Effectively Wild Episode 2511: Will the WPBL Be a W?

Summary

Effectively Wild Episode 2511: Will the WPBL Be a W?

Date: July 31, 2026
Hosts: Ben Lindbergh (B), Meg Rowley (A)
Guest: Kiri Oehler (C)

---

Episode Overview

This episode covers the run-up to MLB’s trade deadline, the launch of the Women's Professional Baseball League (WPBL), and notable baseball stories and curiosities from the week. The hosts begin with a lighthearted conversation about life disruptions—Ben’s recent jury duty and Meg’s medically necessary colonoscopy—before getting into Dodgers financial intrigue, rookie phenoms, animal interruptions on the field, and, finally, an in-depth preview of the inaugural WPBL season with guest Kiri Oehler.

---

Key Discussion Points

Opening & Personal Updates

• (00:58) Ben returns from 10-day jury duty, sharing his unexpectedly positive experience of collective civic responsibility.

  “Even as onerous as it was at times… it is something that really does restore at least some semblance of faith in democracy slash the justice system slash your fellow humans.” – Ben (01:45)

• (04:03) Meg prepares for a colonoscopy, offering both medical PSA and comedic grief about prep details and insurance costs.

  “Most expensive s*** I'll ever take in my life, I hope.” – Meg (05:00)

• Light riff on liquid-diet instructions and clear vs. “not-clear” liquids, with Gatorade color debates.

---

Dodgers Front Office Under Investigation

• (09:03) Dodgers’ owner Mark Walter is under scrutiny for alleged financial improprieties involving $16 billion in loans; intrigue extends to his alleged impairment after a 2024 stroke.
  • Investigation details, how such an issue could be the rare existential threat to the franchise.

  “If you could construct some scenario where Mark Walter’s financial empire is disassembled and he has to sell the team… maybe you’d be reading these articles with great interest.” – Ben (11:48)

• (16:49) Discussion of how high-profile sports business investigations seem a priority for the current DOJ, with speculation about motivations and processes.

---

Roki Sasaki and the “Big Glove”

• (18:06) Spotlight on a Wall Street Journal story about Dodgers pitcher Roki Sasaki’s “cartoonishly large glove” supposedly ending his pitch-tipping woes.

  “It is a honking glove.” – Meg (18:32)

• Ben is highly skeptical of simple cause-and-effect after only two strong starts:

  “I'm not making too much of this yet... Until he has an unprecedented run of success with the big glove, I’m not gonna buy that it was the big glove all along that was causing his issues.” – Ben (23:55)

---

Munetaka Murakami’s Success & Evaluation

• (25:15) Discussion of White Sox slugger Murakami, who leads MLB with a 1.249 OPS against 97+ mph fastballs, confounding initial doubts about his ability to hit high velo.

  “It does go to show… sometimes you bet on the talent and hope for the best.” – Ben (29:41)

• Reflect on free agency market mis-evaluations, injury risk context, and adaptability of talent from NPB to MLB.

---

Animals on the Field: Squirrel at Comerica Park

• (33:40) Lighthearted recounting of Detroit’s “squirrel game,” featuring a ground crew Keystone Kops chase and Jason Benetti’s celebrated play-by-play.

  “It was a comedy of errors… It's tough to corral a squirrel, I guess.” – Ben (36:00)

• Discussion on animal encounters in baseball, Ben’s reminiscence of rabies shots, and animal streakers vs. human ones.
• Mascots, “nude” animals, and the minor internet celebrity “Jimothy” the Seattle raccoon.

  “Every animal is a streaker.” – Meg (47:45)

---

Mariners’ Woes, Tigers Updates, and Trade Deadline

• (52:24) Exasperation with Mariners’ slumping play and frustrations of listening to opposing team broadcasts (“slop-ass baseball”).
• (53:00) Max Clark called up by Tigers; speculation about whether top prospect promotions tie to a potential Tarik Skubal trade.

  “Does this mean something? Does this… tell us anything about the likelihood that Skubal will be traded?” – Ben (53:09)

• Injury note: Mead, recently acquired by the White Sox, immediately fractures his wrist. Ben highlights how deadline moves can be quickly derailed by injuries, referencing BP's new IL triage tool.

---

Bryce Harper, Phillies, and Trade Market Tension

• (57:37) Recap of minor Phillies controversy: Harper’s mild suggestion the team could use reinforcements sparks managerial defensiveness.

  “‘Players like being GMs and making calls and spending other people’s money...’ So I just let it go at that.” – Ben paraphrasing Don Mattingly (61:47)

• Discussion on prospects’ injuries and trade deadline implications for contenders like the Phillies.

---

In-Depth Segment: Preview of the Women's Professional Baseball League (WPBL)

w/ Kiri Oehler
(64:46–112:34)

League Structure & Schedule

• (67:03) Four teams: New York Heights, Boston Hunters, Los Angeles Queens, San Francisco Fire Bells.
• All teams will play at Robin Roberts Stadium in Springfield, Illinois, for year one.
• 30-game regular season (six weeks: mostly Thurs–Sun), followed by a two-week playoff (semifinals and finals). All teams make the postseason.
• Games are 7 innings. Some WBSC (Women’s Baseball and Softball Confederation) rules apply, e.g., optional DH, pitch clock with bases empty (per post-recording note at 112:34).

Player Demographics and Notables

• Strong international flavor, particularly Australians (due to more supportive baseball culture for girls).
• Several notable names: Mo'ne Davis, Kelsey Whitmore, Ayami Sato, Maggie Meidlinger (also a professional sports architect).
• Some players double as coaches or have other careers due to pay scale.

Roster and Manager Highlights

• (83:31) Managers for inaugural year:
  • Boston Hunters: Keith Foulke (ex-MLB reliever, Red Sox World Series closer)
  • New York Heights: Rochelle “Rocky” Henley (renowned Bay Area girls' baseball coach)
  • San Francisco Fire Bells: Matt Williams (former Giants 3B/manager, coach in MLB and KBO)
  • LA Queens: Eric Young Sr. (former MLB leadoff hitter/coach)
  • Meg: “Three out of four are kind of the Jimmy Dugan/Jimmy Foxx model—ex-MLB guys without obvious women’s baseball ties.” – Ben (86:34)

Team Names & Historical Influences:

• Thoughtful team name choices, honoring boundary-breaking women from each city’s history (detailed stories at 77:45–81:45).
  • Boston Hunters: Named for Harriet Hunt, first woman to practice medicine professionally in the US.
  • New York Heights: Named for Dorothy Height, civil/women’s rights leader.
  • SF Fire Bells: Named for Lily Hitchcock Coit, legendary fire company supporter/socialite.
  • LA Queens: Named for Lizzie Murphy, "Queen of the Diamond."

Broadcasting & Accessibility

• All games will stream on ESPN Select (the new ESPN+), with 11 simulcast on Scripps Sports Network.

  “There’s a very last-minute feel to all of this that I wish were not there.” – Kiri (95:51)

Pay & Viability

• Announced salary cap is ~$95,000/team, meaning ~$6k per player for the season—an acknowledgement of both humble beginnings and the need for growth.
• Optimism about public interest and the exposure ESPN brings, but recognition of big obstacles regarding money, operational bandwidth, and long-term investor patience.

  “As much as I don’t like saying that a player is making $6,000 over eight weeks… there are certain realities of a brand-new league.” – Kiri (90:26)

• Blend of caution and hope: league probably under-resourced but run by earnest advocates; success will be defined both by viability and by impact/inspiration even if short-lived.

Measuring Success

• Metrics: Progress toward home city venues, expansion beyond four teams, ability to generate excitement and stable broadcasts.
• Quality of Play is important—league’s legitimacy depends on visible skill/worthwhile product.
• Community Appetite: Early evidence—fan demand for viewing options, sellout crowds for opening day in Springfield, and social media engagement (e.g., “people banging down their door to find out how to watch”).

Memorable Quotes

• “If nothing else, I think this league will be able to show that there is an appetite for watching women’s baseball… and that’s a really valuable data point we have already before anyone has even taken the field.” – Kiri (110:19)
• “Supposed to be hard. If it wasn’t hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.” – Ben, quoting Jimmy Dugan (112:34)

Where to Watch/When:

• First pitch: 6pm Eastern, Saturday, August 1st (Queens vs. Heights on ESPN Select).

---

Notable Moments & Quotes

• On the spirit of baseball’s animal interruptions:

  “Animals can breach that barrier and just interrupt these proceedings with these extremely well-paid people… and then we all just have to wait while they take their sweet time.” – Ben (47:41)

• On the Mariners' struggles:

  “Can’t play this slop-ass baseball against the freaking Dodgers, okay? You can’t play slotball against the Dodgers. They’re the Dodgers.” – Meg (52:24)

• On the first season’s stakes for WPBL:

  “No matter what, they will get to say that they were professional baseball players in a professional women’s league. And I don’t think we should take that for granted.” – Kiri (110:19)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jury Duty/Colonoscopy/Personal Updates: 00:56–09:03
• Dodgers/Mark Walter investigation: 09:03–16:49
• Roki Sasaki’s big glove & pitch tipping: 18:06–25:15
• Murakami, International Signings, and Evaluation: 25:15–33:40
• Detroit Squirrel Encounter: 33:40–47:41
• Mascots/Jimothy the raccoon: 49:35–53:00
• Mariners/Tigers/Max Clark/Trade Deadline: 52:24–57:37
• Mead injury, Deadline fragility: 57:37–61:47
• Phillies/Bryce Harper trade talk flap: 61:47–64:24
• WPBL Season Preview (with Kiri Oehler): 64:46–112:34

---

Conclusion

This episode combines classic Effectively Wild banter and personal asides with substantive, at times skeptical, at times hopeful, discussions of MLB’s business, competitive, and cultural quirks. The deep dive into the Women's Professional Baseball League provides context, expectations, and cautions for this historic launch, capturing both the potential and the precariousness of starting something new in professional sports.

Don’t miss:

• Ben’s reflections on democracy (01:45),
• the squirrel saga (36:00),
• WPBL preview—league basics, player stories, and business realities (64:46 onward),
• and real-time debates on fruit juice, clear liquids, and raccoon intellectual property.

Transcript

[A]

They'll keep you company, they'll keep you sane on a long bike ride or

[B]

a slow work day.

[A]

Megan. Battle waxing battle playoff race whose bats hard. It's Effectively Wild. So stick around, you'll be well beguiled.

[B]

Hello and welcome to episode 2511 of Effectively Wild, a baseball podcast from FanGraphs, presented by our Patreon supporters. I am Ben Lindbergh of the Ringer, joined by Meg Riley of fangraphs.

[A]

Low mechanical hello.

[B]

Well, we are recording at a normal time for us because my time is more or less my own again. My jury duty is done, I have fulfilled my obligation, my service is complete and it was 10 days in total. The tale of the tape. Yeah, inconvenient to say the least when it comes to juggling that and all other life obligations. But I will say and I felt this way the first time I did it too. Maybe even more so this time though it does up being a very heartening, affirming experience. Or at least it has in my case. Even as onerous as it was at times to, to get there and, and not be able to do other things when you're in that room with 11 other people who were previously strangers and whom you will probably never see again and you are trying to weigh the evidence and, and ensure that justice is done. It is something that really does restore at least some semblance of faith in democracy. Slash the justice system, slash your fellow humans. Because I don't know if I've, I've been lucky or not, but I think the people who make it to this point, I think they do take that responsibility really seriously. And I mean the incentives are, oh, let's just quickly come to a decision so we can return to our lives. But no one came into it with that mindset, everyone. We were really being deliberate in our deliberations and being thoughtful and considering everything and being respectful of other people's feelings and opinions and coming to a consensus. And it was actually quite heartening to go through that experience. So I, I don't really recommend it exactly, but if you do end up doing it, then hopefully you will leave with your, your spirits by the experience to some extent, as I did.

