50-50 Faith

Summary

---

Elevation with Steven Furtick

Episode: "50-50 Faith"

Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Pastor Steven Furtick
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts

---

Episode Overview:

In this inspiring episode titled “50-50 Faith,” Pastor Steven Furtick explores the tension between uncertainty and confidence when pursuing God’s will. Drawing from the story of Jonathan and his armor bearer in 1 Samuel 14, Furtick illustrates that faith often requires action in the midst of ambiguity—celebrating the courage to move forward on a “maybe.” The central message: True faith is not about waiting for certainty, but trusting God enough to step out even when the outcome isn’t guaranteed.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of 50/50 Faith

• Theme introduction: Life and faith often happen in the space of “maybe”—uncertain, partial, and imperfect moments.
• Scripture Basis: 1 Samuel 14:6 – Jonathan proposes attacking the Philistines with just his armor bearer, declaring, "Perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few." (03:01)
• Faith is not a formula: Furtick states, “The more I try to make my faith into a formula, the less valuable it becomes to me when life challenges all of my presuppositions...” (04:22)
• Ambiguity and acceptance: “When you give up your need for certainty, you can gain a true confidence that is independent of circumstance.” (04:06)

2. Facing Uncertainty and Transition

• Saul vs. Jonathan: King Saul is paralyzed by fear and indecision, while Jonathan demonstrates boldness—even though the plan seems risky and unclear.
• Proof of God’s will: Furtick challenges the notion that ease or universal understanding are indicators of being "in God's will." “Quit thinking that proof positive that you're in the will of God is that it feels good to you.” (11:53)
• Warfare as proof: Experiencing internal or external resistance may be validation of pursuing God's direction. (12:28)

3. The Power of "Perhaps"

• Uncertainty is not a disqualifier: The word "perhaps" is an anchor for those who feel both faith and fear, both hope and hesitation.
• Quote:

  “That word gives me hope for my insecurity... for my impossibilities and my uncertainty.” (13:08)

• Faith and fear coexist: Obeying God can feel like a pendulum between great confidence and deep doubt. (13:40)

4. Courageous Action Versus Over-Analysis

• Jonathan’s “bad” plan: The strategy to reveal themselves to their enemies defies normal logic and strategy.
• A pattern in scripture: Furtick highlights other “dumb” plans that God used—the Red Sea parting, David’s sling, the feeding of the five thousand (all sounded foolish to outsiders). (16:39–17:24)
• Courage over cleverness: “The value is in the courage to act on the impulse...It’s not about thinking of something, everybody can do that. The hard part isn’t thinking of it.” (21:31–23:10)

5. The Breastplate and the Stones: Seeking God’s Will

• Ephod, Urim, Thummim:
  • The ephod (worn by priests) included stones representing the tribes of Israel and two special stones (Urim and Thummim) used for discerning God's will.
  • Sometimes God gives a clear "yes," sometimes "no," and sometimes silence—a "maybe." (25:15–28:16)
• Longing for certainty: “Don’t you wish you had a Urim and a Thummim in your closet?” (28:16)
• Even with tools, faith is required: “Even if God gave me the light to know what to do, a lot of times I wouldn’t have the faith to do it.” (30:15)

6. The Importance of Community and Agreement

• Who you share your vision with matters:
  • Sharing your God-given idea with the wrong people can kill it before it is born.
  • The armor bearer's response—“Do all you have in mind. Go ahead. I am with you heart and soul.” (13:51)—was crucial to Jonathan’s step of faith.
• Faith is relational: “It’s a 50/50 thing. It’s not just my relationship with God. It’s my relationship with others.” (32:09)
• Personal Example: Furtick credits his wife, Holly, with prompting him to start Elevation Church—she was his ‘Urim’ in that moment. (33:06)

7. Faith in Action: Moving on a Maybe

• Faith that moves:
  • “Faith without works is… it takes two. This is a 50/50 proposition. Why would God do for you what He gave you the strength to do for you?” (36:18)
  • “Jonathan said, ‘Perhaps the Lord will…’ It’s 50/50. I know he can. I think he will.” (37:41)
• Experience and wisdom: Experience can build wisdom, but it can also become the enemy of faith if it keeps us from risking again. (38:20)

8. Living in the Maybe Moment

• Message translation: Citing Eugene Peterson’s rendering of 1 Samuel 14:6: “Maybe God will work for us.” (39:59)
• Stepping into vulnerability: “Victory requires vulnerability. In anything… you have to make yourself vulnerable to connect on any meaningful level with the life God has given you.” (19:39)
• Stories of messy maybes:
  • Furtick’s story about his father’s illness and their complex relationship, demonstrating that faith in “maybe” moments often leads to bittersweet or unglamorous outcomes. (43:47–46:38)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The more I try to make my faith into a formula, the less valuable it becomes to me when life challenges all of my presuppositions.” (04:22)

• “Just because I’m in an uncertain place doesn’t mean I don’t have a certain purpose.” (12:14)

• “The value is in the courage to act on the impulse.” (22:08)

• “Even if God gave me the light to know what to do, a lot of times I wouldn’t have the faith to do it.” (30:15)

• “It’s a 50/50 faith. That means it is a divine partnership where Jonathan says, there is something God can do. Then there is something God will not do that only we can do.” (36:15)

• “Maybe the miracle is in the maybe.” (43:02)

• “Faith lives in a place called maybe.” (43:14)

