Effectively Wild Episode 2394

Title: Swing Hard in Case You Hit It
Date: October 30, 2025
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer) & Meg Rowley (FanGraphs)

Episode Overview

This episode covers World Series Games 4 and 5, including their statistical and narrative significance, the culture of viral, obvious baseball punditry, bullpen and managerial decision-making, and key player performances. Ben and Meg also dig into the Magic Johnson Twitter phenomenon, analyze team and player storylines, and cap off with some entertaining side discussions about playoff rituals, the Jonas Brothers halftime show, and recent MLB news.

Main Themes & Key Discussions

1. “Must Win,” “Have to Win,” and the Magic of Obvious Baseball Commentary

[00:27–07:34]

• Stephen A. Smith & Magic Johnson’s “Analysis”

  • Ben notes the viral power of celebrity analysts stating the obvious (“Blue Jays have to win Game Four”—Stephen A. Smith; “Game 5 is very important”—Magic Johnson).
  • Quote, Ben [02:33]: “This is the kind of non-committal, not especially insightful statement I can get behind... it does sort of circle back around in some sort of horseshoe theory of virality.”
  • Magic Johnson’s posts are celebrated for their earnest, non-edgy banality, contrasting with most social media “poster” culture.
  • Meg [05:11]: “If every insanely rich person posted the way Magic Johnson posted, the world would be an objectively better place.”

• Media Virality & Obviousness

  • Viral content often comes from stating the utterly obvious, especially if a celebrity does it.
  • Comparison to posts like “here’s what time the Super Bowl starts.”

2. World Series Game 4: “Just Baseball” (Blue Jays Win Vs. ‘Fatigued’ Ohtani)

[07:35–15:29]

• Game Pace & Fatigue

  • Game 4 had far less drama than Game 3—shorter, more “routine,” but effective for the Blue Jays’ purposes.
  • Shohei Ohtani started but looked worn after a long Game 3 where he reached base 9 times and had little rest. Dodgers and Angels are credited with optimizing Ohtani’s routine, but even for him, the schedule was a strain.
  • Meg [10:29]: “He looked pretty worn to me... the degree to which he and the teams he has played for have really dialed in his routine... I think it’s a more delicate microchip than we have had to reckon with.”

• Toronto’s Approach & Win

  • Shane Bieber pitched “avoiding mistakes.” Blue Jays assembled their offensive outburst with typical, not spectacular baseball.
  • No major controversies or nail-biters—just a solid postseason win.

3. Dodgers Bullpen Drama & Dave Roberts' Stubbornness

[15:29–22:50]

• Blake Treinen and the “Security Blanket” Problem
  • Repeated use of a seemingly diminished Blake Treinen in high-leverage spots perplexes Ben & Meg.
  • Meg [16:55]: “It is just a disaster every time he comes in to pitch... He is the can of gasoline. He looks quite cooked.”
  • Roberts is described as improved as a postseason manager overall but has occasional “stubborn” stretches with player usage.
  • Even with no clear errors in Game 4, this bullpen management could hurt LA as the series continues.

4. Blue Jays Flexibility & Notable Player Performances

[22:50–30:59]

• Winning Without George Springer
  • Toronto managed to win Game 4 with Springer out, giving them flexibility and confidence.
  • Ben [22:50]: “You have home field advantage essentially for the rest of this series.”
• Shohei Ohtani Praise
  • Ben notes how even John Smoltz is overtaken with admiration for Ohtani on the broadcast, emphasizing how special Ohtani’s achievements are.
  • Ben [23:08]: “That’s one of the few times when Smoltz just sounds as gobsmacked as anyone else, marveling at how good these players are instead of finding fault with them.”

5. Intentional Walks & Playoff Managerial Trends

[30:59–34:54]

• John Schneider & Blue Jays’ Intentional Walk Rates
  • Toronto’s manager is questioned for aggressive use of intentional walks; listener emails and research provide context (6th-most IBBs in regular season).
  • Side anecdote: Addison Barger’s “hotel couchgate” and the frugality of young MLB players, with relatable but curious examples (e.g., sleeping on couches to save a buck, team unwillingness to pay for hotel rooms out of cycle).

6. “Who Does Addison Barger Look Like?”—Listener Segment

[36:49–39:28]

• Substantial feedback from listeners on Barger’s doppelgänger:
  • Most popular: Jason Ritter
  • Others: Casey Affleck, Stuart (Tyler Johnston, Letterkenny), Grant Gustin (bearded), Chris Witaske (“The Bear”), Roy (David Denman), Dave Franco, Dylan Sprouse.

7. The Lost Art of the Starting Pitcher as Protagonist

[39:29–45:18]

• Complete Game Intrigue & Narrative
  • The story-within-the-story of how deep a starter can go, the rarity of complete games, and the emotional attachment fans build with dominant pitchers.
  • Ben [41:34]: “I find that consistent through line of tracking the guy... just more entertaining to me... especially if it’s a really great pitcher like Yamamoto.”

