Effectively Wild Episode 2412: It’s the Most Punderful Time of the Year

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2412: "It’s the Most Punderful Time of the Year"

Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer), Meg Rowley (FanGraphs)
Theme: The annual (and semi-annual) tradition of Scott Boras free-agent puns at the MLB Winter Meetings, plus analysis of major signings (Kyle Schwarber to Phillies, Edwin Diaz to Dodgers), industry trends, and a bit of offbeat baseball and sports culture discussion.

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Episode Overview

This episode celebrates one of baseball’s offseason rituals: Scott Boras’s pun-filled standup routines at the MLB Winter Meetings, where the superagent is notorious for corny, elaborate wordplay about his clients and their markets. Ben and Meg react to the new crop of Boras puns line by line, providing live critiques, laughter, and groans, before turning to real baseball news with two big signings and broader offseason observations. The episode closes with industry gossip, a college football “PR dog” scandal, and musings on baseball-adjacent pop culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scott Boras Pun Tradition

Time: [00:30] - [29:10]

• Why Focus on Boras’s Puns?

  • Boras’s yearly pun-filled soliloquy at media gatherings has become a unique part of MLB’s free agent season.
  • Even as major signings break during his speeches, Boras’s puns remain a focal point for media and fans alike.
  • Ben and Meg feel “pun-comitted”—duty-bound to analyze the wordplay for posterity.

• Live Reactions to the New Puns

  • Meg did not attend Boras’s scrum and is subject to the puns "cold," providing genuine, real-time feedback.
  • Discussion covers:
    • Delivery quirks (e.g., Boras often postfixes with “no doubt” or “without a doubt”).
    • Is anyone in the scrum genuinely laughing or merely humoring Boras as a source?
    • The suspicion that Boras sometimes gets assistance or workshops his better punchlines.

Boras’s Notable Puns (with Speaker Attribution & Timestamps):

On Tatsuya Imai:
[05:09]

“Believe me, in my wildest dreams, I never expected someone to be available like that.”
—Scott Boras

• Meg’s reaction: "I'm going to allow it… it's an acceptable one… but again, not great. I didn't chuckle."
• Discussion of potential cultural sensitivity.

On Alex Bregman:
[07:16]

“In October, it's Alex in Wonderland. And it's a really... scheduled event, no doubt.”
—Scott Boras

• Ben: "You can tell he's locked in on Bregman—seems like he brings his A game."
• Meg: “I think the Bregman pun work is pretty strong... is he getting an assist on those?”

On Ranger Suarez:
[11:09]

“When you add a Suarez, I think everyone knows you're... you're armed and rangerous. Without a doubt.”
—Scott Boras

• Meg: “If he didn't have the ‘without a doubt,’ it would work. ‘Rangerous’... I don't know what that sounds like to me, but it sounds problematic somehow.”

On Pete Alonso:
[13:24]

“Pete lives in Tampa. It’s rather warm there. So the polar vortex of last year is kind of thawed... That prior bear market is exhausted. So now we kind of have the running of the bulls in Tamploosa.”
—Scott Boras

• Meg: “Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You’re doing too much, buddy.”
• Analysis:
  • “Tamploosa” is a flub on Pamplona (site of 'running of the bulls’).
  • Bear market/polar vortex/Alonso-as-polar-bear wordplay is "a catastrophe."

On Tarek Skubal:
[19:00]

“He's truly a saber-proof Tiger. If you want to look at the tail of the Tiger... without Scoobs, they're a Mystery Machine.”
—Scott Boras

• Meg: "One of those would be fine, but again, he's doing too much. It's a hat on a hat."
• Praise for “saber-proof Tiger,” groans at the Scooby Doo/tail of the Tiger stacking.

On Zac Gallen:
[22:28]

“For Zac, it's high quality. Never crude, always refined. And when you pull up to the pitching pump, you know a Gallen is always premium. He's exactly a rotation fit, no doubt.”
—Scott Boras

• Ben: "The structure had an issue. He started in with the gas analogy before he explained the joke."

On Cody Bellinger (with coded team references):
[25:03]

“Great players see red. If they don't, they lose or know they have a big bat yanked out of their lineup. I haven't met a team that dodges a five-tool player. The center field need is a giant step towards the playoffs. Outfielders that fly with power, they're rare birds. ... There's a lot of angel investors looking for versatile outfielders. Other than that, Belly doesn’t have much interest.”
—Scott Boras

• Ben walks through the "code": Yankees ('yanked'), Reds ('see red'), Dodgers ('dodges'), Giants ('giant step'), Orioles/Cardinals ('rare birds'), Angels ('angel investors'), and Mets ('I haven’t MET a team').
• Meg: "He's just naming teams at this point... too much work."

Rating the 2025 Class of Boras Puns

• Meg: "The Bregman ones are good. Half the Skubal ones work. The Alonzo stuff is a catastrophe... The exercise receives a failing grade."
• Ben: "I feel a bit better about the latest crop than the GM Meetings set."

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2. Real Baseball News: Phillies, Dodgers, and Market Trends

Time: [34:28] - [66:05]

Kyle Schwarber Re-signs with the Phillies

[36:02]

• Details: Five-year, $150 million contract; returns as fan favorite and DH.
• Meg: "He's a really important part of their team and clubhouse... culture carrier and stabilizing force."
• Discussion:
  • Schwarber's role in team chemistry and on-field contributions.
  • "I think it's more money than I anticipated him getting… I underestimated his market. The Orioles matched the Phillies' offer, Reds were also at five years…"
• Potential downside [65:18]:
  • Both Schwarber and Bryce Harper may be DH-only soon, leading to future roster inflexibility.

Edwin Diaz to the Dodgers

[52:05]

• Details: Three years, $69 million (note: with deferrals, $21.1M AAV for luxury tax).
• Ben: "By recent Dodger standards, this is a drop in the bucket."
• Meg: "Such a Dodger signing... They don't really have a shopping list, but if you need to spend $23 million a year to make October easier, that's tidy, easy business."
• Discussion:
  • Diaz’s recent statistical slippage; sustained elite status, but “not quite as good as at his peak.”
  • Dodgers' unique position: able to “throw money at problems that are otherwise annoying."
  • Comparison to other clubs’ motives for spending (e.g., Pirates/Marlins for revenue-sharing optics).

On the Pirates and Marlins Spending More

[48:01]

• Ben references an article suggesting small-market spending may be about avoiding future CBA revenue-sharing reductions more than a real intention to improve.

Minor Signings and Pitching Market

[72:29] and [73:24]

• Rays sign Steven Matz; burst of American pitchers returning from Japan/Korea (Anthony Kay, Ryan Weiss, Drew Anderson).
• Ben highlights the intrigue of whether their pitching successes in Asia translate back to MLB roles.

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3. Broader Offseason Themes & MLB Labor Context

Time: [32:53] & [34:53]

• Uncertainty over next winter due to looming CBA expiration and potential lockout; winter meetings may not be held in 2026.
• Meg: “It is casting something of a pall over the proceedings… there is an understanding… of the precarity of the sport after this CBA expires…”
• Teams are “not content just to have been Contenders”—urgency from Phillies and others to win now as windows for current cores begin to close.

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4. Pop Culture/Offbeat Segments

Time: [66:05] - end

Ippei Mizuhara Dramatization Lands at Starz

[66:15]

• Planned docudrama about Shohei Ohtani's former interpreter Ippei Mizuhara and the gambling scandal.
• Ben is skeptical: “By the time it comes out, it will literally be old news… would it be entertaining to watch someone gamble on their phone?”
• Meg and Ben riff on the peculiarities of sports bio-dramas.

Lane Kiffin "PR Dog" Scandal

[75:32]

• Lane Kiffin, college football coach, is revealed to have possibly faked his dog’s “public” persona to rehabilitate his own image—a story Meg gleefully ties to her jokes about Ohtani’s dog being a PR invention.
• Ben: “Even having dogs does not make you a good person… even Cruella de Vil had Dalmatians.”

Cruella de Vil & Fur Lore

• Surreal tangent on the Disney villain’s motivation and Hollywood’s dog-fur logic.

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5. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• [14:54] Meg Rowley (on Boras mixing up cities): "Tamploosa makes no sense. He had to have just goosed that. ... Tamploosa's wrong. That's wrong. He just got it wrong."
• [31:10] Meg Rowley (grading Boras): "The exercise receives a failing grade because of how bad that answer was."
• [34:16] Ben Lindbergh: "You have to appreciate the puns while we have them—they're precious. We'll be wishing for Boras puns next year if there's no Winter Meetings."
• [36:21] Meg Rowley (on Schwarber): "He's DH only. He is real, real, real, real DH only at this point. Birds, Birds, Birds, Birds."
• [46:44] Ben Lindbergh (on Orioles): "Frequent refrain on this podcast... What on earth. Please… what are you doing? Go sign a starting pitcher."
• [52:22] Meg Rowley: "I am a little bit of a Dodgers provocateur. Not of the Dodgers, but of the Dodger haters..."
• [82:56] Ben Lindbergh: "I won't call it vindication, but at least the concept has been vindicated," referencing Meg's PR dog theory.

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Timestamps: Notable Segments

• 00:30 — Setting the scene: Winter meetings, Boras tradition
• 05:09 — First Boras pun (Tatsuya Imai)
• 07:16 — Alex Bregman puns
• 11:09 — Ranger Suarez: "Armed and Rangerous"
• 13:24 — Pete Alonso: "Bear market"/"Tamploosa"
• 19:00 — Skubal: "Saber-proof Tiger” + “Mystery Machine”
• 22:28 — Zac Gallen: “A Gallen is always premium”
• 25:03 — Bellinger: “Team code” wordplay
• 36:02 — Phillies re-sign Schwarber; contract reactions
• 52:05 — Dodgers sign Edwin Diaz: analysis + context
• 66:15 — Ippei drama series at Starz
• 75:32 — Lane Kiffin "PR dog" saga
• 85:00 — Disney villains’ dog fur couture tangent

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Overall Tone & Style

• Witty, skeptical, extremely inside-baseball.
• Meg: Deadpan, acerbic, and lovingly exasperated with both Boras and MLB foibles.
• Ben: Analytical, wry, detail-oriented, and patient, but with flashes of sharp commentary.

