Effectively Wild Episode 2410: "You Can Observe a Lot By Watching"

FanGraphs Baseball Podcast, December 5th, 2025
Host: Ben Lindbergh
Guests: Sam Miller (Co-host emeritus, Pebble Hunting Substack), Chris Handel (Scorekeeper), John Yandel (San Francisco Giants Batting Practice Pitcher)

Episode Overview

Episode 2410 opens with Ben Lindbergh welcoming back co-host emeritus Sam Miller for wide-ranging banter about old baseball predictions, note-taking, and the art of observation. Scorekeeper Chris Handel joins to conclude a decade-old under-25 pitcher draft competition, and the episode later features a deep-dive interview with John Yandel—batting practice pitcher for the Giants since 1985. Discussion ranges from how evolving stats and technology change baseball’s landscape, the role of memory and note-taking in writing and fandom, to staying sharp (and humble) in the persistent march of time.

Segment 1: Wrapping Up the Decade-Old Under-25 Pitcher Draft

[00:36 - 13:37]

Summary & Discussion Points

• Chris Handel returns to reveal final results of a 2015 draft where Ben & Sam selected 10 starting pitchers each under 25, tracking their WARP over 10 years.
• WARP (Wins Above Replacement Player) calculations have changed, dramatically shaking up the outcomes that had favored Ben in prior years.
• Noteworthy: Ben initially led in 'old WARP,' but Sam wins in 2025's recalculation (Score: Sam 65, Ben 62.8), illustrating how evolving metrics can rewrite history.
• Some picks “aged” out, others unexpectedly improved:
  • Ben’s biggest loss: Carlos Martinez (-6.4 WARP in recalculation).
  • Sam’s surprise gains: Aaron Sanchez (+4), Eddie Butler (+4), Michael Lorenzen (+2.5).
• "Remembering Some Guys": Nostalgic and humorous reflection on forgotten names like Tim Cooney and Nick Martinez, whose careers took surprising turns.
• Meta-observations:
  • Drafts’ outcomes are susceptible to shifting statistical methods.
  • The exercise highlights the unpredictable nature of projecting baseball careers and just how differently things look after a decade.

Notable Quotes

• "I think I see what happened here... Sam wins by a score of 65 to 62.8 because WARP calculations have changed a great deal." – Chris ([03:50])
• "This is definitely remembering some guys." – Chris ([06:14])
• "Do you realize that we drafted guys who get Tommy John?" – Sam ([12:29])

Timestamps

• [02:41] – Origins of the under-25 draft
• [03:48] – Announcement of the winner
• [05:12] – Reviewing team rosters and surprising stat shifts
• [07:10] – Speculating about the 'optimal' picks with hindsight

Segment 2: On the Evolution of Stats, Nostalgia, and Getting Ripped

[13:37 - 18:33]

Key Points

• Discussion turns philosophical: How projections, statistical changes, and time distort our perceptions of both players and ourselves.
• A humorous detour: Sam congratulates Ben on getting "ripped," in a rare bit of body talk, reflecting on how routines and bodies change with time.
• Analogies to "best shape of his life" baseball cliches and callbacks to earlier episodes.

Notable Quotes

• "He looks sexy. Have you seen that body?" – Sam ([15:31])
• "You are in better shape than Tim Cooney right now." – Sam ([18:28])

Timestamps

• [14:00] – The “ripped” discussion begins
• [17:13] – How exercising habits change with age

Segment 3: The Sonoma Stompers Redux—If We Did It Again

[18:33 - 25:57]

Key Points

• Listeners ask if Ben and Sam’s famous 2015 "Stompers" book experiment (“The Only Rule Is It Has to Work”) would play out differently in 2025.
• Sam contends the experiment would inevitably shift:
  • Players today are much more tech- and data-savvy.
  • Experiment’s edge is dulled: “All that stuff is happening in the actual games now…what do teams not do now that we out here say, oh, they should do this?”
• Ben: Logistics and the spirit of the wild experiment would be lost; teams are already pushing every available boundary.
• Both conclude: Player development would be the modern focus—not “searching spreadsheets for talent,” but “can we make these guys better?”

