Effectively Wild Episode 2470: The Closer Who Became an Archaeo-Lidge-ist

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2470: The Closer Who Became an Archaeo-Lidge-ist
April 25, 2026 • Hosted by Meg Rowley & Ben Lindbergh

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Meg Rowley and Ben Lindbergh welcome former MLB closer Brad Lidge, who has embarked on a new career as a professional archaeologist. The conversation moves fluidly between Lidge's notable baseball achievements and his archaeological pursuits, reflecting on the intersection between past and present, failure and reinvention, and the quirks of baseball history and tradition. The hosts also touch on engaging listener questions, discuss unique and humorous happenings around the league, stats-driven storylines, and recurring debates about baseball uniforms and traditions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Brad Lidge: From Closer to Archaeologist

[00:45 - 02:40]

• Ben highlights Brad Lidge's dual legacy as an elite closer and now as a real archaeologist.
  • "He's not seasoned enough to be an Effectively Wild guest, but I can't wait another 40 years to do my own excavation of living baseball history." — Ben [01:30]
• Discussion of public fascination with Lidge's career change, referencing recent articles and the enduring interest in athlete reinvention.
  • “A new wave of people discover that Brad Lidge is in his archaeology era, and they’re all just delighted by this, as I was when I first saw it.” — Ben [01:55]
• The episode promises to unpack how baseball and archaeology overlap (or don't), and Lidge’s personal motivations and journey.

2. Brad Lidge’s Legacy: Slider, Success, and Seared Memories

[02:40 - 05:50]

• The hosts recap Lidge’s incredible 2004 season (top five in modern relief WAR), his postseason heroics, and infamous moments (the Pujols and Hinske sliders).
  • “Live by the slider, die by the slider, I guess.” — Ben [03:51]
• Discussion of how the narrative around Lidge is often dominated by the 2005 Pujols homer, which is somewhat overblown.
  • “I think the Pujols homer, in my mind, is talked about a bit too often relative to other notorious postseason gopher balls…” — Ben [04:28]
• Bauman’s theory: Many fans conflate events from 2004 and 2005, further skewing perceptions.

3. Would You Want the Ball from Your First Pitch Home Run Allowed?

[05:47 - 10:19]

• Listener question: Braves prospect J.R. Richie's MLB debut included surrendering a first-pitch home run. The Braves asked for the ball—would a player want that?
  • Meg: Argues in favor of keeping the ball as a symbol of "the survivability of failure."
    • “Having tangible reminders of the survivability of failure...that might be something I appreciated having close at hand as a young big leaguer.” — Meg [07:31]
  • Ben: Echoes sentiment, likening it to a memento mori and a story of perseverance.
    • “It would be sort of self-deprecating… a good reminder—like, memento mori kind of thing. Like, this is how it started...” — Ben [08:56]

4. Modern MLB Oddities: Accidental Challenges

[10:29 - 15:49]

• Ben & Meg dissect recent “accidental” and reflexive challenges in MLB (“check challenge”), citing a White Sox-Diamondbacks incident (Vargas).
  • “You need a replay review, really, to see whether he challenged.” — Meg [11:52]
• Discussion of the body language and social theater around the challenge rule and its interpretation.
  • “Clearly the Diamondback's dugout is giving some guff to the umpire...the umpire then walks out, takes his mask off, and is like, he obviously…he challenged. Like, it's not my fault.” — Ben [12:39]
• Humorous speculation about Malcolm Gladwell writing about this kind of fast-twitch decision-making in baseball.

5. Public Displays of Affection on the Field

[15:49 - 17:04]

• Highlighting a heartwarming moment: White Sox pitcher Davis Martin kisses Grant Taylor on the cheek after a relief performance.
  • “There are a lot of ways to show your boys you love them…That was one of them.” — Meg [16:41]

6. Pitching Narratives: Jose Soriano’s Historic Start

[17:04 - 26:33]

• Soriano’s start: Orioles pitcher allowing just one run through six starts; statistical significance, league context, and small-sample caution.
  • “This is historic...his 0.24 ERA is the lowest in a pitcher’s first six starts of a season since 1913.” — Ben [17:12]
  • “We are still thrilled by the stretch of no run prevention. Right now, Mason Miller, he is doing both. He hasn’t allowed any runs and also...he has basically broken FIP.” — Ben [21:00]
• Debate on how much to credit Soriano’s skill versus luck and timing.
  • “When teams are sort of less than good a lot of the time, which is my diplomatic…very generous way to put it…that's so exciting because, you know, and, and, and some of this is like him having shown flashes. Right. Potential.” — Meg [22:24]

7. Uniform Debates: Yankees’ Alternate Jerseys

[26:35 - 34:19]

• The Yankees may allow alternate jersey use, a significant departure from tradition.
  • “Is nothing sacred anymore? The Yankees can be her suit and they can also wear maybe an alternate jersey.” — Ben [29:17]
• Meg gives a nuanced opinion on uniforms:
  • “If there is a jersey-based kerfuffle to be instigated on the part of the Yankees, it’s…putting the names on the back of the frickin’ uniforms…” — Meg [29:58]
  • She critiques current City Connect trends and argues for throwback alternates over forced “new” designs.

8. Stadium Retail, Names, and Number Traditions

[34:19 - 41:03]

• Discussion on merchandising hypocrisy: Yankees sell jerseys with names even if the on-field versions don’t have them.
• Background on the origin of uniform numbers tracking batting order (Ruth and Gehrig), and how practicality sent the trend away by the 1940s.