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Summary Table: Boras Puns and Analysis

| Player | Boras Pun(s) | Hosts’ Reaction | Timestamp | |----------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Tatsuya Imai | "...in my wildest dreams..." | Acceptable, not offensive, not funny | 05:09 | | Alex Bregman | "Alex in Wonderland ... regularly scheduled event, no doubt." | Among the best; possible “assist” from others | 07:16 | | Ranger Suarez | "Armed and rangerous. Without a doubt." | Would work without “without a doubt”; awkward | 11:09 | | Pete Alonso | "Polar vortex has thawed... bear market ... running of the bulls in Tamploosa." | “A catastrophe.” Too much; city name error | 13:24 | | Tarek Skubal | "Saber-proof Tiger ... Mystery Machine." | Good core, ruined by overstacking/hats-on-hats | 19:00 | | Zac Gallen | “Never crude, always refined ... Gallen is always premium.” | Structure off; analogy not clean | 22:28 | | Cody Bellinger | “Yanked ... see red ... dodges a five-tool player ... rare birds ... angel investors ...” | Just team-listing; strained, forced, not special | 25:03 |

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Final Thoughts

This episode affectionately skewers the spectacle of MLB’s offseason theater, using Boras’s puns as a launching pad for serious and not-so-serious commentary about baseball’s business, culture, and ongoing storylines. The hosts’ mix of critique and appreciation gives listeners both a clear window into this unique baseball ritual and the wider forces shaping MLB’s offseason—and plenty of laughs along the way.

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For newcomers:
You’ll come away understanding why Scott Boras’s puns matter (or don’t), which free agent moves are shaking up the winter, and what makes the hot stove season a unique blend of earnest business and pure ridiculousness in the hands of Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley.

Transcript

[Meg Rowley]

It's effectively wild.

It's effectively wild.

Wetland bike.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And back rally.

[Meg Rowley]

Hello and welcome to episode 2412 of Effectively Wild, a Fan Graphs baseball podcast, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Rowley of fangraphs and I'm joined by Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer. Ben, how are you?

[Ben Lindbergh]

I am relieved that we have some stuff to talk about. We ended our last episode with me prodding you to tell teams to do something right because we had to record the day after our preceding episode. Sometimes, if enough news is not accrued in the interim can be a scramble. We have to dig deep. But we don't have to dig as deep as I feared because some news has happened as we record here on Tuesday afternoon. And of course I refer to to one of the most powerful figures in baseball entertaining the assembled writers with his latest puns. Yes, Scott Boris set up his little backdrop and he delighted everyone with his latest lines. And I assumed that you were not able to attend the Boris scrum. Yeah, it was a busy time because some other agencies stole Boris's thunder a bit by leaking news or news having happened while Boris was up there. The spotlight is on him. And then the news comes out that the Phillies have resigned Kyle Schwarber. Yes, the Dodgers have signed Edward Diaz and suddenly probably people had to flock elsewhere to file stories while Scott was still standing there doing his spiel. But we will give him his due here as we always must. But yeah, you had to scramble, I assume to assign some posts or get some people who pre wrote posts to spruce them up with the specifics. So we have a couple of signings to talk about after we do our pun review.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, I, you know, this was, this was the rare pre write double up where Jjaffe had both Diaz and Schwerber in his. His little group of assigned guys. And so Michael Bauman took the the Diaz signing so that we could get get going, keep the trains moving, as it were. But yeah, I was as a result of to attend Boris's scrum because look, the puns will pun, but the news is gonna news. And as much as it might annoy Scott, the one is a much bigger priority than the other.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So yeah, the puns are either evergreen or never green, depending on your perspective. So that won't change.

[Meg Rowley]

Yes, agreed.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We're pot committed at this point. We're pun committed. We must report. We're duty bound to report the latest Boris puns. And maybe I'll be breaking Boris news to you here if you weren't there and you haven't caught up, then maybe you haven't heard these.

[Meg Rowley]

Not even one single pun. I have not. I have not heard even one.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay, well, we'll get your real time reactions to hearing these things for the first time and I'll read them to you. But we're available when we have clips from someone who captured them. And thanks to those who do. For whatever reason, the SNY Twitter account posted a lot of the clips. The actual delivery really does add something to see and especially hear Boris deliver these lines. So where we can. We'll have producer Shane drop in the original line readings by Scott Boris here, which are, are not the smoothest, I will say. Sometimes he has to fumble for them a bit, which is understandable because he's got so many and he has memorized them, I guess. And yet he has to wait for someone to ask him about these clients. His worst nightmare is probably he prepares a line and nobody asks him about that particular free agent and he just has to leave that on the cutting room floor. So you can see how happy he is to be able to deploy these things. But he also has to summon them from his memory. And sometimes you can hear him kind of reaching for the line a little bit and sometimes he flubs the delivery, but then he just powers through and gets to it eventually anyway. And he has this mischievous little grin flitting across his face as he does it. It's just, you got to see it or hear it at least it helps. But. But here's what we got from Scott. So remember last time we said, well, he's probably not going to do this with Tatsuya Imai, even though there's obviously a lot of material there, you know, maybe cultural sensitivities and he'll refrain. And then I realized that no, he hadn't refrained. Actually, he had. He had gone for one. But it was the lowest hanging fruit.

[Meg Rowley]

Yes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It was like, oh my. Instead, you know, my. Here's his latest on Tatsuya Imai.

[Scott Boris]

Like Imai, you have a.

27 year old pitcher who throws 98, 99. You know, teams look at that and say, you know, that. Believe me, in my wildest dreams, I never expected someone to be available like that.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, look, I'm going to allow it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Mm.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm still not enthused about these. And I, I'm holding fast in my belief that he should just take it a, a year or two off and, and look, next year there probably won't be any deals done because of A lockout. And so perhaps he feels the need to get them all out now, you know, because he might not be able to pun in the same way. Lockouts are serious business. You can't be out here making jokes. But I, you know, I'll allow it. I think that it's of the. Of the potential in my puns. It's. It's an acceptable one. You know, it's like we talked about. You are in.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You.

[Meg Rowley]

You're in potentially dangerous territory when you're punning on. On names like that. But I think this one's okay. But again, not great. I didn't chuckle.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Maybe he sought permission from Imai before he deployed these puns. Perhaps. But it's funny. This is a little pulling back the curtain. Shane will have edited this out, but the first time I read this to you, Hotel Wi Fi disconnected you just as I was starting to read the pun. And then all I heard when I finished was protracted dead silence. And I thought that that was your natural reaction to hearing that pun, that you were just totally. No. Selling it. And then I looked and I thought, oh, Meg is gone. But that wouldn't have been a terrible reaction either.

[Meg Rowley]

That's great. You're like, wow, she's really committed to the Big Year.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. This was on Alex Bregman, who seems to bring out the best in Boris.

[Scott Boris]

You're talking one of the few regular everyday players that has eight consecutive postseason appearances.

So, you know, in October, it's Alex in Wonderland. And it's a really.

Scheduled event, no doubt.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, so you're right that I think from a pure joke construction perspective, he seems to really be locked in on Bregman. Right. He's like, he's in a zone when he has Bregman to work with. And there is a sort of a wisdom to acknowledging that this is another pass through, but also they're hoping that this isn't regularly. Is that what he went with regularly?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. He had a hard time getting that out.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Because it's hard to say regularly scheduled event.

[Meg Rowley]

They're hoping that it's not a regularly scheduled event. I did much better on the second pass. I'm so proud of myself. Because they're hoping that he's going to sign a long term deal. Right?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, that's true, I guess. I think he's saying that if you sign Alex Bregman, it will be a regularly scheduled event for you to be playing in October.

[Meg Rowley]

I see, I see, I see, I see. Okay, so he's not. I see, I see.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But it has been a regularly scheduled event for him to have to say punt.

[Meg Rowley]

Regularly scheduled event. I think, you know, I think the Bergman pun work is pretty strong, you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Know, I think so too.

[Meg Rowley]

I wonder, is he getting an assist on those ones?

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, you can tell when he brought in someone to punch up the puns. Yeah, yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

He's like, okay, I'll go to my writer's room on this one. Maybe he has a sensitivity reader in the writer's room. And so he's like, these are my jokes are fine.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's probably it. Yeah. I was speaking of regularly scheduled event. It's odd that he has to go back to this well so soon after the GM meetings because the, the two big events and I guess the off season is sort of the season for Scott Boris. This is the main event for him. But he has to empty his pun bag in November at the GM meetings and then turn right around in December at the winter meetings and have a whole fresh set. So I, I wonder if we could compare and I guess we kind of have. But I wonder whether he saves the best material for the winter meetings. I don't know that I've discerned a real difference in the quality of the puns from one event to the next. But does he come up with this all at once and then he says, okay, here's my GM meetings material, here's my winter meetings material. Or does he get through the GM meetings material and then sort of read the room, assess the reaction and then use that to workshop the winter meetings material? If we ever have him on again, we'll have to dive into that.

[Meg Rowley]

We'll just have to make sure no one in his office listened to any of our past episodes about it because the reviews are getting a little more critical as time goes on.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Although I feel a bit better about the latest crop of puns than I did about this, this year's GM meetings set. So another thing I've noticed about him, and we heard it in that Bregman one about to give another example, he has a little tick when he does this. He'll say the line and then he'll add a no doubt at the end or, or without a doubt. He'll. It's like he can't just let it land. He's. I think it speaks to a certain lack of self confidence in the material that you're right. Yeah. Cuz you, you should just end with it's a regularly scheduled event. But he always, he appends this no doubt to the end of It. It's almost like to signal that the pun is. To signal that it was one.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Because I don't know, it's just a thing that he does. And I think the delivery would be improved if he could excise that and just let the pun stand on its own. And here's another example of that in.

[Scott Boris]

The postseason, when you. You add a Suarez, I think everyone knows you're, you know, you're armed and rangerous. Without a doubt.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay. I think if he didn't have the without a doubt, it would work.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

But not. But it. Rangerous.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Armed and rangerous.