[A]

I'm glad that that was your experience of it and that you did not come away like preparing to be a talking head in a documentary on Netflix in 20 years about a severe miscarriage of justice. And I, I appreciate your service, Ben. That's, that's, you know, we want, we want fair minded, open minded, level headed folks going into situations like that so? Good job you.

[B]

The institutions, the systems, they're, they're flawed. Perhaps more now than at previous times. At least some previous times. But, but individuals, I like to think in many cases will, will come together and do this weighty thing well, or at least endeavor to do it well. Because of that, we were not able to record Wednesday as we had planned. I wasn't available during the normal window and you won't be available during our Friday window. So you won't be with us. You, you do not have jury duty, but you do have another form of duty.

[A]

Oh boy.

[B]

Different spelling.

[A]

Boy, I, I saw the joke coming. Yeah, but it's like a car moving too fast for you. Get out of the way. Yeah, Yeah. I have to have the world's best timed colonoscopy tomorrow.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Welcome to the colonoscopy club. I am, I'm so excited about this. As people who listen to our bonus pods know.

[A]

Stone cold weirdo, you are just the weirdest weirdo. I, I, I will say if anyone is wondering, like, when will Tareks go get traded? The answer is probably 1pm Pacific tomorrow, when it is maximally inconvenient to me. But I, I'll be, I'll be knocked out. So look forward to learning what the return was for old Tarek. Yeah, everything's fine. You know, don't be concerned listeners. This is more like, hey, you've been having some weird digestive stuff. Let's just, let's just have a look. See, you're, you get to a, you get to a certain age and all of a sudden like, Dawson is dead because of colorectal cancer. And, and then you realize that healthcare providers are your peers because you say that in the meeting and they're like, yeah, we should take a look in there just to make sure everything's on the up and up. So precautionary, precautionary, diagnostic sort of thing. Let me tell you, when it's diagnostic and not a screening, even when you have insurance. Boy, is this the most. I'm going to do a swear and be gross. Sorry. Most expensive I'll ever take in my life, I hope.

[B]

Yeah, well, I have not had that aspect of the experience because mine have been screenings, which I started early, as our Patreon supporters know and probably know too much about too much just because of some predispositions, family history, risk factors, etc, better safe than sorry. And so I'm always an advocate. Do it when you're supposed to, if not before. And, and I find that it gets A bad rap. And yeah, the prep can be annoying. It's a little bit like jury duty in the sense that, you know, it's inconvenience. It definitely does throw a wrench into your schedule. But. But at the end, hopefully you will, you will feel good about it because it's not as bad as you've been warned, maybe. And, and yes, you'll have peace of mind and you will be reassured. Yes. And so hopefully you will have as positive an experience with your clothes.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

As I've had with mine. But we probably won't go into as much detail about yours as I have about mine.

[A]

I will not go into any detail, actually. I will not go into any detail and I'm not going to go into detail off mic with you. Although I will give you my, my grade on the anesthesia because I know that that's actually the part you enjoy, which we don't have time to get into that right now. I will just say that I am currently so hungry and I can't have anything to eat. I am allowed clear liquid. They give you. So, you know, they give you very detailed instructions and you know how sometimes you'll be out in the world and you'll see a sign and you're like, wow, that's for a particular person. Someone goofed this enough times that they felt the need to clarify. And so you are not allowed any food or drink milk or dairy juice with pulps, but you can have clear liquids. Clear liquids. So like I've just been drinking water because also, you know this is going to be a dehydrating experience. It seems like get, get going on the water soon. But, but their definition of clear liquid, it's not clear. You can have all kinds of non clear liquids. They just. Yes, you can have Gatorade, you can have plain jello, you can have pops. This all has to be sugar free though, which is like some of these things where you find in sugar free popsicles. Where are you finding sugar free apple juice? Where are you finding sugar free Kool Aid? By the way, it took took some doing to find sugar free Gatorade that wasn't red or purple because you have to like mix some stuff. We won't go into.

[B]

Got to be clear when they're looking in there or your prep will be for.

[A]

But I got, but I got orange. I got orange. I think that's okay because they specifically say no red or purple. Is that okay? Because they didn't have the sugar free, like whatever the, whatever the cloudy color is I was like, is this cloudy color, do you think the orange is okay or do I have to go get something else?

[B]

I hope so. If it's light orange, maybe. But yeah, now I'm nervous. They're on the side of safety, but as long as there's no, no hard stuff in there, as long as there's no, like actual. Anyway, people probably can do that research on their own though. I'm happy to provide tips because having been through this a couple times, you know, it's always a concern for me, like, how am I gonna get my protein, am I gonna get my calories to have orange?

[A]

It is okay to have orange. This is per the University of North Carolina colonoscopy prep instructions. So I think they, I think that they would know, right? They would know, you know.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of clear protein infused substances that I have found over the years.

[A]

One day don't want to lose my

[B]

gains, you know, it's pretty important. Anyway, continuing on to baseball subjects, even if we don't get into greater detail about your colonoscopy, we will get into great detail about a happier topic, a topic that may be of more interest to listeners to this baseball podcast, which is the fact that there's a new professional baseball league launching in a matter of days. This very weekend, in fact, is the get go is first pitch opening day for the women's Professional baseball League. So we will be talking to Kyrie Oler of Fan Crafts about everything you need to know, where to watch, when to watch, what you will be watching. We're doing a season preview as our second segment on this episode, so stay tuned for that. Also was just talking about my personal experience of the justice system over the past ten days or so. I was reading about how Mark Walter Dodger's owner, may be interacting with the justice system, perhaps in less positive ways. He is under investigation these days for possible financial improprieties. There have been a couple of Wall Street Journal pieces about this lately, and it may or may not end up being anything. It may or may not end up affecting the Dodgers in any tangible way. But there's enough smoke here that I don't know if I'd be sweating were I a Dodgers fan.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Dodgers fans not accustomed really to financial insecurity so much. But if there were anything that were ever going to take down the Dodgers, I guess, like you really have to stretch to come up with scenarios where anything that could really go wrong for the Dodgers. And I remember writing a piece for Grantland, more than a Decade ago. Now, about, okay, how can things go wrong? How could the, this incipient Dodgers dynasty be derailed? And all of that piece, it basically applies as well in 2026 as it did in 2015 or whatever because nothing has happened. They have continued to roll right along. So if you're coming up with scenarios where boy, how could the Dodgers miss the playoffs or not be good again, it's really hard because yeah, it's like, oh, well, all their players get old and slump and get hurt at the same time. I mean, their players are already getting pretty old and getting pretty hurt and they're still the best team in baseball. And as long as they have the financial resources and the smarts and all of that, it's hard to imagine them bottoming out or that bottom being very low for them relative to other teams. But if you could construct some scenario where Mark Walters financial empire is disassembled and he has to sell the team or something like that. If you're a Dodgers hater, maybe you'd be reading these articles with great interest thinking like, oh, is this a house of cards somehow? Is Walter gonna be taken down? Someone who has been well heeled and deep pocketed and seemingly a pretty good owner when it comes to just empowering the right people to make baseball decisions and obviously has a whole sports empire, not just the Dodgers, but also the Lakers and Chelsea, et cetera. So this has a lot of sports implications potentially. And you always have to be skeptical really of any investigation going on these days. And so you never know. Is there some political motivation? What's happening here? Was there political motivation for him showing up at the White House visit last week, potentially trying to slap some palms, grease some wheels, who knows? It's, it's all about who you know these days. I don't know. But basically FBI agents seemingly seized a phone that was related to this organization, which has been ongoing since last year and involves Guggenheim Partners, which is the asset management firm that Walter operates, and the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan. The SEC are examining this too. To quote from the Wall street journal, how around $16 billion in loans extended to companies tied to WA or his conglomerate, TWG Global, wound up on the books of insurance companies he owns after passing through a third entity. And they're trying to determine whether this activity constitutes fraud. So there's a whole private credit industry which has been booming, which is like, you know, use insurance capital to invest in private credit, a form of non bank lending to business or businesses that has grown rapidly. Right. And so there's sort of a suspicion that maybe there's some, I don't know, self dealing or double dealing or something going on here. Basically the insurance companies on the one hand are kind of paying the investment companies billions of dollars and then the investment companies count that as revenue and you have to disclose that. But there was a whistleblower who suggested that maybe it wasn't properly disclosed. And so the, you know, maybe this is a, a bit harkening back to the Enron days and you know, some, some paper on paper shenanigans going on. Obviously I'm not the number one business expert in the world, so tough for me to weigh in on the, these specifics here. But you have to disclose these transactions to insurance regulators to try to limit conflicts of interest and protect the policyholders and everything. And so there's, there's some question about whether that was all done well and whether there were corners cut that may have led to the rapid rise of Walter's businesses. At the same time, it also came out in the course of these investigations that Walter evidently suffered a stroke in 2024 during or around the World Series. Oh yeah. And was somewhat impaired by this, at least in the short term aftermath. And there's at least some reporting here that suggests that there may be continued impairment of various forms. So that's part of the question too. Is he still feeling some after effects of that? Is this related? Right. So all this stuff is sort of swirling. Yeah.

[A]

And they haven't had a change in their control person, right?

[B]

No, no. And, and he was there again when the Dodgers were at the White House and he was, he. He had some short remarks, although there was some confusion, it appeared at the podium about the notes he was reading and Dave Roberts stepped up and intervened, which may or may not be a sign of something going on. So there's all this scrutiny and then there's also scrutiny of Walter specifically to see if he's kind of fully equipped to handle said scrutiny. And you know, the company of course put out boilerplate statements to, to say that there's nothing to see here about welter or about these transactions may well be the case, but maybe more will come out. We will see. I don't know whether this will end up affecting the Dodgers whatsoever. But again, if you were trying to come up with some scenario where the bottom falls out from this team, then I guess it, it would probably have to be based on the viability of these businesses. It's not as if the Dodgers directly are implicated in any of this. It's just they're part of this massive portfolio. Right. And so if, if the portfolio falls apart, then the Dodgers would be divested. Obviously. That's, we're a ways away from anything like that happening. It's just, you know, be aware, monitor the situation.

[A]

It's interesting to me this is as much about the, the specifics of this case as, as any other. And I, I don't want to allege anything about bribes, but it does seem like there is a, the open quid pro quo happening a lot with this administration and various parties of certain business interests. It is interesting to me though that these sort of sport related or adjacent investigations do seem to be a continuing priority for this DOJ in a way that is a little. And it might just be that those sorts of things are high profile and obviously everyone who works for Justice Department isn't a political appointee. Right. Like there are many lawyers that are and investigators who are working there for years and years and years. And these investigations might be ongoing from, from previous times. So, you know, I don't want to get us over our skis. It's just interesting that that continues to seem to be something of a, of an enforcement priority for them at a time when, well, one could say that other things are being let go, you know, that there's less stringent focus. So just an interesting little wrinkle.

[B]

But. And speaking of the Dodgers in the Wall Street Journal, this is the, the on field Dodgers product. Yeah. There is a, a piece the other day about Roki Sasaki and the glove that he's using. I don't think this was exclusively reported by the Wall Street Journal. It was covered elsewhere. But the framing in the Journal piece, the headline is, the pitching phenom rescued by a cartoonishly large glove.

[A]

It is a big ass glove, man.

[B]

It's a big glove.

[A]

It is honking glove.