Notable Quotes

• "It's advanced beyond our capacity to even make sense of the data if we manage to gather it." – Ben ([22:06])
• "Maybe that was the last possible time we could do an experiment like that and have it seem actually bold and boundary-pushing." – Ben ([25:57])

Timestamps

• [19:24] – Listener questions about the Stompers redux
• [21:28] – Technological/analytical change since 2015
• [23:31] – “Nerd in the dugout” now commonplace

Segment 4: "Pebble Hunting" and the Art of Observing

[25:57 - 49:21]

Key Points

• Ben explores Sam’s unique writing approach on his Pebble Hunting Substack: Daily entries (usually about a single game event, curiosity, or unnoticed baseball gem), acting as a timeless baseball diary.
• Sam’s methodology: Instead of covering headlines, each piece is idiosyncratic, focused on what he remembers or observes (e.g., “never see again” plays, first pitches, small oddities).
• No announced theme or daily project: Sam avoids declaring season-long commitments to prevent burnout.
• Meta-discussion:
  • Modern newsletter writing environment is more siloed (“It is no longer a sharing Internet.”).
  • His goal: write about things “that will be interesting forever.”
• **Ben likens “Pebble Hunting” to “How To with John Wilson,” i.e., documenting quirky, overlooked details to craft a larger portrait of the game.

Notable Quotes

• "You're usually not writing about something people already know they're interested in. You're writing about things they didn't know they were interested in and hopefully will become interested in over the course of reading." – Ben ([33:36])
• "I think in some ways I've had some really interesting insights that wouldn't have occurred to me otherwise." – Sam ([36:55])
• "Thanks for saying... I think it's really good. Like, I think I'm doing good work." – Sam ([48:17])

Timestamps

• [27:33] – “Pebble Hunting” diary structure explained
• [31:37] – The philosophy of timelessness/memory in sports writing
• [41:28] – Comparing Pebble Hunting archive to a time capsule
• [48:17] – Reflections on the solitude and reward of newsletter work

Segment 5: What Will Be Remembered from 2025?

[49:27 - 62:42]

Key Points

• Annual tradition: What will be the single defining memory of this MLB season?
  • Offers: Ohtani’s postseason heroics; the Dodgers—potential dynasty; Cal Raleigh's record; the Rockies’ historically bad season; Emmanuel Clase betting scandal; the All-Star “swing off.”
  • Debate over whether Ohtani “overwrites” himself as the answer year after year.
• **Ben & Sam: Sometimes it is a single game or player that becomes an era-defining memory.

Notable Quotes

• “You and I might have to specify [which Ohtani game], but I think that for some decades the Ohtani game will not require specification.” – Sam ([51:20])
• “I think his memorable years are still his memorable years.” – Sam ([53:40])

Timestamps

• [49:27] – Setting up “What Will Be Remembered”
• [53:40] – Ohtani's ongoing redefinition of the memorable moment

Segment 6: A Day in the Life—Baseball as Observation and State of Mind

[62:42 - 64:38]

Key Points

• Sam and Ben reflect on the intensity of watching baseball, their daily routines, and the value of relentless curiosity, humility, and gratitude in work and fandom.
• Emphasis on “liking” the work: Sam discusses preserving the sense of play and inquiry, resisting the grind mentality.

Notable Quotes

• "I felt curious about baseball throughout this year...it was good to feel the curiosity." – Sam ([64:16])
• “Humility, gratitude, and curiosity...encourage and help grow all the other positive states of mind.” – Sam ([64:16])

Timestamps

• [64:16] – Personal lessons from watching and writing about baseball

Segment 7: Interview with Giants Batting Practice Legend John Yandel

[65:57 - 121:18]

Summary

Ben interviews John Yandel, Giants’ batting practice pitcher for over four decades, about his unique dual career, the craft and grind of BP pitching, and his memories of MLB legends.

Key Discussion Points

• Yandel’s background:
  • Pitched in minors, drafted by Padres, made it to AAA.
  • Nearly had arm surgery, but physical resilience allowed him to continue.
• How he became a batting practice pitcher:
  • Serendipity: friend on Giants, need for a lefty BP arm.
  • Was originally paid $20/game, juggled with a parallel real estate executive career.
• Challenges:
  • Evolving club management, technological changes (traject arc machines).
  • Keeping arm healthy: off-season routines, post-injury comebacks, keys for longevity (“Don’t be stupid with it and try to throw as hard as you can without warming up…” – [97:48]).
• On technology supplanting BP pitchers:
  • Machines provide value, but players still prefer a live arm for rhythm/routine.
  • Tech lag: trajectory machines slow, can’t travel easily; changing BP culture (some hitters prefer machines, some want a pitcher).
• On his relationship with players:
  • Known for consistency, “Cutter John” nickname from early days in Candlestick winds.
  • Strong bond with Barry Bonds, who advocated for him and credited Yandel with a “huge part of my career.”
  • Describes Bonds’ work ethic and approach to hitting, defends him against caricature (“He worked out harder than anybody I've ever seen…” – [114:25]).
• Favorite/least favorite hitters to throw to:
  • Once called out by Dan Gladden for not throwing hard enough, obliged by bringing the heat.
  • Reflective about being a servant to the player's needs: “I've never told anybody I won't throw.” – [108:51]
• The future of his gig:
  • Realistic about potential for the machine, but treasures human connection.
  • Has become the Giants’ longest-tenured on-field member, a symbol of continuity.
  • Advice: Appreciate the luck and joy of the unique baseball life.

