Effectively Wild Episode 2432: What Stars Deserve

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2432: What Stars Deserve
FanGraphs Baseball Podcast – January 28, 2026
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh, Meg Rowley, (Guest co-host: Julia Poe)
Main Theme:
Exploring what teams owe their franchise legends, current and former players' social and political voices, baseball's place in Jeopardy and pop culture, and trends in fan-favorite transactions and wellness fads among MLB stars.

---

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the intersection of baseball, activism, and fandom, centering on recent player transactions, the nuances of long-term extensions for baseball stars, and the ever-present tension between on-field performance and off-field legacy. The hosts also welcome Zach Golin for a Stat Blast exploring baseball’s overrepresentation on Jeopardy! and its implications for trivia fans and pop culture.

---

Acknowledging the World Beyond Baseball

00:40 – 07:03

• Opening with Empathy: Before jumping into baseball, Ben and the team provide a heartfelt acknowledgment of current real-world horrors, especially those affecting local communities (ICE and DHS actions, specific individuals harmed, etc.).
  • Notable Quote (Ben, 01:00):
    “We see you protecting your neighbors. We see you organizing and documenting and bearing witness to all the horror that's going on in your city … Your courage gives us courage, because these people want us all to feel afraid and alone. And we aren't.”
• Segues into Sports: The hosts discuss the challenge of balancing sports as escapism and distraction with the importance of recognizing ongoing societal distress.
  • Notable Quote (Julia, 04:02):
    “There's a fine line between a useful distraction and an actual distracting distraction.”

---

Athlete Activism and Baseball’s Quietude

07:11 – 16:57

• Comparative Silence in Baseball: The team highlights baseball’s relative lack of public activism compared to sports like the NBA and WNBA.
  • Reference to recent research showing demographics and political skews in the fandom and why many players stay silent.
• Spotlight: Cole Calhoun’s Surprising Statement
  • Julia and Meg discuss Cole Calhoun’s unexpected, impassioned IG statement about immigration and racism.
    • Calhoun’s perspective: In baseball, players from diverse backgrounds share the clubhouse, but there’s a culture of not speaking out, partly due to lack of information or clubhouse dynamics.
    • Direct condemnation by Calhoun of current administration's policies:
      Notable Quote (Julia paraphrasing Calhoun, 10:06):
      “What this administration is doing when it comes to immigration is blatantly racist. Targeting people based on the color of their skin or the sound of their last name.”
  • Discussion of privilege and risks for foreign-born players taking public stands.
  • The hosts’ admiration for those who “find their voice” even if they’re late to activism—because diversity of messengers can matter.

---

From the Sublime to the Ridiculous: Baseball Injury Banter & Off-Field Fads

17:15 – 39:57

Carlos Rodón’s Elbow “They Took a Lot of Bones Out”

17:48 – 21:53

• Medical Marvels and Player Interview Fun:
  • Carlos Rodón bemusedly updates on elbow surgery: “They took a lot of bones out, but it's better now.”
    • Hosts riff on the phrase, imagining him as “newly boneless” and joke about “loose bodies” in the elbow.

Bryce Harper’s Wellness Adventures

22:14 – 31:57

• Bryce Harper’s Notorious Instagram:
  • Ongoing critique of Harper’s “pseudoscientific” health habits—blood ozone treatments, raw milk, and now, red light therapy mats.
  • Conspiracy posts: Harper’s shares about chemtrails and “cloud seeding”, exemplifying the odd info-ecosystem some athletes inhabit.
  • Discussion on athlete vulnerability to expensive or dubious health fads as they seek edge or longevity.

Mike Trout Joins the Wellness Item Endorsement Game

33:08 – 39:46

• Mike Trout’s “Amortal” Chamber Investment:
  • Trout’s new role as ambassador/investor in an expensive (>$159,000) “infrared EMF” wellness device.
  • Satirical breakdown of its extravagant marketing (“used by MLB, goop, etc.”), testimonials, and vague health claims.
  • Hosts muse on the intersection of self-care, faddism, wealth, and the influence on less skeptical fans.

---

Transactions and Franchise Building

40:39 – 48:38

Giants Sign Harrison Bader

40:46 – 47:05

• Deal Details:
  • Two-year, $20.5M contract—seen as a “very Giants” move.
• Reaction:
  • Both surprised Bader didn’t get more, given his previous season.
  • A boost for the Giants’ defense, especially in center; hosts discuss platoon use and need for more “blue-chip” internally developed stars.
  • Echoed theme: Giants solid but unexciting offseason, and how lacking a core of homegrown stars limits their upside.

---

What Do Teams Owe Their Franchise Legends (and Vice Versa)?

48:04 – 85:33

1. Jose Ramirez’s New Extension with Cleveland

48:38 – 70:09

• Deal Structure:
  • Extends Ramirez through 2032, with financial deferrals extending through 2051 (“Jose Day” replacing Bobby Bonilla Day).
• Player/Franchise Loyalty:
  • Ramirez prioritizes staying in Cleveland for family and community, even at below-market value.
    • Notable Quote (Ramirez via Meg, 55:11):
      “I knew it wasn't fully reflective of my market value…But my heart was set on staying in Cleveland.”
• Moral Dilemmas:
  • Meg expresses conflict: happiness for Ramirez’s comfort vs. frustration that “parsimonious” ownership continues benefiting from under-market deals, which may suppress wider player earnings.
  • Pragmatics: In some markets, only “Jersey Guys” (lifelong franchise players) like Ramirez can extract even modestly competitive wages.
  • Emotional resonance: The joy and specialness of a star spending an entire career in one city.
  • Discussion about Ramirez’s statistical greatness, durability, and value vs. earned compensation—$460+ million in estimated career WAR value vs. much less in salary.
  • Reflection on “legacy over money” paths and how they shape franchise narratives.

2. Andrew McCutchen and the End-of-Career Dilemma

70:09 – 85:33

• The Snub:
  • Andrew McCutchen, franchise icon, is not invited to Pirates FanFest; GM Ben Charrington signals Kutch likely will not return.
    • Notable Quote (McCutchen tweet, 72:41):
      “If this is my last year, it would have been nice to meet the fans one last time as a player…This is bigger than baseball … The fans deserved at the very least to get that opportunity.”
  • Hosts dissect the complexities: when does honoring a star’s past take a roster spot from progress? How much does a franchise owe its living legends?
    • Balanced views: It is a “business,” and the player is now replacement-level; but poor communication/public relations can mar a relationship unnecessarily.
  • Comparison to other “farewell tours” (Ortiz, Pujols, Miggy, Kershaw, etc.)
  • The solution: More often, a frank but kind plan to honor the past (e.g. special assistant role) after playing days.

---

Stat Blast: Is Baseball Overrepresented in Jeopardy! Questions?

86:22 – 106:17

Guest: Zach Golin (Defector, Jeopardy/Pop Culture Jeopardy champion, data scientist)

Topic:

• Does Jeopardy! focus more on baseball than other sports, compared to pop culture and crossword puzzles?

Key Insights & Timestamps:

• Jeopardy! Sports Pop Quiz:
  • “The more popular things are better known…the sports was, by percent correct, the third-best in the data…” (Zach, 89:32)
  • Sports are about 2–3% of all Jeopardy questions, thousands over the decades.
• Baseball’s Dominance:
  • Confirmed: baseball comes first among sports questions (20–25%), closely followed by football, with Olympics also high.
  • Reasons: Baseball’s long history, statistical culture, and American mythos lead to durable, easy-to-ask trivia (e.g., Babe Ruth, Yankees, etc.).
  • Basketball is consistently fourth; other sports are marginal.
    • “It’s really Yankees, Red Sox, and then everybody else.” (Zach, 104:09)
• Depth and Repetition:
  • Hardly ever asks about deep cuts, very much “a mile wide, inch deep.”
  • Even stars like Shohei Ohtani come up “about once a year.”
• Preparation Advice:
  • “Listening to Effectively Wild is probably not the best preparation for any aspiring Jeopardy! winner…But for Sports Jeopardy? That’s another story.” (Zach, 104:59)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Baseball Activism:
  “I do think it takes some small amount of courage in the baseball ecosystem to say something. … But I guess the actual minimum is nothing. And most people at baseball do nothing.” – Meg (06:48)
• On Risk for Foreign-Born Players:
  “If a foreign born player here on a visa were to be very vocal, I think the chances of him getting his visa revoked are probably pretty low…but they're not zero.” – Ben (13:21)
• On Medical Banter:
  “They took a bunch of bones out and now it works better because the problematic bones are gone. … So nothing to see here.” – Meg (18:54)
• On Fads in Player Wellness:
  “When you have as much money as Bryce Harper … you just start reaching for anything out there.” – Julia (29:45)
• On Franchise Legends:
  “A lovely thing when a player can spend his whole career in one city with one team and be beloved … but I don’t think players owe a discount to their team or the fans.” – Meg (70:09)
• On Pittsburgh Not Inviting McCutchen:
  “He’s a franchise icon. … He can just come to FanFest, right?” – Ben (77:39)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Opening Statement: Real-world context | 00:40–07:03 | | Athlete Activism/Cole Calhoun | 07:11–16:57 | | Carlos Rodón’s Medical Update | 17:48–21:53 | | Bryce Harper & Wellness Fads | 22:14–31:57 | | Mike Trout’s “Amortal” Chamber | 33:08–39:46 | | Giants’ Harrison Bader Signing | 40:46–47:05 | | Jose Ramirez’s Guardians Extension | 48:38–70:09 | | Andrew McCutchen’s Endgame with Pirates | 70:09–85:33 | | Stat Blast: Baseball & Jeopardy! (Zach Golin) | 86:22–106:17 |

---

Episode Takeaways

• Baseball is both a robust distraction in turbulent times and a reflection of those times, through its politics, personalities, and myths.
• Teams and players must continuously renegotiate the meaning of loyalty, compensation, legacy, and mutual obligation—especially as stars age or seek new roles.
• Baseball retains an outsized place in US trivia, culture, and myth despite changing sports popularity.
• Fandom and player self-care both intersect and diverge in sometimes comical, sometimes sobering ways (wellness fads, role transitions).

---

For New Listeners:
This episode typifies Effectively Wild’s thoughtful blend of acute baseball analysis, human empathy, and playful banter—touching on news, numbers, culture, and heart with a sharp yet generous eye.

Transcript

[Meg Rowley]

I just a fan who wants Nothing less than effectively wild oh, wild oh wild oh wild Nothing less than effectively.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wild hello, and welcome to episode 2432 of Effectively Wild a Fan Graph Spaceball Podcast, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg. Relax. Julia Fangraffs, and I'm joined by Ben Limberg of the Ringer. Ben, how are you?

[Meg Rowley]

Okay.

[Julia Poe]

I could ask how you are, but what a question these days.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah, I. So we're gonna. We're gonna do a normal show here. It does feel weird to single out today as, like, a day in the horrors that needs recognizing, because, candidly, they've been unfurling for a while. But, you know, before we started recording, I said to you that it feels like it. It is necessary to acknowledge the world and how it stands. And I was thinking about what I would want to hear from a baseball podcast in January when, like, the big news of the day is former twin Harrison Bader signing with the Giants. And I think, you know, if I were living in Minnesota and in the Twin Cities right now, like, I might want to hear about how different baseball would be if it had a pit or if the outfielders had an extra arm growing out of their head and what kind of hair that arm would have. And I think I'd welcome a distraction. But I think I'd also appreciate knowing that I was seen, that what ICE and DHS are doing in my community was being seen and was being understood clearly. So we'll get to Bader and Jose Ramirez, and we have a fun guest and a guest step last. But before we get to any of that, I just wanted to say that we see, you know, we see you protecting your neighbors. We see you delivering groceries. We see you trying to make sure that folks aren't getting snatched off the street and that kids are getting home safe from school. And we see you organizing and documenting and bearing witness to all the horror that's going on in your city in the hopes that someday the people inflicting these harms might face some kind of justice. And that in the meantime, we actually know what. What happened to Renee Good and Alex Preddy and Liam Ramos and all the other people who have been affected by this occupation. We see you doing that, even though we know that that can come with very grave cost and consequence. And so I just wanted to say that we see you, and your courage gives us courage, because these people want us all to feel afraid and alone. And we aren't. We aren't just like the people in LA weren't alone. And Chicago and in Maine and in Arizona and Seattle and everywhere that they are trying to scare people and rip apart families. So we aren't alone and neither are you. And we see you. So I hope that you're staying warm and keeping well and that this provides a little bit of respite for you. And I know that's a meager thank you, but it's a sincere one. And so, yeah, I hope that we can be a port in the storm, however briefly.

[Meg Rowley]

So well said and glad you said it.

[Julia Poe]

And yeah, it's always awkward to segue.

[Meg Rowley]

From something like that to baseball. I never know whether it's more jarring.

[Julia Poe]

To go from acknowledging that the government is gunning down citizens to baseball banter.

[Meg Rowley]

Or not acknowledging that and just going straight into baseball banter. Either way, not ideal. But, you know, there's a fine line, I guess, between a useful distraction and an actual distracting distraction.

[Julia Poe]

And I don't think we here at Effectively Wild have the power to distract society from the actual ills that are befalling it here. And clearly attention seems to be increasingly focused on what it should be focused on and in hopefully productive and efficacious ways and hopefully whatever you are doing.