[Meg Rowley]

I don't know what that sounds like to me, but it sounds problematic somehow. I can't quite put my finger on it, and I don't think I'm. I'm inclined to give a ton of explanation, but something about that doesn't sit.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Right. As I. As I sit here with it longer, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

I just. Next. Next year. Well, again, we probably won't have winter meetings next year because of lockout, but the next time he does a stand up like this, I need to. I need to make sure I can go. And I don't think I'm going to even really look at him. I want to sit. Stand, like, off to the side a bit and watch these wash over, you know, our colleagues in the assembled media.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Because I'm curious if anyone, like, really cracks a genuine smile or if they're just like, oh, Scott, man.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. There's a lot of snickering or obligatory chuckling. I don't know. It seems like media members insist that they're over it, and some of them are just too cool for school, too cool for Scott, and they're kind of jaded, cynical about this whole exercise. But then there is some laughter. And I don't know whether it's just that it would be awkward not to laugh and they're kind of humoring him or he's a source for them. They're buttering him up. Right. So, yeah, I'd like to see how this would play to a different audience, because the audience of people who dutifully gather round to transcribe these things and capture them, they do have sort of a vested interest in staying on Scott's good side. So I don't know how genuine it is. Okay, here's another one on Peter Alonso.

[Scott Boris]

You know, Pete lives in Tampa. It's rather warm there. So the polar vortex of last year is kind of thawed. So.

You know, the.

The prior market.

You know, this market is that prior bear market is exhausted. So now we kind of have the. The running of the bulls in Tampaloosa.

[Meg Rowley]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I'm pretty sure he's done bear market before.

[Meg Rowley]

He's absolutely done bear market before. But mostly. Scott, you're doing. You're doing too much, buddy. You're doing.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He's stacking them on top of.

[Meg Rowley]

You're stacking too many things. Tamplusa.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. That's. Was this a flub by him? Because. Because it's. Pamplona is where they do the running of the bulls. So should it have been. Should it have been.

Right? I assume. Unless I'm. I'm missing some other extra joke here. But. But.

[Meg Rowley]

But no. Ben, no short circuiting. I'm so bad at this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

This one.

[Meg Rowley]

Read the first part again.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. You have no idea how many tabs I have open here. Okay. Pete lives in Tampa. It's rather warm there. The polar vortex of last year has kind of thawed. This is referring to Alonso's bear market last year. That prior bear market is exhausted. Now we have the running of the bulls in Tamploosa.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay. So Tamploosa makes no sense. He had to have just. He had to have just goosed that. Yes, because it doesn't make Tamploosa. Tamplusa isn't. And there is a. Tamploosa's wrong. That's wrong. He just got it wrong. I wonder if he made a face after he got it wrong that was like, I got that wrong. Because he got that wrong. So that's. That's one thing.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But. So you.

[Meg Rowley]

The polar vortex has thought. But a. But a bear. But a bear would thrive in a polar vortex because it's a polar bear. So you want it to be cold. They like the cold.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You're right.

[Meg Rowley]

You don't want to thaw. And I understand that he's making a bear market joke. But also like.

But he's the bear. But he's the bear. So you don't. You don't want them.

I'm so mad. I don't like that one at all. I'm.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. Okay.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm. I do not support that one. I think I. I think he. I think he tried to do too much. And. And then. And then he biffed it at the end.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes.

[Meg Rowley]

And that. That's. I'm sure there was someone in the scrum who was like, is that. But that's not where they. They run.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I. I thought. Yeah. Is he working on some other layer? Is this Like a. Another pun that I'm not even getting, but I don.

He was also. He was asked about the fit for Pete Alonso in Fenway and the Green Monster, and he said the numbers illustrate that Pete hits really well there, sees the ball well. Big man in small quarters. It's nice to be the redwood tree in the forest. I guess. I can't. I can't read about redwood trees anymore without thinking about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. So that's ruined for me forever.

[Meg Rowley]

I just love that you're like, look at this beautiful manifestation of nature. It makes me think of Travis Kelsey's dick, You know, that's a weird. That's a weird life to be living over there. That's a.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Didn't ask.

[Meg Rowley]

It's not your fault. You should. You. You deserve financial compensation from Taylor Swift. I think so. Okay, so wait, so. But. But he's not a. But why would he be a redwood? Why is he. He's not a. He's a polar bear.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right. There's a metaphors here. He's the redwood tree in the forest. I guess that means he's just. He's.

[Meg Rowley]

He's a really big tree in a forest. But some forests, sure. You know, some forests are very forest trees.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And he's. He's not that big. I mean, he's big, but as big leaguers go, I think.

[Meg Rowley]

I think of. This is still Alonzo. Right. I didn't miss Alonso here switching to a different player. He's like. I. I mean, he's a big. I would describe him as stocky more than I would describe him as big.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I mean, 245.

[Meg Rowley]

It's.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, he's playing in the same city as Aaron Judge and Junk Crow stand, and it's tough.

[Meg Rowley]

Definitely warping my perspective on it. There are some. Some of the front office folks walking around the lobby bent. They are very tall and they all seem to work for the race. It's just like a. See a very tall race.

[Ben Lindbergh]

One of them. Jeff Sullivan, folks.

[Meg Rowley]

One of them was Jeff Sullivan, but he also had other colleagues in stuff, and they were. They were similarly very tall. Oh, they were all so tall. So tall.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Huh. Must be a market inefficiency of some sort. Just height among front office executives. Probably not. Usually height leads to people being overrated, if anything.

[Meg Rowley]

So, like, yeah, Alonso's canonical example of this handsome or just tall? You know, we have to ask these questions.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Alonso, in 10 games in Fenway, has an 893 OPS, which is. Okay, fine, but he has a. He has a career. 857 OPS, right.

[Meg Rowley]

It's not that. Nothing spectacular different from his.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

I am furious about. About these. I really am.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, let's keep going.

[Meg Rowley]

All right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay, this one, I think I have to hand it to him here. Maybe he's talking about Tarek Skubal. Okay.

[Scott Boris]

Scubal is metrically dominant both in advanced and traditional measures.

I mean, he's true, but truly a.

Saber proof tiger.

When it.

If you want to look at the tail of the tiger.

Without scoops.

They'Re.

They're a Mystery machine.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, so here's the thing. One of those would be fine, but he is again, he's doing too much. Why are you stacking? Yeah, also, it's a hat on a.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Hat, as they say.

[Meg Rowley]

It's a hat on a hat. He is definitionally a hat on a hat. I just. So here's the other part of. Okay, so he's metrically dominant. So that's a weird way to phrase that. I understand what he's going for. And we do refer to some stats as metrics, but like, metrically dominant is. That's clunky, Scott.

I'd ask for a rephrase if you were filing copy with me. So there's that piece. And then he's a.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He's a saber proof tiger.

[Meg Rowley]

That part is, I think, quite strong because it suggests that, you know, his traditional stats are not undone by less flattering advanced stats. And I think that's quite strong. So. Okay, good. You could. You could have a better. A cleaner second pass. But fine. But you can't. Then do the Scooby Doo. You can't do Scooby Doo 2, especially.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Because he did Scooby Doo, I think, at the GM meetings. Right. I. I mean, I like that the Tigers are a Mystery Machine without Scuba. That's not bad, but.

[Meg Rowley]

That's not bad. But you can't. You have to pick. You have to pick a darling and stick with it because you can't if you're stacking the. Your darling. Well, that's crazy. You know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. You're supposed to kill them. At least some of them. Right.

[Meg Rowley]

You're supposed to kill your darlings. Which, you know, outside the context of writing would be a terrible thing to say, but in the context of writing is good advice. But this is too. He needs a room. You know what? Do you think we could charge Scott Boris to be like his writers?

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think he's just so. He enjoys this so much that I'm not sure he would want that. But I've I've made that case before. I've. I've written that the, the Star wars fellows, Filoni and Favreau, they've done some good work, but they do it solo or together. And they don't have a writer's room and they could clearly benefit from one. And generally I am in favor of just having a room. And Scott, it's just unclear that he's running this by enough people.

[Meg Rowley]

Do you think that any of them.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Are AI, like the people he's consulting or. Or just that he's getting this from AI?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. Do you think that any of his. Are him going, you know, chat gbt, give me a little bit.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Because he was doing this well before the.

[Meg Rowley]

That's true.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The Gen AI era. And I don't know that the quality has changed appreciably for better or worse. Here's another no doubter. And by that I mean one where he said no doubt at the end. There might be plenty of doubt about the quality of the puns, but here it goes on Zach Gallen.

[Scott Boris]

I think for Zach, it's high quality.

Never crude, always refined. And when you pull up to the pitching pump, you know a gallon is always premium. So he's. He's exactly a rotation fit, no doubt.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think the structure had an issue here because he started in with the gas analogy before he could. He really explained that. So he started with never crude, always refined. But he didn't say gallon before that. So I wasn't even thinking about that. He's just. For Zach, it's high quality, never crude, always refined. And at first I'm not sure where he's going with this until he gets to the. When you pull up to the pitching pump, a gallon is always premium. I feel like he should have led with that and then use the never crude, always refined. Or he could have could have gone with the price of a gallon. Something about that these days, I don't know.

[Meg Rowley]

It's weird to make it about, you know, like a gallon is a unit of measure. And so it's weird to say a gallon is always premium because. Well, it doesn't have to be at all. You know, like you can go and get regular.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes.

[Meg Rowley]

And they will sell you a gallon of it. You know, I mean, they prefer you put it in your car first, but they will sell you a gallon of it. And so that one's not quite. That one's not working for me. I don't think. I think you're right that structurally it is a little crude to use to use Scott's word, could use some refinement. I was able to anticipate who he was talking about. I think that was.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think I told you I primed you at the pump for that one. Yeah. So.

[Scott Boris]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

But I think I would have gotten it anyway because it's like, well, who else could it be but gallon, you know, who else has a possible.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. That may have been more of a delivery issue. I guess. I get what he was going for, but it didn't come out perfectly.

[Meg Rowley]

I wonder. He should have like, if you want to be in, like gas gallon territory, you should have like a pedal to the metal kind of a thing or. I feel like there's unexplored potential there. But that one's pretty poor, I think, just in both the writing and the execution. I don't think he's. I don't think he nailed that one, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay, I think we're up to the last one now, mercifully, probably for some of our listeners. And if I missed any apologies, apologies to Scott. I will update in the outro. But here's Scott Boris on where talks stand with Cody Bellinger.

[Scott Boris]

Belly is.

You know, he's. I mean, it's not for me to judge, but.

You know, great players see red. If they don't, they lose or know that they have a big bat yanked out of their lineup.

I haven't met.

A team that dodges a five tool player.

[Meg Rowley]

Is he just naming teams at this point?

[Scott Boris]

The center field need is a giant step towards the playoffs.

North and south.

Outfielders that fly with power, they're rare birds.

