Effectively Wild Episode 2473: Rushing to Judgement

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2473: "Rushing to Judgement"

Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (The Ringer), Meg Rowley (FanGraphs)
Main Theme: The Rise—and Redassery—of Dalton Rushing, and Thoughts on Baseball Temperaments

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Episode Overview

Ben and Meg dedicate much of this episode to discussing the emergence of Dodgers catcher Dalton Rushing—not just his hot start at the plate, but more notably, his on-field combative attitude (or, as the hosts call it, "red ass" behavior). They break down several recent incidents involving Rushing, consider the nuances of baseball temperaments, and reflect on the broader context of emotional expression in the sport. Later, the duo also briefly discusses lingering Red Sox front-office drama before introducing a guest segment (not summarized).

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Key Discussion Points

1. Defining "Red Ass" and Its Baseball Context

• What is a "red ass"?

  • Ben cites the Dickson Baseball Dictionary: “A tough, angry, intense player. A player who plays hard. A raging competitor who hates to lose.”
  • Meg adds: it's not just about intensity, it's also about being "unreasonable," "aggro," and having "a short fuse." (02:05–02:13)

• Quote:
  "It's not just that you are an intense competitor, but also you're kind of over the top. You're aggro. It's like, settle down, dudes." – Ben Lindbergh (02:13)

• The term "red ass" is part of baseball lore and folk language, often celebrated or reviled depending on who's exhibiting it and who the audience is.

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2. Dalton Rushing: The New "Red Ass" in MLB

• Key Incidents:

  • April: Sign-stealing Accusation

    • Rushing implies the Rockies were cheating after a Dodgers loss:
      "I think it's odd that some of those hitters… go up there and they're on the first pitch that was thrown. So it's a little fishy, but I'll wear it." (03:00)
    • Rockies turn "fishy" into a dugout celebration in response.
    • Manager Dave Roberts undermines Rushing’s accusation, saying he saw nothing "fishy" (04:00).

  • Giants Game Incident

    • Rushing appears to say “f*** him” as Giants' Jung Hoo Lee is writhing after a slide (interpreted via lip reading).

    • Retaliation follows: Giants' Webb hits Rushing with a pitch, leading Rushing to respond with a hard takeout slide (05:00–06:00).

    • Luis Arraez criticizes the slide, calling it "not clean baseball." (05:46)

    • Quote:
      "Don't be confused, young man. I do not have your back in any of this." – Meg Rowley, paraphrasing Dave Roberts' stance (06:04)

    • Dave Roberts both acknowledges Giants’ likely retaliation and does not defend Rushing’s original comments (06:16).

  • Cubs Game Incident

    • Rushing allegedly calls Miguel Amaya "a fat f***" after throwing him out.
    • Nico Hoerner, at bat, confirms Rushing said it:
      "I wish I had confronted him. I was pretty taken aback." (07:38)

  • Umpire Dispute

    • Rushing strikes out on a pitch clock violation after apparently being denied a timely timeout. Hosts agree his frustration seems justified here (08:00).

• Summary of Behavior: "Is this just kind of casual for him?... He seems to celebrate any accomplishment on the field by cursing out guys and insulting them." – Ben Lindbergh (08:47)

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3. The Psychology and Impact of Redassery

• What Drives Rushing's Attitude?

  • Possibility: He's playing well for the first time at the big league level (244 wRC+ / 7 HRs in 15 games), feeling bolder and more self-assured (09:13).

  • Ben notes he was barely noticed last year as a backup, with poor offensive numbers and limited opportunity.

  • Quote:
    "Of all the superstars on the Dodgers, he's one of the more anonymous guys… and a lot of those guys are not super aggro. I mean, Freddie Freeman, Shohei Ohtani… they're not treating opponents like this. So it's a little bit much for me." – Ben Lindbergh (10:15)

• Is It Performance-Enhancing—or a Liability?

  • Some athletes, Ben notes, "fuel themselves on affronts or perceived affronts," sometimes inventing slights to stay motivated (13:30).
  • But, being perpetually angry can burn a player out or become a distraction—especially if they're not producing (14:35–15:14).

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4. Perspective on Emotional Expression in Baseball

• Meg’s Take:
  "There's doing your feelings and then there's having your feelings at someone. And as soon as the focus shifts to other people, you do have new obligations… Mostly I just wish that guys could sometimes react to good things… in a way that read legibly as excitement and happiness rather than the big anger reaction." (12:01)

• Suggests that Rushing seems "a little big for [his] britches"; at 25, he should focus more on respect, especially toward union "brothers."

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5. How Does This Play with Fans and Teammates?

