered runs, and suddenly they overcame. That feels like the story of. Of the last couple games has been the dump here, dump 61 here. Guy who caught.
- [84:14]
B
I love that guy.
- [84:15]
A
Everyone loves that guy. Just, you know, you. You're in the right place at the right time with the right shirts. Not shirt, but shirt shirts. Second you catch 61, then you just flip it over to dump 62 here.
- [84:27]
B
He. He met with media after the fact is like, he got to meet Cal and he got assigned bat, and I think he maybe gave Cal the ball, but, you know, he had that moment. He did fine, by the way. He did. He did great. He did have a moment where he's like, this is overwhelming. He just said that out loud because it's like, here's the thing. Most people never have to talk to the media. Most people go their entire lives without ever having to actually, like, be on the record in front of a media member. And I think that that's fine. It reminded me a lot of you. Remember the be delay game?
- [85:01]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [85:02]
B
When. When the Diamondbacks, they might have been playing the Dodgers, their game was delayed because there was a bee swarm on the. The foul. The netting behind home plate, and they had to get a guy to come and remove it because you can't, like, have the ball hit the netting and then have the bees swarm. That would be a disaster. Right? So guy came and he did the thing and he like, he vacuumed up the bees and, and then like he came and talked to us. You know, I was there that night, happened to be in the press box that evening, and they like brought him up to the press dining and he was like, I'm not used to doing this. And most of the time when something like that happens, like everybody's kind of helping each other out, right? Like the, the guy's given some quotes and everyone is trying to be nice to him and like ease him in because he didn't expect to talk to media members that day. He thought he was at his kids Little league game and it had that kind of vibe. I mean, we can kind of wait to maybe talk about Mariners, Tigers until after the series is concluded because that game, you know, hasn't, hasn't happened yet, but boy, I didn't enjoy the last one. That's what I'll say. I, I liked the one before much better. There were parts of that game that I also didn't care for, but I, in hindsight, didn't know how good I had it. You know, that's, that's maybe what I'll say.
- [86:28]
A
Yeah, there was a bit of a bullpen blow up for the marriage. Well, this was a game where the absence of Brian Wu loomed large. I guess now Bryce Miller did fine.
- [86:39]
B
He did fine.
- [86:39]
A
Yeah, for the first four innings or so.
- [86:41]
B
And Bryce Miller had a nice, let us not forget, Bryce Miller had a nice outing and he hasn't had a ton of those this year because he's had kind of an up and down year. He's been injured. He's no Bryce Miller. Well done, buddy. You did, you did your job. Other people less successfully.
- [86:58]
A
So, yes, including Gabe Spire, who had been a rock. Ben Gibberish basically said he'd trust his life to Gabe Spire when we talked earlier this week. But yeah, then he faltered and, and the Mariners also faltered at the plates after that. And so it's not an easy assignment to have to win a, a second game started by Skubal in the series. Now I guess if you're Toronto, you kind of win either way because either the. Well, I guess, you know, if you end up having to face the Tigers in the alcs, then they will have burned Skubal in game five. And so they won't be able to line up their rotation to get him going early and potentially, you know, be able to use him up to three times in that series. So. And then I guess in this game, the Mariners don't have their ace lined up to go. Right. Because they didn't construct their rotation the same way. So they don't have Logan Gilbert set up to make this start.