[Meg Rowley]

To sort of soothe yourself in the other moments, because it's very difficult to be fixating on these things at every.

[Julia Poe]

Moment of the day. I know for some folks it's, it's unavoidable. It's almost a luxury to be able.

[Meg Rowley]

To tune out for any stretch of time, of course. But many of us find ourselves in.

[Julia Poe]

That situation where you just need some sort of respite from the horrors.

[Meg Rowley]

And maybe it's a baseball podcast, maybe it's something else.

[Julia Poe]

You know, don't let it distract you.

[Meg Rowley]

From contributing, helping pitching in in various ways.

[Julia Poe]

But if while you're doing that you enjoy walling away some hours by listening to us banter about baseball, then that's great. Happy that we could in some small way.

[Meg Rowley]

And you know, whenever something like this.

[Julia Poe]

Happens, people as sports fans are interested in any kind of tangential sports connection or baseball connection. And everyone does the thing where they sort of scour social media to see.

[Meg Rowley]

Who has said something and who hasn't said something. And baseball and baseball players take a.

[Julia Poe]

Lot of flack for not being very.

[Meg Rowley]

Vocal, you know, relative to athletes and other sports.

[Julia Poe]

And I mentioned on an outro last week some research that was published recently about the demographics of, of baseball fandom and how people are registered. You know, according to the public voter registration data in MLB compared to other sports. And there's nothing surprising there about the political skew.

[Meg Rowley]

But even apart from that, just, you know, baseball tends to be pretty quiet.

[Julia Poe]

About things relative to other sports. And so if you're, you know, paying.

[Meg Rowley]

Attention to the NBA, the wnba, and.

[Julia Poe]

You'Re seeing people like Briana Stewart and.

[Meg Rowley]

Carl Anthony Towns and Tyrese Halberton and.

[Julia Poe]

Put out statements and then you're sort.

[Meg Rowley]

Of, did anyone in baseball say anything about this? And yeah, I know the NBA is in season. MLB is not. Baseball players aren't being asked about this.

[Julia Poe]

The way Wemby was, for instance. But there's just a tradition of more vocal activism in some sports compared to baseball.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, a few people put up posts and I know Spencer Strider did.

[Julia Poe]

And Bailey Ober and Simeon Woods Richardson.

[Meg Rowley]

And you know, I don't know how.

[Julia Poe]

Helpful it is to sort of parse.

[Meg Rowley]

Everyone'S social media and just like, did they say something?

[Julia Poe]

Why didn't they say something? Or you know, celebrating people who did say something.

[Meg Rowley]

I do think it takes some small amount of courage in the baseball ecosystem to say something. You know, I mean, putting up a.

[Julia Poe]

A post on Instagram or whatever is, is like the minimum that someone can do. But I guess the actual minimum is, is nothing.

[Meg Rowley]

And most people at baseball do nothing. And you know, what effect does actually posting something have?

[Julia Poe]

I don't know, Maybe it's minimal. Maybe it is just making someone feel seen or heard or feeling like the.

[Meg Rowley]

Thing that they love and the thing they lavish all this attention on the sports that they pay so much attention.

[Julia Poe]

To that there are some like minded people in that world. And maybe that's kind of comforting on some level.

[Meg Rowley]

And I did just want to shout out one statement from a somewhat surprising.

[Julia Poe]

Source, which is, you could have given.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Me a thousand guesses and I would not have, I would not never in a million years have thought that this would be the guy.

[Meg Rowley]

If you don't know who I'm referring to, then you can pause the podcast right now and, and you can make.

[Julia Poe]

A thousand guesses and, and see if you come up with the answer.

[Meg Rowley]

But Cole Calhoun, Cole Calhoun put up some statements on his Instagram stories that honestly probably the most vocal statement of.

[Julia Poe]

Of anyone because, you know, other people put up images and that's all well and good, but, but Cole Calhoun put up a lot of just well thought out messages and statements and like, clearly this was weighing on him and he wanted to say something and get it off his chest.

[Meg Rowley]

And yeah, I, I felt almost bad.

[Julia Poe]

For, for Being surprised that Cole Calhoun.

[Meg Rowley]

Because I don't really know very much about Cole Calhoun. And, you know, maybe you make assumptions about Cole Calhoun and whether he's the sort of person who would be putting up statements about this.

[Julia Poe]

I saw a lot of, like, oh.

[Meg Rowley]

Cole Calhoun wasn't familiar with your game. Like, did not know, like woke Cole Calhoun based. Cole Calhoun was. Was not aware. But it was a really thoughtful statement. And it was interesting because he kind of put it in the baseball context and he talked about being a baseball player and how in baseball a lot of people just aren't well informed about politics.

[Julia Poe]

And. And he said, by his own admission, he wasn't. And so he would have been reluctant.

[Meg Rowley]

To say something because, you know, you.

[Julia Poe]

Could foot in your mouth and, and you just haven't studied the issues. And then of course, you know, he didn't really get into this. But because there is sort of a political skew in baseball clubhouses, maybe it's sort of frowned upon or maybe, you know, you might feel a little isolated if you said something. I don't know how often that becomes.

[Meg Rowley]

A big deal inside clubhouses, but there might just be kind of a culture.

[Julia Poe]

Of not speaking up about stuff.

[Meg Rowley]

And he likened it to his baseball experience, where he talked about how he's.

[Julia Poe]

In baseball with people from many different countries, different backgrounds, different nationalities, different socioeconomic origins, et cetera. Lots of people, his best friends in the game, their first language wasn't English. They didn't look like him. You know, they built lives for themselves in this country around baseball. That was their dream. Baseball was the mechanism.

[Meg Rowley]

Lots of stuff along those lines. But then also just you know, kind of not pulling punches.

[Julia Poe]

And, and he said what this administration is doing when it comes to immigration is blatantly racist. Targeting people based on the color of their skin or the sound of their last name.

[Meg Rowley]

And I'm sure that there are people.

[Julia Poe]

Who say that and think, oh, now you're saying something, or you know, anyone.

[Meg Rowley]

Else who's sort of speaking up for the first time, oh, this is what made you do it. Because as you said, you could put.

[Julia Poe]

Up some statement about some heinous thing every day. You know, just pick a day and you'd find something. And so it's like, oh, well, now that victim is a white guy and a gun owner. That's the, the last straw.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, there's a lot of that kind of reaction. And, you know, fair enough. I. I guess, like, if you're someone who's more plugged in and, and has been aware of things going on for years and years, then you might look.

[Julia Poe]

At the Johnny Come lately and say, oh, this is the thing that.

[Meg Rowley]

That pushed you over the line. But when it's sort of put the way Calhoun put it from, you know, sort of a perspective where he's acknowledgin just like lack of schooling on certain issues, I guess, but just sort of coming to this and realizing that this violates every principle he holds dear that he thinks is integral to the country and everything. You know, I think people like that.

[Julia Poe]

Speaking up, that's needed, too, because that can sometimes be the most persuasive messenger, and sometimes that can more clearly send the signal, you know, coming from one group instead of another group, that, hey.

[Meg Rowley]

This is really beyond the pale. So much as beyond the pale if you're pushing Cole Calhoun to say something. Right.

[Julia Poe]

And I don't know much about Cole Calhoun as a person.

[Meg Rowley]

Like, you know, I talked to him one time for about 15 minutes for an article I wrote in 2018 about his swing changes and how they had.

[Julia Poe]

Not gone well, and he was trying to do, like, a flyball revolution thing, and it backfired, and then he had to go back to his old swing.

[Meg Rowley]

And he had a historic slow start to the season, and then he got hot after that.

[Julia Poe]

So, you know, we didn't touch on politics in. In that brief conversation.

[Meg Rowley]

So I don't want to presume too much.

[Julia Poe]

I'm just bringing that up because he himself acknowledged that background in his statement.

[Meg Rowley]

But when the Cole Calhouns of the.

[Julia Poe]

World are coming out of the woodwork, then maybe that says something, and maybe other people could be persuaded by that.

[Meg Rowley]

So I appreciated and applauded that statement.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Particularly within the context of baseball and the players who. You're right to say, we don't know Cole Calhoun. We don't know other than what he offers himself about his previous political orientation. We don't really have a sense of him. And so I don't want to praise him overly, but I don't want to impugn him either. But I think that within the baseball context, there are players who you might expect to say something, given prior activism on their part. And some of those folks did say something. And then there's like, a whole swath of players who. I think the stakes of them being vocal, given the posture that this administration has taken toward people here on visas who have been critical of them, like, it's. It's quite dangerous.

[Julia Poe]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And I don't know if, you know, I don't even want to Pick a hypothetical guy. But like, if a, if a foreign born player here on a visa were to be very vocal, you know, I think the chances of him getting his visa revoked are probably pretty low just given the political pull of Major League Baseball, but they're not zero. Right. And so I appreciate Calhoun recognizing that he is in a position of privilege relative to many others and using that to speak his mind. And I understand the frustration that you can feel when you feel like, okay, finally people are catching up, let's go, where have you been all this time? But I think that anytime people find their way to their voice on issues like this, who see suffering and have an empathetic response and say, I need to do something about that, I mean, that's part of what we're seeing with some of the folks on the ground in Minneapolis. Now, that's a community that has a history of activism, that has a, well, actualized community network. Unfortunately, this is not a new experience in some ways for folks in, in Minneapolis. But how many news stories have we seen over the past couple of weeks of just, you know, comfortable white folks from the suburbs coming and saying, I saw this on my TV and it's wrong. And so here I am, I'm showing up today, you know, and that has a, that has a lot of value because having, having strength in numbers, having people who are demographically privileged willing to put themselves on the line, understanding the stakes because the dangerous, and they're going anyway. So I, you know, I'm not saying that Cole Calhoun posting on Instagram is the same as someone willing to show up with a whistle and try to prevent ice from grabbing someone off the street. But we need all kinds and it needs to come in all forms. And yes, that can come from a redheaded retired outfield. I could have knocked me over in part just because, like Cole Calhoun, you know, Col, Calhoun's retired. He was never a guy who seemed like he was particularly interested in like, being famous. You know, like, he and I thought he and Trout were sort of complementary in a lot of ways, not the least of which is that they seemed dispositionally similar.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it's, it's not like he's, he's.

[Julia Poe]

Clout chasing Cole Calhoun, I don't think.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, no, that's not. And you know, to the extent that I've ever heard anything about Cole Calhoun, it was that he's like a good teammate, but like, you know, I, I just again, didn't know his game.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, Cole Calhoun, the embodiment of the.

[Julia Poe]

Vibe shift, I guess.

[Meg Rowley]

But Yeah, I mean, and maybe the fact that he is retired as a player.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Julia Poe]

Emboldened him to say something. You know, would he have if he was still active, if there was kind.

[Meg Rowley]

Of a cultural disapproval of that or if he even just like had less.

[Julia Poe]

Time on his hands to pay attention to anything other than baseball if he were still playing? Because, you know, to be a big.

[Meg Rowley]

Leaguer, often, you know, like you're. Your development, it's different in a lot.

[Julia Poe]

Of ways from the average person or, you know, any non professional athlete. It's like you're so hyper focused on this thing that you are among the very best in the world at and you are from such a young age and you're just associating with this select group of people who also do that thing.

[Meg Rowley]

And in certain circles, and it's just.

[Julia Poe]

Kind of head down, you know, focus on your career. And you only have so many years to kind of make it count before the skills give out and everything.

[Meg Rowley]

So.

[Julia Poe]

And it just takes precedence over a lot of other considerations, not for everyone, obviously, but just for a lot of folks. So you can kind of understand how that happens and just the background of baseball players and everything else.

[Meg Rowley]

But yeah, that was a heartening thing. So we've said our piece and you.

[Julia Poe]

Know, probably I don't have a whole lot else to say and express that many other people haven't also said and express.

[Meg Rowley]

But if you're feeling those things, we're feeling them too.

[Julia Poe]

And we will now talk about baseball somehow, I guess.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, so we do have a couple transactions to talk about. We've got a stat blast and in.

[Julia Poe]

Fact, a guest stat blaster who will.

[Meg Rowley]

Join us a little later in the episode. A couple non political statements that I just wanted to highlight from baseball players.

[Julia Poe]

Because they kind of caught my eye.

[Meg Rowley]

1. So, okay, so this one, this made.

[Julia Poe]

Me do a bit of a double take in the baseball players, they're not.

[Meg Rowley]

Like us kind of category because. Because Carlos Rodin, who is recovering from.

[Julia Poe]

Elbow surgery, he was at the New York Baseball Raiders gala, he was on foul territory and he was giving an update on the state of his elbow and he was talking about how he can touch the top of his head now and he can button and unbutton his shirt.

[Meg Rowley]

Congrats, Carlos Roddon. It seems like his quality of life has improved post surgery. But here's also something he said.

[Zach Golin]

Been throwing a lot lately. Just trying to, I guess, lube up this elbow Jo, and get it going for the season.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So it took a lot of bones.

[Meg Rowley]

Out, but it's it's better now. The surgeons took a lot of bones.

[Julia Poe]

Out, but it's better now.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What?

[Meg Rowley]

They took a lot of bones out?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wait.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, they took a lot of bones out, but it's better now, so don't worry about it. But they took a bunch of bones out and.