• Appeal to Fans:
  "Sometimes this can endear you to a fanbase because he's our 'red ass'… you hate that guy when he's playing for other teams, but when he's your guy and he's sticking it to your opponents—and importantly, he's hitting—then you’re thinking, okay, fine." – Ben Lindbergh (15:34)

• Limits to Tolerance:
  "Even most Dodgers fans… I don't know that they would necessarily be cursing Jung Hoo Lee when he's down and possibly hurt. He didn't do anything. What did he do?" – Ben Lindbergh (16:12)

• Humor and Metaphor:

  • Meg jokes about "ass colored glasses" vs. "rose colored glasses" and compares Rushing to a "baby with diaper rash" for whom Dodgers fans might feel responsible (16:44).
  • "You'll take care of your own baby's diaper rash… but Dalton is 25, so yeah, he can wipe." – Meg Rowley (17:29)

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6. Philosophical Sidebars

• Personal Preference for Athlete Temperaments:

  • Ben explains he prefers players like Bernie Williams ("placid and serene"), and Shohei Ohtani (talented and unfailingly courteous), over perpetual aggro types like Paul O’Neill or, now, Dalton Rushing (22:22–23:08).
  • Meg agrees, distinguishing between fiery competitiveness within the rules and outright hostility or disrespect.

• Room for the Heel?:
  "Baseball and sports generally, there's a place for the heel… but not the cheating part, hopefully… I think if you're, you know, have a more sort of fiery base personality, that's fine. You don't have to be a dick to people." – Meg Rowley (25:11–26:51)

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7. Closing Reflections

• Both hosts urge perspective and maturity, with Meg admonishing: "Tighten up, buddy." (22:14)
• Ultimately, time will tell if Rushing’s attitude is a quirk, a phase, a strategic choice, or a true liability—or all of the above (22:22).

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "If you're gonna wear it, you don't say anything about it, buddy… you keep those thoughts on the inside of your brain."
  – Meg Rowley (03:31)

• "You appear to be indifferent to the potential suffering of others and kind of a jerk in circumstances that don't merit it. So yeah, tighten up, buddy."
  – Meg Rowley (22:14)

• “I tend to gravitate toward, you know, Bernie Williams was my favorite player. Now it's like I liked Paul O’Neill when I was a kid too… But Bernie was my main man because he presented as just placid and serene and always just competent and clutch and just like different from the typical baseball player.”
  – Ben Lindbergh (23:08)

• On Dave Roberts’ Response:
  "Don't be confused, young man. I do not have your back in any of this."
  – Meg Rowley paraphrasing Roberts' public stance (06:04)

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Quick Red Sox Leadership Update (Towards End, ~27:45–33:56)

• Ben and Meg briefly discuss The Athletic’s in-depth postmortem on Red Sox boss Craig Breslow, focusing on anonymous reports of poor people management, "lack of feel," and a house-cleaning approach to staffing—despite Breslow’s own playing background.

• The lesson: Feel and communication matter, even for front office hires with a playing pedigree.

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Episode Structure—Important Timestamps

• Defining "red ass": 00:33–02:25
• Dalton Rushing incident #1 (Rockies): 02:25–04:20
• Rushing vs. Giants & Jung Hoo Lee: 04:20–06:00
• Hard slide retaliation, Cubs/Amaya incident: 06:00–08:00
• Pitch clock dispute: 07:59–09:02
• Reflection on Rushing’s play/career: 09:13–10:38
• Psychology of athletic motivation: 13:20–14:37
• Fan/teammate perception: 15:34–16:16
• Baseball temperament discourse: 22:22–25:21
• Red Sox front office segment: 27:45–33:56

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The conversation is a mix of bemusement, gentle scolding, and sociological reflection.
• Both hosts balance their desire for baseball personality and drama with a strong preference for respect and boundaries.
• The running gag of “ass metaphors” (ass-colored glasses, diaper rash) keeps the tone light even when discussing serious issues of sportsmanship.
• The episode is a must-listen (or read) for Dodgers fans, baseball culture observers, or anyone interested in how personality and perception shape the modern game.

Transcript

[Mitch]

It's effectively wild. It's effectively wild. Wetman Land Bike Rally.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Hello and welcome to episode 2473 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from Fangraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer, joined by Mick Riley of fangraphts. Hello, Nick.

[Mitch]

Hello, Meg.

[Ben Lindbergh]

There's a new red ass in town. I think MLB has a new reigning red S. For anyone who's unfamiliar with the term, I will read.

[Mitch]

What's red?

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, maybe not as far as we

[Mitch]

know, but we can't speak to that part.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I guess it's. It's how one might act if one's. But were red and that we're causing discomfort. Is that the etymology of this?