- [87:58]
B
So as we are recording, they have not yet announced their Game 5 starter. Both Kirby and Castillo would be on normal rest. Here's a spoiler alert. I imagine you're gonna see both of those guys in this game. If I were Dan Wilson, I would start George Kirby because I think George Kirby is a more reliable option at this juncture. I would have felt better about his start earlier in this series. I would feel comfortable doing that because the thing I know is he's just going to end up using whoever you need to, you know, to get through, to get through. Now, I guess one of the benefits of getting blown out in spectacular fashion, you don't love the Gabe Spire of it all. That part feels pretty bad because you're right. He was so solid and then he faltered. But because the game got out of hand the way that it did and as early as it did, you know, you, I guess you give Munoz a day off that's useful, especially since he has a come in the game before. Yeah, because of Caleb Ferguson, who I think, you know, kind of had a rough go because of positioning, but also he didn't pitch very well. So it's like you've. You, you pivot to. You pivot to some of your lower, lower leverage guys in the game like Vargas pitched, Jackson pitched, Sardo didn't pitch well. And that also doesn't feel good. But you didn't use Brash, you didn't use Munoz. So you have those guys fully rested and you figure he's just going to have a all hands on deck situation. You know, who hasn't pitched in this series is Emerson Hancock. Why is he on the roster if you're never going to use him? You know, if you're never going. That was part of. That was also part of it. I'm like, was it? Shouldn't the plan have been. I mean, I guess they were just playing the matchups, but it's like you don't want to just piggyback those guys. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about Dan. I go back and forth on Tan. Sometimes I think it's fine. Sometimes I think he's adaptable. I think that he is too strict in his. His hitting platoons. They are like really quick to pull the. Pull the trigger on platooning for Canzone, for Carver. I mean, Ben, how much Mitch Garver. Do we. Anyway, I said we shouldn't talk about this series, and then I ended up talking about it because I have grievances, but we can move on from them and we can talk about the we. Well, we should talk about the brewers and the co. Because that could have been done, and then it wasn't. Did we talk about that game yet? No, we haven't.
- [90:25]
A
No. Yeah. I feel like I have just less to say about this series in general, for whatever reason, than these other ones. I guess because the games, even though the Cubs managed to win one here, I guess the earlier games weren't quite as competitive or interesting, really. The Cubs managed to pull one out here, and I was happy to see the series extended. I don't know if you have any takes or there's just a little less material here. I feel like. Like I'm. I like these teams. I like watching them play, but I.
- [91:00]
B
Like it when we get to use a playoff game to remind everyone on rules and procedure. I feel like that's always so good. You know, that doesn't make anyone grumpy. Let us pour one out for the infant fly roll. I thought it was fine that they didn't call the. That they didn't call it an infield fly. I thought that was fine.
- [91:19]
A
Yeah.
- [91:20]
B
Son was, like, going through his head. Like, it just seemed like it wasn't ordinary effort, so I thought that that was fine. I felt bad for Quinn Priester, but what are you gonna do? Sometimes that happens. I was happy for Brad Keller that he got a little bit of redemption. That was nice. Yeah, it was just sort of a. It felt like a long game. Mostly that game felt like a long game because of how much bullpen there was. Ultimately. I also like watching these teams play, and I find sweeps undignified, so I'm glad when those can be avoided.
- [91:55]
A
Learning.
- [91:57]
B
Oh, I guess they. They had a gentleman's sweep. You know, you got the one at home.
- [92:00]
A
Does feel like you. You steal one sort of. When you win a bullpen game like the. The Blue Jays did, or if you end up in a situation where your starter exits fairly early and you have to use a lot of relievers, then if you manage to triumph in one of those, it kind of feels like you got away with one. I guess less so these days when it's often bullpen game by design. But, yeah, this was sort of the case in the. The Cubs brewers series as well.
- [92:29]
B
Yeah, I don't know. I haven't heard about a pocket pancake in a while. What's going on with Murph? Does he have pocket pancakes? I appreciated his little. His little. Hey, we'll. You'll get another go to Quinn Priester. That was nice. That's the college coach and him. I think. I continue to be amused by the way that this brewers team is talked about, because I understand that the. The front office and the manager are not exactly the same person. And, you know, pat Murphy is 66. Like, he. He reads as having an older. Older school sort of approach to things, and I think there are ways in which that's probably an accurate description of him. But sometimes the way that the broadcast will talk about this brewers team, it's like, because they, you know, they're fast guys and they play good defense and like, they do sometimes bumper hits. It's like they get talked about like they're this. Like, we've. We talked about this during the season when they got written about this way. I'm like, you. You. You would struggle to find a more analytically inclined front office than the brewers front office. And, you know, the fact that they can meld those things to the extent that Pat Murphy represents sort of an older school guy, I guess, is good. I think he's more. He strikes me as someone who views himself as having, like, a slight pedagogic obligation within. Within coaching, and that does feel like a college coach holdover for me. But it's just hilariously like he is all old school brewers, and I'm like, that is not how this team understands itself. Yeah, it's just so funny.
- [93:59]
A
Yeah.