[B]

Yes. And the piece says earlier this month, this is the lead. The Los Angeles Donners finally diagnosed the problem that had been plaguing Roki Sasaki ever since he arrived from Japan last year. Turned out that the pitching phenom who had been seemingly unhittable back home, was tipping his pitches unknowingly, letting hitters know what was coming through a tick in his setup or delivery. One way to resolve his mechanical flaw would have been for Sasaki to completely overhaul the mechanics he had been using his entire life in the middle of a pennant race. Instead, the Dodgers opted for a simpler solution. They gave him a comically huge glove and it appears to have transformed Sasaki into The untouchable flamethrower he was always supposed to be. It goes on to make some other similarly bold claims, I would say, about the, the cause and effect here between the glove and Roki's recent performance. So I am the world's number one pitch tipping skeptic. Checking in here, logging on. And I just, I don't buy that this has been the only thing plaguing him or that this has been completely corrected his problems. He's coming off of a couple strong starts post All Star break, both In New York, one against the Yankees, one against the Mets. One he went 5 1/2 against the Yankees, gave up one run, none earned, struck out five the next time out against the Mets, seven innings, one run, nine strikeouts. It's been good. He's. He's had a couple strong starts in a row. And it does seem that this be related in part to pitch tipping. The glove reportedly is legal. Right. Because there are rules about this. Gloves that measure more than 13 inches long and 7 1/4 inches wide are prohibited. And this one evidently has been deemed compliant. So it may be cartoonishly or comically large, but not illegally large.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But, and I guess the idea is, is that the, the glove is bigger, it helps him conceal the ball. So if he is doing something as he is setting up and someone's peering in from second base or something or wherever. Right. He is able to hide it from more angles and people can't see how he's gripping it or whatever else he may have been doing. And the Dodgers coaches and Dave Roberts, they've been a bit cagey about exactly why this was and they were kind of playing dumb and being, oh, does he have a new glove? I hadn't noticed. Or, you know, I wonder that is so. But it does appear that this was maybe related to some pitch tipping problems that he may have had immediately leading up to the break. But I'm skeptical for a few reasons. Just my general baseline skepticism of pitch tipping and quite how prevalent it is and quite how easy it is to pick up on and quite how determinative it is. But also know it's two starts so far.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's pump the brakes a bit. He, he has had consecutive strong starts before. I mean, I was looking at the fan graphs, player graphs, and I just put in his two game rolling war. So it just, it graphs his WAR total over the previous two games for each two game stretch of his career. And you know, obviously he was in the bullpen at times and everything, but so over his past two start post break, his two starts amassed 04 WAR. But his two starts leading up to June 5th and his two starts leading up to May 23rd were worth five and six WAR, respectively. So this is his third best two start stretch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Of his MLB career or this season specifically. Both are true. So I'm not making too much of this yet. Like May 30 and June 5, he had two even stronger starts. One against the Phillies, one against the Angels, and then his two starts earlier. And I remember I, I even quizzed you. I was like, who was the. The most effective Dodger starter? And maybe it was May, maybe it was June, I forget. But it was Roki. He had been their most valuable pitcher for that month on the staff. So, like, he's had some stretches of effectiveness before. So May 17 and May 23, he had a couple strong starts, one against the Angels, one against the Brewers. I guess both of those previous stretches involved the Angels, so maybe they're. Maybe that's the secret to his success. Pitch against the Angels can't hurt. But, you know, until he at least has an unprecedented run of success with the big glove, I'm not gonna buy that I was the big glove all along that was causing his issues because, like, clearly there was more going on there, right? I mean, and mechanically, he was sort of screwed up. Like the V wasn't there that we were accustomed to seeing, the command clearly wasn't there. And maybe pitch dipping issues could exacerbate that if someone knows what's coming and they're less inclined to chase or something. But there was more going on there, right? And. And he also said that he made some mechanical adjustments, I think, over the break or leading into these last couple starts. And his speed has ticked up a bit too. Like his. His first start after the break, he had the highest average and max four seam velo of any start this season. So, like, the stuff has been a bit better too. So I, I think it's a little over simplistic to say big glove, he is fixed. He's now the phenom we were all expecting. Right.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I hope he can continue to pitch well because I, I have been a bit disappointed by the growing pains and the rough start to his MLB career. I was pretty excited for him to come over here, so I think there's more. But I hope whatever he has to figure out or had to figure out, that that will happen.

[A]

Yeah, I think that it would be very convenient if the glove on its own was enough to sort of cure what ails him? It doesn't seem likely for all the reasons that you said, but we've seen him start to make adjustments, albeit in fits and starts. And so I am more optimistic that he'll sort things out. But yeah, it's not gonna just be the glove. There was sort of people are like, oh, is that glove legal? I'm like, the can see it. They can, they can see the big ass glove. Like you inspect their gloves, get inspected all the time. Like there's a, there's no chicanery, there's no, there's no shenanigans at play with the glove. It looks ridiculous, but sometimes one has to, you know, look a little silly to be good at your job.

[B]

And speaking of high profile players from Japan who have come over and have maybe not quite met expectations, that's been a bad thing for rookie it's been a good thing for Munetaka Murakami, who continues to rake. Obviously returned from the long layoff and the injury. And I saw a [e-mail] by David Adler this week and he noted that one of the big questions for Murakami coming over was can he hit MLB caliber Velo?

[C]

Right?

[B]

Because in, in small samples against high speed pitches in npb he had struggled with that and thus far he has. And in fact, when David ran these numbers, he found that the highest OPS in baseball versus 97 mile per hour pitches this season, Munetaka Murakami number one with a 1249 OPS against those pitches leading Yordon Alvarez and Juan Soto. So if anything, not only has it not been a pronounced weakness, but maybe it's been a strength. So like, great, clearly the whiffs are there, the strikeouts are there. Absolutely. But also it seems like he can hit Velo and more importantly, he can hit everything very hard. And even if he doesn't make that much contact, he really makes that contact count. And also he's got the plate discipline, which is the extra component that makes this work because he can, he can sort of fade the high strikeout rate because he has the high walk rate as well. And so it's, it's the ultimate three true outcomes profile and it's super extreme. And there's still, I suppose, some doubt about whether it's sustainable in the long run. But 72 or so games into his big league career, 300 plus plate appearances to enter games on Thursday with a 155 WRC plus. I mean it's pretty good. It's, it's one of my favorite storylines of the season. And I'm. I'm sort of sad that he missed a month with that injury because I. Yeah. You know, I wanted the greater confidence of the sample and for it to be an even more convincing win for him, I suppose. And that's going to tamp down the total value, obviously, but if he can keep up at least the performance on a rate basis, boy, that's a big win. And there have to be a bunch of teams that are kicking themselves for doubting him as they did.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, it's funny because, like, one of the other things that was a concern was that he had an injury history. Like, in some ways he has been. He's been exactly what we thought he would be. He's just, to your point, had some important, some important deviations and also has kind of been able to hold it all together. It's great. When they made that signing, we said at the time, like, this is the exact kind of play that a team like the White Sox should be making. Because the upside here is tremendous if he's able to actualize it. And so far that's, that's what he's been able to do. It's really cool. And he also just seems like a delight. You know, he's got just a really delightful, charismatic sort of on field personality. He seems to be well liked by his teammates. Like, it's just a fun, cool story. And I don't know, the White Sox fans deserve, deserve to have something good happen to them, you know.

[B]

Yeah. And, and obviously defensively, speed wise, base running wise, he's not giving you a whole lot, so that limits his overall value. But, but you want a masher, well, that's exactly what he has delivered, so you can match. And I was, I was semi bullish just based on the early track record of, hey, this guy was a historically great hitter at an early age in a league. And there were certainly causes for concern, but it does go to show, I, I guess, you know, we should probably do a whole postmortem what was mis evaluated if he is able to sustain this for the whole season. But I guess it's the dangers of sample and how many pitches were people actually looking at and extrapolating from. But also, players can adapt and, and that was my hope that, hey, this guy was so good, so young that maybe he can just kind of up his game. Like if he knows he's going to be facing this sort of speed, which was a large leap to be like, well, he, he's just not trying as hard as he could to hit really hard pitches. You know, maybe that would have seemed like wishcasting at the time, but also like clearly he's made some changes and he's in a different league and so he can be a different player. And if he knows that he's going to be facing speed like that routinely, then maybe he can make some changes to take advantage of that or, or at least to ameliorate the weakness. So sometimes you bet on the talent and, and hope for the best. But yeah, the way that his stock fell just over the course of the winter, seemingly where all the predictions for what he was going to make and then the actual short term fairly low dollar deal, that was just pretty shocking. So I don't know, maybe the better number would have been somewhere in between the most breathless projections and what teams talk themselves into actually offering.

[A]

Well, and it is interesting because I think that there's like a, you know, a perception that there was maybe like an, an overreaction to small samples. I think the responsible versions of that analysis caveated the, the size of the sample.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And also made mention of the injury history. Right. That that was important context for his down years too, that this was not a guy who seemed like he was fully healthy and he obviously missed big stretches of time. So you're taking an already small sample against say the high velocity and you're reducing it further. But it is interesting to me that teams seemed to be largely in agreement with some version of that public analysis. Right. Because he didn't get a big offer, he didn't get big deals, he settled for this which is shorter term and, and the White Sox were in a position to sort of take advantage of that consensus which doesn't mean that the consensus was right and he's just having a fluky 70 odd game stretch of outperformance. It just is interesting that there does seem to be alignment there when presumably the team side folks are operating with at least more information. Right. And have access to more information even if it's more limited than what you would get from a free agent who has had gone through, you know, the major league system. So that part of it's interesting to me that there was an under evaluation that seems to have been persistent because I don't think that like teams aren't just looking at our free agent rankings being like well guess we got a pass, you know, like they're doing their own diligence on, on all of these guys and especially when you have someone who has such a compelling tool as his best one you would think that there would have been some more interest. Maybe he's just really enthusiastic about Chicago. You know, we don't know. It could have just been like, look, this is, this is where I want to be. No, no less a luminary than Rock Chaluski. I'm never gonna. I'm never gonna let him. I'm never gonna let him live it down. He talked about Rock, talked about just really falling in love with Chicago when he met with the White Sox. And that was part of why he was so excited to join the organization. So it's a great American city.