9. On-Field Oddities and Rule Quirks

[40:48 - 44:29]

• Ben and Meg muse on unusual happenings, like Logan Gilbert’s gut-catching liner, and what should or shouldn’t count as an out.
  • “One of the things that makes baseball great is that there is like a specific rule about that…” — Meg [41:03]
• Correction: Ron Darling’s assumption about Mets pitcher Nolan McLean’s mound apology was misplaced—it was directed at his catcher, not the hitter.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Live by the slider, die by the slider, I guess.” — Ben Lindbergh [03:51]
• “Having tangible reminders of the survivability of failure...that might be something I appreciated having close at hand as a young big leaguer.” — Meg Rowley [07:31]
• “We are still thrilled by the stretch of no run prevention…” — Ben Lindbergh [21:00]
• “There are a lot of ways to show your boys you love them…That was one of them.” — Meg Rowley [16:41]
• “If there is a jersey-based kerfuffle…the fight should be about putting the names on the back of the frickin’ uniforms…” — Meg Rowley [29:58]
• “You need a replay review, really, to see whether he challenged.” — Meg Rowley [11:52]

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Key Timestamps

• [00:45] — Brad Lidge joins to discuss his career shift from MLB closer to archaeologist
• [02:40] — Recap of Lidge’s baseball legacy (notably 2004, postseason highlights, sliders)
• [05:47] — Listener question: Keeping the ball from a debut home run allowed
• [10:29] — "Accidental" automated challenge incidents; body language analysis
• [15:49] — White Sox bullpen smooch: success and affection on the field
• [17:04] — Jose Soriano’s historically low ERA; how real is it?
• [26:35] — Yankees possibly ditching jersey tradition: Alternate uniforms debate
• [29:58] — Meg’s uniform rant: Names, alternates, and stadium retail hypocrisy
• [40:48] — Quirky on-field rules (catching ball with jersey); corrections segment

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Tone & Style

As always, Effectively Wild delivers playful banter, thoughtful statistical analysis, and affectionate ribbing of baseball’s quirks and traditions. Meg and Ben’s conversational style is both analytical and whimsical, laced with inside jokes and big-picture reflections. Their exchanges weave stats, stories, and sociological musings, making this episode a treat for serious fans and casual listeners alike.

Transcript

[Meg Riley]

Oh, baseball.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What have you done?

[Meg Riley]

Something's never been seen. Something factually fun. Oh, there's so much of you, but there's so little time. So thank God for Effectively Wild. Hello, and welcome to episode 2470 of Effectively Wild, a FanGraphs baseball podcast, brought to you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Riley of fangraphs, and I am joined by Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer. Ben, how are you?

[Ben Lindbergh]

I'm doing well because we've got a great guest today.

[Meg Riley]

Great guest.

[Ben Lindbergh]

A guest we have been very excited to talk to none other than Brad Lydge, the great Bradley. Brad Lidge is on the program. We'll talk a little bit of baseball with Brad. We'll talk about Mason Miller and how he is succeeding with a somewhat Lygian approach to pitching. But mostly, we're going to talk to Bradledge about being an archaeologist. Yep. Because that's what Bradledge is now. He is an archaeologist for real. And you know me, usually I like to wait until a player is an octogenarian, a nonagenarian, before we call them up. But Brad lynch is still a quadrigenarian. That's what we almost are. He's not seasoned enough to be an effectively wild guest, but I can't wait another 40 years to do my own excavation of living baseball history. Because as the only rule readers out there remember, the Closer's the closer because he's the closer. But what if the Closer is an archaeologist? I need to know what that means. So at a time of closer upheaval in Major League Baseball, we are calling in and calling up a closer.

[Meg Riley]

And.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And I've wanted to talk to him about this for a while because he's been in the process of becoming an archeologist for some time now. And so every now and then, there will be an article and there will be a check in and someone will do an interview with him or write a piece about Bradley becoming an archeologist. And then I see a new wave of people discover that Bradley is in his archeology era, and they're all just delighted by this, as I was whenever I first saw it. And there was a recent piece about this, and many more people were hip to the fact that Brad lynch is now an archeologist. And so we have him on the show, and we're gonna get into that his whole second career and how he got interested in this and how it isn't like baseball. It's a great conversation. He's. He's excellent.

[Meg Riley]

A lot of fun. A lot of fun.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He was also excellent at baseball. Brad lynch, man, that guy was good. I mean, like, really good. His 2004 season, which we will talk a bit about with him, that's gotta be maybe a top five reliever season, basically. Top five. It's like tied for sixth or something in fangraphs war in the modern reliever era, the post Eckersley era. But it's up there. I mean, he was just totally, totally dominant that year. And of course, he had many other good years. And he trails only Mariano Rivera and Kenley Jansen in postseason saves. And really just about as good as any pitcher has ever been on an inning, per inning basis when he was at his best. And, you know, we didn't talk to him about when he won the World Series, when he lost a World Series, but his saber bio, for which he was interviewed, it leads with this. Perhaps it is Bradley's fate to be best remembered for two sliders. The first, in 2005, hung over the plate and resulted in an Albert Pujol's blast that decided an NLCS game. The second in 2008, tailed away from Eric Hinsky and clinched a world championship. So live by the slider, die by the slider, I guess.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And I feel kind of bad that when people think about Brad Lydge often, they think of the Pujols homer. I understand why I think of the second one. Well, yeah, both. But I think the Pujols homer, in my mind, it is talked about a bit too often relative to other notorious postseason gopher balls, given that that came in game five of a series that Lydge's team won. Yeah, so that was a big homer. And yeah, the Astros lost that game. The Cardinals won. But then the Astros came back to win the next game and the pennant and advanced to the World Series. So ultimately, it wasn't that costly. And granted, it was an absolute tank. So I do understand why the image of Pujols hitting that homer is just seared into people's retinas. But I was talking to Bauman about this and he concurred that it's kind of overblown in its impact. And Bauman's theory, and I think he might be right, is that people assume that the Pujols homer happened in 2004.