In the off season, there's a lot of startup to organizations, and for that reason, there's a lot of angel investors that are looking for very versatile outfielders. So other than that, Belly doesn't have much interest.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So he's speaking in codes, a very easy to crack code.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, I cracked it. You know, I cracked.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I cracked his code that there are a lot of teams in on Cody Bellinger here.

[Meg Rowley]

There are a couple ways in which this falls apart, not the least of which is.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So he.

[Meg Rowley]

He named a bird.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Bird.

[Meg Rowley]

He named bird. So he. He must be. This feels like you're being very rude to Victor Scott because. Right, because it can't be the Blue Jays. They have Dalton Burcho.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think he means the Orioles because.

[Meg Rowley]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Because the Cardinals, an oriole is in fact a bird. You're right, you're right, you're right, you're right, you're right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Bird, bird, bird. Bird.

[Meg Rowley]

The rest of the episode, just me be me going, bird, bird, bird, bird, bird.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I would love that.

[Meg Rowley]

It got colder in the workroom today. I don't understand what happened. It got colder all throughout this hotel. I don't understand. Isn't this hotel normally frequented by children going to Disney World? I mean, I guess they're not here most of the time if that's the core audience. Like they're in the park. But it was. It's so cold today, Ben. I, I was just from the minute I went downstairs to go to the BBWA meeting. Such a chill BBWA meeting we had, by the way. No controversy at all, which has not been true. The last couple ones, people have been fighting in the aisles. But not today. Everyone was like, great, let's get out of here. But anyway, I don't like this one at all. I think it is too much work. It also isn't highlighting one of the best parts of Cody Bellinger's profile, which, yes, is that he can play like a good center field. But also it's, it's sort of not nodding at his positional versatility in a way that seems very strange to me. Yanked. I don't think we should talk about yanking. That feels bad. I don't know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I am kind of impressed that he managed to get that all out. I don't have video of that one. I don't think I haven't seen. So I don't know if that all came out cleanly. It could be that the transcript is doing him some favors. But he, he did work a lot of teams into that.

[Meg Rowley]

He did. Okay, so tell me, take us through the teams again. Take us through the teams again.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, so we have the Yankees for sure. The big bat yanked out of their lineup. And also it's not for me to judge. And then I guess the Reds, great players, see red.

[Meg Rowley]

I guess the Reds.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I haven't met a team that dodges a five tool player. So that's, that's the Dodgers. And then we have the Phillies and their center field needs. That needs to be filled. And then the Giants. The Giants step toward the playoffs. And then the Birds, the rare birds. And then the angel investors. So we've got the Angels in the mix here too. So I, I guess that's all of them. That's a lot of teams.

[Meg Rowley]

That is a lot of teams. And you know, I think most of them are right in terms of their needs. I am curious if any.

Yo, the Internet sucks so bad now. I just want you to know that the Internet Is, like, so useless so much of the time. I was curious if any of the teams that he was naming had as their projected opening day starting center fielder at this moment, another client of his, which I would imagine Scott has the foresight to not do. But I was curious who Colton Kauser's agent is, because I don't know that one off the top. And the AI overview on Google is Colton Kauser's agent is not publicly specified, but he is likely represented by a sports agency that handles baseball players.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, that's. That's helpful. Yeah. Okay. Checks out. Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

What a dumb timeline. We're living in benches. The goofiest, dumbest little timeline. But anyway, I appreciate the effort that is being expended here, and I think that I mostly agree with his assessment in terms of the teams that he's listing here. Needing. Needing in some cases, quite desperately a center fielder. But I think we're. We're in. We're in dicey territory because we liked the Bregman ones. We thought those were good. We liked half of the Skubal ones, or at least we liked each half of the Skuba one independently, but gave him a big downgrade for. For once again wearing a hat on a hat. And. And we liked this one on Bellinger's behalf. But the Alonzo stuff is a catastrophe, and I think it means he fails the exercise. Like, I think. I think the exercise receives a failing grade because of how bad that answer was.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, I found a video of him delivering that line that very long. Bellinger.

[Meg Rowley]

Was it better?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. So people will have heard this already and maybe been confused by my saying that I couldn't find video. I have found it. It, as you now know, and I think we've got to include the Mets in the list of teams, because when he said, I haven't met a team.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He. He stressed that. So, okay, we can lump them into. So every team is in on Bellinger, seemingly. So that's good to know. I guess.

[Meg Rowley]

I. I just think it's December. We're here in. Well, I don't. I almost admit, not the happiest place on Earth, because that distinction belongs to Disneyland. But we are, you know, within. Within the line of sight of the mouse at a lot of junctures. And again, I can see the Tower of Terror. I'm surprised I can't see more. You know, I was thinking this the other day. I'm like, why can't I see? Is that really the tallest structure? Anyway, But. But so, you know, we're we're all having fun here. Schwaber signing and Diaz is signing and business done, albeit at a slow clip. But like a thing that has been a topic of conversation in every conversation I have had here is that we are so unlikely to have winter meetings again next year because if there is a lockout, there's no purpose to having a major league phase to the winter meetings. They still do, I think the trade show and, and what have you. But they won't, they won't do it. And apparently Ben, next year was supposed to be a San Diego year.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What a loss.

[Meg Rowley]

I am, I am furious.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Hopefully they won't skip it in the rotation. They'll just do San Diego the following year.

[Meg Rowley]

How dare they put San Diego on the chopping block like that. How dare they. Furious. So anyway, but it's like it is casting something of a Paul over the proceedings, right? There's just this understanding even as guys are signing multi year contracts, even as the Dodgers are spent, we'll get into the Diaz and Schwerber of it all here shortly. But it's like there is a keen awareness of the precarity of the sport after this CPA expires and maybe they get a deal done. Maybe they are able to avoid a lockout. That seems incredibly unlikely. Maybe they're able to avoid missing games. That seems more likely. Although I have heard some very pessimistic guesses from some folks on that score. So it's, you know, there's a seriousness to the future that I think everyone is very cognizant of. And so that is also part of why this is kind of fallen flat for me. Because, you know, you gotta have a sense of humor about things and find fun even in the face of difficulty. But it just feels like it's sort of missing the. It's, it, it's, it feels low feel to me is what it feels like. It's like he's got sort of the.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Other way that we got to appreciate the puns while we have them, that the puns are precious. We'll be wishing that we had the Boris stand up next year when we have no winter meetings potentially.

[Meg Rowley]

So I'm going to be, I think I'm going to be home for the whole month of December. Think about how much easier it's going to be scheduled a podcast. We won't have anything, we won't have.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Anything to talk about, right? Yeah, exactly. But, but we won't have any scheduling conflicts. So that's good. That's the primary consideration for People are recording. Logistics. Anyway, I. I'm still optimistic about not missing games, but not about avoiding a lockout and next year's Scott Boris puns. So did we have to spend quite so much time on this? Perhaps not. But you know what? We might not get another batch of these until who knows when. So we'll savor them and also mock them while we can. Okay, let's talk about those two big signings of non Boris clients. We don't have to talk about which teams might hypothetically, theoretically be interested in Scott Boris clients when we know that Phillies, in addition to extending manager Rob Thompson, have essentially extended. Resigned. Really? Kyle Schwerber, big deal. Long term, five years and 150mil. And Kyle Schwarber going back to the Phillies or really just staying put. And you know what? That feels right. I'm. I'm glad. He just. He feels like he is a Philly and should continue to be a Philly. It is a lot of money. Money. 30 mil for five years for a DH, a very good DH, but still a DH who is turning 33 in March. But they're keeping the band together here. They're just gonna make more runs with Schwarz.

[Meg Rowley]

I like it. Oh, I like the first two or three years of it very much. I have confidence in Schwarber's ability to maintain his tools. But you're right. Like, he. He's. He is DH only at this point. I mean, you can really.

[Ben Lindbergh]

At every point, right? But, like, he wasn't DH for a while, but you're.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, he's a really. He's a really. DH only. He is real, real, real, real DH only at this point. Birds, Birds, Birds, birds. But I think that he is. You know, I saw a number of. I just follow so many Phillies fans on social media. I'm realizing. But, you know, I think that in terms of what he. The field, he's been a meaningful contributor to them in a way that is funny because you think of Bryce Harper and all his blood as the sort of spiritual leader of that team, right. This super important signing, them kicking off this.

Long era of contention. But I think that Schwaber has an argument to be just as vital to their success and efforts over the last couple years as Harper, at least on the offensive side of the ball.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So.

[Meg Rowley]

So I think he's a really important part of their team and clubhouse. I think his production would have been difficult for them to replace in quite the same way. And I also think that he seems like an important. And this is what I saw a Number of Phillies fans remarking on. And I think this is the sort of thing that fans tend to have a better bit of insight into than I do as a national observer. An important sort of culture carrier and stabilizing force in that. That. In that clubhouse. And so I like it. I think it's more money than I anticipated him getting. Although, you know, we've gotten a number of. We tried in the. In the stretch just after news of his signing broke. I mean, Rosenthal has reported that the Orioles matched the Phillies offer to Schwerber. The Reds were also at five years.

About the Reds in this piece are like, why are you letting people know about this? But they're like, it'll drive ticket sales. I'm like, you guys are so tacky sometimes. Anyway, I like it. I think that I underestimated Trobers market. I had a brutal day in my over underdraft. Ben. My God, just getting whacked from both ends here.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But yeah, let's see. So you had. I had the under on Schwarber at 135 over. Over on Diaz. 82. Yeah, yeah. This might be the year we said it when we did the draft that we felt like MLB trade rumors was pretty spot on and that we weren't super confident in our picks. So we'll see how it all shakes out. But we might not even end up ahead this time. Not by much at least.