[Mitch]

I don't. You know what? I don't want to know the answer

[Ben Lindbergh]

to that because better not to know.

[Mitch]

Could be, you know, it could go bad in a couple of different directions. That feels. Feels like it could be problematic. We don't.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Dixon Baseball dictionary defines red ass as a tough, angry, intense player. A player who plays hard. A raging competitor who hates to lose.

[Mitch]

A raging competition. The word I thought was going to come after ra.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, well, it's not the. The word that a lot of people would use, probably. And yeah, Mark Kerrig wrote a piece about redassery at the Athletics several years ago and talked to players how they would define it, and I will link to that, et cetera. But it goes back quite a ways. I mean, the red ass has been with us for almost a century or so. The actual red ass has been with us a lot longer. But the terminology, probably time immemorial. As long as there have been human beings, there have been red asses. But red butts, the baseball red ass. I think, yes, it's all those things in the Dixon dictionary, but I think there is also. There's an element of unreasonability to it.

[Mitch]

Yes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Like, you know, it's not just that you are an intense competitor.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

But also you're kind of over the top.

[Mitch]

You're just.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You're aggro. It's like, settle down, dudes. Yeah. Right. You're. You're taking umbrage at things that no offense was intended. Right. You kind of have a short fuse. All of those things.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

The new reigning red ass is Dalton Rushing.

[Mitch]

I love that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I got to give you a. A timeline of rushing related incidents here because.

[Mitch]

So they extend beyond the Rockies AC accusation, basically, of them cheating in some ways.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. That was maybe the beginning of it.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So that was one of Them. So in mid April, Dalton Rushing strongly implied that the Rockies were cheating sign stealing, because, yeah, the Rockies beat the Dodgers. And Rushing said, I think it's odd that some of those hitters that do what they do, they go up there and they're on the first pitch that was thrown. So it's a little fishy, but I'll wear it. And then, of course, the Rockies co opted this, and they turned the fishy thing into one of their cellies. Right?

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So good on them.

[Mitch]

Perfect. No notes. Yeah. Can I. Can I pause for you for a second? Read the end of that quote again.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Okay. It is. So it's a little fishy, but I'll wear it, huh? Yeah.

[Mitch]

If you're gonna wear it, you don't say anything about it, buddy. You keep those thoughts on the inside of your brain.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Yeah, I. I don't make excuses. But.

[Mitch]

But.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then insert excuse, which is okay, sometimes excuses are good excuses, but don't pretend that you're not making one.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And then, yeah, he. He said some other stuff, but basically he's calling into question whether they were on know what, maybe they were just good at hitting, or maybe that was on you as a game caller, or who knows what. Now, the most entertaining thing is that Dave Roberts, Rushing's manager, instantly undercut him and said he didn't think there was anything fishy going on. So that was fun. And then, you know, because he probably just wanted to not add fuel to the fire and have some sort of division rivalry here. And, you know, why make this more than it is, Right? So then a few days after that, the Dodgers were playing another divisional opponent, the Giants, and Jung Hu Lee slid into home plate and seemed to hurt himself. He wasn't seriously injured, but he was, you know, writhing around a little and on his back for a bit, and it wasn't clear that he wasn't seriously hurt.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And Dalton Rushing, while walking away after the out was recorded, appeared to say, and I don't think I have any special lip reading skill, but it was widely interpreted as him saying him at Jung Huli. Basically. Yeah.

[Mitch]

Oh, no.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. And this became a whole thing because there was subsequently retaliation because Logan Webb, who insisted that he had not seen the clip of. Of Rushing, purportedly saying this about Webb's teammate. Rushing was hit by a pitch by Logan Webb, and then rushing kind of escalated with a hard slide into Willie Adamus at second on a double play ball. And Luis Arise said, it's not good baseball. It's not clean baseball there. So he Thought that was a, a dirty takeout slide. And opinions varied. There were people who said, eh, look, it's tit for Tad and it's hard notes baseball or whatever, and you know, it's not the biggest deal in the world. But it, it appeared to be instigated by Rushing saying this and, and Rushing denied that he said it, but then Dave Roberts appeared to undercut him. Again, this is my favorite subplot of this, of this running theme.

[Mitch]

Don't be, don't be confused, young man. I do not have your back in any of this.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. Which I think is actually good managing. I mean, that's, I think Dave Roberts is handling this well.