Notable Quotes

• “Once I'm known as Sinker John because of gravity, then that's when I'll quit.” – Yandel ([88:19])
• "You always wonder whether you're going to be replaced by some mechanical arm or not. Yeah, but so far it hasn't happened. And if it does, and you know, I've had a great career, but I think people still like to see an arm." – Yandel ([103:20])
• “I've never in my whole 42 year now career ever told anybody I couldn't throw to them." – Yandel ([108:51])
• “Barry worked out harder than anybody I've ever seen...he was just never fooled. So. Yeah, and always on balance." – Yandel ([114:25])
• "A lot of times I've thought, okay, maybe this will be my last year...and then you step out on the field and you go, no, that's not it. I love it." – Yandel ([120:47])

Timestamps

• [67:41] – Self-scouting as a pitcher, entry to Giants
• [74:53] – Living with dreams and limits, dual career life
• [84:07] – Arm injury, comeback, and sticking power
• [105:52] – Relationship with Barry Bonds
• [110:17] – Bonds’ personality, worth ethic, and approach

Segment 8: Follow-ups & Listener Stats

[121:19 - 131:30]

Highlights

• Ben offers in-depth stats follow-up:
  • Final true results from the WARP draft ("if we had used FanGraphs WAR, I would have won!").
  • Optimal draft check: Best possible WARP haul with perfect selection.
  • Whatever happened to Tim Cooney? Ben tracks him down: retired from baseball, Wharton MBA, now at Vanguard.
  • Barry Bonds’ batting average after five-pitch PAs: Actually lower than total average, but drop-off not as steep as league peers—a testament to Bonds' greatness.
• Quick news round-up: Rockies hire Josh Byrnes as GM, minor off-season transactions.
• Listener engagement: Spotify Wrapped/top listener stats, gratitude for Patreon backers.

Notable Quotes

• “It seems like listening to every episode we publish this year gets you only into the top 3 or 4% of listeners, which means a considerable number of you have not only listened to every day new episode as it's come out, but also listen to some old ones or listen to some multiple times. We always do well in these things because we put out a lot of episodes.” – Ben ([128:05])

Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I think I see what happened here. ... The winner is Sam Miller.” – Chris, [03:48]
• “Do you realize that we drafted guys who get Tommy John?” – Sam, [12:29]
• “He looks sexy. Have you seen that body?” – Sam to Ben, [15:31]
• “All that stuff is happening in the actual games...” – Ben, [23:01]
• “You're writing about things they didn't know they were interested in and hopefully will become interested in over the course of reading.” – Ben, [33:36]
• “Thanks for saying... I think it's really good. Like, I think I'm doing good work.” – Sam, [48:17]
• “Once I'm known as Sinker John because of gravity, then that's when I'll quit.” – John Yandel, [88:19]
• “I've never in my whole 42 year now career ever told anybody I couldn't throw to them.” – John Yandel, [108:51]
• "Barry worked out harder than anybody I've ever seen...he was just never fooled." – John Yandel, [114:25]
• “A lot of times I've thought, okay, maybe this will be my last year...and then you step out on the field and you go, no, that's not it. I love it.” – John Yandel, [120:47]
• "So, if anyone has ideas for something that can beat the Ohtani game, write in.” – Ben, [61:13]

Final Takeaways

• Reflectiveness, humility, and awe define both the hosts’ attitude and their approach to baseball, fandom, and change, offering a humane contrast to the game’s cold stats and relentless churn.
• Long-term observation—whether of careers, stats, or daily baseball oddities—can be humbling and enlightening. Sam’s Pebble Hunting diary, the amusing failure (or occasional success) of decade-old prediction drafts, and Yandel’s lifetime on the mound all reveal the delight in watching, remembering, and adapting.
• Most lasting lesson: Almost everything is dispensable and subject to change, but the unique voice or the personal touch—whether in writing, pitching, or watching carefully—remains irreplaceable.