[Meg Rowley]

I think that I really maybe misjudged his market. You know, I think the bad back couple years of this could look kind of gross. I think that potential exists. But I also think that the Phillies have an appropriate sense of urgency about the state of their own roster. And they are not content to just be. We've been to the World Series. We've been a perennial postseason contender. They want a ring and they have a bunch of guys who are aging. And I think that spending up to try to lengthen that window as much as possible is worthwhile. And then like, you know, if the back two years of his deal, he's not a good player. Well, at that point, you're probably looking at a mini rebuild for them anyway. So you have to spend the money. But they seem like they're happy to spend money. There are other needs on this roster and you know, I guess that Boris has reminded us of one of them. But I do think that, you know, this was a meaningful bit of business for them to get done. I think that, you know, some of their other options and some of their other needs they're going to be able to kind of maybe sort out. So I don't know, like they got to get, they got to do something about that outfield they have. They don't have a starting catcher on their roster right now. The state of their rotation is dicier than it was a couple of months ago. Rangers. Suarez is a free agent and Wheeler is going to be out. And then who knows, you know, what he'll be like upon his return. And Nola's season was a freaking disaster. So it's not like they don't have other stuff that they need to get done. But I do think this is one of the things that they needed to get done. So they went and did it and that's great.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I feel like Schwarper is a bit overrated, which I don't want to come off as a Schwarber hater. I really like, I enjoy him him, but it's almost like somehow he's exempt from the change in the way that teams evaluate players or media members evaluate players where he is just sort of a old school slugger and he hits lots of dingers. And not that he's one dimensional at the plate, he's patient, he draws a lot of walks, but he's still just a dh, a really good dh and he's coming off a career year. Great timing on his part, but it's still like a five WAR season. That's kind of his peak. And unless you think that that's not accurate, that's the positional adjustments or something that are doing him dirty. You know, like he was number two in NL MVP voting. Yeah. And he was 14th in NL Fangraphs war.

[Meg Rowley]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So there seems to be something about Kyle Schwerber and maybe it's just that he's had all these big moments.

[Meg Rowley]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Or maybe it is just. Yeah. Like he's. He's well known, he's been clutch at times. He has that clubhouse leadership halo effect. I don't know what it is, but it's just sort of like the way we evaluate players these days has kind of hurt the perception of players like Schwarber. But Schwerber himself. Yeah. He's somehow immune to that.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. And look like I think that it's funny because we as an industry. And I think this is true of fans too. Right. Like especially in the last couple of years we have seen been spoiled by, by the power available in baseball. You know, there are all of these guys who are hitting home runs or hitting a lot of home runs, but you can see guys hit A home run. Schwarber is in that tier of dude where it's like, he hits a home run and you're like, holy.

That is a. That is a big home run that you just hit, sir. And, and big, both in terms of the frequency with which the. They. They have been clutch both in the regular season and the postseason. And also, like, impactful. Right. Like, he is a. Feel it in your chest kind of power hitter that moves people. It's an incredible story because, like, you know, there were points after that, you know, that Cubs tenure where he looked. Cooked like he looked like he was done. Maybe not done, but diminished considerably. So, you know, he's, I'm sure, like, like exceeded his own wildest expectations in terms of being able to realize this deal.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And he doesn't just hit long homers. He hits lots of them.

[Meg Rowley]

Lots of them.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Almost no one hits more homers than he does. Yeah, he just hit 56. That's a huge number. Even now. And over the past five years, only Judge and Ohtani have out homered him. Over the past four years, he's tied with Ohtani behind Judge. So he's an incredibly prolific home run hitter. But, yeah, how will that age? I just. I don't know. So I like it for now and I like it for the Phillies. And they don't seem like the kind of team that will say, oh, we can't do anything else because we have Kyle Schwarber. They're trying to trade Nick Castellanos his $20 million salary, but they're not getting much out of Nick Castellanos. I don't know whether they'll be getting much out of Kyle Schwarber by the end of this deal, but that's how free agent contracts tend to go. I just hope you get that front loaded production. And if you can keep cranking those dingers for the next couple season while the Phillies are in the midst of this window and they're old and they're only going to get older, but yeah, if they can just run it back for another couple of years, then maybe that will be worth whatever happens after that.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, I think that, like, he strikes me, I think you're right that, like, there is a. There is a bit of a gap between the way that his profile is typically talked about and the way that Kyle Schwaber, as an example of that profile is talked about. But he strikes me as a guy who's, like, really well, well suited for what the. Where the Phillies are now and where they might go in that, like, you know, provided remains healthy but like they will get all of this production while they are still in it and really trying to win a World Series. And maybe the Phillies will just position themselves as like a perpetual motion machine where they'll kind of Dodgers and Mets it a little bit. Where it's like we're gonna just spend a lot. We're just always going to be a team that spends a lot and like we're gonna buy our way through what would otherwise be fallow period periods on the roster. But assuming they don't do quite that. You know, it's like you get probably two or three really good years from Schwaber and then you know, in the back, in the back two of that deal where you're maybe taking a step back or you know, trying to dip under competitive balance tax stuff while you're hopefully bringing up prospects or young players or whatever. Well then you gotta, you got a guy everyone likes as a clubhouse guy to kind of of help ease those dudes in and sort of bridge a gap and what have you. So I think it's, I think it's an overpay in terms of his likely production. Like, I don't think that this deal will probably calc out in a great way from a dollars per WAR perspective. But I also think that like he does have attributes that are not captured in stats like war. He's a great hitter. It doesn't seem like he's about to fall off a cliff if he, you know, he's like, we talk about a big dude. Like he's taking good care of himself. You know, like I, I like Schwerber and I think it's a great fit. I think he has meant a lot to that franchise and I do think that they are getting a little, they are paying up a little bit relative to what was likely strictly necessary because you know, I don't know if he had an interest as an aside. Like what the Orioles go sign a starting pitcher.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What.

[Meg Rowley]

What on earth.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Anyway, a frequent refrain on this podcast.

[Meg Rowley]

Please. I mean, I know you got to keep multiple balls in the air at once this time of year, you know, and like going after Schwarber does not preclude them. But also, my God, Mike, reportedly they're.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Moving on to the Polar Bear and the Vortex and the all the rest of it. Anyway, Schwerber was, according to fan graphs were the fourth most valuable Philly last year, let alone in the National League.

[Meg Rowley]

Were the three ahead of him? All pitchers.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Two were. Trey Turner was, was ahead of Turner.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, yeah, that's funny.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Anyway, keep him away from the ozone therapy. And I say therapy in air quotes.

[Meg Rowley]

Well, I mean, like, talk about, I don't know, Schwarber's deal. I don't know Schwarber's deal. But having a potential countervailing force doesn't strike me as the worst idea either. So.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So yeah, we've gotten some responses to the ozone therapy Bryce Harper discussion. None of them has stood up for ozone therapy.

[Meg Rowley]

They've all been, yeah, to be clear.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, people who know much more about medicine than we do are like, yeah, this, this is not a good idea. That's. That's the opposite of a therapy. It is not good actually to do that to your blood.

[Meg Rowley]

It's like slowly poisoning himself seemingly.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay, so, yes. So the we tried tracker for Davey Andrews is lighting up on this one one because, yeah, it's not just the Orioles and the Reds, but also the Pirates and the reported. Evidently they did actually make an offer on this one. So it's not quite like Naylor where they were primed to make an offer. Reportedly they actually did here and they went to four years and 120. So same AV, but one less year, which is, you know, not a bad offer. I mean, it was topped, but that's not an unreasonable amount of money to offer Kyle Schwarber. I suppose it's probably not going to get it done. It didn't get it done and it isn't going to get it done. If you're the Pirates and you probably have to pay a premium, which you're extremely unwilling to do. But what free agent is. If all else is equal, who's going to choose the Pirates? At this point, I don't see why you would. So you might have to kick in a little extra to get someone to come play for you. And will they be willing to do that? Who knows? They are certainly willing to make some headlines about how much they have to spend and how willing they are. And for anyone who is wondering why Bob Nutting is maybe nutting a little less and turning over a new leaf here, I don't think it's just because he has resolved to be a better owner and he's had some sort of End of the Christmas Carol Scrooge esque epiphany for the Christmas season, I think that there's a motivation for him to do this. One is just to avoid another grievance from the players association not spending enough. But even that hasn't motivated him in the past. But Evan Drelik and Kevin Rosenthal wrote about this at the end of last month in a piece for the Athletic headline. The Pirates and Marlins have a sudden willingness to spend. And here's what could be behind it. And it acknowledges that they have every reason to spend, just competitively speaking, especially the Marlins. Yeah, I mean they're 29th and 30th in committed payroll for 2026 and they could both be contenders if they actually decided to invest in their roster. The Pirates, they've got good pitching. They just had no offense. If they could somehow make up for that shortfall, they wouldn't be an unreasonable dark horse kind of pick potentially. But it seems like there are ulterior motives here. So here's what they say. In the view of some player agents, the surprising entrances of the Pirates and Marlins into the marketplace are curious. And with the sports collective bargaining agreement set to expire after next season, no coincidence, quote, there is a possibility of a fight among clubs over revenue sharing, with the smaller markets seeing a greater contribution. Agent Seth Levinson said. Said the payers large market clubs will argue that insufficient revenue sharing funds are being spent on player acquisition. Hence it wouldn't be a surprise if the smaller markets compete for talent in the free agent market to convince the payers that they are committed to putting a better product on the field. So instead of spending just to appease the players association, maybe they're spending to appease fellow teams, the franchises that are basically bankrolling Bob Nutting not to spend any more on player payroll than he's already receiving in revenue sharing. And the Pirates in the Marwin say no, it's all about opportunity and wanting to be good and everything. But that casts it in a somewhat different light. And yeah, you know, we'll take it. I guess like any, any spending, if you're a Pirates or Marlins fan, you might not even care exactly why it's happening. But yeah, it does seem that they're thinking long term about the CPA and the negotiations and revenue and revenue sharing and all the rest. So that that could be behind this?

[Meg Rowley]

Yep, that seems about right to me. Seems about right to me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Okay. Well, another team that typically is a payer in revenue sharing, to say the least, the Los Angeles Dodgers.

They made a move.

[Meg Rowley]

I was so excited when this happened, but I was like all people are going to get all up.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I can't wait for him to get all worked up. You love the drama, the Dodgers drama you live.

[Meg Rowley]

I love Dodgers drama. I've become something of a troll about it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You're a provocateur I am, I think.

[Meg Rowley]

I am a little bit of a Dodgers provocateur. Not of the Dodgers, but of the Dodger haters. And it's shocking because I don't think I care that much, but I care enough to do it. So what do you make of that?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, amusingly, I saw some questions quotes that Andrew Friedman gave to reporter Bill Plunkett the other day. This was two days ago, I think in the Orange County Register quote, I think we feel really good about the team we have as we sit here today. So it's not as much heavy lifting required, Friedman said. That being said, we're going to stay open minded to opportunities that present themselves. And I guess one presented itself and it was signing Edwin Diaz. So that quote, I would imagine will be more ammunition for Dodgers haters. It's not as much heavy lifting required. And then sign a free agent who's probably the best reliever, best closer on the market. And. And what is that, like double the biggest free agent contract the Pirates have ever handed out? I mean, so it's all relative. This actually isn't that heavy lifting for the Dodgers. By recent Dodger standards, this is a drop in the bucket. But yeah, Dodgers, Edwin Diaz. I guess it makes sense because they are indeed the Dodgers and they did have a really lousy bullpen and so they're throwing more money at the problem.