[Julia Poe]

And now it works better because the.

[Meg Rowley]

Problematic bones are gone. And we just removed some bones and now his elbow is functioning, so. So nothing to see here.

[Julia Poe]

Great news. Thanks for the medical update, Carlos.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Did he have extras in there?

[Meg Rowley]

That's what I did.

[Julia Poe]

He.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Did he, like. Did he have bone spurs? Did he have a. Like a.

[Meg Rowley]

So he had, like, loose bodies removed.

[Julia Poe]

You know, which also is.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I love it. It's my favorite medical description. I got loose bodies in there.

[Meg Rowley]

It's like loose bodies.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I always imagine that if they, like, shook their arm, you'd hear, like, just rattle. Yeah, like. Yeah, exactly. Like.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it might be kind of like. But yeah, he's, you know, he's lubing up the elbow. He's got some loose bodies, but. And I think there was a bone.

[Julia Poe]

Spur that was shaved down.

[Meg Rowley]

But. But the way he said it. Yeah, he said, like, they took a bunch of bones out there, which I. I guess is true.

[Julia Poe]

Like, if you're just removing bone chips or fragments or something. I guess that is actually true.

[Meg Rowley]

But he didn't say bone chips or fragments. He just said they took a bunch of bones out of there. And I was just picturing, like, is.

[Julia Poe]

This some sort of ra.

[Meg Rowley]

Dicky situation? But for bones, where it's just like, doesn't have a. He has no bones anymore. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's better now because the bones were the problem.

[Julia Poe]

So we just removed the bones and now he's just a very. Like, you'd have an especially loose body, I guess, if you had no bones.

[Meg Rowley]

Be extremely loose. But yeah, it's just like they went in there, you know, they. They took out the radius, they took out the ulna. You know, I didn't need my humerus anymore, so we just removed those.

[Julia Poe]

And it's just sort of a skin sac now.

[Meg Rowley]

But it's better because I can touch.

[Julia Poe]

The top of my head and button my buttons. So. All good. I'll be back on the mound soon.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I was just thinking over the weekend as I was watching football Go Hawks, that, you know, they do. They do all these post game interviews and these guys are just media trained to within an inch of their lives. And I understand that on balance, we are spared from some probably true depravity as a result of them all being media trained within an inch of their lives. And there are guys who I am fine not hearing from, even as we sit here and praise, you know, the. The great communicators among us, like Cole Calhoun. But I. I do wonder if we'd have more fun even if we have lower lows, if these guys, like, shot from the hip a little bit more. And I feel like. I feel like I now have further evidence to this, to this thesis. You know, I'm. I'm. It's bolstered by. Took some bones out. Like, what. What does the PR staff think when they hear that? Are they like. Wait, bones? Bones? Like plural? Like multiple bones.

[Meg Rowley]

They're gone now. Yeah. Turns out I didn't need them.

[Julia Poe]

Better off without him.

[Meg Rowley]

So that's how cross Rodan's elbow is doing. If anyone is wondering, it's newly boneless.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, fewer bones.

[Julia Poe]

Not boneless, not bone free, but just less bony than it was and all lubed up. So good news.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Now I'm imagining like a little mini pit crew and he, like, puts his elbow down and then like two little guy. Like, maybe they're mice. Yeah, yeah, maybe they're like a little elbow mice. And they come out and they're like. And then he's like, okay, ready to go. I know how racing works, and I.

[Meg Rowley]

Think I'd rather have a health update from Carlos Rodan than from Bryce Harper.

[Julia Poe]

Because I. I can't avoid. I don't follow Bryce Harper on any right channels.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm not seeking out.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Free me from this man's Instagram. Free me from it.

[Meg Rowley]

His Instagram and his TikTok are all over my feeds, despite the fact that I did not. Not sign up for that. I did not subscribe to that. But he's been on his BS again and he's gone from. I'm trying to. You know, some people don't like it when we.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I know. I've. I'm trying to do better.

[Meg Rowley]

I. I did Shane bleep all the time, but I'm sorry. He's good with a bleep. It's okay. No, that people. Most people appreciate it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I know, but it. It doesn't need to be done to excess. I understand. I understand.

[Meg Rowley]

Some people, they got kids, tender years.

[Zach Golin]

I get it.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm. I suppose if you want to hear receptive to fe. Full on Meg work in blue.

[Julia Poe]

Subscribe to our Patreon because on our bonus pods, we don't bleep, baby.

[Meg Rowley]

We don't.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We don't bleep.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. So anyway, Bryce Harper, last time we.

[Julia Poe]

Talked about him was about the blood.

[Meg Rowley]

Circulation outside his body and the. The ozone in his blood and this.

[Julia Poe]

Pseudoscientific treatment that was happening and you were quite disturbed by the volumes of blood that was being cycled in and out of his bloodstream.

[Meg Rowley]

And of course we've talked about the raw milk, but the latest is that I think his, his TikTok reposts, which.

[Julia Poe]

I guess we can distinguish between reposts and posts, but you know, it's not.

[Meg Rowley]

The old standard Twitter bio disclaimer.

[Julia Poe]

Like retweets are not endorsements.

[Meg Rowley]

I think probably they are endorsements most.

[Julia Poe]

Of the time, which is why people felt the need to put that disclaimer.

[Meg Rowley]

On their bio sometimes. But he had one TikTok repost, which was some conversation from some show where some man was expressing the position that a five year old boy's got no.

[Julia Poe]

Business being in school. What? That five year old boys should just exist in some sort of Mowgli in the Jungle Book like state of Nature basically just to like get it out of their system and not confine them to book learning. They should just be out there wrestling or whatever, which, you know, sure, sometimes you gotta get that out of their system, but it doesn't mean that it.

[Meg Rowley]

Can'T be combined with schooling and other kinds of formal education as well. You know, case by case basis, by all means get physical activity, but doesn't.

[Julia Poe]

Preclude being educated in other ways.

[Meg Rowley]

But that was one and then the other one was some kind of cloud seeding, chemtrails conspiracy. Just asking questions, musing about how isn't.

[Julia Poe]

It strange that snowstorms are always on.

[Meg Rowley]

The weekends or something along these lines. I only dipped my toe into this.

[Julia Poe]

Because, you know, I wanted to limit my own exposure.

[Meg Rowley]

But this is what I gleaned. You know, someone just wondering why. Why are all the snowstorms on the weekends?

[Julia Poe]

And is that because someone is making it so.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So wait a second. Sorry. I know that this is like not the point. I. They're not all on the weekends.

[Meg Rowley]

I'm sure they're not. I have not done a study of that, but I'm quite confident that snowstorms are probably pretty ra. Distributes on weekdays.

[Julia Poe]

But maybe a meteorologist out there could stop blast that for us. Or we could have Brent Rooker back on now that he's been diving deep into meteorology.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We've noted this, that Trout responded to him. Right?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, well, I mentioned I hadn't actually seen that When I brought that up when Rooker was on here, I said he was like the new Mike Trout. And I was joking, but. But Mike Trout actually responded. Replied to Rooker. And it. And it was, I think Trout's first Twitter reply.

[Ben Lindbergh]

18 months or something. Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

In a really long time.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

So he was just brought out of his shell by Brent Rooker.

[Julia Poe]

He's like a kindred spirit.

[Meg Rowley]

Another baseball player obsessed with weather.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Someone's talking about the European model.

[Meg Rowley]

Just. Well, true to himself. And the other Brace Harper, I think this was on his Instagram stories. Again, too hard for me to. To keep the social media straight, but he posted a picture of him, like during the snowstorm. He was inside in what looked like.

[Julia Poe]

Sort of like a.

[Meg Rowley]

A blanket of some sort.

[Julia Poe]

Like a.

[Meg Rowley]

It looked like he was, you know, taking a nap in this gizmo, this.

[Julia Poe]

Device that was all lit up with. With red light.

[Ben Lindbergh]

There's a gizmo?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it was like a sleeping bag sort of. I don't know if it's actually for world. I'm sorry that I am now the one exposing you to this and all of our listeners, but yeah, it's. What is it?

[Julia Poe]

It's not like I even want to give promotion to the particular company, but.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It'S like just like. And you're just like. My algo is gonna be. I know, messed up.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it's. It's.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, it's like a red light thing. Oh, they do the, those face. They do those face masks.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it's like a infrared EMF mat, I think is what it is. It's.

[Julia Poe]

It's like, you know, it's supposed to improve various things, like infrared technology. It's supposed to, you know, ease pain and very vague claims. And just like what happens when you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Have too much money.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah, like pulsed electromagnetic field therapy.

[Meg Rowley]

And from what I could glean, this is probably not actively harmful. So that's good.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, it's good.

[Meg Rowley]

It's probably better than the bloods ozone stuff. It does seem like it's probably a waste of money.

[Julia Poe]

Like there's.

[Meg Rowley]

There could conceivably be some small benefits, but this thing costs like thousands of dollars.

[Julia Poe]

And you know, other therapies would probably be better. Like there's just doesn't seem to be strong evidence that this is, you know, very effective as a wellness device. But it's like, you know, low frequency.

[Meg Rowley]

Electromagnetic fields and then infrared heat. And also sometimes there are gemstones. You.

[Julia Poe]

You gotta get the gemstones involved. And it's, you know, know the sort of like reduce inflammation, stimulate cellular repair, you know, make you relax, whatever.

[Meg Rowley]

Which I guess if it makes you.

[Julia Poe]

Relax and just go to sleep in this thing, then maybe it could be therapeutic, but.

[Meg Rowley]

And maybe there's a placebo effect, but, you know, not the best bang for your buck. But that probably doesn't matter when you have as much money as Bryce Harper. Anyway. He has cocooned himself, encased himself in this thing. I saw a lot of people jeering that because he was wearing clothes in this image. Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Doesn't it not work? Like, isn't the whole thing like the red light to your skin?

[Meg Rowley]

So from what I read, this particular thing at least claims that it works through clothes. I mean, it may not work at all, but like, to the extent that it works, I mean, it's designed so that you. You can wear some light, loose, comfortable clothing while you do it. So I, I don't think he is.

[Julia Poe]

Actually doing it wrong. Maybe it's wrong to be doing it.

[Meg Rowley]

But I think he is following the.

[Julia Poe]

Instructions, more or less. So that's, that's one thing that we can, I guess, not knock him for, but.

[Meg Rowley]

But all the rest of it. So I don't know, it's. Look, clearly this and the hydrogen water and just like everything he's into in the raw milk, I mean, it's, it's.

[Julia Poe]

Of a piece, right. And clearly he has people in his life who have influenced him in these areas. And I just, I wonder, you know.

[Meg Rowley]

For all I know, he's always kind of been wired this way, but.

[Julia Poe]

But I do. It's hard not to psychoanalyze and say, like, well, when you start getting up there in years and you've been a phenom your whole life and you've been an MVP and you've been so good.

[Meg Rowley]

And then maybe the health starts slipping.

[Julia Poe]

A little bit and you're not quite.

[Meg Rowley]

The player you were, even though you're still really good and you've got. Got Dave Dombrowski coming out and, you know, factually stating that you are not performing at your peak, or at least you haven't of late, and sort of challenging you in a way or, you know, hoping that you get back to your best, like, even though you're signed.

[Julia Poe]

Long term and you have all the money in the world and your place in baseball is pretty assured, then I could see how maybe there would be.

[Meg Rowley]

Some sort of insecurity or you might just start reaching for.

[Julia Poe]

For anything thing out there and someone.

[Meg Rowley]

Says, oh, this will help with whatever.

[Julia Poe]

It is, whatever ails you, and you say, well, sure, why not try it. I. I can afford it. And what harm can it do?

[Meg Rowley]

You know, in, in the blood case, maybe some. Actually, in the Matt case, maybe not that much.

[Julia Poe]

But yeah, he's.

[Meg Rowley]

I, I dread really just Bryce Harper coming across my timelines because you just, you both never know what, what it's going to be about. And also you very much kind of do know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We didn't even get to the cloud seeding one these repost and cloud seating nonsense. Is this just. This is a polite way of saying chemtrails, right? That's what.

[Meg Rowley]

Yes.

[Julia Poe]

I don't even understand.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Sounds territorial. Let's call it cloud seeding.

[Julia Poe]

There was an image of what, you know, looked like a trail, a contrail, as some might call it a chemtrail in this post that he reposted.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So, yeah, I don't know what they do about this. I think you're right. Listen, if you're a woman of a certain age of a particular socioeconomic demo, you probably know a gal pal or two that has one of those red light masks. I don't know if they work. I'm like, I put, I put potions on my face, Ben. You know, I do. I got skin care. Does it do anything? I don't know.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Feels nice. Nice. You know, these, these claims have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration, but so I. We're all dupable and being duped, I guess, is my point. But, but also, it just, it just the, the sheer volume of things in this space again suggests that he is swimming in an information ecosystem that is, is pretty bad. And you're right, this is relatively harmless compared to, say, the blood thing. I don't think he's going to go on the IL because of this, but if he does the blood thing more, he could, you know, it might, but I don't know the effective way to have a conversation with him about it. I think that if the Phillies figure that out, they like, kind of have an obligation to tell the rest of the. I think everybody has a friend or a family member who's like, kind of in the space and you're like, oh, how, yeah, how worried do I need to be? You know, I'm from Seattle, so, like, there's, there's a fair amount of woo in the air, but, like, where are.