[Mitch]

Like, come on, buddy.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. And so Roberts, you know, when the Giant said that the hit by pitch wasn't intentional, Roberts said it probably was intentional. And for me, Rushing said what he said. I don't think he meant it to personally, but they see it, social media catches it. Webby's an old school guy and he's protecting his teammates. So Roberts was simultaneously defending Rushing by saying, yeah, the Giants probably hit him on purpose. And also they definitely saw this clip. But then also saying, yeah, he said what he said. You know, so. Okay. And now the third part of this trilogy. April 26th, rushing throws out Miguel Amaya of the Cubs on a stolen base attempt and appeared to call Amaya a fat What? Yeah, and Rushing has not confirmed this, but Nico Horner, who was at the plate when Rushing allegedly said this, confirmed that he said that. That. That the lip reading was correct, that everyone. Did he just say fat? Yeah, Nico Horner said, yeah, he said that. And Hoarder said, I wish I had confronted him. I was pretty taken aback. So like, evidently he didn't say anything because he was just like, what? Like what? Yeah, he was like, wait, did you just say that? So maybe, I mean, assuming this is not some sort of like, involuntary. I mean, you know, it's not like some Tourette sort of situation or something. Like, evidently the way that he seems to celebrate any accomplishment on the field is by being like him. And apologies to Shane for making you bleep so many times, but it's Dton Rushing's fault. So then there was another incident a couple days later.

[Mitch]

Another one?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Well, in this case, he appeared to have a point, cuz he was. He was called out by an umpire for having requested a timeout but not being granted it. And so Rushing struck out on a pitch clock violation. And when they showed the replay of this, Rushing appeared to have requested the timeout and said, timeout, please, and like, even made eye contact with the umpire. So it was kind of perplexing that he was not granted time. So I was, I'll defend him on that one. But he did get upset about that, maybe reasonably, but these other cases I like, is this just kind of casual for him? I. I get being competitive and in the moment, tensions are high. And, you know, Giants, Dodgers, there's plenty of history and everything, but this is extreme just to curse out guys and insult them. And like, when Lee is possibly hurt and like, yeah, he didn't do. It's not like there was any affront that we know of. It's like he's personally offended he didn't

[Mitch]

collide with rushing E. Like, he, he just looked like he maybe hurt himself. I remember that play because I thought, oh, God, here we go again. You know, because he's dealt with such bad injury, look, since he's come over.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And why is he cursing out Miguel Amaya? Is it like he takes it personally that Amaya thought that he could run on him or. So, like, does he have that big a chip on his shoulder that he's just personally affronted anytime any competitor tries to do something while he's on the field? And so, yeah, it's just, it's a lot. So, I mean, I don't know whether this was the case with rushing last year, because he was up. He played 53 games for the Dodgers last year as a backup, but he played fairly sparingly. And also he didn't hit. He had a 62 WRC plus. And so maybe I just wasn't noticing him as much or maybe he wasn't feeling himself as much. And so maybe now he's off to a fantastic start. Yeah, it's 15 games, it's 52 player purchases, but he's hit seven homers. He has a 244 WRC plus. So maybe he's feeling his oats a little bit. And he's like, yeah, now I've really arrived. I mean, he turned 25 in February. He's still a pretty young guy. But also, it's just like Dalton rushing. I mean, of all the superstars on the Dodgers, he's one of the more anonymous guys. And like, a lot of those guys are not super aggro, really. I mean, Freddie Freeman, Shoi Ohtani, like, you know, these, these guys are greats and, and they're not treating opponents like this. So it's a little bit much for me.

[Mitch]

I care for that at all. I don't Obviously I don't know Dalton rushing, so I can't speak the particulars of his personality. You know, he was a, a second rounder, but he, like, he was a very highly regarded prospect when it was all said and done. Like, he, he graduated as a top 10 guy for us. And I don't think we were alone in that placement. You know, I think that everyone sort of rightly wondered, how is the playing time going to fall out? Because the Dodgers famously have Will Smith and he's not going anywhere but like he was like a 60fe prospect for us.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So I, yeah, he played a little left in the minors, so you could always. I mean, not that there's a vacancy immediately, but at some point there might be.

[Mitch]

Right. And you know, I think people, especially after Ohtani came on the scene, it's like, well, what do you normally do with a guy like that if you can't play him at first base because of Freddie Freeman? Maybe dhm. Well, they hard to do that on the Dodgers. But if that is motivating some sort of grumpiness, well, that hardly seems like Jung Hoo Lee's problem.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right.