[B]

Of course. Yeah. All right. Well, another thing to continue to track and delight in and, and usual caveats apply about OPS versus pitches above a certain speed. Some of those stats can get awkward sometimes because it's like, you know, if you put it in play. Right. I mean, there's all kinds of caveats with that. And also, it's still a smallish sample. In Adler's article, he had another leaderboard that was highest slugging percentage against 97 mile per hour plus pitches. And Murakami is number one on that list too at 792. Number two is Dalen Lyle, who, you know, I mean, fun player and all, but he has a 90 WRC plus this year. So that's not a guarantee that you're going to be great. But then it's Soto and Kim and Arrow and Jordan and James Wood and other hard hitters. So, you know, most of the names. Pretty, pretty good hitters. It's just there's still sort of a sample issue.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Okay. Elsewhere in the AL Central. So of course, all eyes are on Terex Google, who had what could turn out to have been his final start as a Tiger. We will see. We've talked about that. We will talk about that. But really, everyone was talking about the squirrel in Detroit. The squirrel was the star of this week. The squirrel was just a delight, really. And it's. It's not new for animals to insert themselves into baseball games or even for a black squirrel in Detroit to do so. This has happened before. Precedented, yes, but this one was a long lasting saga. It was Monday when the Orioles were playing the Tigers at Comerica and this lasted for about a full inning where the squirrel was scampering around and it was on the warning track and they couldn't get rid of it and it was in left field and then it was here and then it was there and, and players were getting involved and the squirrel encountered a bird briefly in passing and all of the animal kingdom was getting to know each other. And of course, it worked out so well that Jason Benetti was calling this. The chase for the squirrel is on. And the squirrel is in the corner. And the squirrel is still eluding an entire horde of grounds crew members. And the squirrel's free once again. Hemmed in. No, I won't be hemmed in. I have freedom on my mind. Trying to go between the legs. And eventually he gets away again and hops through the towel and hops through another towel. The force field is activated. Towels can't stop him. Or maybe they can. The loud boo you just heard was for the Keystone cops routine of 20 odd members of the Tigers grounds crew. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to thank the grounds crew. Let's give them a round of applause. The Detroit Tigers grounds crew.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

That's Bill Miller, the crew chief. It was just, just got on his mic to thank the grounds crew and got booed. It took 67 of them to catch one squirrel. Jason's talents are wasted on baseball. He should be, he should be calling squirrel corralling or something, which sounds like, you know, it would be on ESPN18 or whatever during the pandemic. But like, this is, you know, and then the grounds crew came out and the entire grounds crew, I mean, it was like 17 people. It was like, oh yeah, it was like the number of, of kids shagging flies on the field during the home run Derby. It was at least that many grounds crew members. It was like more grounds crew members than I, I knew existed. You know, just everywhere, all hands on deck sort of situation, and the squirrel was still evading them. And then Leoti Tavares got involved, Orioles outfielder, and kind of got a hand on the squirrel, but then was sort of playing hot potato and, and tossed the squirrel away. And like, you know, people were, were hesitant to touch the squirrel. And so, you know, you want the squirrel to be okay. Which, to be clear, reportedly the squirrel is fine. I would imagine perhaps somewhat traumatized by this experience in the short term, but hopefully no ill effects, no lasting effects. But I'll link to the full video of, of Benetti's call of this squirrel adventure. But it was, it was pretty great. I mean, it, it went on so long and it was kind of a comedy of, of errors with everyone. It's tough to, to corral a squirrel. I guess. It was like, you know, I think Benetti even invoked like Rocky chasing chickens. I mean, it was, it was nuts. It just kept going and going and going.

[A]

It kept Going and going and going. And it's like, what is the. What's the. What's the plan? You know? Like, what is the. Where.

[B]

Where did it.

[A]

First of all, where did it come from? The squirrel. Also, how do you know you're gonna. When you get it out of there, that it's not just gonna come right back? You're like. You're, like, counting on it being traumatic. You're counting on the trauma, which is. But then they're, like, trying to grab it, and I'm like, what are you gonna. It's gonna bite you. Like, it's a squirrel.

[B]

It could. Yeah. And it feels threatened. It's being chased and within its.

[A]

Within its rights to clear. Not a criticism of our friend the squirrel, because, like, I'd bite you if you were, like, grabbing me with your glove and tossing me. I thought that Leoti's reaction was completely understandable, but it's like, hey, buddy, let the. No offense to the grounds crew. I'm not saying they're expendable, but also let them. Let them deal with the critters. Let them. You don't need to be. You know, that would be a bad way to land on the injured list. And they can't tell if things are rabid until they can tell, so you just got to get the shots, you know? Yeah, you got. And those are. I'm given to understand those are painful.

[B]

Yeah, I. I had. I went through the. The rabies regimen when I was a kid. Yeah. Because there was a bat that was loose. Oh. In a house in the Adirondacks where I was staying, my grandma's house. And I. I wasn't aware that it had bitten me or anything, but we didn't know that it hadn't, and so it was just, again, a better safe than sorry thing.

[A]

Well. And as the signs in my freshman year dorm at Bryn Mawr will tell you, if you're symptomatic, it's too late. There were bats in. Shout out to the Breckenheads. Listening. There were bats in Brecon, and they would tell you to alert public safety if you saw one. And then they would say, it's important because you don't always know if you've been bitten by a bat. And if you're symptomatic for rabies, it's too late. They can't do anything for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is a really funny thing to put up. Just like you're walking in, you're like, oh, what is the Blue Bless Blue bus schedule for this week?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it reminded me a little. Grumpkin is the bestest and cutest and sweetest, of course, but there, there are moments when she morphs into a, a non domesticated dog on rare occasions. So she doesn't have any issue with like, aggression or protectiveness when it comes to food. Typically, like, you know, food. And she has no problem. You can walk around her dish or do whatever, right? Or she's chewing a bone or something. There's no apprehensiveness and, and she would never hurt us. She never has. We're not worried about that or anything, but, but she won't even make a show of that. Like some, some normally mild mannered dogs. It's just, you know, a switch flips, right? And suddenly they kind of regress, you know, and, and there's food in the picture and they want to protect it. The only time that happens with Grumpkin is when she manages to steal some food somehow. Like, Sloan will drop some food or something and Grumpkin will, will claim it kind of in a pizza rat style way. Grumpkin's not much bigger than this, this squirrel, and she's sort of the same coloring. I mean, she's about £10, so it's somewhat reminiscent. And like the other day, Sloane dropped about half an apple. And when Grumpkin claims a prize like that that she knows she's not supposed to have, she is very reluctant to relinquish it. And so she, she sunk her disproportionately powerful jaws into this apple, and we could not get it away from her, whatever we did. And, and you know, she makes a little bit of a show of growling and everything, and we, we don't think she actually would hurt us, but, like, it's pretty convincing, you know? And then you remember, oh, right, this, this dachshund is descended wolf. This is actually a hound dog. This is a predator, right? And that, that comes out and we're a bit wary about, you know, this sweet creature that we, we share a bed with every night, and suddenly it's like, whoa, okay. And, and what we did when this happened, and she had this apple and refused to, to hand it over ultimately, like we were. I, I got some oven mitts and I was trying to, I, I double oven mitted into my hands just to be safe, and I was trying to get it out of her mouth, mouth, and I could not because her teeth, her fangs were sunk into this apple and she just would not let it go. And Jesse had a brilliant epiphany. And we, we wrapped her up in a towel and we put her into the bathtub and she, she does not care for. For baths. And, and we put on the shower and sprinkled her with the water. And immediately she was so discomfited by that that she dropped the up apple and. And that was that. Yeah, and she just went back. I mean, she's like Bruce Banner, you know, Jekyll and Hyde, whatever, like. And immediately the water sprayed on her, she dropped the apple, we brought her out of the bathtub and she was back to being her usual wonderful self. But, but that's now our, our protocol for if and when that happens again. We're not even going to try to grab it out of her mouth. We're just gonna put the shower on and maybe she'll, you know, get a little rinse. That wouldn't be the worst thing either. But maybe that's what they should have done once they actually got their hands on the squirrel, you know, give it a little shower. But I guess it was more about getting it away from the field. But I sympathize with Leot Tavares, who was a little bit apprehensive about handling the squirrel.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Incredibly, incredibly understandable reaction.

[B]

Is baseball the best sport when it comes to animal interactions in game? I don't want to be all. Almost certainly it has to be right. And maybe, maybe this is a new entry for our baseball exceptionalism list. But because of the setting, I know it's not unique to baseball, but it. Because it's mostly open air and outdoors and grassy and everything. And they're the bowels of these ballparks where whatever wild cats lurk, you know, I mean, possums and cats and squirrels and all manner of animals, not to mention birds. It's gotta be just the most for any prominent sport, like routine interactions with wildlife in addition to bat dogs and such who are sort of authorized to be there. But like, I can't think of. There might be isolated incidents certainly in other sports. And I'm sure, you know, cricket and soccer, I'm sure there are all sorts of rugby. There must be other examples, but it's pretty routine. This was a protracted example, but we're not at all surprised to see, oh, the game stopped because there's a squirrel running around or, you know, or birds interacting with balls to their detriment. Typically cats, sometimes cats. Right. Y.

[A]

Sometimes there's. And I can't think of a place that a cat belongs less than a ballpark. Although there are a number of the complexes in the valley here, like, sort of have strays they take care of.

[B]

The coliseum had the feral cats. Right?

[A]

Right. Yeah, we have a. We have a big feral cat problem in the valley. It's a problem, and you just want to get them all inside, you know, because it's so hot.

[B]

Yeah, it's. It's like, look, we gotta get the game going. And so. But also, you feel bad for the creature, which is not really conscious that it's interrupting a big spectator experience. That self preservation kicks in and.

[A]

And the creature doesn't want to be there either. You know, like, that's the thing. Like, that animal finds its way, and then it's like, oh, I've made a terrible mistake.

[C]

I gotta get out of here.

[A]

But you can't. Can't speak to them. You can't make them understand. Like, hey, you should just let us move you gently and then it'll be okay. It's like, no, I'm gonna bite you now.

[B]

Yeah, but it's. It's nice. It's a fun diversion because it's not like a human streaker, where it's just like, hey, you're not the show here. Right. And also, there's a concern about safety, where you never know what that person's intentions are, and they're just seeking attention and delaying everyone. And look, have I at times been entertained by a streaker who is particularly comedic in some way or manages to elude security for some time? Yeah, sure. But also, most of the time it's just like, hey, get out of the way so we can keep playing. But when a creature, when a animal of some sort does it, and they're not motivated by the same sort of base desires, then. Then you can't help but be charmed by it, typically. And there's still something of a safety concern, whether for the players and personnel or. Or the animal itself. But it is really nice. It's like, you know, because there's a divide. Roger angel used to write about this. Like, the players are more remote than they were at a. At a certain time when they didn't make as much money relative to the typical person. My mom talks about growing up in Brooklyn and. And Gil Hodges lived just around the corner. And, like, you just see him around and his family and, like, people would come up and ask him for autograph, drive around and honk when the Dodgers were winning or whatever. And it was like, you know, you could be part of the neighborhood. You weren't in a completely separate stratum of society.

[A]

Whereas in a helicopter to practice.

[B]

Right. Whereas many professional athletes now, even if they're in a much lower income bracket than the billionaire owners, they're still in a much higher income bracket than most of us. And so it's somewhat remote. Right. And you know, there's screens around the field as there should be for safety, but it's just you don't feel quite as close to them, maybe in some respects, but the animals can, can breach that barrier and they can just interrupt these proceedings with these extremely well paid people that millions of people might be watching. The raccoon doesn't care. You know, the squirrels doesn't. Isn't impressed by any of that. And they will just blithely wander onto the field and then we all just have to wait while they take their sweet time.

[A]

Do you ever think about how they're all streaking?

[B]

That's true.

[A]

You know, every animal. Every animal is a streaker.

[B]

Unless fur counts. It's. Yeah. I mean, they have built in.

[A]

They're. They're nude as their nudity under. It's not like we're all hairless under there as we covered last episode, especially if you're Italian. It's probably sprouting out from everywhere. Yeah. So they're all, they're all nude.

[B]

Nude.

[A]

You know, they're not purposefully nude. You know, they're not engaged in a practiced nudity. They're animals. They don't know about that. But they're all strictures. Yeah, yeah. They're all in the state of nature. And then, and then you have an animal in the field and you have a mascot on the dugout and you're like, hey, see how some of your stuff lines up? Why isn't the mascot wearing paint pants? You know, that's another thing you think about sometimes. Or at least I do.

[B]

Yes. And Tiger's mascot, Pause was, I think, holding up a sign that said free the squirrel. So Pause was getting involved.

[A]

Pause doesn't wear pants either, does he?