[Julia Poe]

We in the woo?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. And, and Mike Trout, by the way, not immune from this because his, his most recent post, aside from retweeting weather.

[Julia Poe]

Stuff and also replying to Brent Rooker.

[Meg Rowley]

Is A sponsored post about his partnership with a company called Amortal.

[Julia Poe]

That's a M M O R L.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Why would you do it? Like, it makes you sound like you're amoral.

[Meg Rowley]

It does make you sound like that, I guess.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's like, this is like the. This is like the man pill they sell on, like, late night TV where they're like, it's new genics. And I was like, no one was in that product meeting and was like, right. Did you say eugenics?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Is that. No. New genics. Okay, we re. Are you hearing it? Are you hearing it when I say it out loud?

[Meg Rowley]

They're hoping that you'll say it quickly and it'll sound, like, immortal and you'll.

[Julia Poe]

Say, oh, it makes me immortal.

[Meg Rowley]

Where do I sign up? Okay.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But it's okay.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

So anyway, he's. He's like a athlete ambassador and investor in this company. And it appears to be sort of the same kind of thing as the thing that Harper was using, except, I.

[Julia Poe]

Don'T know, maybe fancier, but.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, good.

[Meg Rowley]

I went to the website, and it says, used by health professionals, wellness clinics, and pro athletes nationwide. And then it shows the logos for Major League Baseball, the NFL, the Denver Broncos, the US Olympic Team, and goop, of course.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Gwyneth Paltrow's horse Goop is in here. Yes.

[Meg Rowley]

And prominently listed on the website, on the homepage is a quote from the senior science editor of goop.

[Julia Poe]

Goop.

[Meg Rowley]

Our minds were blown. Which I feel like the senior side center of GOOP is.

[Julia Poe]

Is not editing enough maybe, because I feel like.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I feel like their minds are always blown and that's part of the problem. Sort of like if you're. If you see a dog and you shake keys in its face. Whoa. Never seen that before.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it is.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It is funny. I'm sorry to. I'm sorry to bring up football again. And I don't think that his exposure to whatever David Cronenber ass like device. This is. Is why it happened. But it is kind of funny to have the Broncos go up here like, we can have after their quarterback, like, devastatingly broke his ankle.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, they should have.

[Julia Poe]

The 49ers. Maybe they should get these, like, infrared mats to deal with their substation radiation injuries.

[Ben Lindbergh]

John lynch was asked about that and then was like, oh, we're gonna look into it. I'm like, no, John, you need to stand up there and say, no, we looked into it, and it was nonsense.

[Meg Rowley]

I just looked into what this Mike Trout endorsed product costs. Would you care to guess?

[Julia Poe]

So I Think the Harper thing is like, 2,000 bucks or something like that. Something along those lines, which is like a.

[Meg Rowley]

This product. It's called the chamber.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's enormous.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. It's not actually a chamber by all appearances.

[Julia Poe]

It's not enclosed, but it's like this slab that you lie on. Gun. And it beams stuff at you. It is. It's very, you know, like Prometheus kind of.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, my God.

[Meg Rowley]

My. Okay, so we gave people a thousand guesses to come up with Cole Calhoun. I'll give you a thousand guesses to come up with the price for the immortal chamber. And maybe I should give you 159,000 guesses because that's what this cost. 100. $159,500. It costs 16,000 bucks for a deposit.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And why are they all. I don't love how they all have to be wearing oxygen. You know, that seems bad. I'm not a doctor, but neither of these people.

[Julia Poe]

Probably ozone fields. But.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, like this website, it says, you know, 95% of users experience full body relaxation. Well, so do I.

[Julia Poe]

When I lie down.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Massage.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. Like, when I go to sleep, I. I generally also experience that increased clarity. 85% of users experience increased clarity and a quieting of the mind with increased focus. 90% experience energetic restoration, which, again, like.

[Julia Poe]

I experience energetic restoration when I sleep.

[Meg Rowley]

Or eat or anything. So it's all very vague, and it's.

[Julia Poe]

A bunch of different supposed therapies and quote, unquote modalities, and it's just kind of like it will increase your health.

[Meg Rowley]

In all sorts of unspecified and very general ways.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So three of the four women in the testimonial section of this look like they shop at pcc, nor the Seattle heads know what I'm talking about.

[Meg Rowley]

Anyway, Mike Trout is. Is hawking this thing, and he said.

[Julia Poe]

That he discovered it mid season while working through my injury. Which one? I guess. But he says it's become an integral.

[Meg Rowley]

Part of his recovery program and how I approach performance.

[Julia Poe]

And.

[Meg Rowley]

And look, he needs all the help he can get. And if lying on this slab with red lights helps Mike Trout stay healthy and play better, then great. And if he has 159,500 bucks to spend, I'm sure they cut him a deal as an athlete, ambassador, and investor. But I assume this is more for.

[Julia Poe]

Like, teams and facilities than for the individual market, aside from extremely wealthy people who might also be the people who.

[Meg Rowley]

Are in the market for this sort of thing. But, yeah, so they want to do.

[Ben Lindbergh]

This three to four times a Week.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah. Can't.

[Meg Rowley]

Can't look anywhere without running into a.

[Julia Poe]

Future hall of Fame outfielder whose Rookie year was 2012, who is endorsing some.

[Meg Rowley]

Sort of suspect, expensive product. But that's the latest in Bryce Harper. And also maybe be Mike Trout.

[Julia Poe]

And will I be confronted with.

[Meg Rowley]

With more things that I will learn against my will and then inflict on others?

[Julia Poe]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Ben Lindbergh]

$59,000.

[Meg Rowley]

Incredible.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah. I mean, look, on a dollars per.

[Meg Rowley]

War basis, man, if you could just keep Mike Trout in another few games, it pays for itself.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I just, you know, I would just would say I still don't support a salary recap, but there are lines of persuasion that I feel like the owners haven't tried yet and keeping. Yeah, I'm kidding.

[Meg Rowley]

It's a fine line between, like, it's great that athletes are into taking care of themselves and the teams are, and that they've invested in all sorts of technology and new age products, some of which actually are beneficial and tested and proven. And that's. That's good. You know, it's certainly a lot better than when athletes and people in general.

[Julia Poe]

Were all smoking and not taking care of themselves and not exercising or whatever else. Right.

[Meg Rowley]

So.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right. Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Good. Invest in, in your body. It's going to make you a lot.

[Julia Poe]

Of money as a baseball player. Sure.

[Meg Rowley]

But also, you might get taken advantage of by some people who are just like, preying on athletes, you know, talking them into these things. So, look, if anyone has great scientific.

[Julia Poe]

Literature here that demonstrates the, the efficacy of these products beyond all doubt, I will stand corrected and, and feel free to pass that literature along. But for now, I will just continue to marvel and jeer.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, so a couple transactions. One, yes, the Giants signed Harrison Bader.

[Julia Poe]

And it's a very giant sort of signing.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, that's about as exciting as.

[Julia Poe]

It gets for the Giants these days.

[Meg Rowley]

Harrison Bader. I like it, too. Yeah. I mean, two years, $20.5 million with some incentives. I'm sort of surprised that he didn't.

[Julia Poe]

Get more than that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Me, too.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Because he's coming off a really good year.

[Julia Poe]

And I guess probably teams looked at that year as something of an outlier and BABIP inflated and thought, well, he's.

[Meg Rowley]

Probably more like the Harrison Bader he was before that, which is, you know, a nice platoon player, role player, defensive substitution, et cetera. And he's 31 and so. Sure, I, I guess I get why.

[Julia Poe]

You'Re not going to be, you know, paying him with the expectation that he's going to be a 3 to 4 win player again.

[Meg Rowley]

And if the Giants are expecting him to start every day then maybe he could be a bit stretched in that role because I think historically it's like good glove, you know, once you start getting into your 30s as a center fielder, can you remain an elite glove?

[Julia Poe]

I think think given their other options.

[Meg Rowley]

He is superior in the pasture for sure. And then you know, I think he.

[Julia Poe]

Probably, if you can hide him against some righties and, and have him split.

[Meg Rowley]

Time with someone, then that's kind of the ideal way to deploy Harrison Bader. And so maybe he took this because.

[Julia Poe]

The Giants offered a path to playing.

[Meg Rowley]

Time and good for him and, and.

[Julia Poe]

Probably an upgrade over what they had. And maybe he's kind of miscast as an everyday player year or who knows, maybe he was underestimated and last year.

[Meg Rowley]

He proved that he should get a.

[Julia Poe]

Little more playing time and now he's getting that opportunity.

[Meg Rowley]

But yeah, I was a little surprised.

[Julia Poe]

You know, I guess the fact that he got two years because he's been kind of a year to year guy. But even so it felt a little light given what guys are going for this winter.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I agree, I think particularly given the remaining center field options which were scant on the free agent market to begin with and quite scant now. But I agree, I think that he gives them a much better option defensively than Zhenghu Lee who looks stretched there. It's a big, it's a lot of room out there to patrol. So I think opting for the superior defender, even if his bat really only justifies the strong side of a platoon makes good sense. He did hit well over the course of the entire season, but he's a very aggressive hitter. He was rewarded for that to some degree last year with a career high in home runs. But you know, it's not like that park is going to play particularly well for that. So. But with all of that said, like I like, I like the signing for them. I think that it bolsters an area of need and we know how I feel about center field defense so I'm about it. I like it. And you know, Bader has just like this is harder to quantify. We do not yet incorporate this into war, but just seems like a really good vibes guy. You know we talked last year when he was traded to Philly. I mean I think the thing that they probably most appreciated about Bader was that they suddenly had a 129 WRC plus hitter in center field, which market upgrade over what they'd had previously, but that clubhouse, it seemed kind of like unsettled at times and he just seems like a good vibes guy. As Michael Bauman noted in his write up of the signing, I think that he and Vitala will get along along splendidly.

[Julia Poe]

So.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Is it a small move relative to some of the other moves that have been made in division? Yes, but you know, I think it's a, it's a pretty inexpensive way for them to improve their club in a, in a meaningful way and like $10 million for a capable center fielder, something, you know, even if he ends up playing kind of a part time role. So. I like it.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Hopefully it won't affect his access to low frequency electromagnetic fields now that he's moving on from Philly. Or, or maybe it will and maybe that'll benefit him even more. Who knows? Maybe that's why he had a.

[Ben Lindbergh]

A great.

[Meg Rowley]

Do you think he.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Last year he got there or he got there and he was like, what's going on around here?

[Meg Rowley]

What could be.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Are you guys up to.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You know, you know how like you, you don't have siblings. Um, so this might not be the best example for you personally, Ben, but it's like you, you have, you have experiences with your siblings and you, you sort of understand how the world works. And then, you know, many comedians have joked about this like you get around other people and you're like, oh, that wasn't normal. Okay, cool. Noted, noted, noted. Do you think the Phillies were like that and Bader got there and was like, hey guys, it's with the raw milk, you know, are we doing that?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. An outsider to be the Phillies clubhouse ombudsman or something or, or surgeon general or I don't know what. But yeah, but it, it is, you know, it fits in with the Giants off season, which is a bunch of sort of you know, making moves on the margins. I think a lot of teams could have used Harrison Bader, at least in a part time capacity, but you look.

[Julia Poe]

At the headliners of the Giants off season and it's not super exciting.

[Meg Rowley]

It's Harrison Bader, it's Adrian Hauser, it's Tyler Malley, it's, you know, tinkering, I.

[Julia Poe]

Guess it just doesn't seem like it's really going to move the needle from just the Stubborn.500 setting where it's been.

[Meg Rowley]

For that team for the past four years now. And yeah, and I know that there's been a lot of focus on them missing out on some major free agent targets and then getting Some of them, but, you know, not always the number one guy, but Tyler me.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But sure, yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

But I think Grant Brisby has made this point when he has joined us for Giant season previews and probably will again when he joins us again. But they just. They kind of need that core. They just. Yeah, they had a generation of prospects.

[Julia Poe]

That failed to launch. And so, yeah, it hurts if you miss out on Arson Judge or whatever, but like, it's. It's hard to construct a perennial winner when you aren't really developing from within.

[Meg Rowley]

And they've just had so many guys who have just fizzled and many of them have moved on and some of them are still around and maybe they'll make something of themselves, but they. They just have not really developed a.

[Julia Poe]

Lot of homegrown blue chippers. Just, you know, a core you can build around. And of course, from a team perspective, an inexpensive team controlled core that you.

[Meg Rowley]

Can build around that just.

[Julia Poe]

It hasn't happened for them lately and I don't know if it's happening now.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It will be interesting to see like, what is a full, hopefully drama free year of Devers look like. What version of Adamus are they getting? You know, what version of Chapman does Lee take a further step forward? Like, I think that there are spots on their roster where you can have some optimism that like the ceiling hasn't been fully realized or that they might produce better than they did last year. But yeah, it doesn't. You know, there's like a healthy dose of Drew Gilbert here. Is that gonna work out? You know, so I just, I. I think that there are places where they could still improve. They always have to contend with la, so that's kind of rough, you know.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. And then the main thing that I wanted to ask about is sort of inspired by the Jose Ramirez extension. The latest Jose Ramirez extension. What are we up to? 3 now, I think with the Guardians and also some comments that Andrew McCutcheon made about his non invitation to a Pirates fan event. Because I was kind of thinking about these things in the context of what do teams owe franchise legends and what do franchise legends owe teams and what.