[Meg Rowley]

It's such a Dodgers signing, I'll say. You know, three years and 69 million for the top bullpen arm on the market isn't like cuckoo bananas or anything like that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

No.

[Meg Rowley]

And you know, there are nits that one can pick with Edwin Diaz. Right. We could talk about his age. We could talk about the slight decline in velocity that he's had over the last couple years. We could talk about how his performance has been a bit mercurial.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Volatile. He's volatile. Yeah. For someone who's been as good as he's been, generally he doesn't inspire the most confidence at all times.

[Meg Rowley]

Right. And so I think that there are nits to pick. But I also think that, like, the amount of money that is being spent here is like, pretty reasonable, all things considered. Certainly goofed me in the free agent over Underdraft, so, you know, how about that? But also, it's a very Dodger signing insofar as, like, they do have some needs on their roster, but they don't have a lot of needs and they don't have a lot of places to put needs. Right. Like their rotation is pretty well set and you know, Their position player group is pretty well locked in and they could make some upgrades if they wanted to.

[Ben Lindbergh]

They could do a little, little light lifting with Kyle Tucker. Potentially.

[Meg Rowley]

They could do a little light lifting.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Imagine if they signed Kyle Tucker after the not as much heavy lifting required the subs.

[Meg Rowley]

I mean, him saying that is the most confident I've been that they won't sign Tucker. But also it could be a complete misdirect, so who knows.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But I mean, they didn't spend more than a billion or committed more than a billion in total spending in the winter of 23 to 24. Yeah. Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, Tay, Oscar, and then last year was Snell, Sasaki, Conforto, Scott Yates kept Hernandez and Tran in around. So yeah, comparatively speaking.

[Meg Rowley]

Comparatively speaking, but. But also they managed to win a World Series with a bullpen that was frankly terrifying. You know, there's just pot committed to big payroll, man. So it's like, you know, if you're gonna, if you're gonna spend another 23 million a year, go, sure, go get the best bullpen arm and like, maybe, maybe Tanner Scott will be better next year. I mean, it won't, wouldn't take much for him to be better next year. But like, there's a reason that Yamamoto was throwing on no days of rest in the final game of that World Series. It was because Dave Roberts couldn't trust anyone else in his bullpen and had already sent out the few arms he did trust. So, you know, I think that there was a real need and it is a need that a team like the Dodgers can afford to have where if you're not an incredible team, if you're not a team that's having to consider not only what does this, what does the composition of this roster look like during the regular season, but how does it lend itself to the roster composition we need come the postseason. You're not spending money on an Edwin Diaz, right? The Pirates have no use for Edwin Diaz. Edwin Diaz is useless to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Which isn't to say that he couldn't save games for them, but what games is he saving?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right?

[Meg Rowley]

Like, so I think that like they are the kind of team where they don't actually have a very long shopping list this offseason and they can spend up for a guy even if, if he's only a one inning guy and like Edwin Diaz works best when he is only going and inning at a time. And you know, we have seen what like heavy usage can do to him in the playoffs, which isn't Great. And might concern them a little bit, but if he's really only going for one inning, well, you just have to make sure Dave Roberts doesn't do anything wackadoo, which, you know, he's been known to do from time to time. But like they there as, as Bauman noted and you know, in game seven, they threw every guy in their playoff rotation and five of the six dudes had mostly been starters, depending on how you want to describe Emmett Sheehan. So like he didn't trust any of the guys or they were exhausted, but it was like he can't, he can't go in with a load bearing, you know, version of Blake Trinet. Like, no, why are you making part of the power? And then I'm going to shut up and I'm going to let you through talk. But part of the power of the Dodgers is the ability they have to throw money at problems that are otherwise annoying. Why not make yourself, make your life easier? If all it costs you to feel more confident going into October is $23 million a year and you're the Los Angeles Dodgers, that is tidy, easy business. So just go do it. Yep, that's what they did.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And they do tend to shop at the top of the market, which they can do more easily than any other team. But other teams that could probably do better, they will sometimes mess around with the middle tier where you can kind of get in trouble sometimes. Not just the low price bargains, but if you need have a need, the Dodgers will just go get the best guy. When they do spend on a free agent or trade for one. Sometimes it's elite talent they tend to sign. And Michael Conforto, that, that backfired.

[Meg Rowley]

Michael Confordo, yes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

There are some exceptions to this rule.

[Meg Rowley]

But it's so funny that they signed Michael Conforto. He was pretty bad. He was pretty, pretty bad.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Apologies to the Pirates. By the way, I said that this Diaz deal was double the record free agent signing for the Pirates. Not quite. Their record is still Francisco Liriano's three year, $39 million deal, which was 11 years ago. That was December 2014. They have not exceeded that record. They've signed bigger extensions since then, but that's the record for a free agent. And by the way, Scott, Boris weighed in on the Pirates and their seeming willingness to spend. He didn't actually have any puns for this one. You could tell when someone asks him about something else that he was not prepared to talk about. He doesn't just have these things off the cuff. Right. Like, they're not coming off the dome. Like, if he has not prepared them beforehand, then he's not necessarily. Like, he's not the best at improv. But he said, yeah. Ben Sheridan and the Pirates have reached out to us on a number of players. They've made us very aware that they're going to be active in the free agent market, and they intend to add free agent talent to the roster. I would say it's the right step. I certainly don't want to limit them for future years, but it's good to see a few of the clubs that we don't normally hear from in free agency be active in it. Amusingly, it then says Sporus Perform prefers not to share publicly which teams are talking to his players. Yeah. Not unless he has a prepared spiel about every single team that's talking to Cody Bellinger. Seemingly. Okay. Anyway, I guess he prefers not to because he's saving that material for when he's standing in front of the scrum. Okay. And when we talk about free agents and spending these days, we do tend to talk about it more in terms of opportunity cost, cost from a roster standpoint than from a spending standpoint. And we've talked about this shift in the past, but it used to be that we would really just obsess over the terms and the salary. And then it got to a point where we figured, well, teams could probably spend more, mostly if they wanted to, than they do, and so why stress over the salary? Mostly it's about, is this guy a good fit for the roster, and would there have been a better player that would have served this team's needs better? More so than sort of, I guess, playing into the team narrative of we can't afford this guy because we got that guy. And yes, some teams do have constraints, more so than the Dodgers do. But we tend to break this down based on how good is the player and how well does he fit the roster and how much will he improve this team? And I do have some concerns about Diaz. Just. You noted it. I mean, there's some signs of slippage there. There. Yep. But he's still elite. He's still really good. He's 31. He'll turn 32 in March.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. Like right before opening day.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. On the surface, 1.63 er doesn't get much better than that. And you compare that to, say, 2022 when he had a 1.31 er, and you might say, oh, he's essentially the same guy, but little different. You know, he's striking out a mere 13 plus per 9 instead of 17 plus per 9. Just ridiculous. Like Diaz's peak stats are about the best thing since, I don't know, peak Kim April or something. And he was sitting 99.13 years ago, this year 97.4, which again, I'm poo pooing sitting 97. But you know, there's a market decline there. And so Even though the era is not so different, there's a pretty sizable FIP difference. A big one actually. Like 2022, 0.9 FIP, which is ridiculous. And this year 2.28 and the square next FIP was more than twice as high. So on the surface sort of the same, but under the hood, not quite. And so, you know, he had a three war in 2022 and this year two war in about the same number of innings more actually. So he's not quite as good as he was at his peak probably. And maybe there will be further decline. And the Dodgers tried to shore up their bullpen last year. Like you just said, you can't have a load bearing truck Trinen. Well, that was the plan to have one and it wasn't that bad a plan at the time. It was just that he buckled under that load by the time October rolled around. So they thought that they had really shored up their bullpen last year. They went and got Tanner Scott, who was probably the best reliever available, right. And Kirby Yates and yeah, they had Copeck and they had Trinen and then guys got hearse or they stunk and then suddenly they're having to use starters in relief constantly because they just have no reliable relievers. So that could happen again. But I guess what are you going to do if you're the Dodgers other than just trying to hedge against it happening again by going out and signing the best guy you can and hoping for the best.

[Meg Rowley]

I, I mean, yeah, he is just.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He'S like a one inning at a time guy and you know, most kind of designated closers are, but that's what he's going to give you. You know, aside from when he missed the entirety of 2023 after the WBC and injury, he's going to give you 60, 60 plus innings and they're all going to be same situations for the most part. And maybe you can stretch him a little longer in the postseason, but he won't really have been conditioned to do that. So yeah, you kind of. Well, I was going to say you know what you're going to get, but you don't really know with Diaz because he kind of alternates fantastic seasons and kind of like not sure about this one. So, anyway, anyway, that's, that's the news thus far.

[Meg Rowley]

Apparently there are deferrals in the Diaz deal. Roughly four and a half million annually for the three years. So for luxury tax purposes, this is Joel Sherman reporting that it'll sort of calculate out to roughly 21.1 million annually. And you, you mentioned roster fits. And I would like to return to Schwarber ever so briefly because I do think, feel like we would be remiss if we did not mention that one potential downside to the Schwarber of it all is that, as we've noted, DH only. DH only. DH only. And eventually that might also describe the Blood man himself.

[Ben Lindbergh]

True.

[Meg Rowley]

Bryce Harper. And so what are you gonna do when you get a. You got some competition? The Blood man himself. I don't know how I feel about that. I did it just off the dome. I'm not sure it's my best work. I don't know if it's, you know, Scott Boris pun bad.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The Blood man, not great.

[Meg Rowley]

Anyway, he might need to DH at some point in his career. And so then you have a little bit of working out to do, you know, a little shifting around. And you're limited in your ability to do that because of the presence of Schwarber. But I imagine that they're not that worried about it right now because the thing of it is, is when both of those guys, when both of those guys have to be DH and maybe routine's not very good.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right? Yeah. While we're still on the subject of the Dodgers, there was some news about the IPE TV drama that is coming slowly coming.