• “If I’m going to tell you about my maybe moments that result in starting a church that reaches the world, I think I owe it to you to tell you about my maybe moments that were messy, too.” (44:15)

---

Key Timestamps

• Scripture Context and Main Theme – 01:59–03:01
• Uncertainty and Confidence in Faith – 04:06–05:00
• Jonathan and Saul’s Contrasts – 09:00–12:00
• The Power of “Perhaps” – 13:08–13:51
• Explaining the Ephod and Stones – 24:08–28:16
• Value of Community and Agreement – 32:09–33:06
• 50/50 Faith: Faith and Action – 36:15–37:41
• “Maybe God” & Stepping Out Anyway – 39:59–41:54
• Personal Story – Furtick’s Father – 43:47–46:38
• Final Encouragement and Prayer – 47:00–End

---

Takeaways for the Listener

• Faith is not about certainty, but courage to move forward, even if it’s only on a “maybe.”
• Community and wise counsel matter: Who you share your journey with shapes the outcome.
• God can use “dumb” plans if we trust Him and act.
• Living a life of faith means accepting both the mess and the miracle that come with “maybe moments”—and knowing God meets us there.

---

Recommended for anyone navigating uncertainty, poised at a crossroads, or wrestling with action versus over-analysis in pursuit of God’s will.

Transcript

[Steven Furtick]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And say $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Scott Hansen]

I'm Scott Hansen, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays hit different when you earn them. We've got you covered with outdoor power equipment from Cobalt and everything you need to weatherproof your deck with Trex decking. Plus with lawn care from Scotts and of course, Pit Boss grills and accessories, you can get a home field advantage all season long. So get to Lowe's, get it done and earn your Sunday Lowe's official Partner of the NFL.

[Narrator for St. Bonaventure Indian Mission]

You heard it before. Many times. Water is life. But do you know that almost half of the homes on the Navajo reservation do not have clean running water? With your support, St. Bonaventure Indian Mission and School is ready to give water to Navajo families. So we invite you to help provide this precious gift of life to those in need. Contrary to many average Americans, Navajo families survive on just 10 gallons of water per day. You can help support St. Bonaventure's water delivery program by going to stbonaventuremission.org hey.

[Steven Furtick]

This is Steven Furtick. I'm the pastor of Elevation Church and this is our podcast. I wanted to thank you for joining us today. Hope this inspires you. Hope it builds your faith. Hope it gives you perspective to see God is moving in your life. Enjoy the message.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

How many are excited about this series we're in? The series is called maybe God.

[Steven Furtick]

The subject is his voice, his will, his ways. How do I know if this opportunity comes from the Lord? I have a scripture for you today that I think will be a great blessing in your life. It's in 1 Samuel, chapter 14, verse number six. The Bible says Jonathan said to his young armor bearer, come, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised men. He's talking trash about the Philistines. He calls them a derogatory name. He's talking about their uncircumcision. Wow, he must be fired up about something. He's a little belligerent he's getting bold now. He can't afford to wait around and wait for something to happen from heaven when God has already given him a certain power on the earth. So he turns to who he has available at this point and says, let's go. It's just me and you. But touch somebody and say, let's go. I want you to do me a favor. If you're the only one on your row who praises God today during this sermon, I want you to go and look at somebody next to you and say, will you go with me?

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Amen.

[Steven Furtick]