[Mitch]

I just, you know, there are all kinds of people, Ben, in the world. I'm getting sick. It's going to be evident in this little bit of our conversation that I have some brain fog rolling in. But there are all kinds of people and they react to stimulus in all kinds of ways. And some of that reaction, I think, can be a little involuntary. But also, you're an adult. You can react to. You can do little work there to, to maybe have some. You can be happy. You know, this is the thing I often wish that professional athletes, particularly male professional athletes, would internalize. I want folks to do their feelings, be honest about them. But also there's doing your feelings and then there's having your feelings at someone. And as soon as the. The focus of the attention shifts to. To other people, you do have new obligations. And mostly I just wish that guys could sometimes react to good things happening on the field in a way that read legibly as like excitement and happiness rather than the. The big anger reaction. Because a lot of the time that is what it reads as. And you don't need to call someone a. A fat. Come on, man. Like, yeah, yeah, have some respect for your union brothers, dalton. Also, you're 25. Not to. Not to invoke britches, but aren't you getting a little big for yours maybe?

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think so, yeah. And maybe it's because he's having this hot Start to the season. And some professional athletes, not exclusively professional athletes, but some of them motivate themselves this way.

[Mitch]

Sure.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And they fuel themselves on affronts or perceived affronts, and sometimes they invent fictional affronts. They're fabricated affronts. You know, it's the. Nobody believed on us. It's like everybody believed in you. What are you talking about?

[Mitch]

But you were. You were top 10 global prospect. You play for the Los Angeles Dodgers. What is your damage here, Dalton? Like, I don't understand. Yeah, I don't understand.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And it's possible that this is performance enhancing for him. You know? Now, if he were doing this last year and perhaps he was, and I just wasn't as aware of it. I don't know. Or maybe because it was his first year in the big leagues and he wasn't hitting then and he was just trying to break in, maybe he toned it down a bit. But if. If he were doing this act and not producing, well, that would be one thing. If he is hitting as well as he is and this is happening, then maybe you put up with it. But I like the way that Dave has handled it, which is don't publicly show up your guy. You know, don't like, accuse him of being immature or rebuke him that way,

[Mitch]

but kind of do that publicly.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Right. Send a subtle signal, you know, or just behind closed doors, sit him down at some point and say, you know, we don't have to play this way. Because, yeah, you. You can burn out, I guess, this way if you're constantly angry. So red ass can be performance enhancing. And it really depends on the guy, I guess. You know, some people, they just always have to have some. Someone who's slighting them, someone to be mad at. It's not enough just to compete. And other guys that could actually impair their performance because it would distract them and they'd be seeing red and. And they wouldn't be focusing.

[Mitch]

Yeah, red eyes.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes. And they wouldn't be focusing on their performance, and they'd basically be on tilt. Right. And it would get them off their game. So maybe rushing is the type who can channel this. We will see. I would be curious to hear. I've seen some reactions, but I'd be happy to hear any from our listeners. How this is landing with Dodgers fans.

[Mitch]

Yeah.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Because sometimes this can endear you to a fan base because he's our red ass, you know, and so you hate that guy when he's playing for other teams, but when he's your guy and he's sticking it to your opponents. And importantly, he's hitting.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Then you're thinking, okay, fine, we'll put up with this or we'll even embrace it. We like to see this sort of spirit because maybe we feel that personally. Yeah. The Giants. Yeah. Express our thoughts. Right. But then also, I think even most Dodgers fans who have a grudge against the Giants, I don't know that they would necessarily be like, cursing Jung Huli when he's down and possibly hurt. Like, he didn't do anything. What did he do?

[Mitch]

I had two. I've had two thoughts in the last two minutes. Made me almost laugh really hard. You know, it's like, you know the expression rose colored glasses? And so I was getting ready to say red colored glasses, but then my. My rapidly declining sick cognition. Just colored glasses. You have ass colored glasses.

[Ben Lindbergh]

We talked about glass ass, so why not glass glasses? Ass glasses.

[Mitch]

Ass glasses. You have ass color glasses. But then also, I thought the, The. The demographic of, of human I associate most with having a red ass is babies. Like, babies will get, like, they get like, diaper rash and, you know, and so that Dalton is the Dodger's baby. And it's like, you know, you'. Up. You'll take care of your own baby's diaper rash, but you wouldn't, you wouldn't be comp. You wouldn't feel compelled to do that for other people's babies. I mean, maybe you would because it's like, oh, it's a little baby. You need to help him. Can't do it himself because it's a baby, But Dalton is 25, so yeah, he can wipe.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He can use some dude wipes.

[Mitch]

He's not a. He's not a babe. Yeah, dude wipes. See, dude wipes are the perfect analogy for this moment because it's like, are you guys okay? Also, everyone, I know it says that you can flush those, but you shouldn't.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah, that's a recipe for Fatbergs.