[B]

Does Pause wear pants? No. Pause wears a jersey, but I don't think wears pants.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're. They're always. They're. They're all Winnie the Poohing it out here, you know, and it's like there are children around and it would. Again, again, this is all fine because it's not real. I mean, it's real. Like Pause is real. He's not a real creature, but he exists as a thing in the world. Right. He's not imaginary. We're not hallucinating. Pause. Paws styled all caps. Okay, well, we're not going to do a full Meg's mascot corner segment here, but I am just pointing out know what's that about? What's. What's with the all caps pause

[B]

colonoscopies and mascots. But I don't know how this all ties into the Jimothy phenomenon. It seems somewhat related somehow because I know that multiple teams have capitalized on Jimothy and his newfound celebrity.

[A]

And I'm here to say, keep Jimothy out of your mouth. Okay? The only teen that gets to capitalize on Jiminy Jimothy is the Mariner is from Seattle. He's a Seattle based raccoon.

[B]

Yes, yes. This is the. The viral raccoon who seems to have short spine syndrome.

[A]

We hope. We hope he's not viral, to be clear. Well, yes, that is one of the things we hope for Jim.

[B]

A distinctive appearance and so has catapulted him to Internet celebrity. And so multiple teams are. Are cashing in on the Jimothy phenomenon, including the Mariners. Right. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So T Mobile is hosting a Jimothy night. This is next Wednesday. The first 20,000 fans will take home a Jimothy rookie card and there's also a Jimothy T shirt. They've really swung into action with the Jimothy marketing campaign capitalizing on this quickly. But. And maybe this is what you're alluding to, the rocket city trash pandas, who I guess have some claim to. To pilot to, you know, hopping on the Jimothy. They're doing a Jimothy Night on August 4th as well with a raccoon parade and a Jimothy mask.

[A]

What does that mean? A raccoon parade? Not of actual raccoons. Right?

[B]

No, but if you dress up as a raccoon Somehow Andrew McCutcheon will show up for this game. I'm just about to say contingent.

[A]

Watch out, you guys. Watch out.

[B]

And they're serving food and drink out of trash cans. I mean, if you're the Rocket city trash pandas, I guess, and a raccoon goes viral, they don't get natural.

[A]

Maybe Raccoon.

[B]

Yeah, they don't have.

[A]

No, I'm sorry, they don't have blanket rights to the concept of a raccoon. Okay.

[B]

If.

[A]

No, there are a lot of bobcats. It's not like if there was a cute bobcat that the Diamondbacks Just get that bobcat. If that bobcat isn't proximate to Phoenix. No, no, you don't. You don't get to. It's. You don't get to. It's not like you get to lick the concept of raccoons and then put it on the shelf and be like, well, hope I get to use that sometimes. Day, no. That raccoon is not in your jurisdiction. That is not a local. That's not a locally sourced raccoon. Okay? It's not a local that Jimothy belongs to Seattle. It's. You need to let them have this. It's not going well. Okay. We're very. It's a very frustrating baseball team right now. I just would invite Randy Rosarina to consider that he is not a good baserunner and he should stop trying to steal. Deal. Because it doesn't go well. My God. Can't play this slop ass baseball against the freaking Dodgers, okay? You can't play slotball against the Dodgers. They're the Dodgers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It sucks to be watching the Mariners play the Dodgers and you have the Dodgers broadcast on it. Doesn't matter why. And I don't know who's in the booth with Joe Davis because I didn't turn it on right away. And it sucks when the other team's announcers is like. Are like, wow, wow. He really shouldn't throw anything in the zone until these Mariners can show that they can lay off. And I'm like, he's right about that. He should throw in the zone. They're gonna hack and hack and hack and they did, Ben. They did. It's embarrassing. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, well, the squirrel may turn out to be the second most exciting rookie debut for the Tigers this week.

[A]

We haven't talked about scubal this entire time.

[B]

Well, what is there to say that we haven't said or that there won't be to say so soon? But. But Max Clark is coming up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tigers top prospect outfielder. And. And people have been trying to read the tea leaves here. Does this mean something? Does this, you know, doing mashed potatoes from close encounters. Does this tell us anything about the likelihood that's so great right now will be traded? I don't know if it does. Do you think this. This means anything? If you're trying to assess the likelihood of a. A Schuylkill trade that they called up their top prospect?

[A]

Sorry, I'm distracted by how much I want mashed potatoes. Oh, man. I really want some mashed potatoes. Potatoes are. Surely mashed potatoes would be fine. No, I know they're not.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, I want a snack so bad. Sorry. Really distracted. I love food so much. I guess maybe it serves as a reminder that like, hey, there's, there's, there are good parts of this team. Even though that extra innings loss was really brutal. I had that game on and I was just like, you guys, you gotta win or you're not gonna get to keep Scoobs. Like, the stakes are so high.

[B]

I know.

[A]

They're so high. I. Okay, so what are we. What are we really talking about? As we're recording here. As we're recording here on Thursday. The Tigers currently sit four and a half games out of the third wild card. They would have to bypass the Orioles, who they lost to Miracle. The Mariners, who suck so mad at this baseball team. Doesn't matter. The Astros, who have been playing like, reasonably good baseball lately, which is so annoying. And the Twins, who are winning in dramatic fashion all the time. And. And that's just, that's just the teams ahead of them that are outside of the wild card picture. Right. So on the one hand, does it make any sense for them to hold on to school?

[B]

No.

[A]

If they're blown away by an offer, they should, they should trade him. Maybe they shouldn't though. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, and they're six out in the central. I mean, yeah, we sort of assessed that last time or. And we will know soon enough. But does the fact that they called up Clark signal anything in your mind? I mean, the. I don't know either. Like the idea that, oh well, they, they wouldn't have started his service clock or something if they weren't going for it. Right? Like, if you don't see yourself as a contender, why do you call up the 21 year old top prospect? But then again, maybe he's just ready. Right? So. Or they could still trade Scubal and have some hope of contending. Regardless, that happened a couple years ago where they dealt people away and then they had a. A miraculous comeback. So I don't know.

[A]

It's. It is interesting because I guess they did put Carrie Carpenter on the IL and that's. But I don't know. And then you. Baez is back.

[C]

Great.

[A]

Glaber. Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know that. That those are necessarily linked moves with

[B]

each other, but it's exciting nonetheless.

[A]

It's exciting.

[B]

And if you lose school, then at least you can console yourself with the squirrel. And also, hey, Max. Clark. That's fun. That's something to watch for. Plus whatever prospect haul you would get for Skubal. So we will see whether teams guard their prospects like Grumpkin's food guarding, but with actual humans. And. And of course, you know, man plans, God laughs, whatever stuff happens. We spent a large part of the last episode breaking down the Mead for early deal and then Mead himself broke immediately, immediately, immediately got hit by a pitch, fractured his wrist. They're saying six to eight weeks, which means he could be done for the regular season. Your big acquisition that you got to bolster your hopes, BP just debuted a new fancy tool called the injured list triage tool, which I'm watching the pit. I'm very much in a triage mindset. And this thing allows you to look up. Up the time it's taken on average for players to return from any specific injury. So for example, if I look up hitters who have had a wrist fracture and they're not all created equal, but the mean slash median number of days missed or games missed for that injury, there's Gmkin is that was. That was her ear flap in case you're wondering. Helicopter thing with her long flappy ears.

[A]

To leave. You gotta leave it in.

[B]

We will. 38 is the mean and median number of games missed for a wrist fracture for a hitter. The Sox have 55 games left. So you know, he doesn't have to have surgery, it sounds like which is good. But that's. And obviously he's under team control for years as is early. So it's. It's not like this swings the balance that much. But a big part of why you acquired him is that you did want some help from a hitter for this season and now they're just not going to get it, at least for most of the time that we're expecting to. So, you know, we analyze all this stuff and then a guy plays one game and he's gone for. For weeks. So that tells you a little bit, I guess, about why teams are wary of paying a lot for rental players because you never know they could get hurt. We thought it was early the one with an injury concern. Turns out that it was actually Mead, who knew. And if he hadn't been traded, he probably wouldn't have had his wrist in the way of that pitch and he'd probably be sailing along for the Nationals. So unfortunate for him that it worked out that way. But we will see. And after you recuperate and convalesce from your colonoscopy, we will of course be back with a full episode recap of whatever does go down at the deadline early next week, after the dust settles, after the various posts and traffic that you will be directing, we will probably devote it a full episode to talking about trades that were made or were not made. Probably Tuesday, right? Monday's Monday evening, the deadline. So, yeah, we'll probably talk Tuesday about whatever happens or doesn't. And, you know, I hope that all the Phillies, the various Phillies just find a way to get along. I hope that Bryce Harper's happy and Dave Debraski's happy and Don Manningly's happy, because those guys don't seem to love each other right now. It's such a silly controversy. I mean, as many Phillies controversies are, but it's like, what a weird season. I mean, they start ice cold, manager gets fired, then they're red hot. Then now they're somewhere in between where they've been scuffling lately, and they've got great pitching, and they certainly need help on the hitting side. And Bryce Harper committed the great sin of acknowledging that reality. It's not as if he said something super inflammatory, right? I mean, he just said, I think we need some help. I think we've proved pretty much all year we've done a pretty good job, but anytime you can get some help in here and reinforcements, I think it helps. Pretty innocuous. And then he was asked if they need pitching or hitting. He said, I don't know. We'll see. I mean, that's a Dave question. So he. He did defer to the person who's actually making that decision. And Matt Gelb wrote a good piece about this for the Athletic and made it pretty clear. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of love lost between Harley Harper and Dombrowski. Right. After Debraski's comments last year about whether Harper's elite or not anymore. And then Mattingly, who's interim manager, I think he kind of inflamed this situation totally. Right? I mean, he could have just shrugged off, oh, Harper's competitive. He just. He wants to win. Of course, every player wants reinforcements or wants the roster to be the best it can be, Right? And Right. Could Harper have been. Been. I mean, I. Could he have said, hey, I believe in our guys and whatever Dave does? Or, yeah, I guess it could have been even more innocuous, but wasn't particularly inflammatory. And it's not an uncommon position for players to hold. Hey, I hope we get reinforcements at the deadline. But Mattingly, I. I think he said when asked about upgrades and stuff, I sense Bryce is thinking about it. I don't really sense anybody else thinking about it. Honestly, guys want to be GMs without a real understanding of where the organization is, exactly where this thing Goes not only this year, but moving forward. Players like being GMs and making calls and spending other people's money. So I just let it go at that. Well, you should have let it go before that, I think. I mean, Dave's been doing this for a while. He's never really backed away from trying to get guys, we're trying to get better. We're going to try to get better at the deadline. Sure. All true. Probably players are playing gm. They all want to make moves. They're not thinking long term. That's why you have a pobo or a GM or whatever. But it's kind of. Of calling out your franchise star unnecessarily, it seems to me.

[A]

Yeah. And also like, I'm sorry, man. Like, you can't be leaving pictures in that long and then get huffy about your. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. You're watching them and you're like, is his son going to have to fire him? Like, is that what we're headed toward? Is, is Preston going to have to. I imagine Dave has that conversation, right. They don't make his son fire him.

[B]

Hopefully Bryce is Bryce. Mattingly said he's going to say what he wants. I'm not really concerned about it. I take it kind of with a grain of salt. And knowing how players are over the years, it's not the first time I've heard this exactly Right. I always look at it like, internally, I got to get better. We got to get better. Simple as that. Maybe it's just not the best choice at words. Maybe this is a nothing burger. It's just. It's not like Harper was calling out any specific player and saying, like, this guy sucks. We got to replace him, or. Or tampering or something, or telling Debraski what to do. It's just kind of boilerplate. You know, any contending team wants to get better. Right. So, I don't know. I mean, acknowledging that there's some weakness doesn't seem like just breaking the ometa or something, that you really have to give him a slap on the wrist for that. Anyway, the whole thing's. I mean, clearly there's like some. Some bitterness, some lingering bad blood there, and these guys have to try to get along because they're under contract for a while longer. But at the Phillies, like, you know, they. They have holes, they have needs, and it's an old team and. And they're very much in the window where they have to go for it. And DOMROWSKI, that's his M.O. typically. So I will be curious. I mean, it would have helped them if they had gotten more contributions from younger guys like Crawford and Painter. That would be big. And so now it's like, well, will they trade their top prospects with an eye towards short term improvement and just totally punt on the future?