He said, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised men. Perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few. In this third installment of maybe God. My subject and my lesson today is called 5050 faith. I want to teach you on this principle that has been so useful in my life as a leader. And it's useful for me as a husband, as a dad, and just as a man. 5050 faith. I believe this principle is going to set you free in some of the areas where indecision has imprisoned you. You've been waiting around and God is going to show you something today by the power and virtue of his word and spirit that only he could show you about. 5050 faith. Praise the Lord. I celebrated my 39th birthday this week. Appreciate your pity. You know that last one with the three in front of it. I'm owning it. I am so owning turning 40. I am so owning these little gray whiskers that are popping up. I'm not dying them or anything like that. Uh huh. I'm going to tell them to get a close up on these gray things on the camera. Just zoom right into the grayest patch you can find in this beer. I'm proud of it. I don't care what my kids say about it. And when they tell me my jokes are cringy and stuff like that. One of my kids told me that the other day. I just asked him a question back. He said, you jokes are so cringey. I just asked him a question. I said, how many people show up to hear you speak since I'm so cringy. Conversational parenting approach. You might want to try it sometime. But one of the things I think keeps happening to me and is really happening to me at this stage of my ministry and life because I have been doing this as a pastor over 13 years, is that I feel so good saying that. It just felt cool. I've been doing this over 13 years. That's a long time to do anything. Amen. I've never been less certain and I've never been more confident all at the same time. It's a strange thing how when you give up your need for certainty, you can gain a true confidence that is independent of circumstance. Can I preach to somebody today, right here in this back left section of Valentine, the passage I read to you is one of my favorites. If they were giving out an Academy Award for Best Old Testament Narrative Scripture, I would want to nominate Jonathan as Best Supporting Actor because he's not as famous as David, but he's a pretty good example for me and it's helped me a lot. This passage has helped me a lot through the years. Every couple years I preach it, when I circle back to it, I see a different dimension of faith. I see a different dimension of the kind of confidence we can have in Christ and in his promises. But I also see all of the uncertainty and self doubt it also entails and that my faith is not a formula and it can never be. The more I try to make it into a formula, the less valuable it becomes to me when life challenges. All of my presuppositions and all of my ideas about what kind of ways God wants to work collapse under the weight of real life, under the weight of real bills, under the weight of real medical reports. I need the kind of faith that is not dependent on my presuppositions. I need the kind of faith that can deal with some ambiguity. I need a faith, like Richard Rohr says, that can be patient with mystery. I need a kind of faith that is not dependent on my plans to prevail. I need the kind of faith that can stand up against the worst thing that happens. I need the kind of faith that can shine when God goes dark, when I don't know, when I can't say it, when I can't see it, when I don't feel like I can make it. I need a faith that can withstand these seasons. Now around the verse I read you is a little episode if you've been tracking with the series. I've used a few different Old Testament passages from Judges and Samuel to try to give us some sort of arc or to give us some kind of context for the way transition creates opportunity for us to trust God. In this particular transition, a negative one for the nation of Israel, King Saul has really lost his way and he has abdicated his leadership. Because of this, the Philistines who would torment the Israelites all the way until the rule of David. Remember Samson began to deliver them. That's last week. You need to go on and watch that message about the parentheses and the pivot and how there's a purpose, even if I have to leave it blank right now, God is going to do something in this empty space in these parentheses. I'm going to put the parentheses there and I'm going to let God fill them because he's too wise to make a mistake in my life. And that message is online. It's on YouTube and Facebook and Elevation App and MySpace, if they still had MySpace. We will put it up there. Roku, all of it. When I was preaching that, it talked about the beginning of deliverance or partial deliverance. The beginning of deliverance happened through the Judges. But now Saul the king was unable to commit himself fully to the ways and the will of the Lord. Rather than to engage in a relationship with the living God, he has begun to manipulate. When he begins to manipulate and treat God as some kind of mechanism to get what he wants, when he wants it, he loses that unique ability we have to hear the voice of God. When you lose the ability to hear the voice of God, you waste energy, you waste resources, you waste worry on situations God didn't even want you to give your attention to. That's why I need to hear his voice. Saul, having lost that ability, is now surrounded by his enemies. So much so that his people he was responsible for leading are hiding in rocks, in caves, in thickets. I just wanted to put the word thickets in there because I don't get to use it on an everyday basis. But we're all hiding in places. Sometimes we find ourselves tucked away in mindsets, in patterns, in isolation, away from people, away from life, away from joy, away from risk, away from opportunity. This was the situation in 1 Samuel 14. Pick up verse 23 13. Now a detachment of Philistines had gone out to the pass at Michmash. It's always helpful to point out that the enemy always attacks you at the passages. He always attacks you at the places of transition, from what you knew to what you don't know, from where you were to where you're going. So when he can set up an ambush at the passage, he can keep you from moving forward in those transitional, pivotal moments of your life. Then one day Jonathan, son of Saul, said to his young armor bearer, come, let's go over to the Philistine outpost on the other side. But he did not tell his father. Be very careful who you talk to about What God is doing inside of you. Be very careful who you communicate with about the impressions God is stirring inside of you. If you talk to the wrong people about the right idea, your idea will die before it has the opportunity to conceive and give birth to what God is doing in your life. How many know I'm right about that? Saul was staying on the outskirts of Gibeah under a pomegranate tree in migrant. With him were about 600 men, among whom was Ahijah, who was wearing an ephod. He was the son of Ichabod. He was the son of Ichabod's brother, Ahitub, son of Phinehas, the son of Eli, the Lord's priest in Shiloh. No one was aware that Jonathan had left. On each side that Jonathan intended to cross to reach the Philistine outpost was a cliff. One was called Bozez and the other Sena. Bozez means slippery. Sena means thorny. Nobody told me it would be easy. God didn't promise me that his will would be convenient. Quit thinking that proof positive that you're in the will of God is that it feels good to you. Quit thinking that proof positive that you're in the will of God is that everybody understands it. Quit thinking that proof positive that you're.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

In the will of God is that.

[Steven Furtick]

It just falls into place.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

No, he had to go through a thorny place, a slippery place, an uncomfortable.

[Steven Furtick]

Place, an uncertain place.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Just because I'm in an uncertain place doesn't mean I don't have a certain purpose.

[Steven Furtick]

I'm going to need somebody to shout.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

On that right there. Touch somebody, say, I'm in his will. One of the proofs that you're in.

[Steven Furtick]

His will is that you are experiencing warfare. It could be in terms of an.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Internal resistance, you feel, or even if.

[Steven Furtick]

Some things are going crazy in your life. On each side was a challenge. On each side was a challenge. One cliff stood to the north toward Michmash, the other to the south toward Geba. And Jonathan said to his young armor bearer, come, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised men. Perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few. God, I love your word. I'm going to take a moment and just talk to him about it.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Thank you for putting that one little.

[Steven Furtick]

Word in your word. Not the one where he said, nothing can hinder the Lord. Not the one where he said, come, let's go over. But that one little word where he said, perhaps because that word gives me hope. It gives me hope for my insecurity.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

It gives me hope for my impossibilities and my uncertainty.

[Steven Furtick]

It gives me hope to know that.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Sometimes, even in the midst of making.

[Steven Furtick]

Progress in my life, even in the midst of obeying the revealed will of.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

God, there are going to be moments where one minute I have great faith and the next moment I'm overcome by great fear.

[Steven Furtick]

Watch the armor bearer, he says back to Jonathan, who had a crazy idea. Do all you have in mind. Go ahead. I am with you heart and soul.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Jonathan said.