[Julia Poe]

Kind of accommodations should each party make?

[Meg Rowley]

So the Jose Ramirez extension.

[Julia Poe]

I mean, that guy just loves being in Cleveland. He just loves being a Guardian. They love having him. The fans love him. Why wouldn't they? It's a mutual love fest. It's beautiful.

[Meg Rowley]

Like, I'm happy for him. I'm happy for them. Am. I'm happy for Guardians fans who just.

[Julia Poe]

Get to enjoy that guy from start to finish his whole career like this seems to have just been about ensuring that he is a guardian for life. Essentially though I have not yet received a push notification about whether he plans.

[Meg Rowley]

To retire when he's 40 in seven years or so. So, you know, get on that maybe.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But they're saving, they're saving that for super bowl weekend. Ben, come on. They gotta, they gotta strike when the iron is hottest.

[Meg Rowley]

Yes, but the terms of this latest pact, and it's an unusual one because.

[Julia Poe]

He didn't need to sign an extension yet. They didn't need to sign him to an extension yet. But obviously they just want to continue.

[Meg Rowley]

To be in business together and remain one big happy family. And so this will take him through his age 39 season in 2032. And so he had three years and.

[Julia Poe]

69 million remaining around already.

[Meg Rowley]

And this restructures those years and then also adds 106 million in new money which covers the 2029-32 season. There's also a lot of deferrals here.

[Julia Poe]

It's.

[Meg Rowley]

It's kind of complicated.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Julia Poe]

And maybe I'll just quote Davey Andrews because he dug into it for his posted fan graphs and laid it out pretty clearly.

[Meg Rowley]

But it's a little different from the.

[Julia Poe]

Past Ramirez extensions which were extremely team friendly.

[Meg Rowley]

And this one is a little bit, it's, it's not quite as much of.

[Julia Poe]

That just because of the unusual circumstances basically.

[Meg Rowley]

So, so he had this 69 million.

[Julia Poe]

Over three years common to him now.

[Meg Rowley]

Over the next seven seasons he's gonna.

[Julia Poe]

Get 25 million a year year with.

[Meg Rowley]

10 million per year deferred. And then each of Those deferrals lasts.

[Julia Poe]

10 years and then pays out a million a year for 10 years. So he's going to be getting million dollar annual payments until 2051.

[Meg Rowley]

So that's something to look forward to for him. And for Guardians fans, instead of Bonia.

[Julia Poe]

Day, you can have Jose Day and everyone can just celebrate Jose Ramirez. And that'll be fun.

[Meg Rowley]

And he also got some, some, some perks and incentives and an extra hotel room on road trips.

[Julia Poe]

Very swanky. And some private jet trips and some.

[Meg Rowley]

Bonuses for high finishes in the MVP voting. Wouldn't it be something if he finally won one instead of having the highest MVP vote share of any non winner ever. But it's basically like 25 million or 20.8 for, for present value purposes because of the deferrals.

[Julia Poe]

And then like it reduces the amount of money that the Guardians will have to pay him over the next three seasons from 69 million to 45 million.

[Meg Rowley]

So he's like kind of getting more.

[Julia Poe]

But eventually, but later and like in.

[Meg Rowley]

A different shape essentially. So seems like he wanted to sign this just to get additional safety and.

[Julia Poe]

Security and just commit to being in Cleveland for the rest of his career. And I'm sure the Guardians also wanted that, but maybe also wanted additional financial flexibility in the short term in the next few years while Ramirez is still a very productive player, that maybe it makes it easier for them and their penny pinching ownership to put a contender around him.

[Meg Rowley]

So that's the thing basically.

[Julia Poe]

But it's not such a like basically, you know, sweet Hart deal, hometown discount the way that the previous extensions were.

[Meg Rowley]

Because he is already 33 years old.

[Julia Poe]

And this extension doesn't kick in for a few years.

[Meg Rowley]

So it's like, you know, not only.

[Julia Poe]

Will they now be signing him to his late 30s seasons and there's just not a lot of precedent for people.

[Meg Rowley]

Remaining productive in recent decades at third.

[Julia Poe]

Base or, or anywhere he might move for that matter.

[Meg Rowley]

And there's also just the fact that.

[Julia Poe]

They'Re committing to him a few years before his contract would expire. So there's, you know, they're taking some risk that something happens to him. Of course, you know, anytime a, a team signs an extension long before that they're pricing in some risk that's. Well, something might befall that player, he might decline, he might get hurt. So whatever it is, he might, might get stuck in his immortal chamber or.

[Meg Rowley]

Something and be unable to get out. But you know, there's a kind of.

[Julia Poe]

A discount because of that, but it mostly amounts to Jose Ramirez just loves being in this city and playing for this team.

[Meg Rowley]

And there's something really nice about that. You know, you, you certainly appreciate it.

[Julia Poe]

As a fan when a, a guy.

[Meg Rowley]

Especially in a, a sports city that has had hard times. That's probably an understatement. And also a lot of your legendary athletes have gone elsewhere and Jose Ramirez.

[Julia Poe]

Has positioned himself to be the greatest player in, in Cleveland baseball history, you know, in Guardians franchise history, and will.

[Meg Rowley]

Have statues and monuments and people singing his praises for the rest of his life.

[Julia Poe]

Life.

[Meg Rowley]

And that's, that's worth something, you know, and, and yet there's a part of me that looks at his career as.

[Julia Poe]

A whole and you know, whether he's underpaid or not, in this particular portion.

[Meg Rowley]

Of his career as a whole, he.

[Julia Poe]

Has been dramatically just because he's been so good and did sign under market extensions.

[Meg Rowley]

And you know, I saw a quote from him, which was before he signed.

[Julia Poe]

This extension, or at least before it was announced.

[Meg Rowley]

This was. He was doing an interview a couple.

[Julia Poe]

Weeks ago in early January, I think, and he was talking about signing a previous extension. And he said, this is translated. We went through a year and a.

[Meg Rowley]

Half of negotiations, and when I finally.

[Julia Poe]

Signed, I got a significant salary bump.

[Meg Rowley]

I knew it wasn't fully reflective of my market value, and plenty of people made sure to point that out. But I'm a veteran. I understand how the game works. Cleveland is a small market team, and.

[Julia Poe]

They simply can't pay me what I could command on the open market.

[Meg Rowley]

So I told them, let's find a.

[Julia Poe]

Ferry agreement that works for both sides. I spoke directly with the gm.

[Meg Rowley]

There were real trade discussions and offers from other teams willing to extend me.

[Julia Poe]

At my full asking price.

[Meg Rowley]

But my heart was set on staying in Cleveland first and foremost. My children were born here. My wife feels comfortable in Cleveland and so do I. I owe this city a lot.

[Julia Poe]

Since the day I arrived, I've never once been booed by these fans. I've seen how crowds in other stadiums treat players when results don't come quickly, and that's never happened here. What kind of monster would boo Jose Ramirez anyway? In any city, you know, everyone has.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Slumps, of course, but I guess, yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

How can you begrudge him that? Okay.

[Julia Poe]

Like, he loves it, his family loves it, everyone loves him. He wants to stay there. He should get to stay there if he wants to.

[Meg Rowley]

I guess I can on the one hand be happy for him and think what a great guy. And it's, it's great for fans and everything. And yet also. Also be kind of frustrated that the Dolan's get their way like that, you know?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Because it's like, in a sense, he's.

[Julia Poe]

Playing right into their hands, you know, and, and he's getting hundreds of millions of dollars.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, he's doing, he's doing fine. And he seems to genuinely enjoy being there. So I think that he's doing well financially to like, get exactly what he wants, which is to stay in Cleveland.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

So I'm not really crying for Jose.

[Julia Poe]

Ramirez and his financial situation. He's.

[Meg Rowley]

He's set. But, but, but still, like he, his hand is forced or he feels like it's forced because the Dolan's, who have much more money than Jose Ramirez even.

[Julia Poe]

Has, you know, whatever money he is giving back, they are pocketing basically. Right. And they need it less than he does.

[Meg Rowley]

And so it's sort of just playing right into that Scheme of like, well, if we just constantly kind of cut corners and keep our payroll low. So then someone like Jose Ramirez who.

[Julia Poe]

Likes playing here feels like the only way he can possibly do that is to take a pay cut and therefore line our pockets further relative to his value.

[Meg Rowley]

Whereas someone else, you know, Francisco andor whoever it is, like someone who wants.

[Julia Poe]

To just get what they're worth, feels.

[Meg Rowley]

Like they can't do that in Cleveland.

[Julia Poe]

Or at least it's been shown that they can't.

[Meg Rowley]

And so in a way it's like Jose Ramirez's largess and love for the city, which I, I applaud also just.

[Julia Poe]

Like enables the Dolan to keep doing what they do. Basically. He's basically like funding, you know, their, their parsimonious way of operating that team.

[Meg Rowley]

Like it's only, it's possible for them to keep contending as they have, you know, and that's another thing.

[Julia Poe]

It's not like they've been perennial losers during his career.

[Meg Rowley]

The playoffs, most of the time they've been one of the World Series. Yeah, they made, they made the World Series.

[Julia Poe]

They've been one of the. I always kind of cringe at this.

[Meg Rowley]

Word, but winningest, winningest teams over the course of Ramirez's career, or at least you know, his peak and, and you.

[Julia Poe]

Know, he had a couple like slow start seasons like when he was, you know, in his early 20s, just kind of catching on. He was not great immediately, at least at the plate. And so that's probably what he's referring to that people didn't boo him at that time.

[Meg Rowley]

But you know, it's not as if he's, it's not like a Mike Trout situation either where he's signing up to.

[Julia Poe]

Stay with a team even though that team seems to be pretty poorly run and never gets him to the playoffs.

[Meg Rowley]

The Guardians have gotten to the playoffs not every year, but most years during Jose Ramirez's career.

[Julia Poe]

And he's had a lot to do.

[Meg Rowley]

With that obviously, but still. And you know, they have some developmental acumen and, and trade chops and, and all the rest of it. So it's a well run organization in some respects.

[Julia Poe]

Just part of me that like wants the Dolan's to, to have to pay market value just to like force them to spend some money.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, so that's the only conflicted feeling that I have about any of this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And I think that, you know, the, the idealized version of analytics, of, of Moneyball, once it moved from a team that was as cash draft as CAs were is the idea that, like, you would. You would find underpriced value, and then you could reinvest that money that you weren't spending on the underpriced value into the rest of the roster. Right. And so when you don't see the second piece of it, it can feel like there's a bait and switch going on. I mean, I'll say this, and I don't mean to defend their owners by any stretch. I do think that once you've passed a certain threshold of, well, like, Jose Ramirez is doing fine. He has not been paid his market value over the course of his career. But I do think that, like, part of players getting to have power and agency in their own careers is saying, like, I have enough. I've made what I need to. To care for my family, probably for many generations, and this is where I want to be, and so I'm going to be here year. You know, I think one way that you could, like, face God in. In this moment is to think if they weren't giving this money to Jose Ramirez, they probably wouldn't be giving that amount of money to anybody.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So he. He is extracting probably more from them than really any other player would be able to, because the. The sort of value proposition is just so obvious, and he has been so good for them. And, you know, we talked about the value of sort of jersey guys to be distinguished from jersey boys and jersey men, but jersey guys, you know, and they could be from anywhere, and Ramirez gives your franchise one of those. And I think that for teams like the Guardians, who are so transactional, who, you know, are one of these clubs that sort of fits in this bucket of we're. We're talented and smart and we develop well and we have acumen, and we are good at extracting marginal value, and we are forced to play on hard mode to a certain extent because of the financial constraints that our ownership group puts on us. They're one of those teams, and I think, particularly for those clubs, it is good to have a jersey guy because it can feel so transactional. The experience of the team can be so. So ephemeral otherwise. And it's not, you know, they're not engaged in roster churn. I think their reputation rather for roster churn is a little different than, like, it is with, like, the raisin relievers, for instance. Or, you know, we. We spent a good amount of time talking about the brewers and their construction proclivities, but, you know, they engage in a lot of churn. And when guys get Expensive, they tend to get shipped out. And so having someone like him who is so good and also, you know, kind of a grounding force in your clubhouse, you know, so I'm not trying to praise the way that they do business because I think that, you know, as I have said in the case of the Rays and the brewers, you know, these are good organizations and think about what their staffs could do with even just a little bit more wiggle room on the financial side. But I, I think it's, you know, if I were a Guardians fan, I would be thrilled about this. He's a good player. I think, you know, like a lot of extensions that encounter, that end up brushing up against the, the back half of a guy's 30s, you know, is he going to be this version of Jose Ramirez by the time the deal is done? I mean, almost certainly not, but I do think that he has a skill set and a game that will age pretty well. Well, and he's so reliable. Like, he's just, you know, he's always on the field. So I get the ways in which it's a weird deal and in some ways out of character for them and in other ways, like so in line with their character. But on the whole, I think, like, I'm just in favor of the, the people of Cleveland getting a good player and seemingly a good guy to root for. And I do think that, um, and this is a, this was a non enforceable preference. I mean, all of my preferences are non enforceable. The Guardians don't have to listen to me. I do like it when teams, and I don't think they would necessarily articulate their, their justification or rationale for extending Ramirez in these terms at all, and probably didn't even internally. But maybe the, the presence of the Jersey guy is like, particularly important when, when part of your, like men's pro sports fates are tied up in the Browns. Like, I'm sorry, Guardians and Cavaliers, you just, you do. And I think they have. Do they have a pro soccer team Cleveland? I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying to be rude. I just genuinely don't know the bounds of MLS these days. But you know, it's like, sorry, guys, you're going to have different expectations heaped on you than a lot of other cities that have, have the, the kind of sports culture you do because you're getting weighed down by these goobers down the way. I just like, sorry, not trying to disrespect Shador, but especially Miles leaves.