[A]

Yeah, but their best prospect is injured.

[B]

Yeah, that's a problem too.

[A]

They're in a weird spot where they're kind of getting. They're suffering doubly because some of their problems would presumably be solved by a like fully operational and healthy Aiden Miller. Because trade Turner is just not a big league shortstop anymore. Probably hasn't been for a minute. And it's like if you had those sort of prospect pipeline, you were hoping you can shuffle that guy off to the outfield and it's fine because you want the bat. I mean, he. What a weird season anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But Miller's hurt. And so not only can you not sub him in to play short in place of Trey Turner, you also can't leverage him to get big league help because who's trading for him right now? Yep, probably.

[B]

All right, well, all will be revealed in a few days and much will be revealed in a few seconds and minutes about the Women's Professional Baseball League which launches this weekend. Kiri Oehler joins us to tell us about it now.

[C]

Sometimes I still feel like that little girl hearing grandma's handheld radio collecting baseball cards before I could read. They say I waste my time tracking all these stat lines, but it's here I found my kind.

[B]

Well, I know that we're all consumed by pre trade deadline 12 trade speculation and much of this weekend will be consumed by MLB rumors. But let us not forget that there is an entirely new professional baseball league launching this weekend. First pitch opening day of the Women's Professional Baseball League will be on Saturday. And we know now how to watch it, which is also pretty important. Covering the league has been and will be Kiri Oehler, who has been writing about the WPBL since it was announced for fan graphs and has previously appeared on the podcast to talk about it. But we know much more about it now. So it's time to preview the season with Kiri. Welcome back.

[C]

Thank you. Delighted to be here.

[B]

So we last talked about this or first talked about this about a year and a half ago in January of 2025. The league had been announced, but much of the details, it was all pretty much up in the air. Right. We didn't know when they would be playing and who and where and how Many teams and we now have answers to most or all of those questions. Hopefully all. It's two days away from first pitch, although cutting it close with some of them. But a lot of the things that we were wondering at the time we now know so we can sort of set up the season. Do you want to just lay out the broad strokes here? Just the basics. If people have not been following this and are wondering what is this women's professional baseball league that everyone's suddenly talking about? What's the structure of the league? What's the schedule? Where are they playing, who's playing? I'm sure we'll have follow ups, but you can launch into some broad strokes, right?

[C]

Yeah. So there are four teams and the four teams for this season anyways, they represent cities but they will not be playing in those cities just yet. The goal right now is to play in those cities next year. For this year they'll be playing at Robin Roberts stadium in Springfield, Illinois. So all of the games will be in that one location. There are 30 games total this season. So each team is playing 15 games games. The games are mostly on the weekends from like Thursday to Sunday. It'll be a six week regular season and then a two week post season. So all four teams will participate in the post season. In the semifinal round there'll be a three game series and then the finals will be a five game series. So that'll be around the the back half of September.

[A]

And are there any differences in sort of the format of play that potential fans of the league should be aware of?

[C]

Yeah. So if you're used to just like traditional MLB baseball, these will be seven inning games as opposed to nine inning games. And a lot of the rules they follow with the women's baseball World cup rules which are set by the Women's Baseball and Softball Commission I think is what the C stands for at any rate. So some of the, some of the key differences that have been reported they'll have the designated hitter is optional. There are some two way players in, in the league. They can use metal composite or wood bats and there will be no abs, so probably not surprising on that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The venue.

[B]

Would there be a pitch clock? Do we know?

[C]

I am not sure about that. I was kind of looking through the WBSC rule book before we hopped on the call but I wasn't able to to track that information down just yet.

[B]

We will find out in a couple days so remind everyone. I'm sure we covered this last time but to refresh people's memories just who's organizing this or who founded it or who's involved? How is this bankrolled? As far as we know, et cetera.

[C]

The league was founded by Justine Siegel of Baseball for all and Keith, whose last name I am blanking on. I want Stein, I believe. Keith Stein. Yes, that's what I was thinking, but I didn't want to get it wrong. Who has had some. Has a. An ownership stake in a. In a semi pro men's league in Canada and has. Has some background in. In team and league ownership. So they're. They're the ones who founded it. They've been fundraising from a bunch of different sources. From what I can tell, over the past year and a half, they've announced a few different sponsorships with various partners. They just pronounced announced a sponsorship with Horace Mann, which is an insurance company, but like, specifically with a goal of, like, helping get insurance. So, yeah, they've been bringing in different sponsorships to, to try and get funding.

[B]

And is there a relationship? Do we know? I mean, this is coming on the heels of the latest group stage in the Women's Baseball World cup, which will be finalized or played next year. But. But they've been leading up to that. Are there any affiliations or anything with other existing women's leagues, or is it just that there will be presumably a lot of overlap in, in the players, but this is an entirely separate entity,

[C]

as far as I know. It's all separate. They have pretty clearly been working in conjunction with the Women's Baseball World cup and whatnot. So it's that the group stage of that was this past weekend in Rockford, Illinois. So it's convenient that it's not too far for the players to travel to. To get to Springfield for the start of the WPBL season. So it seems like they want to remain mostly independent. They made a conscious decision to not partner with MLB so that they can just be independent and do their own thing. But they did emphasize that they want to have good relationships with these other organizations and be able to work cooperatively with them.

[B]

Right. Unlike ausl. Right. The Athletes Unlimited Softball League, which did have some affiliation or does have some affiliation with mlp, I believe.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And so as. As we look ahead to the season, you know, you covered their draft when they held it. Can you walk us through some of. Well, maybe we can start with sort of some of the general demographics for this. For this league, because as we're noting, there's, you know, even if it doesn't have quite the same primacy at the collegiate level that softball does. There is an active women's baseball scene both here and internationally. So. So who are the women who are making up this this league?

[C]

There are a bunch of international players. Some of the players that I picked out to highlight from each individual team were just playing in the in the World cup group stage. Team Australia sort of came out and made a pretty big statement during that tournament. There are a bunch of the players from that national team are on the WPBL teams. I learned in doing some reading some of the the coverage of the group stage that in Australia they apparently don't have sort of the social constructs that tend to funnel girls into softball rather than letting them continue playing baseball. So baseball for women in Australia has actually been growing pretty well. They don't have quite the one to one infrastructure with boys and men as they they progress. But there is less pressure to to go to softball. If girls want to play baseball, they're allowed to play baseball. So that sort of explains why there is such a strong Australian presence in the wpbl. There are several players from South Korea. There's a player from the Dominican Republic. So yeah, they have been able to pull internationally really well. A bunch of. A bunch of talent from around the world world.

[B]

And there are some prominent players people might know from previous high profile appearances and play in predominantly men's leagues. Monet Davis is back, Kelsey Whitmore, Ayami Sato, etc. So is there anyone else you would highlight there? Both the celebrities for sort of a mainstream fan who might have heard the names and then maybe some accomplished or skilled players who who people might not know if they haven't been following women's baseball closely but might be about to

[C]

discover you hit the main ones. If people have been following Team usa, the women's national team there, there's a bunch of representation from over there. One that's kind of interesting is Valerie Perez. I'm not sure if she'll be with her team in the early going because she's currently a head coach of the firefighters which is a a banana ball team. And so she's got to fulfill her coaching duties. But that's sort of an interesting crossover relationship. Obviously Kelsey Whitmore plays for the Bananas, but they're also pulling some some coaching from from that league. I was sort of looking through the highlights from the the World cup group stage. There is Jua park from South Korea who had 10 RBIs in their group stage games and I believe that was five games. So it was a pretty big chunk There are three players from Team Australia who all had nine RBIs. Leah Cornish, Caitlin Aynan and Elodie Sullivan all had nine RBIs for Team Australia. There's also Maggie Meidlinger for Team USA. She's their closer. She's also a sports architect who designs arenas and stadiums. So that's another fun sort of artifact of a league that's just getting going as you're pulling in players who have very impressive baseball resumes, but they also have impressive professional resumes as well.

[B]

It's funny, we're. We're citing RBI totals on a fangrass podcast. Does either of you know you. You might both have some insight into this, just what stats, if any, might be available for this league or how people who are. Are accustomed to studying sabermetrics and looking at leaderboards might be able to follow this action?

[C]

Yeah, I think Meg knows a little more about this. But yes, I was citing RBI based because of that sort of what was available to me on the website.

[A]

Yeah, my understanding. So we, we have strong interest in, in hosting stats for the league at fangraphs. My understanding from David is that they are still sort of in the process of, of establishing all of their data relationships and so I don't know when readers might be able to look forward to seeing that stuff displayed either with us or with other stat sources they're used to like Baseball Reference, but the appetite is there and it'll be something that we continue to check in on as they get their kind of ducks in a row on that stuff because trying to stand up a whole league as quickly as they have. You know, Kira, you've highlighted this in your coverage and I think people can kind of get a sense of it as we're talking here. It's just a lot of balls in the air simultaneously and so not everything is as buttoned up as folks would be used to for, you know, for Major League Baseball. But I'm confident that they'll get there, especially if there is a lot of interest and excitement around the league's play. Obviously people are going to want to dig in on the stats. So I'm sure we'll be able to get something sorted out sometimes.

[C]

Right. So if my coverage of the league is not as analytical as people are used to, for me in the early going, that that might be why.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So the four teams, and I'm, I'm going to say the city affiliations kind of quote unquote, but the New York Heights, the Boston Hunters, the Los Angeles Queens, the San Francisco Fire Bells. Is it possible to say if there is a favorite, if there is a strongest roster, if there is a most interesting roster, Is there a team whose aesthetics in terms of logo, uniform, name, etc. You most enjoy? I guess, you know, you'll probably be watching all these teams because it's not that many teams and not that many games, but do you have any early inclination towards which might be the best watch or the best team?