- [94:00]
B
It's not that it's not there at all, but it's like, yeah, you talked to their front office lately. Like, I don't know that that's how mad are in all the descriptions.
- [94:08]
A
Right. That's the thing. And I wonder whether this is just, you know, not paying enough attention to the Midwest teams from the. The coastal people who just parachute in to cover this team on national broadcasts, or whether it's that the brewers have done a pretty good job of. Of keeping their process quiet. They were very celebrated when they were on that run this season. And suddenly everyone was talking about the brewers, writing about the Brewers. Oh, they've cracked the code. They've. They've solved baseball the brewers way. This is, you know, what are they doing? Competitive advantage that no one else has.
- [94:45]
B
Has.
- [94:45]
A
But even then, we got an email just last week from listener Scott, subject line, matt Arnold gets very little love. And it says, why doesn't Matt Arnold get much recognition? All he has done since Taking over as pobo of the brewers is make the playoffs both years, win the NL Central all 3 years, get rid of an extremely popular, as I understand it, manager and kept winning overall. Number one seed this year, traded Corbin Burns to the Orioles, who a year later left. The O's did not resign Willie Adamus, I don't know if that's good or bad, but lost to his former boss David Stearns in the postseason last year on a ninth inning homer. It seems to me that a little light should be shined directly on him rather than a general ex Tampa Bay reference. And it's true that people don't really talk about Matt Arnold who's, you know, he runs that baseball operations department. He's been the GM since 2020. And for a while it was all about Stearns and it was all about counsel. And then they both left and the brewers kept right on rolling along, didn't miss a beat. And now you do hear. I. Yeah, it's. It's kind of like Murphy gets some credit or just generally the. But I guess Arnold is not especially outspoken or, you know, I don't know if he's media shy but doesn't really crave the spotlight or. I feel like, I mean, part of.
- [96:08]
B
It is they have one beat writer.
- [96:10]
A
Well, yeah, you know.
- [96:11]
B
You know, I do think that some of this is like a. Not a coverage issue, you know, because what, what coverage there is is quite good. But like they don't have a dedicated athletic beat writer for like the athletic. I don't mean to speak on the athletic prowess of the folks who are covering it. It's like, it's like two people. You know, there's just not a lot of.
- [96:32]
A
Yeah.
- [96:32]
B
You know, we've been fortunate. Like Kurt, who's been on our show before and done the, the preview. Like, Kurt's great. He does a, he does a really good job for the Mil Journal Sentinel. But like it's not a, it's not the Yankees like, you know, beat or anything like that in terms of it, it's. It's depth. So I think part of it is also that where it's just like it's curtain. There are other folks, but it is.
- [96:57]
A
Yeah. But yeah, it's a small beat writer contingent. It's not, not a big gaggle. And, and, and I'm not suggesting that we should do the great man theory of front offices here either. Like, like if we, we were given Stearns all the credit before. Oh, now we should just give Arnold all the credit. Maybe it's. Maybe it's not that. Maybe it's. Takes a village.
- [97:17]
B
August.
- [97:18]
A
Yeah, right.
- [97:19]
B
August.
- [97:20]
A
Former. Yeah. August Vagarstrom of fangraphs. That's. Yeah. But, you know, maybe it's a. It's a collective effort and it's the players and it's the coaches and it's the front offices, but yeah, you do. When a team has this sort of success, particularly without spending that much, that's just how it tends to happen, is that you get a lot of money. Ball buzz for that. And yeah, the brewers, you tend to hear more about the field staff or. Yeah, there is kind of like an old school sort of. And that's just. Yeah, they have a lot of X rays. People in their front office, including Arnold, and I don't know, they have managed to not only just sustain the success, but really, like, turn over the roster. Roster. It's not even like, oh, they're just. It's the. The remnants of Stearns's team or. Yeah, obviously, yes, that to some extent. But they've kind of done a rebuild on the fly here and. And without ever really falling far from contention. So someone deserves credit. You know, collectively, I guess they. They do get some credit. But, yeah, it was a good observation, I think, by Scott. Anyway, yeah, we will have more to say about those teams and, And. And this series. And if the brewers do manage to advance, then, I mean, it would be kind of fun if the brewers and the Blue Jays both. I've lumped them together all season long and pointed out the parallels and. And they're both not big teams either. There was just an article about how I think it was the brewers or the. The Cubs are small. Like, they don't have a lot of big guys. It's true of the Brewers. It's true of both of them. Just a lot of commonalities. And another commonality, as I noted coming into the postseason, was that they just haven't had a whole lot of success in the playoffs in recent years. So if both the brewers and the Blue Jays changed that narrative this postseason, then that would be fun. Not fun for Cubs fans or Yankees fans, but fun in a broader sense.