[Julia Poe]

God, he's a pro Bowler now. So. And I know that because I know about football.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I love sport, general sport. Ben. So nice.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Can we talk, can we talk about football in the Patreon pod? I'm, I want you to know and impress part of this is because like we, we led with something that's genuinely important and very serious. I have been so restrained about the Seahawks on this episode, and I'd like to, I'd like to be unencumbered if that, if that's okay. But I, I appreciate the ways in which me fanning out about anything is not fun for some. And I know, I know we pressed the boundary a bit with the postseason and so I, I'm aware. You know, I, I want to be respectful of our listeners preferences, but I had a fun Sunday, I'm sure.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Got another hopefully fun Sunday in store. Probably even, I would say not to jinx anything. So Ramirez, if you, if you look.

[Julia Poe]

At his Fangrass page in the value section, of course there's the, the dollars calculation, which is just the going rate.

[Meg Rowley]

For wins on the free agent market.

[Julia Poe]

It's just that times the war that.

[Meg Rowley]

Player produced, it's a simple sort of thing thing.

[Julia Poe]

And he's at $461 of value produced over the course of his career in his 58 war or so. That's just a shorthand and it's an estimate. And of course, he was not a.

[Meg Rowley]

Free agent all of those years and wouldn't have been even if he had signed no extensions.

[Julia Poe]

So it's, it's, you know, very much just kind of a, you know, rough, rough thing.

[Meg Rowley]

And, you know, at the end of.

[Julia Poe]

This contract, I mean, he's already made about $100 million. And then, you know, know, he'll, he'll be over 200, I guess, by the.

[Meg Rowley]

Time this contract is done, obviously, like.

[Julia Poe]

The surplus value there will probably be in the hundreds of millions, maybe.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

And he has decided to make that decision and he's happy with it. He's like he's going into it with his eyes open is the other thing. You know, if it were, if he were swindled, if he were bamboozled, if.

[Julia Poe]

He had gotten bad advice, if he was unaware of what his market value.

[Meg Rowley]

Was, that might be one thing. But no, he's well aware of what he's doing and he's voluntarily doing it. And to him it's worth it and understandably so. And maybe there's some obligation to maximize your earnings for the betterment of your baseball brethren in the union if you take an under market deal, does that increase pressure on another superstar to take up a low market deal you want.

[Julia Poe]

To look at for the interests of.

[Meg Rowley]

Other players while also looking out for your own? These can be complicated considerations. He's just, he's such a perfect player. He's just like, he's great. You know, he's not the best because he has had the misfortune of overlapping with Aaron Judge and S.H. otani, but just metronomic production year in and year out. He's just pencil him in for that.

[Julia Poe]

Six win season or so.

[Meg Rowley]

And yeah, you're right, he probably won't be producing like peak Jose Ramirez when he's in his late 30s, but he's still producing like peak Jose Ramirez in age 33, age 30, like he hasn't slipped one bit, really. You know, he's just so good from both sides of the plate. He's the power, the speed, the patience. Like, you know, walks almost as much as he strikes out. Good glove like good clubhouse guy, amazing at Mario Kart just like every everything. He's just so aesthetically pleasing and just.

[Julia Poe]

No holes in his game whatsoever. So dependable, so durable.

[Meg Rowley]

You know, any of this is subject.

[Julia Poe]

To change and will change at some point in any player's career, but what a thrill, what a joy and privilege it has been to watch him even from afar, let alone if you're a Guardians fan.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh yeah. And you know, this isn't, you know, you talk about him sort of going in with eyes open. This isn't like, you know, I, I feel bad that part of Ozzy Albie's legacy as a player will be that his is the contract. We just always point to when we talk about a guy who's like, agent should have been run out of town for getting him to sign that deal. But you know, it's not like it's such a dramatic underpay that you're like, oh, something, you know, nefarious went on here. And I think it, you know, it's perhaps a useful reminder that for as much as players are certainly aware of the posture of ownership and in a place like Cleveland, probably more even than average, I do wonder if guys think about these things more in terms of long term competitive potential. And to your point, the Guardians have held up their end in that respect during his tenure, which doesn't mean that them not winning the World Series wasn't disappointing for them and that we don't get around to October every year and be like, God, it would be nice if they had Another bat or two. But, you know, he's playing October baseball with really consistent regularity. And so I. I just think that he seems like he knows what he wants and he's getting it, and that's good.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, it's a lovely thing when a player can spend his whole career in one city with one team and be.

[Julia Poe]

Beloved and loving of the team and the city and all the rest of it.

[Meg Rowley]

And, you know, I don't think players owe a discount to their team or to the fans. I don't think they owe anyone anything. But when everyone is kind of on the same page and it works out that way, it's a special situation, and that's why I was tying this into McCutchen. So McCutchen is 39.

[Julia Poe]

He is essentially at the point in his career that Jose Ramirez will be.

[Meg Rowley]

When this extension runs its course.

[Julia Poe]

And.

[Meg Rowley]

And he is commensurately diminished as a player, but also means about as much.

[Julia Poe]

To that franchise and that fan base.

[Meg Rowley]

As Ramirez does to his city and organization. And so this past weekend, there was.

[Julia Poe]

A Pirates Fest event, you know, fan convention, and Andrew McCutcheon wasn't there, wasn't invited, and Ben Charrington was asked about him. I think a fan asked, asked, Where's Andrew McCutcheon?

[Meg Rowley]

And he had a long response. But the upshot was, you know, Andrews meant a ton to the franchise.

[Julia Poe]

Our approach this off season has been.

[Meg Rowley]

Laser focused on what gives us the.

[Julia Poe]

Best chance to win more baseball games than we have in past seasons. And there were other things. You know, he also paid other compliments to McCutcheon and what he has meant to the team and the fan base. And he's had an incredible run, and.

[Meg Rowley]

His legacy as a Pirate is secure, and we want to maintain a really good relationship with Andrew well into the future. But he is drawing a distinction between.

[Julia Poe]

That and his role on the current roster, because Charrington is saying, the job.

[Meg Rowley]

Is to build a team that gives us the best chance to be winning games, et cetera, et cetera.

[Julia Poe]

And that's what we're trying to do. So much respect to Andrew. The relationship is important, blah, blah. So he was essentially saying, thanks, but, you know, it's. It's over. Like, it seems to be that they're not interested in bringing him back, that.

[Meg Rowley]

They'Re grateful for everything he's done, but.

[Julia Poe]

That at some point, they feel like they have to move on in order to prioritize winning.

[Meg Rowley]

And Andrew McCutchen, quote, tweeted a portion of this tweet by Charrington and said, I Wonder did the Cards do this with Wainwright, Pujols, Yachty? The Dodgers to Kershaw, the Tigers to Miggy. The list goes on and on. If this is my last year, it would have been nice to meet the fans one last time as a player. Player. Talk to them about my appreciation for them over the years. Shake that little kid's hand or hug the fan that's been a fan since Clemente. You see, this is bigger than baseball. Bigger than looking at a 40 man.

[Julia Poe]

Roster and cherry picking numbers that fit your agenda or prove why your opinion matters.

[Meg Rowley]

The fans deserved at the very least to get that opportunity. I don't know what the future holds for me at the present moment, but what I do know is though I am 39 on the back end of my career, I still work every day.

[Julia Poe]

To be better than I was the year before.

[Meg Rowley]

If there wasn't a burning desire to continue this journey, I would be home surrounded by my family in which no one would judge or be surprised.

[Julia Poe]

But not yet.

[Meg Rowley]

There's more work to do and I'm not done.

[Julia Poe]

No matter what label you try to stamp on me, rip the jersey off of me, you don't get to write my future, God does.

[Meg Rowley]

So clearly some feathers ruffled.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah, not being invited to Fan Fest. And Charrington in so many words saying that there's probably not a place on.

[Meg Rowley]

The Pirates roster for Andrew McCutcheon any anymore. And this, this always tends to be an awkward situation too. You know, you get to the end of the road with a player who's meant a lot to a team but.

[Julia Poe]

Is not the player he was.

[Meg Rowley]

And that's happened with some of the players that McCutcheon listed. Like, you know, the Tigers didn't do this to Miggy, but that's because Miggy signed an enormous extension of his own and had a huge contract coming to him, you know, and, and so yeah, like they were sort of stuck with.

[Julia Poe]

Him and kept him around to the end and had some milestone moments and.

[Meg Rowley]

Everything, but it wasn't exactly analogous and you know, maybe, maybe Pujols and Yachty.

[Julia Poe]

Pujols obviously was great unexpectedly in his return to St. Louis, but you know, late, late career. Yachty I guess maybe could be kind of comparable. Even though such defensive of catching powers were ascribed to him even at that late date.

[Meg Rowley]

So I see what he's saying, but it's like what, what is he owed.

[Julia Poe]

Essentially due to his past contributions to the team and the franchise and the city. And it's very much a business. And what have you done for me lately and not even what have you done for me lately, but what will.

[Meg Rowley]

You do for me? And Andrew McCutchen? Absolute delight and credit to the game and the organization and everything, but also a replacement level player this past season.

[Julia Poe]

And so that's the kind of player who tends to get replaced. So I don't know what the Pirates owe him. I sort of see both perspectives in a sense, but it's hard when you have a long relationship like that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's tricky and I'm trying to remove some of the Pirates of it all. Well, yeah, well I say that because I think it would be a difficult situation to navigate. Sort of regardless of the financial piece of it. We have this view of them as being so tight fisted and at times there have been some PR issues this and that, but I don't know if they're always bumbling. And so I think it's just a really hard thing because if everyone could have an honest conversation, you know, and maybe they did. I don't know what the behind the scenes were between them and Kutch last year, but you know, I would have been like, so hey, is this the last ride? Because if it is, you were so important to this franchise and you're so important to this fan base and we would like to honor the contributions you have made. But you have to be willing to say, yeah, I'm going to be dumb after this. And I think it's, you know, on the other side of it, very difficult for guys to get to that place. You know, I always think about the David Ortiz's final season where we knew it was going to be his last ride. You know, he went all around the country getting cowboy boots and chair, you know, like stadium seats and all kinds of. I always wondered like how much of that stuff that he ended up keeping, you know. And like what did he. And he had a 163 WRC plus and was a 4 1/2 win player. Most guys don't get to go out like that. You know, most guys, even if they get to, to have sort of the pre planned retirement tour and they get to have these moments, it does tend to feel more like Miggy where you know, you get to a point where you're like this is kind of a slog man. Like you were such a, a great player.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And so fearsome as a hitter. But like that's just not the guy who's coming to the ballpark every day anymore. And that's not anyone's fault but age, you know, that's not, that's just, that's just the way this goes eventually. And so I don't know if you know, if the Pirates got caught flat footed by like, you know, sort of the state of McCutchen's game or if Kutch did. You know, I also think that, and this is the part where I will maybe cross criticize the, the feel piece of it on Pittsburgh. Like he's a, he's a franchise icon. He's a, he's a franchise legend. He can just come to Fan Fest, right?

[Meg Rowley]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Does he have to be on the roster to be able to come to Fan Fest? Like, surely you would need to have a conversation with him in advance to be like, hey, like we are still figuring out our roster and we love you so much, but we just, we don't know if, if you're going to, to, if we're going to be able to, to find room for you as we're trying to, you know, launch into a new, you know, they'd say all the things that you're supposed to say as we try to launch into a new era of competitive Pirates baseball. And he'd have to be okay with that and you'd have to have a plan for like the inevitable question of are you retiring? And if you're not, are you resigning with the Pirates? But surely that could have gotten worked out. So like that part of it does feel little. Like, come on.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, like cuz his statement started that.

[Julia Poe]

Way where he was, if this is my last year, it would have been nice to meet the fans one last.

[Meg Rowley]

Time as a player. So, so yeah, if that's all it.

[Julia Poe]

Was, if, if he just felt snubbed and slighted that he wasn't extended the courtesy of an invitation to this event, then absolutely they, they should have done that.

[Meg Rowley]

Although then the second half of the statement is more about still thinking he can play and wanting to play.

[Julia Poe]

And so I don't know, would he take that the wrong way? If they invite him to the Fan.

[Meg Rowley]

Fest without extending an invitation to play, then is that a slight or does that send the wrong message about their intention to bring him back? So yeah, you'd have to handle that diplomatically, but it, it seems like they.