[C]

Right. Yeah, that is one of the luxuries of a four team league is folks can spend some time with each of the teams and then decide which one they are sort of drawn to. I do think it's worth it before we get into the rosters to explain where the names came from because they actually were pretty intentional about choosing those. I have maybe like a couple small notes, but overall I think it was a really great idea and a really great way that they sort of chose the names. And it's a little, a little less silly than the way say like minor league team names are chosen. Like they, they didn't put this to a fan vote. They, they did some really good research and tried to pick names that were really meaningful. So the Boston Hunters. That name is inspired by Harriet Hunt, who was one of the first women to practice medicine professionally in the US despite being denied admission to Harvard twice. So basically she studied under a couple of doctors who she met when they were treating her sister and basically learned medicine via that apprenticeship and practiced on her own even though she wasn't allowed to get a formal education. That was in 1835 is when she opened her own practice. And then eventually she was granted an honorary degree from the Female Medical College of Pennsylvania, which is now part of Drexel. So they are choosing to honor her with that name. And she is from the Boston area and then the New York Heights. That name is inspired by Dorothy Height, who was a civil and women's rights advocate. She was born in Virginia in 1929. She grew up outside of Pittsburgh and attended NYU. She had a bachelor's of education and a bachelor's in education and a master's in psychology and then got into civil rights and activism work when she was working at the Harlem ywca. And so her work focused on criminal justice reform and voting access. And she was frequently asked to consult on political issues by folks like Eleanor Roosevelt and Dwight D. Eisenhower and Lyndon B. Johnson. So she was a pretty powerful figure in the civil rights movement. The San Francisco Fire Bell. So that name was inspired by Lily Hitchcock Coit, who is Described as an eccentric socialite, which bios off to a great start already. She was an honorary member of The Knickerbocker Number 5 Fire Company, which apparently started when she was a teenager. She was watching the company try to get to a fire on Telegraph Hill. Apparently it was customary at the time for folks to come out and watch when there was a fire happening and watch the firefighters try to put out the fires. I don't think that would be taken very well these days, but apparently it was not a weird thing. But they were undermanned so she pitched in on the ropes to help them pull the engine up the hill. And then over the years she developed a very close relationship with, with the company and, and apparently she was such a like charismatic figure that when she traveled the world she was like a, a notable figure on with Napoleon iii. And so she, she was just very well connected. So when she died, she left a bunch of money to San Francisco and they used that to build Coit Tower, which is on Telegraph Hill still there. And that's to honor her and San Francisco firefighters. So that's the Fire Bells and then the La Queens. This name was inspired by Lizzie Murphy, who was nicknamed Queen of the Diamond. She's the only woman to play baseball with with a team of major leaguers in a major league ballpark. That game happened on August 4, 1922. She played for a team of all stars. It was the Boston All Stars, a semi pro team of former major leaguers. In an exhibition game against the Red Sox at Fenway park, she became sort of a bat for hire among semi pro teams. And as a result she wore this just like generic gray uniform that just had her name on the front and newspapers would announce the game she was scheduled to appear in. So it seems she was like a pretty decent draw. And some of it was the novelty. But the articles from the era suggest she was a pretty strong infielder and at least could, could hold her own at the plate. So that's where the team names come from. I really liked what they did in making purposeful choices there as far as the rosters. They, they all have something going for them. Like they all have at least two or three players that if you're following women's baseball at all, you've probably heard of. The one that really stood out to me was the La Queens. They have all three of those players for Australia that I already mentioned that had 9 RBIS in the group stage. They have Michelle Roche who pitches for Canada. She pitched 6.1 or 6 and a third sorry, scoreless. And they have Ayami Sato who been already mentioned. They have Monet Davis, they have Meggie Meidlinger, the closer, as well as Ashton Lansdell who was the MVP of the group stage tournament. She hit.846 to set a new tournament record including six stolen bases which also featured a steal of home after she had already stolen second and third. So, so seems like a lot of really exciting players on that roster. So I've got my eye on the Queens but I think there's something to watch on all, all the teams and

[A]

who is going to be responsible for marshaling those resources. Tell us about the the recently named managers of each club.

[C]

Yes, so the managers were officially announced yesterday, but we had, we had reporting on this last week. So for the Boston Hunter it's going to be Keith Folk, who folks may remember from the Red Sox World Series. He was on the mound when they won in 2004. He was a longtime reliever. As far as coaching experience, he was with the Red Sox in player development for a few years as sort of a special assistant type advisor role. So nothing too intense there. But he does also coach in the Red Sox fantasy camps and then he was involved with the Red Sox spring training partnership event that they had and where they were doing some coaching and and different scrimmages during spring training in Fort Myers. So that's the Hunters. And then for the New York Heights, their manager is Rochelle Henley who goes by Rocky. She started a youth baseball program for girls in the Bay Area. I believe it's the largest youth girls baseball program in the country. So she has a ton of coaching experience that way. She played a bunch as well obviously, but has since turned her focuses to coaching and has been boots on the ground trying to get access to girls who want to play baseball and don't want to be funneled over into into softball. For the Firebells, their manager will be Matt Williams who is longtime Giants third baseman. Also has a bunch of coaching experience since retiring from playing. He has been a third base coach for several different teams but folks will probably most notably remember him from two years managing the Nationals. He won manager of the year in 2014 and then after 2015 was let go when the Nats missed the playoffs. He also managed in the KBO for the Kia Tigers for a couple of years, 2020 and 2021. So he's got some managing experience. Middling results, but we'll see what he does with this opportunity. And then for the LA Queens it's going to be Eric Young Sr. He was a bit of a journeyman but had a, had a decently long playing career, was known for stealing bases and being sort of a pesky leadoff hitter. In terms of coaching experience, he's been a base coach in the majors for a bunch of years, focusing on base running and outfield coaching and positioning and, and doesn't have any managing experience, but has played and coached for a bunch of managers. And there's some good quotes from him in the piece that I wrote about, you know, his thoughts on managing. It'll be interesting to see how he does with his first managing experience.

[B]

So three out of the four I guess are kind of the Jimmy Foxx Jimmy Dugan model.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Taking an ex MLB guy who doesn't seem like have any obvious connections to women's baseball in the past other than having daughters I guess in some cases. So maybe that's not surprising. Does that tell you anything about the league? Obviously short season, probably not the best pay in the world, so you may have more limited pool of candidates if you're, if you're looking at men for that reason. Do you read anything into they aren't going with all female coaches, for example. Obviously that's not the case in all other women's leagues either, necessarily. So that's always a topic of conversation. Anyway. What do you make of the pool that they pulled most of the managers from, if anything?

[C]

Yeah, my initial thought was that they did seem to be trying to manufacture a little bit of credibility for the league by pulling in some, some known names. On the other hand, though, I will concede this is a very difficult position to hire for and to attract the best candidates because it is an eight week league. This isn't the type of a position where you know as an MLB like you're going to get a full year salary even though you're coaching for the six months of the season. And so you're looking for people who have the financial flexibility and the scheduling flex ability to be able to take eight weeks, not necessarily worry about what kind of money they're making who don't already have other coaching commitments that are going to overlap with that time window. So yes, it seems like maybe they, they favored, you know, names people would have heard of to get eyes on the league, but they also sort of needed people with enough sort of independent wealth and cachet to be able to, to come in and and work for eight weeks without having to worry about where their paycheck is coming from or worry if it's overlapping with their other commitments that are going to be higher priority.

[B]

Speaking of pay, what do we know about pay for the players, conditions for the players?

[C]

So the last thing that was announced was a $95,000 salary cap for an entire team which when I crunch the numbers at the time worked out to about 6k per player. It's not every player is going to earn precisely that. It'll vary a little bit based on ability and I, you know, whether or not you play the whole time, I do think they have it on like a per game basis. So you know, there'll be some give and take there. But about six count, that was before they added a few more games. So that may have gone up a little bit if they are tailoring it per game. But I don't think we've been able to, to confirm whether that that number went up when they added games.

[A]

Just taking a step back from any individual player or manager or team, how you're thinking about gauging the success, I guess would be a way of putting it of the league generally because, because it takes time to get established as a new going sports league. And so are there metrics you're thinking about? Are there attendance numbers? Is it just the quality of the play on the field looking credible? If at the end of this season you look back and go, ah, that was a successful first sort of season for the, the wpbl, like how are you thinking about sort of gauging that for yourself?

[C]

Yeah, as much as I don't like saying that a player is making $6,000 over eight weeks, that feels gross. There are just certain like realities of, of a brand new league. And to be clear, I do think this is too low even for a new league. Yeah, but like it's easy to want to jump to the position that we see established leagues in now and to try and compare even you know, in recent years when people have been comparing the, the salaries and sort of the playing conditions for WNBA players to the NBA, it's not exactly a fair comparison just because of how new the WNBA is relative to the NBA. And this is, is a brand new first year league. So no league is going to jump in and start out with everything fully locked in and nailed the way that it should be. So I think the main thing that I am going to be looking for is just progression towards those indicators of what tells us that and makes a league feel more legitimate. So they have spoken about some of their goals for the next few years. So I'm basically going to be looking for, are they making progress toward those goals. So for example, they want to play in their home cities next year. So are they able to do that? Are they able to progress from playing in a single location at one stadium that they're all sharing this year to having nice venues that they can play in in their home cities in the following years, in the following couple of seasons? Because they, they had mentioned something when they announced the teams and that it would be in one location. They had hinted at wanting to play barnstorming type games in their home cities this year. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen. So did that push the timeline out for actually playing in home cities? I hope not, but we'll, we'll see what happens there. I know that they obviously have aspirations to be more than a four team league and it is hard to operate as a four team league just and keep it interesting competitively. So are they able to expand to additional teams in coming years in terms of the more short term and what I'm looking for this year I'm interested in to see what the broadcast looks like. We were made aware this morning that the games are going to be broadcast on ESPN select, which is apparently the new name for ESPN plus. So that's good that they have a nice platform for their broadcast. But what do, what do those broadcasts actually look like? The nuts and bolts of that? Is it creating a broadcast that's nice to look at, that sounds nice? Is there good commentary to accompany that? That's something I'm very interested to see this weekend. Obviously quality of competition is going to be a big part of it. Are the games exciting? Do they look and sound like professional baseball from an on the field aesthetic perspective? Do folks seem to take well to some of the differences in the game compared to what they might be used to watching on the field? The men's side. Is it something that, that folks feel take away from the game? And I'm, I'm talking about ballot criticisms because I'm sure that, that the on the field play will be criticized in bad faith by certain corners of the sports world. But if there, if there are people who are coming to it in good faith how, how they feel about and respond to, to some of the differences in gameplay. So those are sort of the main things I'm looking at. I'm sure, sure more things will, will pop up.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I think it's encouraging that it will be broadcast on espn. Doesn't necessarily mean it's a lucrative agreement. Of course. I'm, I'm sure that the league is doing this for exposure in large part. So you, you might say, oh, the players are making only this and this league has this contract with espn. Well, until we find out what the actual numbers or, or revenue is coming from that, I don't know how much we can conclude. But it does seem good at least that people will be able to watch it in a reputable, broadly available place if they're interested. So 37 games streaming on ESPN, including 11 games that will be simulcast on the Scripps Sports Network. And again, encouraging, perhaps also a little anxiety inducing that this press release went out two days before first pitch. And so when you wrote your post about the managers earlier this week, you had to say we don't actually know how and where this will be broadcast. It's pretty important. But, but I guess better late than never. Certainly better late than after the season started. So I guess that just speaks to both the promise and also some of the hesitation here because. Oh, okay, this is, this is reputable, this is credible. This is espn. In also there is an element of maybe seat of the pants planning going on here. Right. So.

[C]

Right. Yeah. Between this announcement coming today, the managers not being announced until like officially announced. Yes, until yesterday. With their full coaching staffs. Yeah. There's a, there's a very last minute feel to all of this that I wish were not there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I did want to ask you about the venue. So as you noted, they're playing Robin Robert stadium in Springfield, Illinois, capacity of about 5,200. And when they announced this late last year, the league tried to sort of spin this. Well, accentuate the positives. Right. That they wanted a neutral venue that was centrally located. Right. You've got teams in New York, Boston, Louisiana, San Francisco. I guess that's technically none of them,

[C]

but yeah, it does split the difference.

[B]

Yeah, it's somewhere in the middle of those cities on opposite coasts. Yes. And you know, they were tried to say, okay, here's, here's the quote. Robin Roberts Stadium not only offers a central strategic location with convenient access to Chicago, O' Hare and St. Louis International airports, but it's a first rate venue. Etc. So convenient again is perhaps stretching half away. Yeah, it's, it's, it's more like two hours to St. Louis and like three and a half to O'. Hare. Right. And then you know, they're selling it also as like nearby Rockford, Illinois. I mean even Rockford is a few hours away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there is a history of women's professional baseball in Springfield And I know that there was a team, the Springfield Sally's that was in the inaugural season of the All American Girls Professional Baseball League. And I understand, understand the virtues of a single location when you have four teams and you're, you're cutting down on travel expenses and you don't have to lease a couple stadiums. And so the logistics I, I get. But also, if there are people who want to go to the games, it's not the easiest. Right. It's not the most accessible setting unless they happen to live nearby.