[Meg Riley]

Yes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

When the Cardinals did beat the Astros. I think you're right. It didn't happen then. It happened in 2005, when the Astros beat the Cardinals in 2004. In the postseason, lynch was nails. He was lights out as his nickname said, as he was that entire season. So I think there's sort of a sequencing issue in the way that that highlight slash low light is remembered.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah, I think that. I think that you guys are on to something with that. I think that there's been a scramble. And so it is. It is mischaracterizing the. The pool swan. And really we should just focus on the one and. Oh, wait, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, why not?

[Meg Riley]

That was one hell of a pitch, too.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It was.

[Meg Riley]

Well, suck up, but I'm just saying it was.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Sure. Yeah. We don't talk about either of those at length with Brad lynch because we had so much else to. To him about. And what else is there to say about the most shared highlights of his career? Right. Speaking of a home run, we got a question about a more recent one from Patreon supporter Rick. And Rick wrote to say J.R. richie allowed a home run to James Wood on the first pitch of his MLB debut. J.R. richie, top pitching prospect for the Braves. He just made his debut this week, and he had a strong start, but he did give up a couple dingers, including the one to James Wood on the very first pitch of Richie's MLB career. So Rick writes, I'm sitting a section away from where the homer landed, and an usher told me the Braves asked for the ball back. Now, it's certainly possible the team did this on its own and Richie didn't ask for it. But would you want the ball if you were Richie? Is this. He'd like that pitch back, taken literally. And I remembered that we answered a question on episode 2323, from one JJ who wanted to know whether we would want to save the ball if the first out that we recorded as a pitcher in the big leagues was on a batted ball, not on a strikeout. Because often, you know, a hitter will save the ball from their first hit and a pitcher will save the ball from their first strikeout. But we talked about, well, what about other outs, more democratic outs? Would we want to just keep the ball? That led to a grounder to second or something? And I don't remember exactly what we said. I'm pretty. I said, I. I would. Why not? It's an out. That's a major milestone. But what do you think about the Gopher ball? You give up on your first pitch in the big leagues? Would you. Would you want that one?

[Meg Riley]

I cannot speak to the mind of. Of J.R. richie. His psychology might be quite different from mine, but I think I would because the thing. Yeah, I think the thing about that game is that they won.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Exactly. And he pitched well.

[Meg Riley]

Ultimately he did. And it's a truism that is. Is a cliche at this point that baseball is this game of failure. And I think no one more familiar. I mean, you have more chances to fail like day to day as a hitter, but the drama of your failure tends, I think, to be bigger on average as a pitcher. I haven't done a study of that, but that's my sort of gut instinct. And no more dramatic a failure than a home run. Right. But then they won and he pitched well. And I think that having tangible reminders of the survivability of failure, that would be a. That, yeah, that might be something I appreciated having close at hand as a young big league or even one who's, you know, who prospect evaluators have very high expectations of and think will do well and have a good big league career. Right. I think being like, you know, I hung one and it worked out okay, actually, I was able to kind of get back in myself and do what I needed to and the offense came through and, you know, he only gave up one other run. I. I think I'd want it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. And yeah, even though I have argued that baseball's reputation as a game of failure is overblown, because I think most of them are games of failure. Games of success would be pretty boring. We do, yeah, yeah. But I agree that, I mean, first of all, getting to the big leagues at all is quite an accomplishment. So the artifact from that moment, I think is special. Even if that moment quickly went from wonderful to demoralizing. But also, yeah, it would be sort of self deprecating. It would be a good conversation starter. Yeah, here's my first ball that I gave up in the big leagues. It went however many feet. James Wood just like took it out. I think that would be a nice way to say from such humble beginnings. And you know, if he goes on to have a good successful career, then it would be a good reminder, like memento mori kind of thing. Like, yeah, this is, this is how it started and you know, freeze frame. You're probably wondering how I got there or something. But, you know, even if it's like started from, from the bottom and now we're here. Right. It's like James Wood took me out and then I went on to transcend that challenge not just in my career, hopefully, but also in that start. And that that setback didn't do me in and I picked myself up and dusted myself off and continued to pitch. So, yeah, I. I would want that go. I think that would be meaningful to me.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah. I think. I think I would appreciate being able to look at that on my mantle after. After a hard day at the ballpark and go, you know, it can be. Okay.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Now, a couple of quick follow ups. 1. Did you see the. I'm gonna send it to you. It's the latest accidental challenge that. You could hardly call it an accident.

