Effectively Wild Episode 2401: Just Awards
November 15, 2025
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer), Meg Rowley (FanGraphs)
Guest/Stat Blast: Michael Mountain (Patreon supporter, stathead)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the 2025 MLB awards voting—MVP, Cy Young, and Manager of the Year—exploring the outcomes, processes, and potential flaws or narratives around the results. The hosts also dissect Scott Boras’s infamous wordplay at the GM meetings, discuss the changing nature of baseball awards consensus, reflect on memorable moments from the season, and conclude with a Stat Blast segment from Michael Mountain on quantifying team rivalries and fanbase "pain" throughout history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Scott Boras and Prop Betting in Baseball

[00:35–06:40]

• Ben and Meg discuss Scott Boras’s stance that all prop betting (especially per-pitch props) should be banned due to integrity and player-safety concerns. Boras argues, "You have to elim all of that." (Ben, 01:59)
• Current MLB partial measures are labeled as "reactive," not "proactive." Meg: “Definitionally reactive." (Meg, 06:10)

Insight:

Consensus among the hosts: eliminating prop bets entirely would better protect players and game integrity, with Meg noting that even responsible bettors can see the value in removing points of possible manipulation.

Scott Boras’s Wordplay Recap

[06:40–13:24]

• The hosts poke fun at Boras’s notorious offseason puns:
  • "Nick Martinez...he’s got more gears than an astronomical watch." Ben: "It's just like a weird ass comparison." (07:28)
  • “Zone Ranger” and “Lone Ranger” references for Ranger Suarez. Meg: "Ben, I'm so angry. You know, I'm just like really angry. What?" (08:18)
  • For Tatsuya Imai: "Oh my, he’s that kind of guy…leaves an indelible mark…a Tatsuya, like a tattoo."
• Meg claims Boras would benefit by laying off the puns for a year (“Let them percolate...the Brexit one was the strongest”), and expresses pun fatigue.

Notable Quote:

“Some of these little jokey jokes are not good, Ben. They are.” – Meg Rowley [10:43]

2025 MLB Awards: Trends, Repeat Winners & Voting Patterns

[13:24–45:10]

• Main Theme: 2025 saw a rare wave of back-to-back or repeat award winners:
  • MVPs: Aaron Judge (AL) and Shohei Ohtani (NL)
  • AL Cy Young: Tarik Skubal repeats
  • Manager of the Year: Pat Murphy (Brewers) & Stephen Vogt (Guardians), each for a second consecutive year
    • First-ever instance where both Manager of the Year winners repeated
    • Ben: "It tells you something about that award..."

MVP Voting (AL):

• The Judge vs. Cal Raleigh Debate
  • The only real suspense surrounded the AL MVP: Judge won (17 first-place votes), Cal Raleigh (13).
  • Meg: “I saw a lot of people say...I am going to remember Cal's 2025 season for a very long time...I will not remember this Judge season distinctly..." (17:58)
  • Judge’s consistency vs. Cal’s standout, memorable season as a catcher

Cy Young Voting:

• Paul Skenes’ Unanimous Win
  • Meg finds Skenes’s unanimous win "insulting to Christopher Sanchez" (19:29), pointing to narrow WAR margins and the narrative wave favoring Skenes
  • Discuss "narrative momentum" in voting and note Skenes’s “negative charisma” in commercials (21:50)
    • Ben: "That endears him to me...he is not putting on any kind of facade here." (24:30)
  • Both agree on Sanchez deserving some first-place votes; question voting uniformity.

Changing Awards Process:

• The “groupthink” and “herding” around WAR/statistics result in less debate, more accuracy, but also more predictability and less fun.
  • Ben: “Did WAR kind of ruin MVP voting? In making it more accurate...it also just led to more agreements.” (35:51)
  • Meg: “We don’t really have a lot of goof ass. I am realizing I am enjoying saying goof ass...” (37:56)
• Most voters blend versions of WAR; Meg prefers FanGraphs’ (fit-based) for pitchers, but says all versions are useful in context.

Notable Quotes:

"I am simply surprised by the unanimity of it [the Cy Young vote]..." – Meg (35:10)
"If you had a one win [gap], he had like 98 points of OPS on him...at the end of the day, I think again that it was correct for Cal to get some first place votes." – Meg (47:32)

Player Dogs & Media Sensationalism

[54:46–60:47]

• Media and fans focus excessively on Shohei Ohtani’s dog "Decoy," not enough on Aaron Judge’s dachshunds, Gus and Penny.
  • Ben (on Judge's dogs): “They should be the celebrities because...gigantic Aaron Judge and two tiny dachshunds...”
• Meg: "We don't have to talk that much about anyone's dog..." (54:46)

Guardians/Awards Narrative & J-Ram’s MVP Near-Misses

[60:47–68:34]

• Steven Vogt’s managerial job and the Guardians’ response to the pitch-fixing suspensions; human interest in how tough this was inside the clubhouse.
• José Ramírez: now holds the record for most career MVP "shares" without having won (3.61)—a “semi-dubious” distinction.
  • Meg: "I imagine he'll be a first-ballot Hall of Famer...he's an amazing player." (65:45)

Padres Franchise Turmoil

[68:34–73:11]

• Peter Seidler’s death fuels a potential Padres sale and sows uncertainty.
  • The team’s direction, legal battles in the Seidler family, and risk of “profit margins over winning.”