[Mitch]

Oh, right. That's right. Anyway, we're recording on a Thursday, but this is effectively our Friday episode because it's the last one of the week. So we've embraced the spirit of the thing. I wonder if I have a full blown fever yet or if that's an hour or two away from now. But Dalton, man collects chill. And part of it might be the problem, quote unquote, of his circumstance, which is, you know, everything's going great for Dalton rushing right now, and things are mostly going well for the Dodgers, although they no longer have the best record in baseball and they're, they're tied with the Reds for the second best record in the National League. So maybe they're feeling a bit on tilt themselves. Although they, they are still leading the Padres, if only slightly in NL West. So maybe, you know, you, you get into a spot where if being a red ass is important to your in game psychology and ability to motivate. Well, what are your problems? You know, you don't have, you don't have any, any baseball problems really. I, I can't. Again, I don't know Dalton, so I can't speak to whether or not he has any like being a human being problems. But you don't have any baseball problems. You're the Dodgers. You're a player on the Dodgers playing well. So maybe you have to resort to this extreme of redassery to get up for it. But to, to that I would say you got to find it in yourself, buddy. You know, you got to find. Now I feel like I'm talking to him like he's a baby.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah. Yeah. And I know nothing about him. And I mean this behavior, this, this public Persona, this competitive Persona does not make me want to know him on a personal level. It makes me think maybe we wouldn't get along great. Yeah, there are some players who just turn into competitive monsters on the field and then off the field. They're nice, easy going guys. It's possible. You know Rich Hill, one of our favorites, right. He's like on his start day.

[Mitch]

I don't think Joe Hill would call anyone a fat.

[Ben Lindbergh]

No, he's, he's intense in a different way. It's, it's inwardly directed, more so than. Yeah, so it's a different kind of.

[Mitch]

Yeah. And so.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

And I think the thing. And it seems, I agree with you. Like, I appreciate the way that Roberts is handling this and it suggests to me an identification of it as a potential issue. The thing about being a red ass in a way that competitors take note of is that the consequences of that red asteri don't tend to be limited to you. You know, if it gets out of hand, if it gets out of hand, you might not be the only one there potentially spiking or whatever.

[Ben Lindbergh]

You might be wearing one. It's a distraction. It's a storyline. Other people are going to be. Yeah, they're going to have to answer for it at least or give their opinions on it. And you're dealt in rushing like you're, you're off to a strong start, but you're pretty low on the, the pecking order here. Right. Like, you're low on the hierarchy of seniority and stardom.

[Mitch]

Right. So just find a different. It's like, you know how in. In acting, they're all of these. There are different approaches, right. To being an actor. Different ways of, of locating the feeling that you need in order to.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes.

[Mitch]

Ply your craft.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He's the Jeremy Strong of the Dutch.

[Mitch]

Right. I was like. And is redassery and, and being method. Are they. I'm. I'm drawing a parallel that I think is actually not methodologically sound, but is personality sound, if you get my drift. So you need to. You need a different approach. Dalton need to locate. You need to go back and find like some other Eastern European named method to. To locating the motivation, assuming that's what it is. And, and I guess for Dalton rushing sake and for the sake of others who might enjoy Dalton rushing, you kind of hope that that's what it is, because otherwise one might be led to conclude that you're just a dick.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yes, it's possible.

[Mitch]

Which again, might be possible. We don't want to. We don't want to impugn the young man's character because we don't know him. But I also would say the indicators you're supplying us with, Dalton, you should pick different indicators. These ones don't cast you in a good light. You. You appear to be indifferent to the potential suffering of others and kind of a jerk in circumstances that don't merit it. So, yeah, tighten up, buddy.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Whether this is ultimately good makeup or bad makeup in a baseball sense, it depends. And, and time will tell. But I don't gravitate toward this type of player personally. You know, there are people who, maybe they're wired that way and they see themselves in that guy or they just, you know, and I like to see some. Some evidence of caring. I've even talked about, okay, if my team has a rivalry with another team. Even though it's sort of silly, some amount of fraternization almost kind of breaks the kayfabe of, oh, we're really trying to beat these guys and we care about this rivalry. But this turns me off and I'm not at all wired this way. And this is like antithetical to my makeup and personality. And so I tend to gravitate toward, you know, Bernie Williams was my favorite player. Now it's like I liked Paul o' Neill when I was a kid too.