[Meg Riley]

Oh, yeah. So come on, buddy.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, come on. Right? I mean, this is. This is a quote, unquote accidental challenge. This was. This was from Thursday, and this was in a White Sox game.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah, White Sox.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Diamondbacks. Yes. And it's a batter challenge by Ildemaro Vargas. And he does the. The check challenge. Basically, what we were talking about last time, how sometimes the accidental challenge, it's not really an acc. It's that you meant to challenge, and then you thought better of it.

[Meg Riley]

A little arm move is the best part.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. The signal had already been sent from your brain, and you just couldn't say,

[Meg Riley]

oh, no, wait, stop.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I didn't mean to. You couldn't hold up. And it's. It's the best. Because this was called a strike. And so he thought about challenging. And then. Yeah, he brings. I'll link to this for everyone, obviously. And. And he brings his arm up and he kind of crooks his elbow. And did he actually touch? I think he did, but it's tough.

[Meg Riley]

It's tough to tell from that angle. Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. You need a replay review, really, to see whether he challenged.

[Meg Riley]

We need the. The shot they do over home plate when they're trying to. Just to determine if a guy has actually. Did he go around safe under attack? Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. The check challenge. We've got to check the challenge. And then. So the umpire interprets this as a challenge. And then Vargas is like, what are you talking about? How could you possibly. Yep. What? Huh? And he. He holds up his arms, and they're like, who me? Gesture? And he's shaking his head, and he's kind of appealing to his dugout. And clearly the Diamondback's dugout is giving some guff to the umpire, because the umpire then walks out from home plate, takes his mask off and is like, he obviously. He challenged. Like, it's not my fault. Like, look at what he did. And he's, like, gesturing to his head, like, doing the tapping motion, like, hey, I'm.

[Meg Riley]

I'm challenging.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then Vargas is like, ugh. And he, like, slumps his shoulders, like, I've Been wronged. Like, how could you possibly. I am an innocent party. I'm the wrong man. It's a Hitchcock movie. It's. But here's the. The punchline to all of this. The challenge went through and the call was overturned, Right. And it was a ball. He was correct to challenge. Non challenge. And so ultimately, it worked out fine for him. He tried to pull back the challenge. He couldn't. And then it benefited him because it was changed from a strike to a ball.

[Meg Riley]

I just had a really dark thought, Ben. You know who I'm really nervous about learning about the challenge system and moments like this is Malcolm Gladwell. Oh, no one tell him. Okay. He's gonna. He's gonna write a whole new blink book. You know, he's gonna. He's gonna have a new addendum. And he's like, well, you know, their expert opinion in the moment, they should just trust themselves. So no one tell him. Okay. I know that all of our listeners are, like, in regular correspondence with Malcolm Gladwell. I was. And then I had to block him because he was so annoying. No, I'm kidding. But no one. No one tell Gladwell about this. But. Yeah, this is. This is maybe the most kind of endearing one I've seen, actually.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Because this one. He knew. He knew. He.

[Meg Riley]

Come on.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah, this is. This is not debatable. There was another one in this vein from earlier in the month. Nick Gonzalez of the Pirates, who had a similar sort of reflexive, instinctive one, but it wasn't quite as clear cut that he went around. I'll. I'll link to both of these for people to check out. And I just sent that one to you, too. In that case, the. The challenge was overturned, too. So again, I guess it is kind of a first thought, best thought, at least in some cases.

[Meg Riley]

This is what I'm.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Trust your. Trust your instinc. Yes, you do.

[Meg Riley]

You did. You did do it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Nick, Come on.

[Meg Riley]

Totally did it.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. You know, you're guilty.

[Meg Riley]

I was just. No, you challenged. Oh, my God. That's so funny. What a weird. You know, it's. It's funny, too, because Don Kelly's just like, what just happened? This is not how it was when I was playing. What a funny. This is a real funny one. This is less endearing, I guess, that there's a similar amount of huffiness when it comes right down to it, but the. You don't have the, like, oops a daisy kind of vibe to it. What a funny little time. What a funny little time. We're in.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Great. So is there room for misinterpretation and miscommunication and people who are actually not trying to challenge and just the adjustment of the helmet or whatever, the habitual head touch is misinterpreted as a challenge? Yes, that has happened. But also, sometimes you were caught red handed, you were challenging, you went around. So, yeah, in those cases, I have no sympathy. So you just gotta learn to restrain that impulse.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And segueing into our other follow up on the mound for that Vargas White Sox Diamondbacks incident was Davis Martin, who will figure in this follow up? Yes, we were notified by multiple people about players kissing because they wanted to. And this happened on Thursday in the White Sox Diamondbacks game. The eighth inning, Davis Martin and Grant Taylor enjoyed a little smooch. And yeah, Davis Martin was eager to plant a peck on the cheek of Grant Taylor after Taylor came in in relief and stranded some inherited runners that were bequeathed to him. And, and then there was a kiss to say thank you and to express it in a very public display of affection way.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah, I think that he really thought about the best way to deliver it and, and he arrived at that. So that's nice. I just think, look, there are a lot of ways to show your boys you love them. You know, there's so many ways to show your boys that you're, hey, you're my guy. And there you go. That was one of them.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Little kiss.

[Meg Riley]

Little kiss.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Very nice. And you know, people have paid a lot of attention to the start that Jose Soriano is off to for the Angels.

[Meg Riley]

As well they should.