[Steven Furtick]

Come on then, since you're talking like that. Come on then, since you want to do it too. Come on then, since you don't think.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I'm crazy for wanting to move toward the enemy even though we're outnumbered.

[Steven Furtick]

Come on then, since you don't have any more brain cells or common sense than I do. Come on then.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Sometimes you need somebody who will help.

[Steven Furtick]

You, even though your plan sounds like.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

A bad plan, to try to find God in it just so you don't.

[Steven Furtick]

Stay stuck and standing still. Come on, then. I like how he talked to them. He's like, come on then. Then the armor bearer is like, go ahead. Then he's like, well, come on then. They're pumping each other up, they're chest bumping each other and they don't have anybody else. Watch this.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

The people who should have had faith.

[Steven Furtick]

Have been overtaken by fear. Now, this is the part of the passage that's going to give me the contrast. As we look at together two different ways we try to figure out God's will.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Everyone has a way.

[Steven Furtick]

You try to figure out what the will of God is. Even if you don't call it trying to figure out what the will of God is. You have a way. You make decisions that you hope will be most advantageous. You have a way. You try to discern wisdom. And you can't always get it from a book, and you can't always get it from a class. You can't always get it. Here's what I've figured out. We're all making it up as we go. This part of my sermon is meant to encourage you. All the people who are writing parenting books about 15 steps to raise a perfect kid, they left out some footnotes. The bottom line is they just had good luck in the gene pool because God can give you a kid that can make you question all of your theories. I love my children.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I'm just saying all of us as.

[Steven Furtick]

Parents are making it up as we go. All of us are trying to figure.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Out with each child and. And they're all different. I know Holly was faithful to me, but sometimes I'm like, how could they all be so different if it was.

[Steven Furtick]

Just the common factor of me and you? I trust her, but sometimes they're so different. I'm like, well, you respond like this.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

And you respond like that.

[Steven Furtick]

Watch Jonathan's plan.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

This is the dumbest idea you can find in the Bible.

[Steven Furtick]

The only one I can think of as dumber is Moses stretching out his stick over the Red Sea.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

That's pretty dumb.

[Steven Furtick]

Or maybe David throwing a rock at a giant who has a sword. That's pretty dumb. Or maybe Jesus commanding the lunch from a little boy in the crowd and trying to feed 15,000 people with it. That's pretty dumb. Or maybe Mary going to Joseph and.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Saying, I'm pregnant, but it wasn't another.

[Steven Furtick]

Man, it was the Holy Spirit. That's pretty dumb.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Or maybe it was a widow going around borrowing jars from her neighbors when.

[Steven Furtick]

She didn't have any oil and thinking something. That's pretty.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Now that I've come to think of it, a lot of the stuff God did in his word looked like a dumb decision to the people while they were doing it.

[Steven Furtick]

Listen how dumb this is. Listen how stupid this strategy is. Somebody say, bad idea. Come on. Then we will cross over toward them.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

And let them see us.

[Steven Furtick]

I thought you were supposed to sneak up on somebody if you wanted to kill them. But whatever.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

If they say to us, now watch this.

[Steven Furtick]

He's making this up. I want you to notice one thing about this passage.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

God gives Jonathan the victory.

[Steven Furtick]

But God doesn't say a single word. The only people who speak in this passage are Jonathan, his assistant, and his enemies. God doesn't say a word. But Jonathan makes up this strategy. He's an innovator. He's like, all right, my dad is under the tree by the threshing floor, and the priest isn't doing anything. So let's go over and show ourselves and expose ourselves to our enemies. If they say, wait there until we come up to you, we will stay where we are and not go up to them. But if they say, come up to us, we will climb up because that will be our sign that the Lord has given them into our hands. Just when it can't get any dumber.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Both of them showed themselves to the Philistine outpost.

[Steven Furtick]

Looks at the Philistines.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

There are two of them and dozens of us. The Hebrews are crawling out of the holes they were hiding in. The men of the outpost shouted to Jonathan and his armor bearer, come up to us and we'll teach you a lesson. So Jonathan said to his armor bearer, climb up after me. The Lord has given them into the hand of Israel. How are you going to speak in past tense about a battle you haven't even fought yet? Because I know some. Something that is greater than what I know with my mind. I know with my faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

[Steven Furtick]

Wait, it gets dumber. Jonathan climbed up using his hands and feet. Do you know how vulnerable you are climbing up something thorny or slippery, using your hands and feet? Quick thing just for you. I love y'. All. Victory requires vulnerability. Victory requires vulnerability in anything. You have to make yourself vulnerable to experience a great relationship. You have to make yourself vulnerable to step into a new dimension in your business. You have to make yourself vulnerable to connect on any meaningful level with the life God has given you. In this position of vulnerability, Jonathan prophesies a great victory. I feel the Holy Spirit. It says that his armor bearer was right behind him, and the Philistines fell before Jonathan and his armor bearer followed and killed behind him. In that first attack, Jonathan and his armor bearer killed some 20 men in an area of about half an acre, all because Jonathan turned to his armor bearer and said, I have an idea. He said it like that, but I'm at the place now where I don't really think the value is in the idea. The value is in the courage to act on the impulse. When I put it like that, you have to realize how many people say things like this every day. I remember talking to somebody about Uber and they said, well, I could have thought of that. Really? You think thinking of something is the key to succeeding at something? Anybody can think of something. I mean, today I was walking out the door and Abby turned me into a dog because of my fuzzy sweater. She said, do you want your belly rubbed? Do you want your belly rubbed? I licked her face and I left and came to church to preach. That's what dogs do. But she can think of stuff. I mean, thinking of it, Holly was telling me, now they have Uber for photography. I really should find out the name of this and see if I could get a sponsorship. This message goes to a lot of people, but they said you can go on and get a photographer anywhere in the world you are. Just like you can get a car from Uber and you can get a photographer anywhere you are if you're off with your family. And you want to get a family picture like that so you don't have to ask some random stranger who apparently has never used a smartphone in their life and doesn't know to tap the screen to make it lighter. You can get a professional to come out and capture the memories. When she said, I was like, why didn't I think of that? Well, there's a lot more to it than thinking of it. People come to me all the time and they'll be like, I heard this thing. There's a sermon in that somewhere. So to that I'm like, where? Just because they could think of it, I read this headline. You should preach about that. You should write a song about that. I'm like, you should shut up until you can write one of your own.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I know you mean well, but the.