[Mitch]

Sure.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And Paul o' Neill was more this way, you know, not necessarily exactly to this degree, but he would Throw things, You know, he would break bats, he would toss stuff. And a lot of people didn't like Paul o' Neal because he would do that stuff. And Yankees fans loved him. Oh, he's the warrior, right? Because he's our guy who gets. And so those were the two polls, really, and I liked both of those guys. But Bernie was my main man because he presented as just placid and serene and always just competent and clutch and just like different from the typical baseball player. And he was even bullied and picked on by the monster Mel hall early in Bernie's career. And I appreciated that. It was sort of like, oh, this is what I would be like if I were this good at baseball, you know, or the late Garrett Anderson RIP who just died too young and was also someone I really appreciated watching from afar because he just kind of went about his business and, you know, he was good, not spectacular, but solid. And like, always just kind of represented the team well. And he was durable and he was always going to be there and he would give you his production. And so I just, I like that type of player more so than the guy who is just going at everyone at all times. And I appreciate that about Shohei Ohtani, the fact that he's so preternaturally talented and yet he's incredibly courteous of, of everyone at all times. And like, he clearly cares and he wears his heart in his sleeve and he'll pump his fist and he'll shout and everything, but it's never meant to put anyone else down. And he's constantly, like, you know, expressing concern for people and like, picking up trash on the field. All this stuff where, like, he could be a red ass and he could be big timing everyone and he would get away with it because he's maybe the best ever. Yeah. And so, I don't know, maybe model yourself more on that Dalton rushing. But.

[Mitch]

And like, I think that baseball and sports generally, there's a place for the heel, right? There's a place for the guy, the Breckman or like, you know, but not

[Ben Lindbergh]

the cheating part, hopefully.

[Mitch]

Yeah, well, and then once you do the cheating part, the heel thing reads totally differently. Right. And it, it, you know, it ruins it or like to pick a slightly more obscure player. Jose Caballero does a fantastic job, and this has become less pronounced over time just because, you know, guys are, are more comfortable with the pitch clock. But like, you know, there, there are rules about how the, the pitcher has to be, like, alert to the batter. Jose Caballero is a Master at messing with guys, timing and stepping out at just the right moment. And you know, he, and he did this when he was a Mariner and that was when I first noticed it. And then when, you know, he's continued that as he has moved through the various teams of the, of the AL east. And it really bugs guys, it bugs opposing pitchers quite a lot and it's delightful. But it's not. He's not being, I mean, I guess he is being a dick in a way. Right. Because he's. But he's engaging adversarially with the opponent within the confines of the rules of the game. Right. And I think that that is fun and can be interesting and other fans of other teams probably hate that behavior, but it's baseball behavior. Right. And you don't have to be everybody's best friend and I don't have a requirement of stoicism. I think if you're, you know, have a more sort of fiery base personality, that's fine.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Yeah.

[Mitch]

You don't have to be addicted people, you know, like, that's where I think this feels like. And it's just like, hey, man, like what? I'm just laying here potentially hurt. I'm just. You already got me out, you know. Yeah, you did your, you did the job. You can do a little like. Yeah. When you throw a guy out on the bases, that's great. That's exciting. You don't have to be excited. It. And like, in a way that's so personal too, like, I know why call.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What are you doing? Yeah. So hopefully it's just growing pains and learning curve.

[Mitch]

Why is it always catchers too?

[Ben Lindbergh]

Settle down, rook. Yeah, often.

[Mitch]

It's not always catchers, but it is often catchers.

[Ben Lindbergh]