[Ben Lindbergh]

As well they should. Yeah. He has hardly allowed any runs. He is through six starts, he has a 0.24era, which is about as close to Mason Miller as you can get without being Mason Miller. And this is historic. He is the first player, excluding openers at least in MLB history, to allow one run only through the first six starts of a season. And his 0.24 ERA is the lowest in a pitcher's first six starts of a season since earned runs became official in both leagues in 1913. So this is impressive. Now, as I always stipulate with stats like that about having a certain era or allowing a certain number of runs through X starts, Obviously, guys are typically throwing fewer innings in those starts than they did in earlier eras. So, you know, he's thrown 37 something innings. He's averaging a little over six per start, which is good in this era. But in an earlier era, if he had been pitching as effectively as he has Then he would have stayed in the game and then he would have had to face guys the third or fourth time in that game and maybe he would have been more likely to allow runs and have a higher era. And so like a lot of fun facts, it lies a little bit, but it's still pretty impressive. And I've kind of been wrestling with how impressed to be by this because I think Jose Soriano is a good pitcher. He's been a good pitcher the last couple years and he obviously is off to a stronger start. But he had a stretch last season even when he had the same FIP that he does now. You know, not that this is like smoke and mirrors, but but obviously there's a little luck going on when one has a 0.24 ERA. And so yeah, you'd never believe it, you know, seems tough to Sustain. He has a 205Babip. He has a 4% home run per fly ball rate. So you know, even the peripherals are improved relative to his full season stats. But for example, over this six start stretch he has a 54 FIP minus that is park adjusted FIP. And with FIP minus, as with ERA minus, lower is better. So 100 is average and then the lower it is, the better you've been. So 54 fit minus that only ties the best six game or six start because he was a reliever when he first came up six start stretch of his career last year from June 4 to July 3, he had an identical 54 fit minus over a six start stretch. But it was mid season, not at the beginning of the season and so no one really noticed that. And also he allowed more runs during that stretch so he had the same fit minus. He had a better X FIP even. However he had a 330 BABIP over that span and so he actually had a 4 plus era. And so I wonder because a lot of his peripherals were the same at that time. It was like same walk rate, same strikeout rate, same home run rate, lower ground ball rates now than he had in that stretch last year. So is he a new and different and better pitcher now or did he have a similar six start stretch but better luck? And also it was at the very start of the season and so everyone noticed because your six start stretch now is your entire season and so he has a 0.24 ERA. So I've been wondering about that. Not to set out to denigrate his performance because it's cool to see him succeed this way, but because we've Moved on to a post era mindset in so many aspects of the game and guys get signed now, you know, Dylan Cease gets a massive contract with a high era, but a low FIP and all that. And we barely bat an eye at that. And yet we are still thrilled by the stretch of. Of no run prevention. Right. Right now, Mason Miller, he is doing both. He hasn't allowed any runs and also he has basically broken FIP and is still negative. So, like, you can't possibly come up with any way to ding him. But we are still impressed by not allowing runs, which is, after all, the point of pitching ultimately sort of your.

[Meg Riley]

Your main job is to enter with no runs and exit with no runs or at least enter with. You know, when you're a starter, you have more control over that. In Mason Miller's case, you. Your goal is to enter and exit with the same number of runs that are on the board. That what happens after that is none of your business. But part of why we're so excited about Jose Soriano doing this is that he pitches for the Angels. Like, we can say that that's okay. That's okay to note.

[Ben Lindbergh]

It's exciting doing so well.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah. And, and I don't. That sounds like I'm like, negging him or the Angels. And I'm not like, when teams are sort of less than good a lot of the time, which is my diplomatic

[Ben Lindbergh]

waiver, very generous way to put it.

[Meg Riley]

I have a friend who one time, one of the nicest people I know was describing another woman who was like, not super conventionally attractive, but was a lovely person. And my friend was describing her and said, you know, she's just like, not always the best looking, like in the face area.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Meg Riley]