[Steven Furtick]

Hard part isn't thinking of it. The hard part isn't thinking of it. This is why, when they give you advice sometimes in marriage, be the first.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

To say you're sorry. It's not the thought that counts. Can I upset conventional wisdom for a moment?

[Steven Furtick]

One thing that was really striking to me in the text was not what Jonathan did, but what the people who.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Should have been leading were doing at the time when Jonathan had to act.

[Steven Furtick]

On something that was partial and imperfect.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

When the Bible says Saul was staying on the outskirts of Gibeah under a.

[Steven Furtick]

Pomegranate tree with 600 men, I always skipped this verse because the names were hard to pronounce.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I was preaching this passage when I.

[Steven Furtick]

Was 17 years old and I didn't know how to pronounce these names. I still don't. But then I figured out you don't know how to pronounce them either.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

So if I just say it with.

[Steven Furtick]

Enough confidence, we'll move on.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

But in skipping it, I missed something.

[Steven Furtick]

That became very important to me about the ephod. It says, the Lord's priest was wearing the ephod under the pomegranate tree. The ephod was more than just an article of clothing. It was an instrument for seeking the will of God. On the ephod, the high priest would wear a breastplate. On the breastplate would be 12 stones with the names of the tribes of Israel, representing their special presence in the presence of God. When he would wear the breastplate into the most holy place to make atonement for the sins of the people so they could be forgiven. Once a year, the instruction was given to the priest about what to make sure he kept close to his heart. It started with Aaron. And in Exodus, chapter 28, if you could give me this text that he.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Will bear the names of the sons of Israel over his heart on the breastplate of decision.

[Steven Furtick]

In the literal Translation, it's the breastplate of judgment. It was what he wore when the.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Judgment of God was conferred on the sacrificial animal that. That took the sins of the people.

[Steven Furtick]

Away from the camp. It was the breastplate of judgment.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

But here it is translated, the breastplate.

[Steven Furtick]

Of decision, as a continual memorial for the Lord. Here's why. Also put Urim and Thummim, which are two special stones that would go not on the breastplate, but behind the breastplate when the priest wore the ephod, which was like a. A kitchen apron, where he would keep the vestments that were appropriate for his duty.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

On that ephod was the breastplate.

[Steven Furtick]

And behind the breastplate was Urim and Thummim.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Whether these were stones or some other.

[Steven Furtick]

Sort of special object, we are dependent on the incomplete records of archaeologists to make known to us. But one thing we know, it was.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

One of the ways God spoke about.

[Steven Furtick]

His will to his people. He spoke through the prophets, He. He spoke through dreams, and he spoke through these stones. I'm going to call them stones because that's the closest thing we can know to what they were. One represented yes and one represented no. That was the meme.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Urim was a little different. It was said to be a stone.

[Steven Furtick]

That would light up. You are to put it behind the.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Breastpiece or in the breastpiece so that they may be over Aaron's heart whenever he enters the presence of the Lord. Thus, Aaron will always bear the means of making decisions. I love that little phrase, the means of making decisions.

[Steven Furtick]

In the presence of the Lord.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Everybody has a means of making decisions. Everyone has a way that they try to figure out, where is this going? Can I trust this person? I like this method a lot. Because all the priests had to do was take out the stones, the thmeme, it stands for perfection or decision.

[Steven Furtick]

Then he would take Urim, which represents light, which always represents revelation, which always represents knowledge.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

When God would speak through these stones.

[Steven Furtick]

You would inquire of him.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

If the answer was affirmative, Urim would light up and you would know God.

[Steven Furtick]

Wants us to do it. Like when David was facing a battle at Ziklag and he had to go back and recover his family and the.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Families of his men, he asked the priest, bring me an ephod, because I need to seek the Lord. If I go into this battle and God doesn't want me to go in this battle.

[Steven Furtick]

If I do this venture, if I.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Go after this thing and God doesn't want me to do this thing, I'll be defeated. But if he says yes, no power in hell can stand against me. Nothing can hinder the Lord from saving, whether by many or by few. So David said, bring me the ephod. Because if God gives me light on this situation, I can fight this battle. If God gives me light on this situation, I can stand the trial, I can stand the test, I can pass it.

[Steven Furtick]

I can do it. If God says yes. But sometimes God would say no, then sometimes the stone would do nothing. What that meant was, God doesn't want to answer this right now. In other words, if I can take you back to middle school, I love you, do you love me? Check yes or no. Sometimes I would put a third box called maybe. Sometimes they would ask God, should we go? Should we stay? Should we do it? Should we not? And the son would do nothing. What do you do with them? Maybe because a lot of times in our life, don't you wish you had a Urim and a Thamim in your closet? Come on. Right next to your belts. I'd rather have a Urim and a Thamim than a Rolex. I mean, iced.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

What a blessing it would be.