They're kind of the field generals, they're the enforcers. Right? Yeah. And to be clear, I like the, the boisterous, ebullient guys too, even though that's not me so much. It's not just that I like the, the quiet types, the stoic guys, but also the cheerful, joyous ones.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Just not so much the angry red ass ones, but, you know, in moderation, just not quite like this. Anyway, speaking of, of Bregman, he was quoted in an article I read at the Athletic with four bylines. And you know, it's serious when you've got four bylines on the athletic report. And it is maybe the most in depth of the Boston firings postmortems. Yeah. Because we were talking to Alex earlier this week about, well, what's going to come out next and who's going to be saying what. So the Athletic has inside Craig Breslow's stunning Red Sox house cleaning quote. It's his show, bylined by chad Jennings, Jen McCaffrey, Patrick Mooney and Ken Rosenthal. And it is very much the airing the dirty laundry that we sort of forecasted would be coming. So lots of anonymous quotes from people who are or have been with the Red Sox, and then lots of Craig Breslow saying, no, that's not what I was thinking or that's not what I was doing. But yeah, basically it's. The takeaway is that according to these sources, Breslow, bad boss, annoying boss, lack of feel, got on people's nerves. And what I asked Alex about, which is, do you think that he was looking for a reason here, that he kind of wanted to install his own guys? And Alex didn't necessarily think that was the case. And Breslow denies that that's the case, but these sources say that that was the case. And, you know, maybe if they're the jilted, spurned, dismissed parties, then maybe they would think that. And that's something pretty to tell yourself. So it's never really conclusive with he said, he said, they said, he said whatever. But. But that's the basic dirt and takeaway is one source says he wanted to fire everybody who was here before he got here. That's what he has now. And he has conducted this purge, particularly of the hitting side. And Breslow, you know, there's some robotic business speak in here about how. No, it's not that. And I'm just. We're just reassessing constantly and, you know, nothing personal, it's just all objective and, you know, it's not in practice ever really like that either. So I'm sure the middle ground is somewhere in between. But yeah, it does sound like there was some annoying busy work going on, at least like it says at one point last year, according to people involved, Breslow asked the Red Sox coaching staff to begin documenting every pregame hitting and defensive drill done by each player, which some coaches found excessive and time consuming, further fueling a perceived lack of trust between the staff and the front office, which is probably familiar to anyone who has had a boss who got on their nerves at times. And it's just like the principles seem sort of sound like, let's track sure we are doing here so that we can evaluate it and see who's getting help and who's not getting help. So, yeah, I guess that makes sense on Some level, but then also, like, every interaction has to be measured and charted, and then how much paperwork is that? And that's constantly having to keep track of all that stuff. And maybe that takes you out of the moment, and is anyone actually going to be using that in any real way? So I don't know. We've all had that experience. Maybe the. The goal makes some sense, but the methods are just a bit onerous, perhaps. So it's really interesting that it's like, lack of feel is the knock against a guy who was a player for a long time, for the Red Sox, even. And so you would think that even if he is not the typical player, he would know how things would resonate with players or repel players. And maybe he knows and just doesn't care, but that has backfired.

[Mitch]

Yeah, they don't teach that at Yale,

[Ben Lindbergh]

but even if they didn't teach it at Yale, they teach it in baseball clubhouses, which he was a part of for a long time. Yeah.

[Mitch]

It's a weird thing that this archetype seems to still be so prevalent when, like, the people management part of it, we just. We just know how important that is, and we. We've had enough of these, I would think. And, you know, there are plenty of clubs that have guys with low feel running their front offices that are very successful, so it's not like it can't be done. But I think that we know that it helps to have a little bit of feel and that people want to feel valued and want to have their opinion respected. And that's not to say that, like, there weren't improvements that could have been made from a dev perspective or a management perspective. You know, when I. When we read Evan's book about the Astros, I think I said this at the time, like, one of the people I came away being like, I don't know how. How I feel about this guy was Cora. So, like, you know, I think there are a lot of ways that you could interpret him as a person that, you know. So I don't mean to be like, I'm not trying to, like, pound the table for Alex Cora. I don't know. But it does seem like there, as we said when we talked about it, the through line that seems to be emerging in Breslow's tenure with the Red Sox is that in circumstances where difficult decisions have to be made and there is a delicate sort of bit of communication to do to try to minimize the damage from those decisions, he tends to flame the fires rather than put them out. And that's a, a problem, you know, that's a, a leadership failure.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And you would think that the people least likely to have feel would be me and Sam running the Sonoma Stompers, right? Like it's, you know, you'd think if you're hiring a 12 year big leaguer, right, get the feel at least whether he's good at other aspects of the job, who knows. And it's not as if former player executives have always been player friendly, far from it in some cases, but at least relating to players, you'd think that they would have a handle on that. And so I wonder if he's overcompensating because he is a former player and so he's being more McKinsey NBA brained just because of that background to impress, I don't know, his higher ups or something. Who knows, maybe he's pressing. But whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be working on an interpersonal level at least so.

[Mitch]

Right.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Maybe more to come. But we expected some dirty laundry and there it is, hanging on the clothesline. So we have a guest today. We are bringing on other Ben, Ben Clemens, who is going to talk to us about the strike zone. The strike zone is different and also the same. So it is being called differently and not just because of the challenge system. And it is smaller and it is differently shaped and that is having some effects when it comes to offense and walk rate, et cetera. And so we will talk to Ben about that and also about the enigma who is Munetaka Murakami and whether he can keep this up and why the scouting reports were wrong, if in fact they were wrong. But perhaps it's too soon to say so we will dive into all of that with Ben and I will segue to Ben with a stat blast. That'll do it for the free preview of today's Effectively Wild. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to listen on and hear whatever wisdom and wit await, we would love to have you. You can visit patreon.com effectivelywild to access the rest of this episode and plenty of other exclusive content. Weekly subscriber only episodes, monthly bonus shows, our Discord Group, our livestreams. Either way, we will be back with another episode soon which will appear in full on this feed. Until then, we wish you well and thank you for your support of Effectively Wild, whatever form it takes.