We're like, you're. Sweetie, you're trying so hard to not say one negative thing about somebody else. So part of this is that, like, he's an angel and he's doing so well. And, and that's so exciting because, you know, and, and, and some of this is like him having shown flashes. Right. Potential. You always are wondering, like, hey, is Jose Rihanna really put it together? And sure, part of it is like, he's doing this right at the beginning of the year, and so his ERA starts with a zero, but he's a starter. That's exciting. I don't think we have to, like, think too hard about it. You know, this seems like, do I expect this to continue? No. But I will say that, like, Jose Soriano has, who is a pitcher, I thought again, was promising and interesting and, and maybe would have benefited from playing in, in front of a better defense at times. To see him doing this and the way he's doing it, it, it's changing, changing my opinion a bit of what, what his baseline ought to be. His baseline shouldn't be a 0 to 4 era, but like it's probably not an era in the fours either, you know, so that's exciting.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Well, when someone starts off like this, we all scramble to find reasons for it, right? And there's an MLB.com article with the headline is this most dominant starter? And it's about Jose Soriano. And I guess Betteridge's law of headlines potentially applies there. Maybe the answer is no, or ultimately will be no. But the story itself doesn't really throw any cold water on the idea that he's the most dominant starter and I guess in a sense he has been. But we're more inclined to notice these things when they happen at the start of a season as opposed to at some other time when the stats are already established. And so it doesn't constitute your entire season. So we're all trying to figure out, well, what is he doing differently? And he's doing some things differently. He's mixed up the pitches a bit and perhaps that has something to do with it. The, the stuff ratings are pretty much the same, but the location ratings have been better. So maybe that will persist, maybe it won't. Maybe this will be fleeting and he'll go back to being just a, a pretty good pitcher, but not as incredible as he has looked thus far. But, but over that stretch, that six start stretch that no one really noticed last year because he was giving up runs, even though the underlying metrics were the same, it showed that he was capable of this, I guess, and you could often kind of dig up. Well, was this really unprecedented? It's like when we talked about Mike Trout's incredible series recently and all the homers he hit and then he had a bunch of stretches of equivalent length that were roughly as hot. Now, with Trout, it was nice just to see him hearkening back to how great he had always been before. But with Soriano it's more, is this a breakout? Is he doing something that he's never done before? And I guess we will see. But yeah, that's been in there for similar stretches of time and maybe it will be more enduring this time or maybe he will morph back into not pumpkin, but just, you know, number two ish starter, something like that. I guess the difference in the stretches is that when he had that six start stretch last year with the same fip, he did allow harder contact, he had a higher average exit velo and hard hit percentage than he does this season. And so you, you might attribute that to him. You might also say, well, that's partly random and not really repeatable too. And hitters have a big impact on their exit speed, not just the pitcher. So is he inducing soft contact or has that just been happening? Anyway, I look forward to unraveling the mystery of Jose Soriano, but it is fun when someone starts a season and just says, nope, no runs for you.

[Meg Riley]

No runs for you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. There was a story this week about the Yankees pertaining to their players petition or appeal for an alternate jersey. And it all developed quite quickly. Now, you know, elsewhere in New York, the Mets are on a winning streak as we speak. So you know, don't let them get hot. I mean they've won two in a row. They did lose Francisco Lindor, unfortunately. So that was maybe a Pyrrhic victory. You get, you get Soto back from a calf strain, you lose Lindor to a more severe calf strain. But they'll take the W's at this point. But elsewhere, I guess there was a W for the Yankees because there was a report initially from the athletic, I believe that the Yankees were interested in an alternate jersey, an alternate road jersey. And of course the Yankees have never had such a thing as an alternate jersey. They have the home pinstripes and they have the road grays and that's that. That there have been some players weekend experiments, but that's it. They're one of the two teams that has not had a city connect jersey. The other being the A's who are, you know, kind of transitory, maybe between cities, at least permanent cities. And then the Yankees, you know, all the, the traditions in the Bronx are, are falling here, right? The tradition of banning facial hair that fell last year, the tradition of winning the World series that fell 15 years or so ago. And now

[Meg Riley]

I just want everyone to, to register the voice that delivered that burn because it wasn't this one. I just want everyone to know, former

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yankees fan here, I can say it. They're my people. Or they once were anyway. Now the tradition of the Yankees not having an alternate that has fallen because there was like the initial report which was the Yankees, you know, unsourced. Anonymous. Some Yankees have maybe appealed to use the batting practice tops. So they have batting practice jerseys that are on the road that are hung in their lockers and John Carlos Stanton had a good line about it like what are we using these for? Are they to test the hangers or can we actually wear these things, but they just use them for batting practice. And now it went from that initial story, which was, hey, wouldn't it be nice if we could use these in an actual game? To about eight hours later a report saying, yeah, MLB has cleared this and I guess the Yankees have taken it under consideration. It's an ownership level decision. So the players are awaiting word, but there is at least a chance that soon they will be able to wear these darker batting practice tops in actual games. And so is nothing sacred anymore? The Yankees can be her suit and they can also wear maybe an alternate jersey.

[Meg Riley]

Okay, well, my initial reaction to this, if I'm being perfectly honest with you, is to not care about it at all. But you know, the discourse demands its answer sometimes and we do have to do a show here. So I'm going to muster an opinion about this, which is that I think it's fine to hold the line on the jersey thing. I think if there is a jersey based kerfuffle to be instigated on the part of the Yankees, it's brace yourself, okay? I don't want you to be alarmed. It's putting the names on the back of the frickin uniforms is what the fight should be about. That's what the fight should be.

[Ben Lindbergh]

They are also the only team that does not have names on the back on either their home or road jerseys in the league.

[Meg Riley]