[Steven Furtick]

Do you know how many staff members I never would have hired to begin with? Come on, this is a big church. Can I be real with you?

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Do you know how many staff members. If I could have just had that special stone, pull it out, wouldn't that be cool? Can you imagine how many things would you have done differently? And how helpful would it be when you're making decisions if you could just have a stone just to light up and tell you, yes, this is God.

[Steven Furtick]

You know how your kids start hanging out with friends and you're wondering, I don't know about these parents. They seem kind of like. I don't know. I smelled something on their clothes. It smelled like. It might have been weed or maybe it was something else, but I'm not sure. Lord, should I let my kids hang out with these kids? God says yes, and you could get some sleep. Or God, should I take this job? It has more pay, but it's going to mean more hours.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I just think it would be so cool if it would light up and tell me yet. God knows something about me that I don't know about me. Is that even if he gave me the light to know what to do, a lot of times I wouldn't have the faith to do it.

[Steven Furtick]

You're going to make me preach by.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Myself and sit there looking at me.

[Steven Furtick]

Like I'm an entertainer?

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

You know, the truth is that even sometimes when you know what to do, even sometimes when you know this is God, they had these stones. They had these stones. It was behind the breastwork breastplate, and the breastplate was under the pomegranate tree, and the priest was doing nothing with it. They had the means of making decisions to know the will of God, but their fear had put them in a place, and their complacency had put them in a place. Because when you have the instruments but you don't use them, how can God speak to you when you can't find this between Sundays? How can God give you his wisdom? The important thing about it was, Jonathan said, we don't have the ephod. Ahijah has the ephod. We don't have complete clarity on this situation. But what he had that was so.

[Steven Furtick]

Important, he had the right person to turn to and talk about it. I need you to understand the value not only of. Of what God says to you in.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Your life, but about who you say.

[Steven Furtick]

It to after God says it to you. The right people will give you the go ahead.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

The right people will say, you know what? I'm going to help you as you do this. I know the addiction has got you about three different cycles now, and it looks like this one won't be any different. But whether or not you make it, I'm going to be here with you on it. So let's go ahead and do this.

[Steven Furtick]

Dumb thing, this impossible thing, this crazy thing. Then sometimes they have to turn and tell you that ain't God at all. But it's who you say it to. It's who you say it to. It's a 50, 50 thing. It's not just my relationship with God. It's my relationship with others. A lot of us are suffering in silence in our relationship with God because we're living in bitterness with our relationship with others. You can't hear God just like this. I guarantee you. If Jonathan would have had an armor bearer who told him, you know what, man? Let me know how that turns out. I'm praying for you. Sign of the cross. I guarantee you the battle wouldn't have moved on beyond Bethaven that day like it did, even for me. I can say this when people say, how did you know God wanted you to start a church? I read a book. I felt inspired. I got up and preached. It seemed to help People read a book. I got a wife. We were doing our thing. One day she looked at me in the mountains of Tennessee. We were at some youth camp. Carl Carty was leading worship. We came back to the room. People say, how did you know? How did God speak to you? It was time for you to start the church. I wanted to start it when I was 40. The church wouldn't even be here right now if Holly didn't turn to me, not God. She was my Urim. God used her like that. She said, it's time for you to go start this church. I said, when I'm 40. She said, no. Now, look, J.J. if you hear me saying on this message, God is calling you to go. You know how many people I've seen go start coffee shops because they like coffee? And they hear a message like this and abuse it. And they think the whole point of the message is just go do the dumbest thing you can think of that you have a halfway interest in, and then blame the devil when it doesn't work out. Because it was spiritual warfare and attack. And nobody believed in my dream. I'm nothing but Jesus on the cross. And the garden of Gethsemane squeezed like the olives and the oil is coming out. All of that is dumb because I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about who you talk to, about what God is saying to you. Now I get to return the favor. The other day, she turned to me and was like, hey, I'm about to tell you something that I think God is speaking to me. Because it's always a 50, 50 thing. Always, always. So I'm confident, but I'm not certain. She was like, don't laugh at me. I'm like, why would I laugh at you? Tell me what she told me. I said, not only have you got to do that, but you have to do this, this, and this and this and this, because that's awesome. Then I think she was sorry. She told me because she didn't want to do this, this, this and this and this. She just wanted to do that. But we started talking. Do you see how important it is not only what God says to you? It's not only this beam of the cross, but it's this one, too. So I don't have Urim in the meme, but I have Eugene. I needed a rhyme. It was a stretch at best. Irene.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I have people now. This is so key. It's a 50, 50 faith. That means it is a divine partnership where Jonathan says, there is something God can do. Then there is something God will not.

[Steven Furtick]

Do that only we can do.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Faith is 50 50. James proves it clearly. Not only does Jonathan exemplify it, James explains it when he says faith without works is it takes two. This is a 5050 proposition. Why would God do for you what he gave you the strength to do for you? It is a faith. 5050 faith. It is not my faith that saves me, and I'm grateful for that. How many are grateful that your faith in Christ for salvation is not? 50 50?