Stat Blast Segment: Quantifying MLB Rivalries

[73:43–103:46]
Guest: Michael Mountain

Main Theme

Michael unveils his new rivalry metric: tallying "pain points" inflicted between franchises using Baseball-Reference’s Championship Leverage Index and a decay function (pain fades by 50% every 10 years).

How It Works:

• Each team "inflicts pain" by defeating another; playoff and high-leverage games hurt more.
• Used to calculate which rivalries are the fiercest, and which matchups are most one-sided.

Top Rivalries:

• Current #1: Yankees–Red Sox
• #2: Dodgers–Giants
• #3: Dodgers–Padres (top expansion-era rivalry)
• Others in the Top 10: Phillies–Atlanta, Guardians–Tigers, Cubs–Cardinals, Mets–Phillies, more AL/NL East matchups

Notable Historical Timeline:

• Cubs–Giants dominated early 20th century; Cardinals–Dodgers post-WW2
• Giants–Dodgers held #1 until 2004, when Red Sox–Yankees took over after Boston’s comeback
  • Ben: "That's interesting... only 20 years or so that Red Sox–Yankees has been number one." (93:36)

Most Lopsided Rivalries:

• Yankees–Guardians: 296 pain points inflicted by Yankees, only 122 returned

Other Fun Nuggets:

• The least rivalry in baseball: White Sox–Padres (only 9 rivalry points)

Rivalry Weekend "Optimal" Pairings:

• Ideally: Yankees–Red Sox, Dodgers–Padres, Phillies–Atlanta, Guardians–Tigers, etc.

Notable Quotes:

"If you take the harmonic mean of those two values, you get what I'm calling the rival." – Michael Mountain [83:53]
"[It's] more so than a rivalry...that's just bullying." – Ben Lindbergh (84:35)

[Spreadsheet link provided in show notes]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Meg on Boras’s puns: “Some of these little jokey jokes are not good, Ben. They are.” (10:43)
• Ben on Cy Young voting: “It is a little curious that it was 30 to nothing, that Skens pitched a shutout here...” (29:15)
• Meg on Cal Raleigh: “I am going to remember Cal's 2025 season for a very long time and I don't think that's just the Mariners fan in me talking.” (17:58)
• Ben on player ads: “That endears him to me. I'm not saying it's good to sell the product, unless it is, because it's so noticeable, that is not generating any fake enthusiasm...” (24:08)
• Michael Mountain on rivalry calculation: “When both teams are inflicting pain on each other's fan bases regularly and especially in high impact situations.” (77:20)

Episode Timeline

• [00:35–06:40]: Prop betting and integrity in baseball, Scott Boras’s stance
• [06:40–13:24]: Boras’s annual puns, wordplay fatigue
• [13:24–45:10]: MLB awards recap: repeat winners, MVP and Cy Young voting nuances
• [45:10–54:46]: Changing voting due to advanced stats, less “goof ass” ballots, down-ballot debates
• [54:46–60:47]: Ohtani and Judge’s dogs, the media's fixation
• [60:47–68:34]: Guardians’ turbulent year, José Ramírez MVP legacy
• [68:34–73:11]: Padres owner death, sale rumors, franchise stability fears
• [73:43–103:46]: Stat Blast: Rivalry and pain metrics by Michael Mountain, optimal rivalry weekend
• [104:11–end]: Blue Jays’ pull-out couch, coach poaching, episode close

Episode Takeaways

• 2025’s MLB awards voting was surprisingly chalky—repeat winners and unanimous selections led to less controversy but sparked debate about narrative, memorability, and the “fun” of awards discourse.
• Consensus around advanced analytics, especially WAR, has streamlined but possibly sterilized MVP/Cy Young voting.
• Scott Boras’s quips still amuse and annoy in equal measure.
• Stathead guest Michael Mountain’s rivalry metric provides fresh statistical context for team rivalries and fan suffering, affirming and quantifying much of the received wisdom about baseball’s most bitter or lopsided enmities.
• The baseball world is still trying to figure out what makes an MVP truly “valuable”—stats, position, narrative, and unforgettable moments all play a role.

For listeners, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how awards are decided, why some seasons and players linger in memory, and how rivalries—and fan agony—get built up over time.