[Julia Poe]

Didn'T handle whatever they did do very diplomatically.

[Meg Rowley]

So yes, and, and sure, yeah, if.

[Julia Poe]

It'S just about the meet and greet, then by all means you would want him to be in that role whether he's a player or not.

[Meg Rowley]

But as for the playing part of it, and I never begrudge a player Their desire to keep playing.

[Julia Poe]

And if they're still enjoying it and.

[Meg Rowley]

They still want to be out there, then they absolutely should, as long as they can.

[Julia Poe]

And I don't really believe in legacy tarnishing so much. I think people remember the good times.

[Meg Rowley]

Unless, you know, it's a super extreme, like, Pujolsian kind of decline where it lingers for so long that just a whole generation of people never even saw the guy when he was good. And they just remember the debate diminished, Pujols or Mickey for that matter. But those were unusual circumstances because of the length of their contracts and the.

[Julia Poe]

Steepness of their decline and everything.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But it really was the best part of that last year for pools where we could all just be like, see, we weren't crazy. This, he was like, this isn't even the best version of him, but, like, he was a dude.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah. Somehow, some way, he was good again.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Like, this was. This is just a glimpse of what we got in the early days, man.

[Meg Rowley]

Yep. And. And McCutcheon, in this last hurrah with Pittsburgh, he's had three years, so they've had time to kind of write something on the wall.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I just don't get why this is. This just feels like such a unforced, strange communication breakdown that this is a problem. Like, how is this a problem, you know?

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, and. Yeah, and, you know, he's been in. In a more diminished role. And when he first came back, he.

[Julia Poe]

Was still an above average bat. The last couple years, he's been closer to replacement level.

[Meg Rowley]

And if you're the Pirates and you're not winning, then it is a roster spot at such a premium that you can't just bring back Andrew McCutcheon for 5 million a year, which is what he's been making just for the good vibes and the warm memories and being an ambassador and a mentor to young players and all of that. That now you do get to a.

[Julia Poe]

Point where if you have competitive ambitions, then maybe you can't carry that kind of player just for the memories and the legacy and everything. Because you really need to devote that roster spot to someone else who's going to help you win games.

[Meg Rowley]

Are the Pirates at that point. I'd like them to be. I think they could be, maybe should be, but it would be easier to give them a pass on this, I guess, if they had kind of backed.

[Julia Poe]

Up the big words about how much.

[Meg Rowley]

Spending they would do by spending more.

[Julia Poe]

I know they got some guys, but, you know, they didn't exactly blow everyone out of the water. This winter, so gotta go get Ao, honey.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Oh, man.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, he's still out there.

[Julia Poe]

So they have an opportunity to do that. If they sign Suarez and say, well, this is why we couldn't bring McCutcheon back. Well, maybe I'd be more understanding about.

[Meg Rowley]

It, but, yeah, it is kind of a mutual negotiation.

[Julia Poe]

Like, you do have to have some self awareness as a player and say, you know, what I have done entitles.

[Meg Rowley]

Me maybe to some sort of status.

[Julia Poe]

And role with this organization, but not.

[Meg Rowley]

Necessarily in uniform or on the field the way that it was, because that time ends for everyone, no matter how.

[Julia Poe]

Good you were and how long. So there is such a thing as kind of, you know, trying to cling to that too long or. Or feeling too entitled to it. I don't know if McCutcheon is. But that it happens.

[Meg Rowley]

It's an awkward, awkward.

[Julia Poe]

It's all to navigate at the end of so many careers because people want to keep playing and they're not the same guy, and you don't want to disrespect them. But you also can't kind of keep.

[Meg Rowley]

Guaranteeing a roster spot in perpetuity because it's a competitive sport. So it's tough.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. I mean, there's an argument to be made that, you know, I do think that particularly when you're in, like, a fallow period as a franchise franchise, it's easy to extend to icons some amount of deference, because seeing those guys on the roster does bring your. Your fans a meaningful measure of joy, I think. I feel like I'm defending two cheapo franchises back to back here. I think three years is, like, maybe an appropriate level of deference. Yeah. Now, to your point, you got to turn around and then do something with that spot. You can't just be like, and then we signed.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I'm just gonna say Tommy fam, you know, like, you need to do something with that. I think that a mark of a franchise that is in transition but headed in the right direction is one that is giving opportunity on the roster to younger players that is maybe using their churn to go through guys who have washed out other places, but maybe could, with an opportunity and some Runway, be a complimentary role player or the short side of a platoon or what have you. So you need to put that roster spot to work. And it does feel like this is maybe just the results of poor communication on one or both ends, but these things pass. I mean, that's what special assistant roles are for. Right? Like, what are we doing here? Just make the guy, part of the front office. I say that like, you know, they may well have approached him with that or maybe he doesn't want to do that, or maybe, you know, he thinks he's going to catch on some more. I don't know. But it's an odd, it's sort of a sour note if it's part of the end. You know, I hope that they're able to, to reach something else for, for, for the fan sake and for catch's sake, too. He, he deserves that at the very least, to have, you know, his tenure in the big leagues, if this is the end of the road, end on, on a triumphant note because he's had a triumphant career and he's had a career that's been really meaningful to a lot of people. So.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, and sometimes it's a fleeting feather ruffling, it's a fleeting affront. And then, you know, there's a little bit of bitterness, some hurt feelings, but.

[Julia Poe]

Then it passes and there's a reunion and everyone remembers the good times eventually. And I'm sure that's what will happen at some point. Hopefully.

[Meg Rowley]

And hopefully this won't be a preview of the end of Jose Ramirez's stint.

[Julia Poe]

In Cleveland because his tenure will last.

[Meg Rowley]

Forever and he'll just be a six win player at age 39 and he'll have to sign a fourth extension at.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That point or he'll just like immediately go into a front office role and.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, or, yeah, he'll just ride off on his, his Mario Kart into the sunset or something.

[Julia Poe]

So there you go.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, well, we've established that I am a football knower and a sports knower, but our Jeopardy.

[Julia Poe]

Contestant, distance football knowers and sports knowers. And most importantly for the purposes of this podcast, baseball knowers. We are about to find out after the Stat Blast song.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then they'll tease out some interesting.

[Meg Rowley]

Take a, discuss it at length and.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Analyze it for, for us in amazing ways. Here's Today Blast.

[Meg Rowley]

All right.

[Julia Poe]

We are joined now by Zach Golin, who is the author of a defector.

[Meg Rowley]

Piece that was published last week entitled are Jeopardy. Contestants really that Bad at Questions about Sports? Sports? And Zach answered that question in the piece, but it inspired another question in.

[Julia Poe]

Me which was does Jeopardy. Rely more heavily on baseball questions than.

[Meg Rowley]

Questions about other sports?

[Julia Poe]

Is baseball overrepresented when it comes to sports on Jeopardy? Zach, welcome to Effectively Wild.

[Zach Golin]

Thank you. Good to be here.

[Meg Rowley]

Now, I know you are a data.

[Julia Poe]

Science person and also a sports fan.

[Meg Rowley]

So did it sort of touch a nerve the Perception that one can't be both. That the widespread that Jeopardy. Contestants are inept when it comes to sports because they're all nerds and they're not jocks, and thus there's this great societal divide and people can't possibly be.

[Julia Poe]

Interested in both of these subjects.

[Zach Golin]

Well, it was definitely like a worry because I built all of this because I was in the contestant pool kind of throughout 2021, wound up going on in early 2022, and was worried that, like, okay, the stuff that I'm actually good at, which is like, like the sports, the pop music, tv, that sort of thing. Like, do they even ask about that? And so I did this whole analysis of like, what's the sort of cost benefit analysis? What's the, like, you know, what's worth knowing for Jeopardy.

[Meg Rowley]

Purposes.

[Zach Golin]

And like, while it is sort of a lot of literature, history, geography, they do ask about sort of pop culture more than they ask about sort of like the high culture, arts, classical music music stuff. But the big difference was, and I mentioned this in the article, that like, they really shunt the mass culture stuff for the most part into like the first round, which is just worth a lot less money. So even though it comes out more, it's just usually not as. It's still not really worth it to learn by Jeopardy. Standards.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Julia Poe]

And you linked at the top of that piece to a viral video by Jeopardy. Standards.

[Meg Rowley]

Football 200, your choice. Do or don't name this play in.

[Zach Golin]

Which the quarterback runs the ball and can choose to pitch it to another back.

[Meg Rowley]

It's an option play. Ryan football 400. I can tell you guys are big football fans.

[Zach Golin]

I, I mentioned this as well. There are a lot of examples of this and I think that's where the stereotype comes from, is it's just not a big deal if they don't know the capital of Mozambique. But when three ostensibly very smart people who are pulling all sorts of very, very obscure operas and art and world leaders just off the top in two seconds flat, and then none of them recognize Bo Jackson, it's gonna make some headway. It's gonna circulate a lot. It's gonna be just a much more interesting thing to watch.

[Meg Rowley]

So you answered the initial question in.

[Julia Poe]

The piece, which we will link to, and I encourage people to read, but.

[Meg Rowley]

Would you care to summ conclusions about whether this stereotype is true, whether Jeopardy.

[Julia Poe]

Contestants are actually not ball knowers?

[Zach Golin]

Yeah. So what I found was, and this is, I. I have to shout out my friend Colin Davey, who provided me with the actual, like, sort of. He has a lot of his own sort of Jeopardy projects and trivia projects and was able to provide me with the data about, like, what questions were answered correctly and incorrectly. And I just joined that to all the labels and stuff that I did. But what I found was that it lines up with what you'd kind of expect of the general population, that the more popular things are better known and the less popular things are worse known. And the sports was, by pure percent of questions answered correctly, the third best subject in the data that I created up with mixed Pop culture. Food was probably the strongest topic. A little bit of that is correlated with the fact that. That there are. Like I said, they don't really throw hardballs about sports too often, but I do break it out by, like, the dollar value that they assign, and that is fairly consistent. These are not massive differences. It's like in the 80, 83, 85% correct for some of the easier questions versus, like, high 70s for some of the art and classical music and stuff like that. But it is still pretty persistent where, like, there's certainly nothing to be nothing that says, like, oh, like, that's their one weakness. That's the Achilles heel that, like, you show them a picture of Stam Musial and they'll. They'll just stare quietly for like 30 seconds or whatever.

[Meg Rowley]

Just flop sweat. Yeah, just the deafening silence.

[Julia Poe]

Not even crickets, just absolute silence. And then the sound when nobody buzzes in.

[Zach Golin]

Somebody did ask me a good question on Blue sky, which is like, are the sports questions easier to account for that? And that's just kind of.

[Julia Poe]

I wondered about that. It's kind of harder to find.

[Zach Golin]

Yeah, it's tough because they are definitely disincentivized to have 30 minutes of silence. As much as they want the questions to be challenging, the hope is that three relatively intelligent, relatively prepared trivia nerds are going to know who this is. But from my experience, this is where I have to default to my own abilities, my own experience. It doesn't seem like they're especially easier, especially softened. I think it has a lot to do with. With like, Jeopardy. Is a very. The. The material is meant. Is like the thing they say is it's a mile wide, an inch deep. Like, if you have depth of knowledge on baseball or football or whatever, like, those questions are going to be hilariously easy because, you know, it's meant to be sort of general knowledge. And this gets into like, what you asked me is like, well, what's general knowledge about baseball? What is the sort of thing where even if you don't know, if you don't follow the sport, you but, like, need to kind of brush up on the big points. What are you going to know?

[Meg Rowley]

All kinds of sports.

[Ben Lindbergh]

600.

[Meg Rowley]

Referring to his physique. It's the nickname of Cal Rawley, the new record holder for home runs in a season by a catcher.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Melanie, what's Big Dumper?

[Meg Rowley]

He has a big dumper.

[Julia Poe]

I saw that Big Dumper was an answer just this, this month, in fact, on Jeopardy.

[Meg Rowley]

Which I guess is a good example. Right. Because if you know anything about baseball.

[Julia Poe]

You'Ve been hearing about Big Dumper so incessantly that, you know, you could answer that one in your sleep. And.

[Meg Rowley]

And this can. Contestant nailed it.

[Julia Poe]

Got the answer.

[Meg Rowley]

But, you know, to even ask that.

[Julia Poe]

Question In January of 2026, it's like old news. But, you know, not for the general population necessarily.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I was gonna say, I wonder how much of that is. Is Ken Jennings at work? Right. It does help when you have a Seattle sports fan as the Jeopardy.

[Meg Rowley]

Host. Yeah.

[Zach Golin]

There was actually just a Seattle sports reporter on too, who I think missed that game, but was like, ended the. Ended the. Ended his run with Bring back the Sonics on the final Jeopardy. The final Jeopardy. Screen. I actually did. I wanted to make an example of who hasn't been asked about on Jeopardy. Yet. Like, I do this whole thing about, man, they've asked about Samuel Peeps like a million times. And I wound up going with Christian Pulisic. But like, I had Cal Rawley in there as a maybe until that happened. And still I looked for other ones. And Tara Skubel's never been asked about. Francisco Lindora's never been asked about. I don't think Juan Soto has because of the Giant contract if you can't tell him a Metz found. But it's still this question of, like, you need to be fairly well known or it's gotta be like a double Jeopardy baseball category for some of these deeper cuts, which just doesn't happen that much.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

So I wondered whether baseball would be.