- [99:15]
B
Well, you know that my rooting interests at this point. I mean, like Seattle for fan purposes, but like, like my. My ideal field at this point is a Blue Jays, Mariners, ALCs, N, A Phillies, Brewers, NLCs. Because you know what happens if that field is what we get fingers gets a ring finger, grass guaranteed a ring. I mean, we don't get anything, to be clear, but we will have alums of the site represented on all of the CS teams. And that would be. That'd be fun. I mean, we'll have. We'll have alums of the site guaranteed in the CS field generally, but we need some other dominoes to fall for it to be a a clean sweep indeed.
- [99:59]
A
All right, here's a stat I meant to mention earlier in case you were wondering about previous instances of a player batting.600 plus in a postseason series that his team lost. Jason Stark had that stat at the Athletic. Only two other players with as many plate appearances as Judge whoever had a batting average of.600 or better and still had their team lose that series. Fred Lynn, who batted.611 for the Angels in the 82 ALCS, and Mark Grace, who batted.647 for the Cubs in the 89 NLCS. Speaking of the Cubs, they forced a Game 5 against the Brewers. The Phillies did not force a Game 5 against the Dodgers, who advanced to the NLCS. It was a great game with an ending that will live in infamy in Philadelphia. We will talk about that next time. Unfortunately for the Phillies, that was a must win game, which Jeff Passon did not note in his tweet after the fact because really, when it was a must win game and you lost it, it's sort of self evident that it was a must win game because the series is over. No one feels the need to point out after a loss in an actual must win game that it was in fact must win. Yes, we know. And by the way, we will tentatively be doing our first Patreon playoff live stream next Friday, October 17th. There could be two ALCS games that day TBD. We don't know the times, we don't know the matchups, but we know there will be a game at least. So we're aiming for that day. October 17th. You have a week to sign up at the Ned Garver tier or above on Patreon if you care to partake. We will probably be doing the second playoff live stream on the 24th or 25th. That will be during the World Series. More details to come. Oh, I also meant to muse that something about that Bryce Harper quote, specifically the the women. Man, what a breed line reminded me of the famous line from the West Wing Season 3, the episode Posse Comitatus, a phrase that many of us have been reminded of lately given current events. Anyway, Governor Richie says crime boy, I don't know. And at the end of that exchange, President Bartlett says in the future, if you're wondering, crime boy, I don't know is when I decided to kick your ass. Women man, what a breed. Crime boy. I don't know something similar about the cadence, the scansion there. My wife got a kick out of that Harper quote. If we have a second kid, I gotta remember remember to tell her that she was an absolute monster doing it. You could be an absolute monster supporting Effectively Wild on Patreon, which you can do by going to patreon.com effectivelywild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some excellent perks. It probably won't take you much longer to sign up than it took Bryce Harper's wife to deliver their fourth child. The following five listeners have already discovered that by signing up UP Nick Newson, Tim White, Kevin Graff, Eric Bullock, and Adam Zucker. Thanks to all of you, Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, the aforementioned multiple playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, personalized messages, discounts on merch and ad free fangrast memberships, and so much more. Check out all the offerings@patreon.com effectivelywild if you are patient Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site Good news, but even if you aren't, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastangraphts.com youm can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Music and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group@facebook.com group effectivelywild. You can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at R Effectivelywild and you can check the show page at fangraph or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we cited today. Thanks to Shane McKean for his editing and production assistance. We will be back with one more episode before the end of the week, which means we will talk to you soon. It's Effectively Wild and it's wildly effective at putting baseball in a perfect perspective. Impressive, smart and impeccably styled, it's the wildly effective, effective Wild Spin Rain Along Shango. You might hear something you never heard before.