[Steven Furtick]

Come on.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Because if it was, I would be in hell before Monday at 3:00pm Eastern Standard Time. But because he is my great high priest, y', all, I'm about to get happy on this sermon. Because he took the breastfeeding plate of his own righteousness into the most holy place and shed his blood on the mercy seat. I don't ever have to doubt if he wants to see me or hear me or love me or throw his arms around me. He is my righteousness and I am his child. And he is my great high priest. Come on, shout about it like you have the good sense to know. This thing doesn't depend on me. Foundational faith, even that faith is the.

[Steven Furtick]

Gift of God so that no one can boast.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

But watch this.

[Steven Furtick]

Jonathan said, perhaps the lord will. It's 50 50. I know he can. I think he will. 50, 50. I know God is with me and I think this is where he's leading me. It's 50 50. I'm a 5050 leader. I pulled 70 staff in this Monday and said this is what I think God is doing and I can't put a bow on it. But we're going to find out together. Why? Because God won't reveal truth if I don't move toward it ever. The issue is experience is the friend of wisdom, but it can be the enemy of faith. Do you need me to run that back? Experience is the friend of wisdom. But if you get like Saul in Ahijah and keep the Ephod under the pomegranate tree, Jonathan said, we're going to have to be our own Ephod. We're going to have to put ourselves out there and see if God will. When Eugene Peterson had this idea, he was trying to preach the he's in heaven now, but he was trying to preach the Bible to his church. He realized they weren't really getting it, so he sat down to write a translation of the Bible in a way they could understand. You know that little version on your Bible on your phone? I hope you have the Bible on your phone. I hope you have the Bible up above Facebook on your phone, because you need that one to start your day. You really do. You don't need to know what's going on in Russia every second, but you need to know what's happening, what God intends for your life. If you click on it, there will be one version that says msg. It has nothing to do with the Chinese restaurant. It's the message translation. It was written by a man who just had an idea. What if I write the Bible in the language that's common to the people? He ended up translating the whole Bible that way. The message translation, all because maybe God will use this if you act on it. It's 50. 50. It's 50.

[Narrator for St. Bonaventure Indian Mission]

50.

[Steven Furtick]

I'm not sure. I don't know. Look what he said when he translated 1 Samuel 14:6, my favorite verse about faith in the Old Testament. Look what he said. Jonathan said to his armor bearer, come on now, come on now. Let's do it now. Not when the priest gets his act together, not when the government gets his act together, but now. We have to do this now. Now. Come on now. Let's go across to these uncircumcised pagans. Then he said the title of my series, maybe God will work for us. Maybe faith is being able to move on a maybe. You know what that means? It's 50. 50. It might not work, but God is always working. I'm confident in the second, even when I'm not certain in the first. It takes the time to faith church to say, maybe, maybe if I do this maybe, and maybe it won't, and maybe God will use this thing I think I'm supposed to do to lead to something I was really supposed to do. So even if the first thing fails.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

At least I'm not sitting still in fear. But it takes faith to move on a maybe. When Urim has gone dark and Saul is under a tree and you don't know what to do but to move toward it, God says, move, move toward it. It may work. And even if it doesn't, I will.

[Steven Furtick]

It is the power to move on a maybe to know that God is mystery, but he is revealed, his character is trustworthy.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

I can move on a maybe, Father, I don't want to do this, but nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done. So I'm going to go see about this. Maybe somebody, somebody shout maybe I have a maybe faith. Enough faith to do it and not know the conclusion, but trust God in the process. It's a maybe faith. I'm confident. I'm not certain, but I'm confident.

[Steven Furtick]

You will find yourself many times in.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

Your life in a maybe moment.

[Steven Furtick]

Some of you are there right now.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

It's a maybe moment for you.

[Steven Furtick]

Maybe you are giving yourself to a marriage. You don't know if it can live like Ezekiel in the Valley of Bones. You don't even know if anything is going to happen. But you're prophesying and speaking forth and believing God to send the winds.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

And you're living in the maybe moment.

[Steven Furtick]

Maybe if we start a church. Maybe. Maybe I know who God is and I know nothing can stop him. But it's 50. 50. You want to do it anyway. Maybe the miracle is in the maybe. I wish I could preach this to every discouraged heart today. God lives in a place called maybe Faith. Lives in a place called maybe.

[Co-speaker or Assistant to Steven Furtick]

So if you are in a maybe moment today.

[Steven Furtick]