So yes, and, and we don't need to relitigate that. Although for newer listeners who have not heard this particular rant from me before, I find it dehumanizing and I think it's anti labor and I think everyone should get over that themselves. And if you're going to sell jerseys with retired numbers and the names, you can't pretend that you have a high and mighty opinion of this thing. Okay? Okay. So having given the Cliff Notes version of that, I think that we don't need to be overly precious about jerseys. I like jerseys. I care about them more than you do. I don't care about them to an extreme degree. I think there are a lot of good options for. I tend to be more of an embrace the throwback person than conceive of a. A new alternate. Many of the new alternates are disgusting. They are obvious cash grabs in a way that I find distasteful. They're neither aesthetically pleasing nor ugly in a fun way. A lot of the time you Know, and I think the city connects. In particular, some of the city connects are, are great. You know, speaking of the Angels, the Angels should just wear their city connects. I love those unis. I think they're so sharp. I think they're beautiful. I long for the return of the Nationals. Initial run of city connects with the cherry blossoms. Yeah, those were delightful. Delightful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Part of it is that the Nationals have, you know, one of the more boring color schemes because they, like many other teams, are in the. The sort of generic red, white and blue space, which I don't say is like a, you know, anti flag thing, but just, you know, like, there's a lot of that, right? We've seen a lot of that. But here's the. Here's the problem with the direction we have gone with city connects. We're seeing a lot of the same stuff there too, right. I remain convinced that Nike just has a lot of that light blue line around. And they gotta move some bolts. You know, they got big bolts of fabric, they are semi sheer and they need to move them. And so they're like, guess what? You get a powder blue. Have you ever had a powder blue at any point in your franchise's history? Guess what? You get a powder blue. And some of the powder blues are nice. And some of them are like the brewers old ones. I don't like the Brewer's new ones either. I really like, liked the San Diego ones. So I'm just saying that I feel like we've lost our way with alternates. I feel like more often than not, teams are just better off looking at their past catalog of uniforms, finding the cutest one and using that as an alternate. You know, and again, there are exceptions. Some of them are city connect based. Some of them are, hey, like the Mariners are wearing Steelheads uniforms on Sundays this year. They're perfect. They are pristine. And this is something that has kind of come in and out of the franchise's history, but its adoption by the Mariners, sort of a more recent phenomenon. Perfect. No, no. But more often than not, you're just better off looking to the past and saying, ha, that one was sharp. Let's do that now. No solace for, for the Yankees in that regard, right? Because they are have just been fuddy duddies about this stuff for as long as they've been around. But guess what? That's okay. This one I'm gonna give you, let the boys have their beards. Because for reasons that we've talked about before, right? We gotta a lot of ways to Be a person, more inclusive vibe. Shocking that they never faced a lawsuit around it, candidly. But you found your way. That's great. Love that for you. Lean into that, Lean into having the individuality of your players sing. Right. Because one thing, sure, it's boring, but it's also a neutral canvas. Right. And, and you can just all be yourselves. Now is your most important player is your most prominent, best guy? Seemingly pretty boring.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Riley]

But guess what? Aaron just doesn't need any judging, right? He's Aaron Judge. He's 20ft tall and one of the best players in baseball. So yeah, yeah, that's my thought.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And he wanted this. And what he wants, he gets for the most part and he has earned that. And if he wants it louder, louder in the stadium, then I guess he gets that too. And if you want to say it's a throwback, well, the New York Highlanders starting in 1903 wore Navy Road uniforms during the early years of the franchise. So maybe it's a tribute to that. Yeah, look, I think obviously the Yankees uniforms haven't changed that much, nor did they need to because they're classic and they're instantly recognizable all over the world and they're incredibly lucrative. It's not as if the Yankees have had trouble selling jerseys or anything. So I don't care very much. Generally I'm in favor of players expressing themselves but yes, I, I, I guess I'd rather see that where cleats a different color or something. Some, some piece of flair more so than having to have an alternate uniform. Although the whole point is uniform. It's supposed to be uniform. Everyone's sort of supposed to look the same, but I don't care that much. But it was amazing to me how quickly that story moved. Where it went from like they're advocating for this to oh, well, it sort of sounds like they might get their way.

[Meg Riley]

I think that the capitalist motives here, everything's not capitalism. A lot of things are, but not everything. But one can understand how there change of heart around this. Right. Because it seems like an opportunity to sell more stuff. If you go on the Yankees official online score store right now, every jersey in the bar at the top, find your favorite player. Jersey has their names on the back, every single one of them. Judge 99 Chisholm Jr 13 Also, can I be annoying for a moment? People are like, what's changing now? Guys should have whatever name they want displayed however they want it on their jersey. But I would just point out if you are a junior, you don't have to have that junior on your back of your jersey. Unless you're playing with your dad, you don't need it. You are sufficiently differentiated. Also the juniors about your. Doesn't matter. It does bug me though. It does bug me now I imagine.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Not your last.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah, they're like, hey, there's a lineage and I want to, I want people to know about the lineage. And so they are making a choice grounded in family and feeling. And I'm making a distinction grounded in being the worst person at a party.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, if the captain, Aaron Judge gets his way and, and leads to this landmark change, that makes some sense. And Judge actually made a strong point which is, well, if you're all about history and tradition. Well, we did get the patches on our jerseys a couple years ago. So you're willing to forego tradition when you're getting a buck for it, right? Fair. It remains funny to me that Devin Williams was the one who finally brought down the facial hair policy. Or was the last, you know, the straw that broke the Steinbrenner's back when it came to that. Because you know, not quite as distinguished or long tenured a Yankee as say Aaron Judge. Devin Williams, who had one year with the team, which was not roundly well received and you know, no love lost on his way out and yet he left a lasting impression on the team. While we're talking about Yankees uniforms and names on the back though, I did want to mention because we stat blasted last time about the batting orders where the players lineup slots match their uniform numbers. And we were talking about how that was much more common long ago and I didn't specify, I perhaps should have, although maybe it was self evident. But that was not a coincidence that in the early days of having uniform numbers at all, they sometimes did match the players lineup slots because that was on purpose. They were, they were supposed to correspond. And so you had Ruth batting third and Garrick batting fourth and wearing three and four respectively. That was not an accident. It was meant to map each other. In fact. And I was reading a little bit about the history of that in the indispensable baseball book A Game of Inches by Peter Morris, which gets into just how everything in baseball originated. And people had talked about having numbers on the back of jerseys, I mean going back to the 19th century, this was debated and discussed for decades. And it came to hockey maybe in some ways before baseball. And that intensified the suggestion that baseball should follow suit. And evidently in, in the 20s, in, in 1923, the cardinals decided to do it because Branch Rickey who was then the manager said, I think we owe it to the patrons. The fans do not know all the players. Even I, a manager in the same league, when away from home, must often call an usher aside and ask him who this or that player is. And if I don't know the players, how is any ordinary person to figure it out? Because he's extraordinary. Fair, I guess. But they did implement that, I guess as an experiment in 1924-1925. They were small numbers on their sleeves. But then it really came into vogue later. 1929, the Yankees were. Were trailblazers. And so they showed up in that stat blast for good reason. And they did have numbers on the back that corresponded to the spot in the order. And then it spread a little bit. And the National League actually banned uniform numbers for several years after that. It's like, no, not for us. That's a American League. Not in the senior circuit, it. But by 1933, pretty much all the teams were doing it. But by 1940 or so, that correspondence had pretty much gone away because you can't actually maintain that because batting orders change and also like guys get hurt and so you can't possibly actually keep it matching unless you're constantly switching the uniform numbers, which would be confusing and annoying too. So it wasn't really workable. But for a little while, that's. That's why it was more common in that era.