[Meg Rowley]

Remember that the scripted drama about Ippe, not drama related to IPE and a television.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. The dramatization of Ippei that has been in the works for about a year and a half. It was May of 2024 that this was first reported that it was being developed by Lionsgate. And now it has finally landed somewhere at Stars, which, you know, maybe means that it's not going to be the most high profile or prestige show. And I say that as someone who has seen every episode of Outlander and the Outlander spinoff. So no shots is an Outlander spin off. Blood of My Blood, baby. Good show.

[Meg Rowley]

Blood of My Blood. It would be hilarious if the name of the show story, also if the name of the show was actually Blood of My Blood, baby, comma, like, that would be. That'd be fantastic.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wouldn't really be period appropriate. I shouldn't even. Yeah.

Okay.

[Meg Rowley]

Anyway, what a delight by fair she.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Share of stars series and I guess if this one actually comes to fruition, I'll be seeing this one if only to just see how it turns out but I just don't know. So it lands at Stars, which I think used to be part of Lionsgate and there was a split there and so it comes from Lionsgate two stars and there's some pedigree here. It's coming from the screenwriter of Air, Alex Convery. And Justin Lin is involved from the Fast and the Furious in the Helldivers movie evidently. But Convre is like he's has this niche I guess of sports dramas. He's also working on a a Tiger woods thing the Tiger Slam about Tiger's peak 20002001 Tiger Slam. Yeah but I don't know about that so. Well that's what it was called but that could refer to any number of things I suppose. But. But this I don't like. If it actually happens, it doesn't just get stuck in development hell by the time it actually comes out it won't really be that newsy and ripped from the headlines because.

[Meg Rowley]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It hasn't even been written yet. I don't know what's happening. For the past year and a half I guess they've just been trying to figure out who wants it and where it would go but Justin Lin is attached to direct and will co write so it. It hasn't even been scripted seemingly yet, let alone shot. So this is a ways out. And by the time time it finally comes out, if it does will it seem like old news? It it will literally be old news. The logline says the the potential series will quote tell the inside story of Shohei Otani's translator Ippei Mizuhara, who journeys from unemployed drifter to international icon only to find himself tangled in a gambling scandal that rocked the sports world. First of all, are we describing Ippei as an international icon icon?

[Meg Rowley]

Also was he an unemployed drifter?

[Ben Lindbergh]

I mean I guess I don't Drifter seems strong. He was unemployed at one point but international icon. I when I read that the first time I thought they meant sh. But I don't it journeys from unemployed drifter that's to international icon that implies that Ippe is the international icon only to find himself tangled in a gambling scandal icon seems strange. Wrong. I just. I don't know like how entertaining it could be to watch someone gamble on their phone or like call Their bookie. It just doesn't. I. We talked about how there was kind of an uncut gems quality to reading the indictment. Yeah, but like, would it be the. And okay, you have the Otani orbit and then you got to get someone to play Otani. And like, like. And okay, is it a baseball show how much baseball is actually in this. And then like, are we following Ippe as he's driving Ohtani to the ballpark or whatever? Like just standing there interpreting it just doesn't seem like it would be. And to just watch him spiral and throw his life and his bank account and Ohtani's bank account away. I, I don't know. I don't know that I'm pretty really hooked by this premise. Even if they play it straight and don't do some sort of conspiracy stuff and like invent, you know, I'm imagining legal issues probably. They don't want to like invent, implicate Otani in some way here. So they have to sort of stick to the facts or what we know of them, I assume. And how exciting would that be to watch? I just, I have my doubts. So. So I, I have my doubts that this will actually be made and come out. But if it does, I don't know, we'll. We'll certainly watch it. I'll try it, we'll talk about it, just to see what it looks like. But I don't know, not super optimistic.

[Meg Rowley]

Don't commit us to watching the whole thing.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, we'll try it if.

[Meg Rowley]

Because like, you know, if my seven day trial runs out before I've been able to.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You're not already a star subscriber is what you're saying.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm not already staring already is. What is the, what is the spin off about? Is it their children? Is it time traveling children?

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's about their parents. Claire and Jamie's parents, actually. And there's time travel taking place there as well.

[Meg Rowley]

This is like a genetic trait that they have, the time travel. I thought it was because of the rocks or whatever.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, no, you have to have the quality. You, you go through the stones and you have to have a piece of jewelry that enables you to go through the stones, but you also have to be sort of a person who can journey through them. And evidently it's kind of a retcon because in the original Outlander series, Claire's parents were killed or they, they were in a car accident, but then they retconned that into actually they time traveled and that's why they disappeared.

[Meg Rowley]

Oh, and that's why probably more information.

[Ben Lindbergh]

About the Outlander franchise than most people want on a baseball podcast.

[Meg Rowley]

I mean, like, I, I, I'm fascinated. I mean, I'm not to be clear, I watched one season of Outlander and then I was done. You know, I was like, I don't.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Need to, I was just getting started.

[Meg Rowley]

I don't need to continue with this. I'm, I'm good.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Fair enough.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm good.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So we talked about the big LA move, by which I mean Von Grissom getting traded to the Angels. No, we didn't talk about that one. And it wasn't that big.

[Meg Rowley]

Just like what a. That that news broke. He came, came across the Transom and I started laughing very hard. I was like, you, you guys, you can only be yourselves. We can only ever be ourselves.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The big Von Grissom trades. Your thunder was stolen by the Dodgers. Diaz signing. And there's been a flurry of pitcher signings. The Rays signed Stephen Matz, which is appropriate because I can't remember whether he's a starter or a lever. And with the Rays, it's almost a distinction without a difference. You never need to know know, maybe he'll be a bit of both. He kind of got lost in the Cardinals vortex. Speaking of vortexes vortices last year, can't remember how anyone other than maybe Mason Win performed for the Cardinals last year. He did okay. And then. Yes. He went to the Red Sox and continued to do okay. So.

[Meg Rowley]

And did much better for the Red Sox even. He pushed very well for, for Boston.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So you know, he'll give you his usual decent number of innings in and around injuries probably maybe so like a lot of other race starters and pitch pitchers, there's also been kind of a run on pitchers coming back from Japan or Korea. So the, the players who were posted, they're still working through the posting process, but we have seen some western pitchers returning from the east and, and the real prize was Cody Ponce and he went to the Blue Jays, further strengthening that already strong rotation. But we've seen a whole bunch of lower profile signings from NPB and the kbo. Go. So the White Sox signed Anthony K. And the Astros signed Ryan Weiss. Yes. And then the Tigers signed Drew Anderson. And these are all guys who were coming back from stints overseas and not as highly prized as Ponce, clearly. But, but I always like the go over there, make good, learn a new pitch, pitch really well and then come back and see if you've actually changed or whether your stats just appear Better because it's a extreme dead ball era in Japan or the competition is lower in Korea and we find out whether it's real, whether they've really made strides. And that's always a fun little exercise. So. So yeah, teams kind of going bargain hunting, I guess, with the pitchers who've been away for a while and now we'll see how they perform.

[Meg Rowley]

Would you think that they went bargain hunting because they were nervous to have the my puns associated with their franchise? Do you, do you think it was that?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Probably not. That probably wasn't motivation. They probably like what they see in these guys profiles. But yeah, they've been away for a, a while. So we'll see. Okay.

[Meg Rowley]

Been a while.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I didn't exactly say it. I said been away for a while. It's a stretch putting words in my mouth or taking words out, I guess, in this case. And the last thing that I have to put to you. And I saved the football for the end. Oh, yeah. And it's, it's not even really football. It's football adjacent. But, but have you followed the Lane Kick Griffin fake dog saga? Because this is, this is exactly what you were imputing to Ohtani.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, he has a PR dog.

[Ben Lindbergh]

PR dog and PR dog appears to be. Now, there's some discrepancies in the accounts. There's some mystery still surrounding Juice Kiffin, the dog of Lane Kiffin. And for those who have not followed the Lane Kiffin saga, couldn't be me, of course, because I've followed it closely and discussed it on Hang up and Listen as Hang up and listeners know. But Lane Kiffin, in the the latest act of his itinerant career, every time you count him out, he somehow resurfaces and makes even more money than before. But he ditched his previous team, Ole Miss, on the precipice of the college football playoffs. They made it into the playoffs. Playoffs. And rather than continue to serve as their head coach, he left for LSU and got a ginormous contract. And it was a whole big controversy and drama and he was seen as something of a phony because he had talked about how you have to appreciate where you are and he's not going to be the guy who's just going from place to place anymore. And there was a whole ESPN documentary about him a couple months ago and he was a changed man. And then he did his Lane Kiffin thing again. And you know, from all accounts, I guess, good coach. Well, except for accounts long ago when he was like dismissed multiple times in disgrace. But like after that.

[Meg Rowley]

And like inspiring letters from past employers warning future employers about the Kiffin of it all.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Question.

[Meg Rowley]

We do not have time.

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, we really don't. It's a whole documentary and more and more and. But yes, his integrity has been questioned by past employers, his honesty, etc. So it came out that Juice Kiffin, who it seems like, you know, Kirk Herbstreet from on down, it's just like people in football, they kind of use their dogs for clout. It's not just in football, obviously, but it's quite prominent in football. But, you know, it's like, I love dogs, I have a dog. But when you make your dog your whole personality, or like at least your whole social media personality, I guess it's because people generally like dogs and so it.

[Meg Rowley]

And don't like Lane Kiffin.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right. And so it. It humanizes you. It. Canine is. Is you canines. That's not going to work. But to have a cuddly dog. Yeah. Regularly it makes people maybe like you more. Or at least that's the idea. So Juice Kids. Kiffin has like, well, followed social media accounts. But. Yeah, but then it came out that he might not actually be Lane Kiffin's dog.

[Meg Rowley]

I mean, it seems clear at this point that he's not Lane Kiffin's dog.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So Lane Kiffin has kind of denied that, and you can take that for what it's worth, but not much. Yeah, there have been reports. So the dog came from a kennel called Wild Rose Kennel Kennels. And then it seemed to be the case that the dog was not going with Lane Kiffin to lsu or at least not initially, and that there were reports that actually he continued to reside at the kennels or at least spent a lot of time at that kennels. That's a lot of time where he came from. And that maybe Lane Kiffin was just sort of masquerading as Juices owner, person, whatever, and that maybe he wasn't so much a part of the family as he was represented. And this was seen as another sign of Lane Kiffin's insincerity. So this was the exact conspiracy theory that you subscribe to, Slash, perpetrated. Initially about perpetrated.