[Julia Poe]

Overrepresented in the sports and games category or among the sports specifically, because it.

[Meg Rowley]

Seems to me that there is a common theme of baseball being overrepresented in pop culture, even if it's less omnipresent than it once was. The.

[Julia Poe]

The notion of the national pastime has lingered long after it was actual fact. Right. Long after baseball got bodied by football. You still constantly see baseball in movies and TV shows. You don't get baseball in movies. Quite the way that you used to, except by the effectively wild definition where everything is a baseball movie.

[Meg Rowley]

But you do still see baseball scenes, baseball references, all the time in a way that I think sort of over indexes on the actual popularity of baseball just because of all the associations with the sport and the American and mythos.

[Julia Poe]

And all the rest of it.

[Meg Rowley]

And so in pop culture and in certain types of pop culture too, I think this is true. And people may remember more than a year ago, on episode 2243 and also.

[Julia Poe]

On Hang up and Listen, I shared some reporting and research about how baseball has been dramatically, drastically overrepresented among sports in New York Times crossword puzzles. It just, it dwarfs other sports really in a way that's sort of out of step with how prominent and popular it is.

[Meg Rowley]

And so I wondered, you know, Jeopardy. Crossword puzzles, different types of trivia, like, I don't know, maybe there would be some overlap here.

[Julia Poe]

And so I suspected that maybe baseball would be overrepresented in Jeopardy also.

[Meg Rowley]

And so I emailed you to ask.

[Julia Poe]

About that, which I know was not.

[Meg Rowley]

Part of your data set, but while you were snowed in this past weekend.

[Julia Poe]

You did some digging.

[Zach Golin]

Yeah, and it was. I mean, I had already label all these sports clues. And so it's just kind of repeating the process that I used of like, well, trying to identify sort of big groups of categories that use similar language to get into sort of the. I don't know how nerdy your audience is. I assume fairly nerdy. But don't hold back, like doing that sort of thing, doing some manual labeling of just like, okay, questions about the Yankees are probably baseball. Questions about Michael Phelps. I'm going to call the Olympics and go on from there. And so I was able to. It wasn't too big a lift to try to sort it out further. It's just that already just kind of has a caveat. Already sports questions are only about 2 or 3% of all the questions, which is still a lot. This data goes back to the mid-80s. So it's thousands and thousands of questions. I think it's like 20,000 questions I had to work with here. But we do get into fractions of fractions very quickly. But I can go through if you like, please. So I did listen to your crossword puzzle analysis. I will tell you, baseball is probably pretty consistently really the most represented sport. It's not nearly that bad. It's not nearly the sort of 60, 70% that you saw in terms of crossword puzzles. It's closer to like 20, 25%. One in four, one out of five sports questions are about baseball, as far as I could tell. At least the ones I was able to pretty confidently label. And so that's actually been pretty consistent throughout the history of the show. I did notice in the article when I was writing that that they've kind of settled into a pretty reliable pattern of this category about this, this category about this. Starting in the 2000s, it's been pretty steady, but kind of going back to its earliest history. When we talk about The Trebek era, mid-80s and forward, baseball's been a close first, but sort of first number two is football. Not that far behind. The most interesting thing for me when I looked into this was that third was. And sometimes second, sometimes fourth, but overall third was not basketball. It was the Olympics. I have a kind of a pet theory about that. Not just that maybe the most famous Olympians. Is it the 15th most famous Olympian more famous than the 15th most famous basketball player? I don't know. But like, the thing to remember with Jeopardy. In the way that like crossword puzzles have to incentivize words with a lot of vowels is like Jeopardy. Questions are very quick. Like, you don't have a lot of time to think about them. You don't have a lot of. There's not a lot of words that they can use in the clue to get their point across and narrow it down to one person or one event or whatever. So I think in the way that, like, there's a lot of reliance on. On in Jeopardy. Circles on these things called pavlovsky, which are two word phrases that get you to someone very quickly. The example I like is if they say Welsh poet, it's always Dylan Thomas. There's really just not another notable Welsh poet. In the same way, I think with the Olympics, it's very friendly to the question writing style of you can do a nationality in a sport or just the sport, and that will narrow it down very quickly. Where honestly, if they say gymnast, unless they give you reason otherwise, it's probably Simone Biles if they. If you swimmer, it's either Michael Phelps or Katie Ledecky in a lot of cases. And then you could throw in a nationality as well, and that'll help. And then you could also just ask about describing a weird sport. And that's a very sort of Jeopardy. Question, as is like mentioning the Olympics and then mentioning something about the city that isn't sports related. So there's a lot of avenues. And then basketball, which, as you can imagine, Rose in popularity kind of over the history of the show into like a pretty consistent and fourth and then just kind of everything else. And when we talk about the fraction of the fraction thing, it's like you're going to get a category about tennis or hockey or combat sports or golf, but already we're down to a rate of a category a year, a couple 10 to 20 questions a year at that point because there's just such a breadth there. And that's kind of one of the points I make in the article that it's pretty hard to study. There's a lot there to study and. And it's like just not that likely on a day to day basis to come up.

[Meg Rowley]

Okay, so baseball is indeed number one. Not a distant first, but first. And this is as you said, you know, the period during which the NFL.

[Julia Poe]

Was ascendant and already supremely popular.

[Meg Rowley]

So I guess it makes some sense.

[Julia Poe]

Just because of the history of baseball, how far back it goes and just how interwoven it was with the cultural.

[Meg Rowley]

Fabric of the country and all the stats and the statistical milestones and maybe.

[Julia Poe]

The age and demographics of the Jeopardy.

[Meg Rowley]

Audience of vis a vis baseball. Oh, for sure.

[Zach Golin]

It's almost like, I mean, I'm lucky enough to know a lot of Jeopardy. Contestants and you know, sort of compare stories about the audition process. And from What I understand, 30 parks in 30 days is a very common what would you do with the money?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Answer.

[Zach Golin]

Because you're not supposed to, I mean you're not supposed to say taxes and, and, and colle and student loans or whatever. Although that's where a lot of it goes.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah, something fun.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I always worry that if I were on Jeopardy. I would get sports questions and then completely freeze. Right. That I would get something wildly easy, totally within our purview on the pod in my role at fangraphs and just not be able to deliver. And then it would haunt me for the rest of my life. I'm fine forgetting like the capital of Mozambique. I can with that, I think.

[Zach Golin]

And that's something that is something where unfortunately I have friends who study like, you know, you study what you know, just in case that happens. It's hard to know what'll happen to get up there. I definitely like refreshed on this sort of stuff just in case. Even though like on the couch, I'm going to get it a hundred percent of the time. Because until you get up there for the weirdest experience of your life where you're watching Jeopardy. From inside the television, you don't exactly Know how your brain's going to react.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Julia Poe]

Speaking of which, how did your brain react when you were in that situation?

[Meg Rowley]

Because you were, you were on the show.

[Zach Golin]

Yeah. All right. I was so weirdly, weirdly fine in terms of like, I think after the, you know, the advice I give to people is like, it's almost like a calming thing where you're actually up there because you cannot study anymore. There's nothing else you can do except to play the game and just kind of, you know, I'd done a lot, as you could imagine. I did of a lot, lot of like, what's it like up there? How's it go? How did the day go? That sort of thing didn't win Jeopardy. When I played it didn't win mainline Jeopardy. But I'm putting it that way because a couple years ago, a couple years later, me and a couple people did the team based Amazon streaming spinoff. I think it's actually Netflix now, but the streaming spinoff, Pop Culture Jeopardy. And that we won the whole thing. So it's almost like when I had my intuition of like, yeah, I'm good at the stuff that usually doesn't matter. Well, if you make a whole show out of, of that, you know that. And also if your friend, when your friends can help you too. It's like, it's a lot easier when multiple people can answer for you. I'll tell you that much.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I enjoyed Pop Culture Jeopardy. I haven't finished it, which is why I don't feel bad that I didn't realize your, your extended run.

[Zach Golin]

You're fine. I'm so sorry about the spoiler.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's okay.

[Meg Rowley]

You ruined it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I don't have an expectation of, of not knowing what happened. I just want to know if I know the things that the people on the show know. That's really the fun of it.

[Zach Golin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

It's.

[Zach Golin]

I mean, the, the whole thing. I think Alex Trebek has always said the real star is the game or the contestants. I don't remember and I should, but it is really the contestants versus the game and not necessarily the contestants versus each other.

[Meg Rowley]

Did you glean anything about the most.

[Julia Poe]

Common questions asked about baseball or the most common baseball figures asked about?

[Zach Golin]

Yeah, it's. I mean again, when we talk about, we talk about like, what's general knowledge? It's pretty much exactly as you expect where if you just do the most common, common baseball figures, it's going to be Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Pete Rose, kind of just like the greats of the greats are going to be the top. I think you have to get. And a little bit of this is advantaged by the fact that it helps for what I'm doing here. If you've been asked about since 1984, when the data starts, you do have to get to pretty deep down there to get to Mark McGuire who's been asked about a dozen, two dozen times times because you weren't going to ask about him before the mid-90s. I looked at it because I think at this point we could say that Shohei Ohtani is going to get asked about as much as they can or is effectively a top row as easy as it gets. Baseball question at this point and you're still only asking about him about once a year because you don't have to repeat stuff that much. It just doesn't come up enough that you can rotate through the various big sports figures or the sports league themselves and not have to go back to the well that quickly. And especially now that people have this data in the way they didn't before, I think they used to repeat questions a lot more. But now there is sort of an expectation that people are able to watch the show consistently if they're getting ready for it. You don't want to be like, oh, you asked about that a month ago. So I know what it is.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah, right.

[Zach Golin]

Most asked about teams are like again, it's like Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, et cetera. Actually the Pirates for some reason are. I have them next, which is very curious. But I think at that point it's kind of like it's really Yankees, Red Sox and then everybody else. And then yeah, I mean you see that same pattern across the other sports where like the most asked about basketball player is Jordan than everybody else, Gretzky and then everybody else. One thing I thought was interesting is that like when I looked at just kind of all sports figures is that Martina Navratilova was asked about quite a bit. And I think as much as she is an extremely accomplished tennis player, that some of that is is just like what I was saying before is you can say check tennis player and you don't need more information. You should just be able to say Martina Navratilova.

[Meg Rowley]

So you're saying that listening to effectively wild is probably not the best preparation for any aspiring Jeopardy Winners?

[Zach Golin]

No, I don't think so. They do keep the guy. Michael Davies, who produces the show, is also known for Men in Blazers, is a very avowed sports fan, has been talking about about bringing Sports Jeopardy. Back for a while and it would be excellent prep for that. I think if they do bring it back, like that's the thing where the hard pop culture questions on pop Culture Jeopardy. Were way out of range for like regular Jeopardy. So if they bring Sports Jeopardy. Back, I think then that's where they trust you a bit more to know who Denard Spann is.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

If there are any questions about Williams.

[Julia Poe]

Astadillo or John Brebia or, you know, any players of that caliber, then effectively, wow. Listeners will be ready to buzz in, I'm sure.

[Zach Golin]

I'm sure the contestant pool will be rife with your listeners.

[Meg Rowley]

Yeah.

[Julia Poe]

Yeah.

[Meg Rowley]

Well, thank you very much for digging.

[Julia Poe]

Into this further and I recommend the article. I will link to that piece and to your website. If anyone else wants to pester you with questions for their podcasts, they can. And if anyone is wondering what the capital of Mozambique is, what is Maputo? So you know, see, I, I, I.

[Zach Golin]

Didn'T get that far on the flashcards. That's why I lost the regular show.

[Meg Rowley]

Thank you, Zach.

[Zach Golin]

Thanks guys.

[Meg Rowley]

All right, we will have more stat blasting tomorrow and more baseball banter and maybe some email answers, but that will do it for today.

[Julia Poe]

So thanks as always for listening and.

[Meg Rowley]

Special thanks to those of you who support the podcast on Patreon, which you can do by going to patreon.com effectively.

[Julia Poe]

Wild and signing up to pledge some.

[Meg Rowley]

Monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some perks as have the following five listeners. Rogelio Vega, John Gattermeier, Peter Bonney, Duncan Regan and Kevin Brotzman.

[Julia Poe]

Thanks to all of you, Patreon perks.

[Meg Rowley]

Include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, playoff live streams, personalized messages, prioritized email answers, shout outs at the end of episodes, potential podcast appearances, discounts on merch and ad free fangraphs memberships and so much more. Check out all the [e-mail] effectivelywild if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastangraphs.com youm can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music and other podcast platforms.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You can.

[Meg Rowley]

You can join our Facebook [e-mail] group effectivelywild. You can find the effectively wild subreddit at r. Effectivelywild and you can check the show notes in the podcast posted.

[Julia Poe]

Fan graphs or the episode description in.

[Meg Rowley]

Your podcast app for links to the.

[Julia Poe]

Stories and stats we cited today.

[Meg Rowley]

Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. We'll be back with another episode very soon. Talk to you then. How can you not be put down? A stat blast will keep you distracted.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's a long sl to death, but.

[Meg Rowley]

The short will make you smile. This is effectively wild. This is effectively wild. This is effectively wild.