That'S where God lives. Stand up when you're in that maybe moment. And if you are, you know it. If you're not, you will need this message within the next six weeks. Because life is full of maybe moments. You will feel in that moment the coexistence of uncertainty and confidence. You'll feel like you're making it up as you go. I like that image because Jonathan said, climb up after me. I was thinking about how they made it up as they went, but I had to go. I had to. I had to do it. I had to trust God in a maybe moment. Maybe moments are like the moment where you could look stupid. Maybe moments are the moments where you could be rejected. Most of us aren't facing Philistines and thorny slippery cliffs and geographical obstacles. Most of us are facing things that are on the inside of us that seem insurmountable. God is in the maybe moment of your life when you move forward. Anyway, when I stopped by my dad's house and gave him the letter on Father's Day after we had not spoken in months because I moved him to Charlotte when his health got bad with my mom because he asked me to and I told him, I said, dad, I want to do this for you. You're my dad, I want to take care of you. We didn't know he had ALS yet. We just knew he was very sick and because he was a self employed barber, I didn't know if he was just. Honestly, my dad at that point in his life was so illogical and irrational. I didn't know if it was a good idea or not. But I knew my dad was Asking me for help. And I knew something was wrong when he asked me to do it. I knew something inside of me knew this could turn out really bad. I told my dad, I said, you live three and a half hours away from me right now, and that works pretty good for us. If you come up and we're all up in each other's face, you know, it might not be good. He said, I need you to do this for me. I said, I'll never forget telling him, I don't even think this is a good idea, but I'm going to do it. You asked me to, and I love you, but please, when you come up here, please, when you come live in Charlotte. I knew my mom would be fine. She's great. I was like, you, please don't do any of this crazy stuff. Honest to God, no sooner than I sent the moving company to give him an estimate, he chased the moving company out of the yard with his walking cane. This guy, he was a good dad for a lot of my life. But by this point, his medications as well as his physical condition, he was starting to really lose his mind. But I knew I needed to move him anyway. It didn't make sense at that point. In fact, when he got here, when he finally moved after running off the moving company, after he finally found a moving company that was fit to move him, I went to go see him and check on him in the house that we had found for them. The first thing he did when I walked in the door was complain about the house. When I tell you, I said some Hebrew words and some Greek words, some moncks, corner words, some compound cuss words. It was like, over the next few months, every bad thing I thought was going to happen if I tried to do the right thing started happening. The weird contrast was my ministry was going so great and the church was growing. My dad and the way he treated my mom. Eventually, he left. He went to go live by himself. It culminated in this horrible. Thanks. The worst Thanksgiving ever. Where we went to see him. The only place he would live was in this nursing home. They had him calling bingo in the nursing home. Yeah, it's okay. You can laugh about it. Because it was like, how did we come to this? Like, how can they not even live together? How did we spend all this money and all this time? And he raised me all this time and coached my teams and all this. Then it's going to end like this. When we would try to talk on the phone, he would end up yelling. I would end up yelling, and then I'd end up preaching, and then I'd go back and talk to my dad, and I'd end up yelling, and he would end up yelling. But when I went by his house on Father's Day, I thought, well, maybe if I write down. I took a notebook and I told Holly, can you drive for me for a minute? We were coming back from a family trip, and I said, I need to do something real quick. Can you drive for me? And can we stop by my dad's house? He was living all alone at that time by his own choice. I sat there while Holly drove, and I wrote down a memory for every year I had been alive of him being my dad. I knew we couldn't talk, but I thought, well, maybe if we could just communicate in writing. When we showed up at the house and he opened the door, I kind of threw the list at him. Happy Father's Day. Made a list for you. Maybe this is a dumb idea, but maybe it could open a door for us to have a relationship. It's the maybe moments. If I'm going to tell you about my maybe moments that result in starting a church that reaches the world, I think I owe it to you to tell you about my maybe moments that were messy, too. It's not always so clear. It's not always so perfect. It's not always so brilliant. It's not always so strategic. Life is lived in those maybe moments. I got to sit beside him as he breathed his last breath after three days that hospice had been in. Much later, after a progression where my mom graciously let him back in the house and cared for him until he died, I got to be there reading to him from Charles Spurgeon's sermon, the Peaceful Sleep of the Beloved. After I sang to him the Old Rugged Cross, and I thought he was going to passed quickly, but he stayed around, like, three days, and I ran out of hymns and started having to sing James Taylor and Hootie and the Blowfish. I mean, I was there for all of it in that moment, because of moving forward with a maybe. I believe God sent me with this message today, and I'm overtime. I'm so overtime. It's going to be awful in the parking lot, in the rain. God forgive me and please smile at people on the way out and tell them it's going to be worth it. But please listen to me. Listen to me. You're in a maybe moment. Slippery on one side, thorny on the other. Don't have everybody with you you thought you'd have with you. You just have an armor bearer. Father, I pray today for the faith, for your people to move forward on a maybe in this moment. You are the God of all wisdom. You are the God who sees all, knows all, and can do anything. I thank you Lord that there are miracles emerging even now as I speak, in bodies, in relationships, in careers, in families. God, I thank you that ministry is birthed out of maybe. We thank you God for giving us the Holy Spirit inside of us. We thank you for giving us the finished work of your son to let us know that you are good and you do good and all things work together for the good of them that love you. I speak over every maybe situation. Give your people now by your grace, the kind of faith it takes to move forth in a maybe. For we believe that nothing can hinder you from saving, whether by many or by few. Thank you for joining us. Special thanks to those of you who give generously to this ministry. Because of you that this ministry is possible. You can click the link in the description to Give now or visit elevationchurch.orgpodcast for more information and if you enjoyed the podcast, you can subscribe. You can share it with your friends. You can click the share button, take a screenshot and share it on your social stories and tag us evationchurch. Thanks again for listening. God bless you.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Avis Rental Car Advertiser]

There's a million things to stress about when flying overweight luggage, TSA lines delays, overpriced airport lunches. Your rental car shouldn't be one of them with Avis first, your rental comes with a personal concierge who meets you at arrivals, hands you the keys to a premium car and refills it for you at market price when you're done. You've rented before, but trust me when I say you've never rented quite like this. This welcome to Avis first. Visit Avis.com to learn more.

[Narrator for St. Bonaventure Indian Mission]

Toa Ina we all know that water is life. An average American household consumes over 300 gallons daily, 40% of Navajo families residing on a reservation the size of West Virginia struggle to survive on less than 10 gallons of water per day yearly. Saint Bonaventure Indian Mission and School delivers over 1.5 million gallons of clean water to these families. You can help support St. Bonaventure's water delivery program by going to St. Bonaventuremission.org.

[Steven Furtick]

This is an I Heart podcast.