8. The Jonas Brothers World Series Performance Fiasco

[48:34–59:58]

• Fan and Broadcaster Backlash
  • Meg [51:31]: “The tonal shift was completely bizarre... you pivot to the Jonas Brothers doing a ‘this is my fight song’—so bad. What are we doing with this? Are we trying to have a halftime show at a baseball game?”
  • The attempt at a pop music “halftime show” in MLB postseason is described as jarringly discordant—both for its corporate synergy (Mastercard Stand Up To Cancer tie-in) and timing.
  • Both hosts hope it isn’t a harbinger of more such spectacle, noting MLB’s lack of tradition for midgame live music and the uniquely solemn context of the Stand Up To Cancer moment.

9. Blue Jays’ Hitting Surge & The David Popkins Effect

[60:02–68:37]

• Viral ‘Swing Harder’ Philosophy
  • New hitting coach David Popkins receives recognition; Athletic articles detail the Jays’ simple, but impactful, emphasis: swinging harder—but only where it fits a player’s skillset.
  • Ben [64:16]: “It does kind of boil down to they swing harder now and they swing harder without compromising their contact ability... which is pretty important. Best of both worlds.”
  • Credit is also given to development of players like Vlad Jr.; not all “swing harder” narratives fit every hitter.

10. Awards Roundup: Cal Raleigh vs. Aaron Judge “Player of the Year”

[69:02–72:14]

• Ben reviews the logic (and subjectivity) behind end-of-season awards—distinguishing “Player of the Year,” “Most Outstanding,” and MVP, with a focus on Cal Raleigh’s winning accolades for being a standout, notable season distinct from simply being the “most valuable.”

11. Phillies Mini-Controversy: Bryce Harper, Dombrowski, and Trade Speculation

[72:53–87:23]

• Dombrowski’s “Honest” Comments
  • The Phillies President’s mild, factual remarks about Harper “not having an elite year” spark trade talk, which upsets Harper (after DC experiences) and local media, but the hosts see the reaction as overblown.
  • Ben [81:50]: “It is sort of a shame because I… would like to live in a world where a baseball executive or sports executive or leader in any field... could just speak plainly and not kind of have their words twisted…”
  • Meg [79:59]: “If I were him, I would err on the side of not disrupting that relationship because he’s going to be around. But also, I think that this is mostly the fault of sports talk radio in Philly…”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Magic Johnson’s Twitter:

  • Ben [06:34]: “You’re not going to see any community notes on a Magic Johnson tweet because he is just… spitting facts. Essentially.”
  • Meg [05:11]: “If every insanely rich person posted the way Magic Johnson posted, the world would be an objectively better place.”

• Dodgers Bullpen Woes:

  • Meg [16:55]: “It is just a disaster every time he comes in to pitch. He is the can of gasoline. He looks quite cooked.”

• Shohei Ohtani:

  • Ben [23:08]: “That’s one of the few times when Smoltz just sounds as gobsmacked as anyone else, marveling at how good these players are…”

• Jonas Brothers MLB Halftime Show:

  • Meg [51:31]: “...you pivot to the Jonas Brothers doing a ‘this is my fight song’—so bad. What are we doing with this?”

• Blue Jays’ Hitting Approach:

  • Ben [64:16]: “...they swing harder now and they swing harder without compromising their contact ability...which is pretty important.”

• Executives Speaking Honestly:

  • Ben [81:50]: “I would also like a baseball executive asked about the performance of a player to answer honestly about that.”

Timeline of Major Segments

• 00:27–07:34 — Magic Johnson, viral obviousness, sports pundit tone
• 07:35–15:29 — World Series Game 4 recap, Ohtani fatigue
• 15:29–22:50 — Dodgers bullpen management, Treinen usage
• 22:50–30:59 — Blue Jays flexibility, Ohtani admiration, Toronto’s IBB trends
• 30:59–34:54 — Blue Jays walks, Addison Barger’s “couch” saga
• 36:49–39:28 — Addison Barger lookalike guesses
• 39:29–45:18 — Complete game nostalgia, SP drama
• 48:34–59:58 — Jonas Brothers, “halftime show” backlash
• 60:02–68:37 — Blue Jays’ hitting surge, Popkins “swing harder” philosophy
• 69:02–72:14 — Cal Raleigh awards vs. Judge
• 72:53–87:23 — Bryce Harper–Dombrowski–trade talk “controversy”

Final Notes

• Game 5 Recap [87:32–end]: Blue Jays win 6–1; Trey Savage sets World Series rookie K record; Ohtani goes 0-for-4; LA now faces must-win situation ("must win Game 6") in Toronto.
• Listener Corner: More Barger doppelgängers; Blue Jays fans praise Vladdy.
• Look Ahead: Dodgers must rally on Halloween in hostile territory.

Effectively Wild remains a podcast that blends in-depth stats, wry humor, and winking self-reference, perfectly suited for devoted baseball fans who enjoy both the numbers and the narratives that surround October baseball.