[C]

Yeah, if you're within driving distance, since it's, it's great. But yeah, it's not exactly a destination that is going to draw people because, you know, if it were in or at least more adjacent to a major city, then you could see people planning a trip like, oh, we'll go visit the city and as part of that we'll go check out a few WPBL games. There's, there's not a lot else around, so people are going to be hoofing it out to Springfield for, for, for just this probably. And so I, the, the opening day games did sell out, I believe. So that's, that's promising, but it is, it is a tough sell for a location.

[A]

Do you get the sense that, you know, we've talked about how this is sort of coming together last minute, but do you get the sense that they are in a position where we know for sure there will be a second season to the endeavor? Because it takes, I think about how the timing and the timeline for the W getting established to the point that it is now and that took a long time and they had the institutional and monetary backing of the NBA. I want to be really excited about this and it's obviously so meaningful to the players who are involved and that'll be something that's true regardless of what form this ends up taking and where they end up playing and how long they end up playing. But do you get the sense that they're in a position to like, be considered a going concern?

[C]

I would be lying if I said I'm not nervous. I am very nervous about it. If you're watching all of like the press releases and, and the different reporting that's going on around the league, you just get the vibe that they are short on cash. And so they, they announced these, these sponsorships and these league partners and these investors that they've secured and it all sounds great, but they just. The way they actually operate feels very low budget and I am worried about whether they will make it to a second season or third season and so on. I don't think it's impossible. Like I'm not, I don't want to be totally doomery about it. There's a lot of it depends when I am like asking questions internally and trying to like mull through how this plays out. A lot of it just depends. But there are some concerning indicators. For example, like one that got a decent amount of publicity that was sort of of publicize as sort of a feelgood story by a lot of media folks was Britney Apgar. She's on the Queens and she was born without a right hand. And she posted a reel on Instagram back in May about how she has a problem. Like she's able to play baseball, but when she, if she hits a pitch that's over 80 miles per hour, the tip of her arm splits open and it is kind of a problem. And so she posted this reel because she was asking for creative ideas on how she could, and these are her words, protect the nub using household materials. Because she didn't have any money to try and like get something, get a more, you know, polished solution. And a lot of folks saw this, the baseball community rallied around it to find a solution. Eventually a league investor step got involved and connected her with the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York and she was able to get fitted for a prosthetic. But it was one of those things where you've got a player that has been drafted, she's on a roster and she's got this medical issue. And in a normal professional league, like that's something that your team's medical staff would help you out with and that's something where the league would be lot a like, oh, we got you, we'll figure this out. And instead it took this very like roundabout journey for her to get help not from the league directly, but from a league's investor.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And so there's just little things like that that have popped up along the way that make you worry that if this first season doesn't go really, really, really well, like will they be able to, to continue it going forward?

[B]

Yeah, that's what, what I'm thinking of because I, I hope it survives and thrives obviously. And it could be a qualified success even if it didn't, I suppose. Like if, if the players enjoy the experience and it finds a, a certain fan base and perhaps inspires a, a generation of, of players or whatever. Right. Like it doesn't have to become the biggest business or even necessarily be, be viable. This particular league in order to have been worth doing. But, but also like, will it be, you know, I think if it's a low budget operation, that's understandable, right. Just given some of the realities and, and you have to build a base in order to build a market and, and thus raise your budgets and everything. But there's some line between sort of like low budget and, and you know, fly by night or shady or just kind of exploitative or something. I mean, again, like, I don't think that it's like the money grubbing owners are going to be making bank from this while the players are, are, you know, scraping by or something necessarily. But like, are their hearts in the right place? You know, do they have the best interests of the players in mind? Are they trying their best to be organized and, and responsible? Right. And kind of do right by everyone, given the constraints? So I, I hope that that's the case at least. So, you know, I don't know whether you've gotten a, a sense of that. Like there's definitely a sense of disorganization, but is it sort of irresponsible, poor planning or is it just, well, this is an inevitable byproduct of trying to launch a league like this.

[C]

I get the sense that it's just a lot of things to try and do all at once and they maybe didn't allow themselves quite enough time and staffing to accomplish all of it. At least in terms of the league people that I have interacted with, they all seem to be like coming at this with very good intentions and it's more that they just don't quite have the manpower to get everything exactly where it needs to be, when it needs to be there. I think you're right to note that, that there, there is a, a risk of if it isn't immediately successful, like will investors want to stick with it? Because it seems like they have a group of investors who are very excited to buy in. But when I wrote my very first piece about this league, I was comparing it to the first women's professional basketball league that launched a in the late 1970s. And there was a similar enthusiasm around the league to start and the quality of play was very good. They were selling out arenas, so on and so forth, like all of the good indicators that you would want from a new league, but that didn't necessarily translate to an immediate profit for the investors. And the investors were very impatient and didn't really want to stick it out for the long term. So when they didn't immediately Turn a profit. That sort of when things, they started, you know, pulling back resources, and things started to go sideways. And that league only lasted three years. And so, on the one hand, this is a very different environment. There is a much larger appetite for women's sports. There are a lot of reasons to be more optimistic about the current state of things now than back then. But there are also a lot of people who see that women's sports are booming and they want to make a quick buck. So I don't know where they're. Where this league's investors fall on that scale if they are prepared to see this through for a few years, even if that means accruing some losses in the early going. Because like any business, it just. Leagues don't tend to make a ton of money right from the jump, even if everything is going exactly according to plan on the field and, you know, in terms of all their other KPIs. But there. There is a chance that even though, you know, the people actually running the league, you know, we've got people who have been involved in women's baseball and trying to grow women's baseball for a long time who obviously want this league to succeed, you can have all of those people in place, but if they are not given the right resources, if they don't have the time and labor resources to actually see it through and make it a good product, there's. There's not too much you can do to overcome that. I did like the point that you made, Ben, though, that, like, sometimes this is just how progress looks, where even if a league isn't able to make a go of it and still be around, you know, decades from now, that can still just be a necessary step in the progress of women's baseball. So like I said, there was that initial league that obviously didn't make a go of it, but now the W is celebrating its 30th anniversary. And. And so sometimes things are just a learning experience and you have to keep going. But if nothing else, I think this league will be able to show that there is an appetite for watching women's baseball. There's an appetite for girls and women who want to play baseball. And so if nothing else, I think it'll be able to keep that progress moving forward.

[B]

Yeah, I hope it's renewed for season two and many more thereafter, but. But I guess it's a question of if it isn't, will it be seen as a stepping stone? Will it be seen as progress? Hey, this is something we can build on. Maybe here are A few missteps and you can correct those. But there's a foundation, there's clearly some interest and enthusiasm. Or will it be seen as a major setback? Just, oh, it tried and failed and thus people will be less willing to try it again. Right. Because there was just such a, a long lull after the AGPPL and there were other experiments and the Colorado Silver Bullets and the Ladies Professional Baseball League, et cetera. But it's been a long time. Right. And so I would hope that regardless of how well this particular league does, that it's at least seen as an encouraging sign as opposed to, oh, you know, like proof of concept for success at the very least. But I'm kind of, you know, trying to keep expectations in check, I suppose. So it's not to be disappointed, but hopefully to be excited and to have those expectations exceeded. So, you know, and I think of, I think I may have invoked the Overwatch League when we talked before as a video game guy, which was an esports league for the Blizzard game Overwatch. And, and it was seen as somewhat innovative at the time when it was launched around 2017, 2018, because they played all their games in a studio in Burbank, basically. But it was supposed to be a geolocated league where you had teams that were affiliated with certain cities even though they didn't play in those cities. And then the long term plan was eventually we will move to those cities and we'll build up fan bases and everything. And it didn't really come to fruition and certainly the pandemic didn't help. Hopefully we won't have to reckon with that again. But you know, even if you find the New York, Boston, L.A. san Francisco, you know, even if that's a tad artificial for now, maybe there will be enough just general enthusiasm for women's sports and women's baseball that you can have a rooting interest just for the league and for the players, even if it's not so much based on the city name.

[C]

Right. And I think no matter what, like one thing that this league will accomplish is fulfilling. You can't even really say it was a dream that these players had because like this, like, wasn't an option for them for so long. So it's fulfilling an impossible dream. Like something that they thought was impossible, like they're going to get to do, like they, no matter what, they will get to say that they were professional baseball players in a professional women's league. And I don't think we should take that for granted. The, the impact of of that in and of itself. But yeah, I think there is just a value like in seeing the enthusiasm for the league. So like I said, I hope this all works out. But if things do wind up going sideways, I think there is still all the evidence of how excited folks were for this league. Like before the the ESPN deal was announced. Like there were people in their Instagram comments every single day being like, we want to watch these games. How do we watch the games? How do we watch the games? So like there were people like banging down their door trying to figure out how to watch the watch women play baseball. And I think that's also a really valuable data point that we have already before anyone has even taken the field.

[B]

Okay, well don't take it for granted. Enjoy it while it lasts. Hopefully it will last for a long time. But if it does, then you can say that you got in on the ground floor and you were watching the inaugural season and the inaugural games. So first pitch, 6pm Eastern, Saturday, August 1st this will be the Queens versus the Heights on ESPN select, formerly Esperanto. ESPN and Kiri will continue to cover this at FanGraphs and I'm sure we will talk to you again to ask about how it's going or how it went.

[C]

Sounds great. Yes, I am excited to watch. I'm determined to enjoy it regardless of what happens. So I hope everyone else goes in with that mindset as well.

[B]

Yes, I will be tuning in on Saturday with my daughter and I think she will be excited to watch. So that that at least, at the very least will be will be fun for us in our household.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

All right. Thanks again to Kyrie, who by the way, sent me a note after we finished recording to say that it looks like the World Baseball Softball Confederation, the WBSC does use a 20 second pitch clock, but only with no runners on base. It's going to be an uphill battle for the wpbl. It's hard to launch a league, but as Jimmy Dugan once said, supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. Things got a bit hard for Roki Sasaki in the sixth inning of the start that followed our recording. A couple of our topics today dovetailed in that start because it was Roki versus Meg's Mariners and Sasaki got the upper hand in a Dodgers win until the wheels kind of came off after five. He ended up going five and a third. Two runs, three walks, seven strikeouts. Solid start, but the big glove did not cure all of his illness. In addition to potentially supporting the wpvl, you can also support Effectively Wild this very podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com effectivelywild and signing up to pledge some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going. Help us stay ad free and get yourself access to some perks as have the following five listeners Zachary Ramlo, George, Jordan, Gronley, Chris Waldman, and Tabuchin. Thanks to all of you, Patreon perks include access to a third unrestricted episode each week, including the upcoming one monthly bonus episodes, membership in our Discord group for patrons only, exclusive live streams, personalized messages, prioritized email answers, shoutouts at the end of episodes, potential podcast appearances, Fangraphs memberships and more. Check out all the [e-mail] effectivelywild if you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email. Send your questions, comments, intro and outro themes to podcastangraphts.com youm can rate, review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube Music and other podcast platforms. You can join our facebook [e-mail] group effectively wild. You can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at R Effectively Wild and you can check the show notes in the podcast posted fan graphs or Patreon or the episode description in your podcast app for links to the stories and stats we've cited today. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance. Effectively Wild will be back with another episode before the end of the week, which means I will talk about talk to you soon. Effectively wild.