[Meg Riley]

You can buy a Babe Ruth jersey with Ruth on the back. You can buy a Mickey Mantle jersey with Mantle on the back. You can buy a your name jersey. So I'm just saying, do you care about this?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Meg Riley]

Or do you like principles, you know, sometimes mean for going money. So I feel like I know what side they came down on. Put the names on that backs of the jerseys.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Sacrilege. Yeah. And yeah, as long as you don't use the jersey to catch a liner, then I guess you're good. Because Logan Gilbert, poor Logan, he didn't even get an out out of that. He got a bruise, I guess. But no, yeah, you got to use your glove.

[Meg Riley]

Unfortunately, I, I'm now forgetting who noted this on Blue sky, but it was a post after this podcast's own heart where it's like, like, you know, one of the things that makes baseball great is that there is like a specific rule about that. Right? This wasn't. Yep, there's a rule. There's just a rule about it. Now I do. I understand why there is a rule and I appreciate why, like getting it is sort of just like A cool thing, though. And I feel like you should cover one out. I know, I know why. I know why. Going in the shirt, it's like, like that has to be out of play. Like, because what are you going to do? You know? Like the guys could run forever. I, I get it. But it's so. And it looked like it hurt, you know?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, it did. Yeah. Just give him the.

[Meg Riley]

You don't want to take a ball to the gut.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, yeah, but then people would be using their, their caps, their shoes, their who knows what. But that would be entertaining too. And you can't throw your glove and catch a ball either. Sometimes this leads to confusion, but mostly you are restricted to the mitt. One other minor correction from that same stat blast about the uniform numbers. I think I said Cole Calhoun when I was talking about the Angels and I should have said Willie Calhoun. It was, it was Willie, not Cole. But I saw Angels and I saw Calhoun and I assumed Cole. I leaped to conclusions. So apologies for that. And also one other, I guess, correction, but you know how we talked about the Ron Darling comment about Nolan McLean of the Mets seeming to say my bad to Byron Buxton after throwing an inside pitch and then Buxton hitting the next pitch for a home run and Ron Darling said, ah, this is why you can't be apologetic as a pitcher because the hitter will read you and then he'll know that you're not going to come inside again and he'll sit on an outside pitch and take you deep. Deep. Well, evidently in the next game, in Wednesday's game, we were informed by Patreon supporter Philip, who initially drew our attention to this part of the broadcast. There was a follow up report on the Mets broadcast on SNY from roving reporter Steve Gelbs. And it turns out that McLean was actually apologizing to his catcher Francisco Alvarez about, about missing the location. And so. So Ron Darling then did a mea culpa about the mea culpa and said that he would apologize to maclean for assuming that maclean's apology was directed at Buxton because it was evidently actually directed at Alvarez. So it turns out that that whole thesis by Darling and our discussion of it, it was a case of mistaken apology or mistaken apology recipient. And unless, yeah, unless Buxton also was confused and thought that McClain was apologizing to him and not to Alvarez. Unless this is like McClain's trying to cover up his, his oopsie apology by saying, no, actually I was apologizing to that other guy and make Ron Darling feel bad about criticizing him. Who knows? But. But evidently it was. It was not what it seemed. And so that was not what McClain was doing. And maybe that wasn't what Buxton was doing either when he hit the home run. As we said, maybe he just hit a home run because he's a good hitter and sometimes he hits homers.

[Meg Riley]

Yeah. I think that we should allow for the possibility that the guy who we've all spent the last several years just bereft, that he can't stay healthy enough to show what he can do for a full season. That guy might just be good at baseball, you know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Yes, that'll do it for the free preview of today's Effectively Wild, thank you for listening. Listening. If you'd like to listen on and hear whatever wisdom and wit await, we would love to have you. You can visit patreon.com effectivelywild to access the rest of this episode and plenty of other exclusive content. Weekly subscriber only episodes, monthly bonus shows, our Discord group, our live streams. Either way, we will be back with another episode soon which will appear in full on this feed. Until then, we wish you well and thank you for your support of Effectively Wild. Whatever form it takes.