[Meg Rowley]

Well, you know, perpetrated.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Was it out there and you glommed onto it, or was it. Did it originate with you? I don't even really remember.

[Meg Rowley]

I don't know if I originated it. I might have been. It's, you know, I was its strongest soldier.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, I hesitate to say popularized, because I'm not sure it ever became popular.

[Meg Rowley]

I still get DMS about. Yeah, about that dog. Well, I, I do. I still get DMS about that dog.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Help your case? Not necessarily in the case of Ohtani and, and Decoy Slash Deco pin, but at least it establishes that maybe this is a thing and that Kiffin was kind of like renting out this dog. It was a, a marriage of convenience kind of thing. Or, or yeah, it was a sham dog relationship. It has since been reported by an NFL PA certified agent named Aaron Reinholdson. I don't know why he's the person who is reporting this or how reliable it is is. But this person said, here's the truth on Juice Kiffin. Yes, he's Lane's dog. Lane got him from Wild Rose Kennels. Juice is essentially a high energy hunting dog that needs constant attention. Lane doesn't have the time, so the breeder became Juice's handler and babysitter. Juice would spend several nights a week at Lanes or at the kennels. No idea if Juice is coming to lsu. I think it has been subsequently suggested that Juice is in fact coming to lsu. There was like a, a popular viral skit about Lane and Juice and about him being a fake dog and Lane Kiffin, I think, quote, tweeted that with like cry laughing emojis or something and acknowledged it. Anyway, I mean, even if that report who's like, yes, he's Lane's dog. However, it's still basically being handled and babysat by the kennel and is like splitting time. It's like a timeshare share.

[Meg Rowley]

I mean, it's timeshare dog.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's not your typical dog human relationship here. Right. Like, I, I don't think. I mean, even if there is like, even if the papers are in Lane's name. Yeah, and I get that. Okay. He's busy. And there was a tweet from the at Juice Kiffin account, which has almost 74,000 followers for some reason that says, can't wait to get down to Baton Rouge with my dad, brother and sister, sister, and then has a photo of a tiger. So straight from the source of Juice Kiffin's Twitter account suggests that Juice is actually going to be making the trek to Baton Rouge. But again, you'd almost have to have him make the trek now because the, the fallout from this perhaps fake dog scenario, you'd have to then adopt the dog, if you haven't really already. So this is, this is essentially what you were saying saying, just with a different sports celebrity and different dog.

[Meg Rowley]

Yep. Yep.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So I won't call it vindication, but I will say that at least the concept has kind of been vindicated.

[Meg Rowley]

I think it's a superior dog. You know, I. I know that. I. I hear. I hear the denials, and I. I don't. I. I think that. I think he has had very little relation to that dog. I think that, you know, I think that if you were to stand Lane Kiffin in a room, certainly with the people from the shelter, and you were to ask them to call the dog versus Lane Kiffin, I think the dog goes to those people and not to Lane Kiffin. And isn't that the ultimate test? And, like, people need care for their animals while they're at work. And if you're a college football. The head coach of a college football program the size of ole Ms. Or LSU, you're gone a lot. I mean, honestly, he shouldn't have a dog. He can't be home enough to be taking care of that dog. You know, he. I'm just saying, like, what time do you have for this animal? None. I would argue probably very little. Having said that, you know, people who are busy have animals and they might have people who take care of those animals for them, and that's fine, because what's really important is that the animal is taken care of. But. But in this instance, I think that he does not have an animal that needs taken care of. He has an image that needs taken care of, and he thinks that the dog facilitates some sort of rehabilitation, although he clearly doesn't care about that much, or he wouldn't have moved to LSU anyway. I hate Lane Kiffin, man. Not for me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Got a lot of there. Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Hard pass on Lane. And that doesn't really have anything to do with the PR doc. The PR doc dog is funny. The PR dog is arguably kind of just be a villain. If you're gonna do this, you gotta. Sorry for all the swearing. You gotta just gotta accept it. You. You are the guy.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Who is willing to cut bait.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

To go to lsu.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And, you know, I mean, even having dogs does not make you a good person. You know, you can't purely rehabilitate your image. Even Cruella to Ville had Dalmatians. So it's. It's not. Well, necessarily have. Well, I guess.

[Meg Rowley]

Did she have Dalmatians or did she.

[Ben Lindbergh]

She was interested in her dalmatians acquiring Dalmatians, but.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Had designs on them becoming fur coats. So.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, I don't think she had Dalmatians. You know, she just yeah. She was in possession of Dalmatians.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah. What a weird thing to make fur coats out of, by the way. Why?

[Meg Rowley]

I know why Dalmatians.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It doesn't even track if you were going to be a fur wearing person. Why dogs get a chow.

[Meg Rowley]

I mean to be clear. Don't. Don't for that purpose and maybe not at all because they're very difficult is my understanding. Chows.

[Ben Lindbergh]

According to the Cruella de Vil Wikipedia page, the live action Disney film reveals that Cruella chooses to skin puppies. A terrible phrase because when short haired dogs grow older their fur becomes coarse and does not sell as well as the fine soft fur of puppies. Again, there are animals with.

[Meg Rowley]

Why.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. You don't have to do dogs at all there historically lots of other animals that have.

[Meg Rowley]

Right. Why are you in the dog space?

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, I guess that is. She is named Cruella, which does seem to be a nomination covenant of determinism, instance where I don't know whether that turned her cruel or whether she was always wired to be a dog wearer. But appropriate, I suppose. And you know the, the puppy skinning really part and parcel with the character and the name. So you know, it's a character trait.

[Meg Rowley]

Does the Emma Stone version of her like do the puppy thing, you know, because like didn't she get like a live action.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's. That's the one I'm referring to here. That a little lore.

[Meg Rowley]

No, but there was also a live action 101 Dalmatians with Glenn Close as Cruella.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. And then the. Excuse me, the actual Cruella movie from 2021. It's the whole Cruella extended universe. Anyway.

[Meg Rowley]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay.

[Meg Rowley]

We were all clamoring for it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. I wonder whether the Ippei show will show decoy potentially being taken care of by Ippe and his wife, which maybe per Porsche the show Bay on this podcast. That was the arrangement, at least for a time. Okay. Oh, and. And you mused on the last episode when we were talking about Usinson Garcia, AKA Password.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Whether his brother has a nickname that's Johan Fran Garcia, who's a 21 year old catcher. Sometime catcher in the Red Sox system also. Yeah, that's just an easier name to.

[Meg Rowley]

Say and spell Johan is easier to say. But. But it's still, you know. So Johan Fern was in fall league this year and my.

Proposal for his nickname was that he should be called. So they have password and then username. Right. Was the. But I think they should call him Captcha. You know, like the.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

And because he's a catcher, so it's like you're captcha the ball, but also his name.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, the username doesn't work so well except in concert with password, because there's nothing about Johan Fran that's particularly username Y. It's Jostensen. Is. Is the password. Because there are just so many letters that we're not accustomed to seeing.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

In tandem and. Yeah. So Johan Fran. I. I don't think he even needs a nickname. I just like saying Johan Fran, so I'll take every opportunity to say Johan.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, better name than a baseball player. But, I mean, I don't want to bury the young man based on F looks, but I. I don't think he's assumed to be like a. A top prospect or anything like that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I hope both of the Garcia brothers pan out and choose to be represented by Scott Bors so that this can all come full circle. We'll see what he can do with Johann that evil in the world.

[Meg Rowley]

What is wrong with you?

[Ben Lindbergh]

That'll be the final boss for Boris. That'll be the ultimate challenge. So much material.

[Meg Rowley]

He should have to pronounce both of their names 10 times in a row without error before he's allowed to represent them.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's like, you must be this tall to ride.

[Meg Rowley]

To ride this ride. Yeah, exactly.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, it's hard work to assemble the Scott Boris puns, but someone has to do it. Actually, it's not that hard, and no one has to do it. But I was wishing that there could be a central Boris pun repository, a database of Boris puns. So it becomes a Boris scavenger hunt. Because they're just scattered across various social media media feeds that you have to scour to collect them all. And if you don't do it in the moment, they can be tough to track down again. They're so fleeting, so ephemeral, like a lot of what's precious in this life. So I'm thinking, oh, he has to have used polar bear and polar vortex in connection with Pete Alonso before. And I could Google, I could try to look it up, but what if I could just type that in? I'm not suggesting that fan graphs should add that to the player pages. Some stat called Boris pun. You have to be a pretty good player to merit a Boris pun. In fact, one thing I'd like to look up. Who's the worst client, the worst free agent ever, to earn the Boris pun treatment? One and only one inquiring mind wants but does not need to know. But if anyone is in the market for a useless research project and wants to scrape social media and websites and newspaper clippings to create a comprehensive record of Boris puns, well, it wouldn't be a total waste of time, because I would welcome it. And what better way to while away the winter again, There are much better ways. Someday, hopefully many years from now, when Scott Boris departs this life, perhaps he'll donate his papers to some archive. And when they're clearing out his records, they'll just find a bunch of papers and post its with puns scribbled onto them. Maybe there's an intern at Boris Corp Whose job it is to record these puns for posterity. Though there do seem to be some repeats, so probably not. Whatever additional transactions transpire, we will save for a roundup later this week once Meg has traveled to back to her home base. If, after hearing us regale you with Scott Boris, Pun's Lane Kiffin, Canine Conspiracies and the canon of Cruella de Vil, you still choose to support this podcast on Patreon. Hey, it's the off season. It's peak off season content. You can do so by going to patreon.com effectively wild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some perks, as have the following five listeners Caitlyn Suieka, Marco Gasparo, Mike Snyder, Morgan Gray, and Rick Glidden. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, prioritized email answers, potential podcast appearances, discounts on merch and ad free fangraphs memberships, and so much more. Check out all the [e-mail] effectivelywild if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to [e-mail] you can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music and other podcast platforms. You can join our facebook [e-mail] group effectively wild. You can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at R Effectively Wild and you can check the show notes in the podcast posted fangraphs or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we cited today. One link you'll find there includes the sign up form for official Effectively Wild Secret Santa. This is the last time I'll remind you about the Secret Santa activity because the deadline is December 10th at 9am Pacific Noon Eastern. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with that third episode before the end of the week. Talk to you then.

[Meg Rowley]

Where do you go in a world of bad takes for the good Takes on baseball and life with a balance of analytics and humor. Philosophical music.

Effectively wild.

Effectively wild. Effectively wild. Sam.